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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: MW reports and holidays
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Perhaps I am being unfair, but I am a little concerned that some MW reports (especially some recent British ones) unintentionally present an atypical impression of the churches simply because the visits to them were made during the holiday season. So ministers are replaced by substitutes, there is no choir, and so on.
I do appreciate that many MW reports will be written at such times (and Sod's Law says that all too many visits will be made, however inadvertently, on "non-normal" occasions).
What do others think? I do realise that Shipmates are intelligent people and will take these factors into account.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Perhaps I am being unfair, but I am a little concerned that some MW reports (especially some recent British ones) unintentionally present an atypical impression of the churches simply because the visits to them were made during the holiday season. So ministers are replaced by substitutes, there is no choir, and so on.
I do appreciate that many MW reports will be written at such times (and Sod's Law says that all too many visits will be made, however inadvertently, on "non-normal" occasions).
What do others think? I do realise that Shipmates are intelligent people and will take these factors into account.
Surely everyone will accept that each MW report is just a snapshot... and that atypical reports may equally well be better rather than worse than the norm!? Or do I mean the other way round?
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Perhaps the Mystery Worshippers are more likely to be in unfamiliar settings during holiday seasons.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I'm sure they are - for instance I MW'd a local church last week (not for the Ship but at the request of one of its leaders) - but, being a Bank Holiday weekend, it was hardly a typical Sunday.
quote:
Surely everyone will accept that each MW report is just a snapshot... and that atypical reports may equally well be better rather than worse than the norm!? Or do I mean the other way round?
I hope so ... but what if they don't quite realise? That I suppose is the problem with only being able to have one, inevitably subjective, report on a church - can't be helped I suppose.
Anyway, I enjoy reading them!
[ 31. August 2013, 22:16: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
We were MW'd a few years back:
- Vicar was away
- Choir was down by two-thirds
- Organist was away
- Deputy organist was unavailable
- Stand-in had never played for choral matins before
- Organ was being re-built and we only had a small chamber instrument
BUT the MW still saw that we are a very friendly and welcoming church, that the service was conducted in a good way, that the preaching was of a high standard and that we are a lively and out-going parish.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
In many places, holiday time is when most "normal" visitors will be passing through, so a report during the holidays is probably a good guide for a potential visitor.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
We were MW'd a few years back:
- Vicar was away
- Choir was down by two-thirds
- Organist was away
- Deputy organist was unavailable
- Stand-in had never played for choral matins before
- Organ was being re-built and we only had a small chamber instrument
BUT the MW still saw that we are a very friendly and welcoming church, that the service was conducted in a good way, that the preaching was of a high standard and that we are a lively and out-going parish.
Reminds me of the National Church Life Survey, which is big in OZ. I won't have it now, but basically people stay away in droves if they know it's on, because they hate filling in forms.
I have MW'd once and I still don't know if the church was having a normal Sunday or a special occasion. But it was weird to the max.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
It might be that the latest MWers may have more time to MW when on holiday than at other times.
If a MWer turns up on the off-chance, it may not be quite business as usual for whatever reason and the MWer did not know beforehand. In other words, my advice would be not to go too much by one person's version of a written report.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
The point of the MW project is to give a church an impression of what they might look like to a casual visitor who happens to wander in. So it is right and proper and - indeed- realistic that they get one chance at making a good impression.
Saying 'oh but we couldn't do X, Y and Z that day' is just making excuses. What it brings home is that the impression you project has to be consistent, because the week you fall down may be the one that matters.
Not that this means you have to provide bells and whistles and complex organ preludes every week. But at least you need to ensure the welcome and the prayerfulness are there the whole time.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Would love to have a Mystery Worshiper visit my church any Sunday of the Year. I would like to know how a critical eye sees us. My home church is Trinity Lutheran Church, Pullman WA if there are any takers.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
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Posted
I had planned to MW a smallish parish in San Francisco a couple of years back, in June. It turned out to be Gay Pride Sunday in SF, and my wife and I and two of our in-laws were the majority of the congregation. I decided this was probably so far removed from a typical Sunday in this parish, I slipped my calling card back into my pocket and my wife, in-laws and I simply worshipped with this congregation of 10 (including organist and clergy) or less.
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"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
Posts: 386 | From: Between two big lakes | Registered: Apr 2008
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Churches that blame their 'low' reports on a random Sunday's lack of programming, equipment, or leadership really, really, really need to reevaluate who they are and what their true purpose is.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Churches that blame their 'low' reports on a random Sunday's lack of programming, equipment, or leadership really, really, really need to reevaluate who they are and what their true purpose is.
While there might be a degree of unfairness to being reviewed on the basis of a random Sunday rather than a more extensive examination of a parish' life, we need to remember that a random Sunday is when a visitor will encounter the place. That's not to be blamed on the MW. That church needs to improve their Sundays so that another random worshipper, perhaps seeking a spiritual home, will find a functioning something that works for them.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Yes...that's what I was trying to say. If their hopes and dreams hinge upon something that isn't offered all the time, then they should perhaps offer that thing all the time. Still, I do think they should move to the point of asking whether they actually want their hopes and dreams hinging upon that thing.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Churches that blame their 'low' reports on a random Sunday's lack of programming, equipment, or leadership really, really, really need to reevaluate who they are and what their true purpose is.
I agree. For the majority of churches that might plead that it's the holiday season, there would surely be some other weak excuse at the ready for the other 11 months of the year.
There's no need for the holiday season to affect anything other than a pared back music team and a simpler offering for childrens' ministry programs. What doesn't need to be compromised is the quality of what is offered (especially the preaching, this can be prepared in advance with any lay preachers if the pastor is taking leave) or the warmth of the welcome. In Australia this is particularly important as the January holiday period is prime time for people shifting into a new area and going church shopping, it's simply the wrong time to just give up for five weeks.
There are way too many churches out there which could drop off the face of the earth without the rest of the community noticing they had gone, and that would therefore serve the community best by shutting up shop, selling all the property and giving the money to the poor. Better to go out with a bang and make a powerful public statement about the kingdom than to keep a dead body on life support for years.
[ 04. September 2013, 15:08: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
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Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Dogwalker
Shipmate
# 14135
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Posted
It seems to me that the best the MW can really do is to explain (if they even know) why the Sunday might be unusual, and leave it to the reader to understand the implications.
The same issue arises with Holy Days. Several years ago, my church was MWed on Easter. If I remember right, the MW mentioned that the Rector didn't come down from the altar in greeting when they arrived early. I'm not sure that's fair either: after a busy Triduum, the tired Rector didn't greet a stranger on the one Sunday the church can be expected to be full of strangers, but left it to the greeters. It doesn't seem that surprising to me, even though I'd hope for better.
I really have much more of an issue with a MW who goes to, say, a high AC church and complains that it's too liturgical for their taste!
It seems to me that the MW should report that the church does a good (or bad, or indifferent) job of what they try to do, rather than what the MW wishes they would do.
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If God had meant for us to fly, he wouldn't have given us the railways. - Unknown
Posts: 155 | From: Milford, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Sergius-Melli
Shipmate
# 17462
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Would love to have a Mystery Worshiper visit my church any Sunday of the Year. I would like to know how a critical eye sees us. My home church is Trinity Lutheran Church, Pullman WA if there are any takers.
I think many of us probably want a MW visitor for this purpose (if anyone happens to be passing through West Wales...), shame that Churches don't have an OFSTED (schools inspectorate) style body in place for regular 'critical eye' inspections...
Posts: 722 | From: Sneaking across Welsh hill and dale with a thurible in hand | Registered: Dec 2012
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
We had an MW quite a few years ago, but the MWer (a denizen of this board) was quite careful to point out that it was not, perhaps, a typical Sunday (the First Sunday after Christmas), and that the parish was still recovering from a Bad Time (in this case, the departure for Rome of the second priest-in-charge in succession....).
Reading his report in that context, it was both accurate and encouraging.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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