|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: The burden of preaching
|
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
|
Posted
Hello ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
One of my favourite places is the Mysterious Worshipper page; fascinating stuff.
I do like it when the preacher gets a good mark; though just recently I've read a couple of reports where the preacher might just as well not have bothered s/he was so poor.
Oh I would hate for someone to report me like this - and herein lies my question to all those who preach:
How much of a burden is it to you?
A burden to prepare.
A burden to actually stand and deliver.
A burden when you worry about what 'they' think of you.
A burden when you worry what 'they' think of your sermon's content.
A burden when you worry whether you are being helpful to your congregation.
A burden when you ask, 'is this what God wants of me?'
Do really bad preachers not know/care that they are not very good? - at least on the occasion they were observed.
Are they bad but still 'perform' because they know it has to be done?
Are they fantastic at other pastoral duties but this is their one Achilles' heel?
What can we do?
How can we be helped?
[ 09. August 2013, 09:28: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
Not a burden - but then i don't do it every week.
I find the preparation a joy - keeps my brain alive. i usually start a month in advance because ideas come to me after I've started - a bit like reading all the questions on an exam paper before you start - one's subconscious goes to work.
I enjoy 'delivery.'
I think that bad preachers fall into 3 categories:
1) Those who know they are bad but have become jaded and don't care
2) Those who don't realise it and we are too timid to confront them, even if only by the subtle hint of giving them a homiletics book for Christmas.
3) Those who know they are bad and despair but feel trapped.
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
|
Posted
I imagine it depends on what you might consider to be a good sermon. For some its about length, for others, shortness. For some it's about the amount of exegesis, for others it's about the application. For some it's about being entertained and the quality of the jokes, for others it's a serious thing. For some it's about having all the loose ends tied up in a self contained sermon, for others it's about leaving questions hanging. For some it's about being affirmed in what they believe, for others it's about being challenged or looking at things from a different perspective. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture. It is the impossible task.
--------------------
'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
|
Posted
Preaching is the thing that takes up most of my week (or rather preparing to preach - I don't go on thatlong...), so I guess from that point of view it is a "burden" and sometimes it feels like that and sometimes it doesn't.
I think the most burdensome part of it for me is not the exegesis, the studying of the biblical text(s) - that's the part I could spend literally all week doing! For me, the hard part is actually taking that and turning it into sermon; ie taking it from just thoughts and discoveries about the text and relating it to the lives of the congregation and the life of our church as a whole - connecting it with us. That's the difficult part I think: bringing the life of the text (if you see what I mean) and our lives together and hoping God is speaking through that. I'm normally fairly convinced just before the service starts that my sermon is the least biblical, most heretical, most boring sermon that's ever been preached - by God's grace, I hope some of them aren't!
As for delivering it (feel a bit hypocritical about this given what I'm going to write below), but I've struggled with this given I'm kind of a shy person. I've learnt to overcome that and it feels more natural now, but it's still a big deal at times. So, yeah, that's kind of a burden...
In terms of bad preaching, I don't like cliches or things that have already been said about a text - give me something beyond the obvious and banal. I don't like preachers who make themselves sound better than the congregation; don't tell loads of stories about wonderful things you did, 'cos you'll make us feel inadequate. Oh, and don't jump about loads of different Bible passages: concentrate on the one, that's more than enough to be going along with.
But most of all, I think it's poorly-delivered sermons that bug me. Where the preacher just sounds like they're reading without any engagement from them with what they're saying or with us, the congregation. It especially bugs me when a preacher's coming to the line they want us to remember, the "punchline" of the sermon and, to make sure they get it right, their eyes go down and their voice goes all "newsreader-y". Memorise it or write it somewhere big so you're engaging us with your point - if you want us to remember this make sure we do! Preaching is primarily an oral event, you've only got a sermon when you preach it: so make sure you focus on that, otherwise you're going to lose the congregation.
--------------------
A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
How much of a burden is it to you?
A burden to prepare.
With a full time career and shared family responsibilites it can be a heavy burden. I enjoy the studying aspect but it is time consuming if done right.
quote:
A burden to actually stand and deliver.
Mentally it can be exhausting.
quote:
A burden when you worry about what 'they' think of you..
Somewhat. I know that when it comes to preaching I am not all that talented. Our members seem to understand and appreciate my efforts. I think they give me "credit" if I have an off day. It is the visitors that I worry about the most since many aren't likely to give a second chance. We had one couple that visited for a couple of months before making a decision to stay. It was encouraging that someone was willing to not make a snap decision based upon one Sunday.
quote:
A burden when you worry what 'they' think of your sermon's content..
Yes. I learned a long time ago about the various filters in communicating and I am concerned about how much of what is in my head is actually heard and understood in the way that I wish it to be understood.
quote:
A burden when you worry whether you are being helpful to your congregation..
Yes. I wonder about this quite a bit. I have even asked for feedback concerning topics. I have received some positive feedback but nobody has showed initiative in asking for certain topics to be addressed.
quote:
A burden when you ask, 'is this what God wants of me?'.
Not what but how long. I am doing this until we are able to afford a full-time, dedicated minister. Optimistically that could take a few years. I am very worried about being burned out.
quote:
Do really bad preachers not know/care that they are not very good? - at least on the occasion they were observed.
Are they bad but still 'perform' because they know it has to be done?
Are they fantastic at other pastoral duties but this is their one Achilles' heel?
Only speaking of myself I am very much aware of my short-comings and try to minimize them. I still 'perform' becuase it has to be done. Other duties are shared with the elders, deacons and other members so it isn't if I shine in other areas as compensation for any short-coming in the pulpit or lectern.
quote:
What can we do?
How can we be helped?
Prayer, encouragement, constructive feedback and patience works for me.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eudoxia
Apprentice
# 17251
|
Posted
As my DDO thought it would be an excellent idea for me to dip a toe into the world of preaching before going off to a theological college (where it won’t be just the toe anymore), I have had no choice but to inflict myself on our long-suffering congregation twice over the course of this summer.
In other words, I cannot claim to have extensive experience of preaching (delivered my first sermon only about a month ago!), but the memories are so fresh that I thought I would chip in.
For me, it was a joy to prepare the sermon, but the “burden” you are referring to didn’t take long to arrive. As I was having rehearsal after rehearsal, the doubts began to creep in. It suddenly hit me that I was baring my soul and essentially placing myself in a rather vulnerable position, with no guarantee whatsoever that anyone would appreciate my creation. Suddenly, I felt almost naked.
Basically, what I discovered even before I came up to the lectern to preach my first sermon was that I did, in fact, care about the reception my sermon would be given. In the back of my mind, I knew that most people would be sympathetic listeners – I am still an apprentice, after all – but it did little to assuage my fears. I suppose you could say I wanted to be liked. In any case, I was worried that if anything went wrong, I would be written off as a poor preacher.
Despite my worries everything turned out well in the end and I have to say I enjoyed every moment of it. However, the experience has provided me with some serious food for thought. In order for me to survive as a preacher, I will have to grow a thick skin – and do that as soon as possible.
I suspect that it might have something to do with our performance-driven culture. Many pastors/priests/preachers feel, or are made to feel, that their worth is somehow dependent on how well they perform in the pulpit (or in any other area of their responsibility for that matter). On the other hand, as a layperson, I certainly have little desire to endure low-grade sermons time and again just to make the preacher feel all warm and fuzzy inside. There has to be a balance somewhere.
Posts: 5 | Registered: Aug 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
|
Posted
For the last 16 years or so, I've preached at least 2, often 3 times a week. Preparation and delivery have their challenges.
Expectations on both sides can be high or low. You are, as the preacher, in some eyes, only as good as your last sermon (or as bad). You can be too long, too short, too biblical, not biblical enough. You are certainly - and possibly uniquely - in a position where your engagement is public and unlike politicians listeners have immediate and public opportunities to praise or to condemn to your face.
The greatest burden IMHO is the fact that I am endeavouring to do justice with and to a sacred text, in a sacred exercise, to the people God loves. I have to pray, work and think hard, and express myself in a way that is as clear as possible in the most engaging way as possible, to the greatest number of listeners as possible.
In short, a preacher doesn't get it "right" all the time. Forget about pleasing people - if you want to do that, you won't be preaching, simply stroking the consumer. On the other hand, don't do out of your way to offend out of some gratuitous personal hobby horse: you'll offend for the wrong reasons - let the gospel itself be the offence to pain, injustice, marginalisation, discrimination, hatred and indifference.
let the word and the Word dwell in you richly. The burden is just how we get to that point.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
|
Posted
Preaching certainly is a unique calling. It's God's chosen method for spreading the word and it's unlike any other public speaking situation because the subject matter is indeed sacred and of divine origin.
Woe to me if I do not preach the Gospel, but also, who is equal to this task?
Thanks for the encouraging comments so far. There is indeed a 'fellowship' among preachers.
Maybe we should ask the Mystery Worshippers to be a little more understanding about the preachers they revue - bearing in mind that mostly they are indeed very supportive and appreciative.
Having said that, it might be wise for churches to have a system of objective appraisal for their preachers so that people outside the congregation can hear occasionally what is being said, and how well.
Right! Back to preparing tomorrow evening's service
[ 10. August 2013, 07:36: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eudoxia:
it was a joy to prepare the sermon, but the “burden” you are referring to didn’t take long to arrive. As I was having rehearsal after rehearsal, the doubts began to creep in. It suddenly hit me that I was baring my soul and essentially placing myself in a rather vulnerable position, with no guarantee whatsoever that anyone would appreciate my creation. Suddenly, I felt almost naked.
I sometimes have doubts at the last minute - it's not the right audience, not the right tone... when it's too late to start again on a different sermon.
Nearly every timer that happens, someone comes up to me and says that I spoke exactly the right word for them in their situation.
So doubt is the handmaiden of faith.
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sergius-Melli
Shipmate
# 17462
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Preaching certainly is a unique calling. It's God's chosen method for spreading the word
And there was me thinking that actually living a life of service to others was the chosen method for spreading the Gospel...
I might be mistaken though...
I find most sermons either lacking in robustness, disagreeable to Anglican (ok Anglo-Catholic) theology, and too long most of the time (if you can't get to your point and explain it properly in 5 minutes (if people would stop repeating the entire reading again then it would probably help with this!) IMO you're not up to the job of preaching).
Posts: 722 | From: Sneaking across Welsh hill and dale with a thurible in hand | Registered: Dec 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sergius-Melli:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Preaching certainly is a unique calling. It's God's chosen method for spreading the word
And there was me thinking that actually living a life of service to others was the chosen method for spreading the Gospel...
I might be mistaken though...
All I can do is quote Scripture:
quote:
Romans 10:11-15
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)
11 The scripture says, ‘No one who believes in him will be put to shame.’ 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and is generous to all who call on him. 13 For, ‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
14 But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? 15 And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!’
--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
|
Posted
In my preaching days I found that I would spend about an hour of study and prep for each minute I preached. I really enjoyed preaching. Since much of my early ministry was in a program which had a fair mix of non traditional members, I learned a few techniques to keep the sermon interesting: using illustrative techniques; jokes; varying voice asking questions and seeking answers. I found I needed to watch the reactions of the people too. If I saw heads nodding, even some "amens" and "preach it" I was hitting the mark. If I heard "help him, jesus" (very rarely) I knew I was in trouble.
The congregation that I am a member of now is also a very vocal congregation. We laugh at jokes, respond to questions, and will share ideas. Clapping is not unheard of. Not so much into the amens, or the preach its, but fairly loose for a congregation,
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eudoxia
Apprentice
# 17251
|
Posted
Looking back on the many Sundays I have spent in church, I can't say that I remember too many sermons. Off the top of my head, I can recall at best a few particularly brilliant messages that have stayed with me ever since I first heard them. The rest, including many objectively very good sermons, have been consigned to oblivion. Another burden to carry, I suppose...
Posts: 5 | Registered: Aug 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
A.Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 15044
|
Posted
I’ve found this to be a very interesting thread because I’ve just started preaching myself. I’ve been going to a new (to me) church on and off for a year or so, and mentioned to the minister earlier this year that I’d like to do a trial sermon to test if this was a gift that I could offer to the church. (I had preached as a one-off at a previous church many many years ago, and the assistant minister commented that she hoped that I would discern a gift for preaching, but over the years I had – for various reasons – done nothing more.)
So he offered me the chance to preach at their evening service. (It’s a small but loyal group of people.) As a Baptist church it has a tradition of lay preaching without having a great deal of prior training or authorising, but as moderately conservative evangelical, basically biblical teaching is what is expected. (Yes, I know hermeneutics varies on many subjects ![[Biased]](wink.gif) .) The lay preaching tradition is one which appeals to me, as I have never felt any calling to an ordained ministry, which is probably the mainstream route to preaching.
So the questions asked by Mudfrog in the OP were all relevant to my preparation and thoughts – what will people think of me, what will people think of the subject content, will what I am saying have a helpful effect on those listening, and most of all, is this what God wants of me? But as I was only just starting, this was accompanied by apprehensive excitement rather than feeling a burden.
Maybe as I do more in the future* I might start to feel more burdened, but there are a number of lay preachers available in the church, so I can take on as much as I feel able to. I agree with everything Stejjie has posted above, particularly about finding the process of getting to grips with the text not a burden at all. And having listened to hundreds of sermons over the years I know very well what I would like to hear myself.
But does everyone in a congregation feel the same as me? Not likely, according to fletcher christian’s wise words on the impossibility of pleasing everyone all the time. Exclamation Mark’s post had some very good points as well, that I will take note of. Does Gramps49’s observation of spending an hour’s preparation for each minute of preaching ring true with other people? It probably matched my inexperienced labours – does it speed up with experience? And at the risk of name-checking too many previous posters, hello Eudoxia, you and me both!
Angus
*My ‘trial sermon’ was delivered last Sunday. (Phew!) Hence the topicality of this thread IME. Afterwards I received encouraging and appreciative comments from several people, including the minister, who also gave some considerate and helpful suggestions for improvement. But basically they’re very happy to let me continue. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) ......... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Posts: 434 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
You've ate many meals and been nourished without remembering the menus.
Good grammar is also an ingredient of good preaching! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
|
Posted
While it is true I can't remember many of the sermons I have heard, I do remember a number of the stories pastors have told as illustrations in their sermons, some of them going as far back as fifty years.
I think Jesus was on to something with his use of parables.
That is why I liked to use modern day parables in my sermons too. They stick with people the longest, in my experience.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
|
Posted
Exclamation Mark’s post had some very good points as well, that I will take note of.
Does Gramps49’s observation of spending an hour’s preparation for each minute of preaching ring true with other people? It probably matched my inexperienced labours – does it speed up with experience? Angus[/QB][/QUOTE]
Congratulations! You've taken the first step and enjoyed it and have been able to bring something to other people in the process.
Thanks for the acknowledgment too - perhaps being a fellow Baptist (Minister in my case) helps? As does having helped to guide a few budding preachers over the last 15 years or so.
IME I don't spend quite as much time as I did on sermon preparation as I once did. When I did preach 3 times each week for 40 weeks a year (plus visiting preaches), I spent most mornings preparing. Nowadays most sermons will end up on powerpoint on screen in church and on the website, I actually write in powerpoint as opposed to full or partial scripts. That cuts down a bit of the writing time: other friends use mind maps (one page) very effectively to prepare.
We usually preach series of sermons, so some of research is done in week one (textual background, context etc.) so that also cuts down the time a little.
I generally speak for 25 - 30 minutes in a variety of styles (narrative, story, expository etc.) and I probably spend on average 10 hours per message. That doesn't include the times I think about the text and pray about it throughout the week: adjustments are being made now for tonight's and the ppt slides are only the framework on which the message hangs. Feel free to PM me if you'd like an example and a link to the website of the New Jerusalem
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
|
Posted
We went through a long string of interim pastors with different styles, and certainly the most well-received were those who were storytellers. Humor tends to be well-received, but few of our interims worked humor in, and some of them still received great accolades without it.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
I am a lay preacher and do so maybe 6 times a year. Thus I have the luxury of "incubating" the text for several weeks before really settling down to write. And so I have nothing but admiration for those of you who preach faithfully, week after week. I'm sure, like with all skills, one learns how to prepare a sermon in a much shorter time frame, but still, I am in awe of you all. Thank you for your ministry!
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eudoxia:
For me, it was a joy to prepare the sermon, but the “burden” you are referring to didn’t take long to arrive. As I was having rehearsal after rehearsal, the doubts began to creep in. It suddenly hit me that I was baring my soul and essentially placing myself in a rather vulnerable position, with no guarantee whatsoever that anyone would appreciate my creation. Suddenly, I felt almost naked.
Oh boy,yes. A fellow preacher once said to me, "It's the feeling of being a fraud which is so difficult to get past." Who on earth am I, to be telling other folk how to hear the word of God? I'm not better than them!!
I've been preaching now for 12 years and I no longer care so much about my performance. I don't mean that I don't care about studious preparation! - I take that VERY seriously. If I don't do the necessary work, I can hardly expect the Holy Spirit to bless my laziness. I also read various sources about how to improve my preaching, always striving for excellence. Never wanting to become stale. Learning to adapt my sermon/talk for different contexts and congregations when appropriate. (I tend to favour a narrative style of sermon, but am mindful of the different personality types in a church.)
And accepting that in the end I am also only human. The Lord stirred up in me the gift to preach. The gifting keeps me humble. It should, because I am no better than anyone else. Handling the Word of God is a huge and solemn responsibility. Excellent counsel given to me during my Reader training: "You can't preach what you don't live." ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
God bless you on your journey.
--------------------
"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
|
Posted
I haven't posted yet because I wanted to cogitate before I responded. Burden is certainly not a word I would typically use to describe preach. I love it and I see the call to be a preacher as integral to my vocation. Preaching has become a profound spiritual exercise for me. One of our preaching professors said, "I don't do devotions; I prepare homilies." Now, I do both, but I certainly find the latter very prayerful.
But, there are a couple of ways in which the 'burden' tag fits. Firstly, it doesn't happen on your schedule. Last year was my first of preaching at least weekly (during the semesters I average one and a half times per week) and having to be 'on' whenever someone else had scheduled me did get draining. It was very different when I was up around once a month and had time to preserve some energy before each time I was up and could give my passion for the gospel full expression. I am a somewhat private person. I've always liked public speaking, but preaching is different. It can't fail to be personal even if it's not at all autobiographical, because we are talking about the Love we orient our lives around. Doing that publicly on someone else's schedule is tiring. I had to develop a somewhat more measured preaching style, convert a sprinter's style into a marathon-runner's, but sometimes even that felt too much.
The other way preaching can be a burden is that any charge that comes from your own mouth rings even louder in your ears. It is no surprise that only few should be teachers. The first time I preached a large public service, one line in my homily was to point behind me to the crucifix and say "our love must look like this." I couldn't get to sleep that night, partly because I was still on that preaching high, but partly because I was suddenly challenged: if I had just tried to call that out of people, I am doubly charged to live it myself. To accept to call be a follower of our Crucified Lord, that's a burden, even if it is ultimately a delight. For that call to come from your lips should afflict.
--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
WearyPilgrim
Shipmate
# 14593
|
Posted
I'm a fairly good writer (I tell people that the only reason I can preach well is because I write well, which is at least half the truth). Most of the time I find that writing the sermon is not burdensome; the burdensome part --- sometimes --- is having to deal with the Scripture lesson(s) at hand. I usually use the Revised Common Lectionary which, of course, is a great homiletical discipline. It forces me to deal with verses and passages that I might not otherwise choose to deal with. During Ordinary Time, it also forces me to find a theme, or themes, common to the lections --- something not always easy to ferret out. I found that to be true this past Sunday. I shared my consternation with my best friend, who is a mainline seminary graduate but not a pastor; he provided some suggestions that gave me a kick start, and I wound up preaching what I think was one of the best sermons I've done in quite some time.
The principal burdens of preaching are, I think, the questions of:
--- What word from God does this specific congregation need to hear? What are their felt needs?
--- What is the invitation, or challenge, of Christ that I need to share with them?
--- Here is this passage (or verse), laid out before me; what am I going to do with it?
I find that if I can key in to all those, and unlock the richness of the gospel, the end result can be joyful all around. God's grace somehow shows up. (No surprise there!)
Posts: 383 | From: Sedgwick, Maine USA | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WearyPilgrim:
...find a theme, or themes, common to the lections...
This is a canard. I blame it on ignorant homiletics professors.
There is no need to touch on each lection—like a busy little bee, anxious not to miss a single flower. This obsessive approach usually leads the preacher to skim the surface of each reading, offering nothing of substance to the congregation.
Dig into one of the lections. Then—if at all, and only after a thorough exegesis—begin to explore if there is a helpful connection with another lection.
If you find yourself connecting more than two lections, then you can be sure you have arrived at the point where you need to kill your darlings.
There is no theme in the OT historical track of Revised Common Lectionary.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
AngloCatholicGirl
Shipmate
# 16435
|
Posted
For me the burden of preaching is the worry that I am called to speak on the word of God and I need to take care that I listen to what God is saying and I am not just saying what I want to say.
I pray a lot before I start and I find it helpful to get in early before the service, get on my knees and preach my sermon to God - occasionally this has meant I've changed part of the sermon at the last minute, but I feel it is worth it, to have that time to try and hear God's voice before I preach to others.
--------------------
Love is the wisdom of the fool and the folly of the wise -Samuel Johnson
Posts: 75 | From: Now from across the pond | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by WearyPilgrim:
...find a theme, or themes, common to the lections...
This is a canard. I blame it on ignorant homiletics professors.
There is no need to touch on each lection—like a busy little bee, anxious not to miss a single flower. This obsessive approach usually leads the preacher to skim the surface of each reading, offering nothing of substance to the congregation.
Dig into one of the lections. Then—if at all, and only after a thorough exegesis—begin to explore if there is a helpful connection with another lection.
If you find yourself connecting more than two lections, then you can be sure you have arrived at the point where you need to kill your darlings.
There is no theme in the OT historical track of Revised Common Lectionary.
absolutely agree
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
The other way preaching can be a burden is that any charge that comes from your own mouth rings even louder in your ears. It is no surprise that only few should be teachers. The first time I preached a large public service, one line in my homily was to point behind me to the crucifix and say "our love must look like this." I couldn't get to sleep that night, partly because I was still on that preaching high, but partly because I was suddenly challenged: if I had just tried to call that out of people, I am doubly charged to live it myself. To accept to call be a follower of our Crucified Lord, that's a burden, even if it is ultimately a delight. For that call to come from your lips should afflict.
This. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Some wonderful and very helpful posts in this thread ... thank you, all.
--------------------
"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
There is no theme in the OT historical track of Revised Common Lectionary.
I've never heard the phrase "OT historical track" before. Are you meaning the track that had Isaiah last Sunday as the OT, or the track that had Genesis? I'm just trying to keep up on the latest terminology, since the powers that be seem to keep changing it.
[Olaf grumbles to self yet again that TEC really bungled the adoption of the RCL.]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
PD
Shipmate
# 12436
|
Posted
Preaching was a bit of a duty, rather than a joy until I finally had the courage to ditch the method I learned at seminary, and go with my instincts. Ditching the written M/S allowed me to develop a freer style, and be more engaged with the congregation. The trouble with it is that I tend to range far and wide when persuing my topic for the day. However, it takes a lot more preparation than merely reading an essay to the congregation.
However, preaching to the same parish week-in; week-out is an interesting discipline, and they eventually get to know some of your quirks. However, I was really put in my place when the second lesson - "Here begins the twenty-sixth verse of the eighth chapter of the Epistle of St Paul to the Romans" and a voice in back stated flatly, "Father'll be on about Predestination this morning." The really annoying thing was that the culprit was right. It is an uncommon topic for me, but not one I shy away from. However, to get called in advance was a bit humbling.
PD
[ 13. August 2013, 20:30: Message edited by: PD ]
--------------------
Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
There is no theme in the OT historical track of Revised Common Lectionary.
I've never heard the phrase "OT historical track" before. Are you meaning the track that had Isaiah last Sunday as the OT, or the track that had Genesis? I'm just trying to keep up on the latest terminology, since the powers that be seem to keep changing it.
[Olaf grumbles to self yet again that TEC really bungled the adoption of the RCL.]
No, Olaf, this is not you. This is me not being arsed to remember what the "semi-continuous" track was called (cf. the "thematic" track). I'm still holding resentment against Rome for bungling the whole ecumenical project.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
|
Posted
Dan Carter is a hero of mine. He doesn't preach; he plays rugby. He works hard, trains hard, delivers hard. It's what he's selected, appointed, called to do. He brings a life time (31 years in his case) of experience to it. At the moment he is having three weeks off because he's hurt himself. That happens.
I hope I do the same with preaching. Occasionally I have an off day. Inevitably in any faith community I will have someone who prefers sermons full of jokes or dry exegesis or two minutes long. That's not me. But I do my friggin' best, because that's what God has called me to do (alongside presiding!) and will continue to do so until I have to stop.
--------------------
shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
WearyPilgrim
Shipmate
# 14593
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by WearyPilgrim:
...find a theme, or themes, common to the lections...
This is a canard. I blame it on ignorant homiletics professors.
There is no need to touch on each lection—like a busy little bee, anxious not to miss a single flower. This obsessive approach usually leads the preacher to skim the surface of each reading, offering nothing of substance to the congregation.
Dig into one of the lections. Then—if at all, and only after a thorough exegesis—begin to explore if there is a helpful connection with another lection.
If you find yourself connecting more than two lections, then you can be sure you have arrived at the point where you need to kill your darlings.
There is no theme in the OT historical track of Revised Common Lectionary.
absolutely agree
OK . . . Well, then, if there is no thematic connection between the lections, then tell me: What exactly is the point in reading them all? This seems to me to be precisely the thing about which the early New England Puritans raised an objection --- the reading of the Scriptures in worship for no stated purpose other than to read them, without comment. They called it "dumb reading." Yes, yes, I know . . . Catholics, Anglicans, and Lutherans are quick to point out that they read far more Scripture at Sunday worship than most fundamentalist or evangelical churches, but if the sermon is intended to be the means by which the Holy Spirit brings God's Word "home," so to speak, then why read three lessons when you're going to focus on only one?
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
[ 15. August 2013, 13:00: Message edited by: WearyPilgrim ]
Posts: 383 | From: Sedgwick, Maine USA | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WearyPilgrim:
... if the sermon is intended to be the means by which the Holy Spirit brings God's Word "home," so to speak, then why read three lessons when you're going to focus on only one?
Or why feel that you have to follow the Lectionary at all? Yes, I know it is easy for a Preacher who doesn't to get hung up on their own little hobby-horses, or to use the sermon to "get at people". And I also understand the discipline which the Lectionary imposes (though it also means quite a lot of Scriptures never get cited).
On the other hand, I've just completed a series on the Ten Commandments (15 sermons, albeit not every week due to Parade and other special services, including an introductory one plus four on the NT "new commandments") which I could never have done if I'd been stuck with the Lectionary.
In each of these I have used the appropriate reading from Exodus (or the NT) plus another which I felt shed further light on the text.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
The Reformed historical tradition has been to preach through a book at a time and you divided the book up according to where you thought the breaks should be. Sometimes people did huge chunks; sometimes focussed on single verses. Ideally following this method during a preachers lifetime they should cover the whole of the Bible.
It is neither preaching at will nor following a lectionary. Indeed people who still follow this, often do so because lectionaries make it too easy to avoid the hard passages.
I am not sure where I stand on this but it does lead to a very different take on theology. In other words neither this nor the lectionary are theologically neutral.
Jengie
[ 15. August 2013, 13:31: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WearyPilgrim:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by WearyPilgrim:
...find a theme, or themes, common to the lections...
This is a canard. I blame it on ignorant homiletics professors.
There is no need to touch on each lection—like a busy little bee, anxious not to miss a single flower. This obsessive approach usually leads the preacher to skim the surface of each reading, offering nothing of substance to the congregation.
Dig into one of the lections. Then—if at all, and only after a thorough exegesis—begin to explore if there is a helpful connection with another lection.
If you find yourself connecting more than two lections, then you can be sure you have arrived at the point where you need to kill your darlings.
There is no theme in the OT historical track of Revised Common Lectionary.
absolutely agree
OK . . . Well, then, if there is no thematic connection between the lections, then tell me: What exactly is the point in reading them all? This seems to me to be precisely the thing about which the early New England Puritans raised an objection --- the reading of the Scriptures in worship for no stated purpose other than to read them, without comment. They called it "dumb reading." Yes, yes, I know . . . Catholics, Anglicans, and Lutherans are quick to point out that they read far more Scripture at Sunday worship than most fundamentalist or evangelical churches, but if the sermon is intended to be the means by which the Holy Spirit brings God's Word "home," so to speak, then why read three lessons when you're going to focus on only one?
Because it isn't about "just reading" them: it's about proclamation. The point isn't even principally didactic or edificatory, but an act of worship in itself. Which is something the old practice of chanting the lections helps to make clear.
The lessons don't, in other words, have their focus or consummation in the sermon. Thus at low Mass, the lections are read but no sermon is (/need be) given.
--------------------
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Twangist
Shipmate
# 16208
|
Posted
Reading this is a welcome distraction to preparing Sundays effort ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
If I recall, Spurgeon used to read a chapter of scripture and briefly comment on it as well as his fuller preaching.
--------------------
JJ
SDG
blog
Posts: 604 | From: Devon | Registered: Feb 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
The Reformed historical tradition has been to preach through a book at a time and you divided the book up according to where you thought the breaks should be. Sometimes people did huge chunks; sometimes focussed on single verses.
Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones notably (or notoriously) did that every Friday night with his "Bible Readings" on Romans. Even after 13 years he never quite reached the end, which makes me ask if sometimes one can get too close to texts and fail to see the broader picture.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
As an occasional preacher, I think I understand what might be meant by 'burden'.
Personally, it's not the effort I put into preparing the sermon. There's a need to read the texts, wrestle with them, identify the point that God wants the congregation to hear as I expound them, and then actually write the sermon. I find that relatively easy, though it does take time (several weeks of mulling stuff over in spare time before I put much on paper at all, for me). A fair bit harder, but still not a burden, is the selection of hymns and composition of prayers. And, actual delivery of the service wracks the nerves and leaves me worn out and in need of a wee nap. But, that's not a burden either.
However, leading worship does put me into an awesomely responsible position. I'm there to help the congregation to hear the Scriptures, to think through those Scriptures, to reflect and meditate upon them, and for somehow God to speak to them and nourish them through their reflections upon his Word (both written and Incarnate in Christ Jesus). As a preacher, and also as leader in prayer and selector of hymns, I am their to provide space and some guidance to the congregation as we collectively reflect upon the Scriptures read. I don't think that means I have to tell them what the Scriptures mean, or how they should apply them, it also means I don't feel obliged to preach on all the Scriptures read (though, in practice, using the RCL with the OT thematically linked with the Gospel, I usually find that I preach on one text with the others providing useful illumination). I'm aware that the hymns and prayers are also part of that process of reflecting on Scripture, that remembering what God has done and who he is and bringing that reality back into the forefront of the lives of the congregation. And, finally, I'm there to then encourage them, and myself, out the door to live what they have heard.
That is a great responsibility, and the weight of that is something I am aware of throughout the process of preparing and leading a service. That is a burden; it doesn't necessarily make it hard to do, but it does make me put 110% into the process so that God can work through me as clearly as possible.
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lou Poulain
Shipmate
# 1587
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
I am a lay preacher and do so maybe 6 times a year. Thus I have the luxury of "incubating" the text for several weeks before really settling down to write. And so I have nothing but admiration for those of you who preach faithfully, week after week. I'm sure, like with all skills, one learns how to prepare a sermon in a much shorter time frame, but still, I am in awe of you all. Thank you for your ministry!
This post resonated with me! I too am a lay preacher, scheduled for about six dates per year, and I enjoy the luxury of time to let things perculate. I find that the act of writing helps me clarify what I want to say, which triggers another draft. But by the end of it all it is worth it. I have terrible bouts of self-doubt on the Saturdays before preaching Sundays. I've often wondered if I am alone in that.
[ 23. August 2013, 23:56: Message edited by: Lou Poulain ]
Posts: 526 | From: Sunnyvale CA USA | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
I find my self doubt strikes on Sunday at lunch. Just when I'm least able to do something about it!
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
WearyPilgrim
Shipmate
# 14593
|
Posted
I have a liberal Methodist colleague who feels very strongly that the use of the Common Lectionary is both a hindrance to creative preaching and a hindrance to the movement of the Holy Spirit. He maintains that the best way to engage a congregation --- and especially people who have problems with Christianity --- is to choose a passage of Scripture to use as a springboard and then draw upon poetry, stories, other literature, and the daily news in order to fashion a sermon that deals with the needs of one's hearers rather than what the chosen Lectionary lections impose. I should add that he tries to eschew any use of Biblical or theological jargon that people within the church don't understand well and that those who have lived most of their lives outside the church don't understand at all.
I have mixed thoughts about this, to say the least. That said, however, his congregation --- and his church --- are growing.
Posts: 383 | From: Sedgwick, Maine USA | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
It has been interesting to me how timely the RCL readings are. Not always, mind you. But often enough for me to notice and shake my head in wonder.
But I like the connection, however spurious, that the RCL provides between my congregation and a sizeable chunk of the rest of the Church. There are many such ties, but the RCL provides one of the more visible ones.
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WearyPilgrim:
He maintains that the best way to engage a congregation --- and especially people who have problems with Christianity --- is to choose a passage of Scripture to use as a springboard and then draw upon poetry, stories, other literature, and the daily news in order to fashion a sermon that deals with the needs of one's hearers rather than what the chosen Lectionary lections impose.
But on what basis does he choose the passage(s) of Scripture? Those that chime in with his own favourite poems etc? In which case isn't he guilty of editing Scripture to conform to his - or at least the congregation's - own prejudices? How is the challenge of the Gospel going to speak through all this?
I'm not saying that this guy isn't capable of seeing or preaching the challenge, nor that he doesn't understand his congregation. But I know from experience how easy it is to delude oneself that one knows what they think (or especially that they all think the same way or have the same needs). And if the congregation is growing, is it because they want to be challenged or because they are being affirmed in their existing prejudices?
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
|
Posted
It has never been a burden, but I appear to have been given a natural gift for it. I also had wonderful training in preaching, early on. I guess I have a small burden, more of an inconvenience really then a burden. I use to preach all the time without notes, but at my age I can no longer trust myself to remember what I was going to say. Now I am starting to have problems reading my notes so not sure what is next.
I knew one priest who was not a very good preacher at all. He was also not very good at pulling together the liturgy on a Sunday morning, but he had great pastoral gifts and was such a joyful, sincere person of faith that he preached by his life if not his words. I don't think anyone really was upset that his preaching skills were wanting. People would joke about it from time to time but always in a caring way.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
