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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Applauding in church
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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# 8891
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Posted
Not sure if this belongs here or in purgatory, no doubt a host will advise…..
I’ve started writing a few songs, and have played them in my church a couple of times (more info on my blog).
When I’ve played these songs, the congregation has often applauded me afterwards. I’m not sure how I feel about this – I almost feel as though I’m being applauded for worshipping, which makes me feel uncomfortable.
Is this as big a problem as I’m making it, or am I getting worried about nothing?
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Laurelin
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# 17211
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Posted
I do agree that worship should not be applauded. It's not a performance. Yikes.
OTOH, your congregation are graciously expressing their appreciation at the musical gifts God has blessed you with and that you want to use for His glory. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I don't throw up my hands in horror every time a church fellowship does this - applaud - but I agree it's a fine line and that applause in a worship context should be used very sparingly. The person leading the service should kindly but firmly advise/instruct the congregation thus, IMO.
Hope that helps ..
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
No, worship in services is quite okay for Eccles - enjoy!
dj_ordinaire, your friendly Eccles host
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Flinging wide the gates...
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Anglo Catholic Relict
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# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Not sure if this belongs here or in purgatory, no doubt a host will advise…..
I’ve started writing a few songs, and have played them in my church a couple of times (more info on my blog).
When I’ve played these songs, the congregation has often applauded me afterwards. I’m not sure how I feel about this – I almost feel as though I’m being applauded for worshipping, which makes me feel uncomfortable.
Is this as big a problem as I’m making it, or am I getting worried about nothing?
Perhaps if you regard the applause as directed towards the person who gave you the gift of musical ability you will be happier. Then you will be free to join in, and point to the cross, or the ceiling, or wherever will convey that message to the congregation.
Applause is fine, as long as we do not think the credit for our gifts lies with us. We get the credit for the hard work, but the gift comes from God.
Alternatively, write a song about it ...
[ 17. September 2013, 08:36: Message edited by: Anglo Catholic Relict ]
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Sipech
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# 16870
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Posted
Applauding can be done for a number of reasons, which will depend on the culture.
For example, I recall when pope John Paul II died, the crowds applauded. It seemed, to my British sensibilities, that they were saying 'well done on dying' - though the tv pundits said that this was a way of expressing grief and saying thank you for a life well lived.
In the pentecostal churches I've been a part of, the applause is supposed to be directed to God as a means of expressive worship, though the fact that it tends to occur at the end of songs does lend itself to a misunderstanding that it is directed at the music band.
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Applauding during worship is strictly verboten in Orthodoxy, for the reason Laurelin cited: it's not a performance. Applause for a great musician or speaker takes the focus off God and makes worship like any other concert or lecture.
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
We applaud:
(i) to thank the Sunday School children for their report;
(ii) to welcome a newly baptised person into our congregation of Christ's church;
(iii) ditto for confirmees and to congratulate those inducted into church office;
(iv) to farewell parishioners who are moving away; and
(v) to thank the organist for the postlude.
None of these is to do with worship.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Caissa
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# 16710
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Posted
I'm a fan of applauding. It is a genuine expression of a human emotion.
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
And is every human emotion one which should be expressed in worship?
Applauding is good for the purposes that PD describes. It is not appropriate for something that is part of worship because worhsip isn't a performance from whichwe are distanced: we should all be participating in worship, even if apparently inactively as prayerful listeners or watchers.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
We tend to applaud for the same things as GeeD. And also a wedding couple as they process back down the aisle after their wedding.
I guess if you are on the receiving end of applause, it's best to quietly smile and say thank you, but not to let yourself get big-headed about it. That's what we do as a choir on the odd occasion when we get applause for something (usually in one of those grey areas which are neither quite 'service' or 'concert', eg. a longer work such as the Faure Requiem).
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Komensky
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# 8675
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Posted
In the bad old days when I attended a big charismatic church in London, the 'worship leader' would get around this by saying 'let's give God (or Jesus) a clap!'. I'm serious.
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
When I’ve played these songs, the congregation has often applauded me afterwards.
We don't know how formal your church is. If a certain informality is acceptable, you could preface your performance with a request that all applause be directed to God. If your goal is to create a more formal atmosphere then you or a church leader (or the church notices) might request that worshippers avoid clapping during services.
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bib
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# 13074
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Posted
We solved the problem by putting a note in the weekly church bulletin asking people not to applaud during the worship. I think some people aren't used to church practice and feel they have to applaud as at a concert. Unfortunately once a few start to clap others tend to join in.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Sipech
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# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
We solved the problem by putting a note in the weekly church bulletin asking people not to applaud during the worship. I think some people aren't used to church practice and feel they have to applaud as at a concert. Unfortunately once a few start to clap others tend to join in.
Why is it seen as a "problem"? I can understand some people not being used it, if they are particularly stiff-upper-lip, to use the MW terminology. But is it wrong? Can it not count as "a joyful noise unto the Lord"?
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
In the bad old days when I attended a big charismatic church in London, the 'worship leader' would get around this by saying 'let's give God (or Jesus) a clap!'. I'm serious.
K.
I've come across this occasionally. I don't think it's that bad, but maybe I'd be a bit irritated if I had to hear someone say it every week.
Some churches have a culture of open appreciation, and some expect that appreciation to be expressed quietly on the inside. So long as a church knows what type is it then everything should be okay. The problem arises when this isn't clear to everyone present.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
The trouble with commands to applaud God is that if someone doesn't feel comfortable joining in, it looks as if they dislike God. If a way could be found not to draw attention to those who don't wish to join in with a certain group mentality, then it's a much better alternative.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Sipech
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# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
if someone doesn't feel comfortable joining in, it looks as if they dislike God.
Could that not apply to just about anything in church? For example, I don't naturally raise my hands in worship. If commanded to raise my hands, I usually stick them in my pockets.
And I never join in with liturgical chanting. I know some like it, but I can't abide it. But then I am a non-conformist, so I rebel against pretty much anything I'm told to do.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
The trouble with commands to applaud God is that if someone doesn't feel comfortable joining in, it looks as if they dislike God. If a way could be found not to draw attention to those who don't wish to join in with a certain group mentality, then it's a much better alternative.
If you really don't like this sort of thing then it would be best not to attend a church where it's part of the culture. In the same vein, if I were in a traditional Anglican church I wouldn't dream of clapping because that's not part of the culture, and the 'group mentality' there would be urging me most powerfully against it!!
We all have to make choices about what aspects of a church we're willing to put up with in order to benefit from those things that we actively value.
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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# 8891
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Posted
Thanks everyone - I'm sure that the applause isn't meant to glorify me in any way, but a way of the congregation showing their appreciation. We are a very informal church, so it's not going against the grain so to speak.
I suppose that a (large) part of me doesn't feel worthy to be applauded.
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
I would feel as uncomfortable as the OP. But it is difficult to express that without sounding grumpy. In our church we have a respectful hush when the choir sings an anthem. But when the junior choir does something they get applauded. I am in two or three minds about this. On the one hand people find it natural to show their appreciation and encouragement that way, and to complain just seems ungracious somehow. On the other hand it seems to be making the point that the kids are performing for our entertainment, and it isn't really an act of worship. These are generally very young children, otherwise I'm sure they would feel patronised ("aww, aren't they cute").
What about the organ postlude? Is that entertainment? Background music as people file out of their pews? Or a final act of worship?
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
As part of worship = no
If something rather else = possibly
I had posted in All Saints re joining a new parish which claps after the postlude (link to post.
The problem I see is that we have been dismissed, e.g., Go forth into the world to love and serve God, R=Thanks be to God, and then there's something played. They clap for that. The post-service praying can come after that apparently?
I'm thinking the thing to do is to be tolerant. Make no scene about clapping, but don't do it if you don't like it? Don't know how I'd take clapping, for instance, for a choir anthem in the service proper.
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PaulBC
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# 13712
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Posted
Within the service No
Outside of the srvice i.e. re announcement or when a person is acknowledged yes
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
I'm a fan of applauding. It is a genuine expression of a human emotion.
So is yelling "God damn it!" when you trip over something. That doesn't mean it's appropriate for church! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PaulBC:
Within the service No
Outside of the srvice i.e. re announcement or when a person is acknowledged yes
For some reason - and I am not sure why - I long ago accquired the exact opposite prejudice. Clapping people in church is just something Not Done. You don't applaud the musicians or speakers however good they are. Its not a concert. Its not about boosting each others pride or position. It sort of goes along with not having national flags in church, or not making distinctions of secular rank. That's noot what church is for.
Applauding God, on the other hand, seems perfectly acceptable. We'er in church to worship God, clapping uis a way of exrepssing praise, so no fundamental problem in using it as part of public worhsip. I don't like doing it it much, and I can't imagine I'd ever include it in a service I was planning or leading, but that's just a sort of cultural habit. I don't speak Chinese, so I am unlikely to worship God in Chinese, but I'd ahve no problme with others doing so.
Genuinely unsure where I got the prejudice from. I don't remember ever hearing anyone preaching about it, we certainly have no rules about it, but somewhere in the back of my mind is "Thou Shalt Not Applaud In Church".
Maybe its one of those things that's not the official teaching of our churches but you pick up anyway - like not having breakfast before Communion (not that I'd be likely to as I'd rather stay in bed, but some peopel might) Or the idea that you need to be confirmed before taking Communion. That's not at all a rule of the Church of England these days (and if it ever was its well before my time) but in our parish at least we seem to almost universally adopt it by the unconfirmed voluntarily abstaining even though no-one told them to and no-one would refuse them if they did come up.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
To those who are opposed to applauding in church, why?
It would be easier for to accept, for example, Fr Weber's position, if it could be explained what the grounds are for saying it's not appropriate in church.
Is there a committee for deciding what is and isn't appropriate, or is there some biblical basis for shunning it?
[ 17. September 2013, 16:00: Message edited by: TheAlethiophile ]
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
For some reason - and I am not sure why - I long ago accquired the exact opposite prejudice. Clapping people in church is just something Not Done. You don't applaud the musicians or speakers however good they are. Its not a concert. Its not about boosting each others pride or position.
What is interesting is that some people feel reticent in applauding performers when a concert or play is given in church (i.e. as an entertainment, not as part of worship); and some churches actively discourage applause as something "disrespectful for a place of worship".
Not only IMO does that leave the artistes feeling singularly unappreciated, but it draws an uncomfortable line between the supposedly "sacred" and "secular" and fails to recognise the fact that the talents and creativity on display are God-given.
[ 17. September 2013, 16:04: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
To those who are opposed to applauding in church, why?
It would be easier for to accept, for example, Fr Weber's position, if it could be explained what the grounds are for saying it's not appropriate in church.
Is there a committee for deciding what is and isn't appropriate, or is there some biblical basis for shunning it?
It's not something we do, because it makes the service seem like a concert--as though it's about the choir, or the priest.
But my post was really about pointing up the weakness of Caissa's argument more than propping up my position. I am aware that in some church cultures applause is okay, and I'm not really interested in arguing against that.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Not only IMO does that leave the artistes feeling singularly unappreciated,
If you're playing or singing in order to feel appreciated, you're doing it for the wrong reason, and arguably when the applause dies down, "you have received your reward in full."
When I sing in the choir, I sing to praise God, and because (this is the selfish part) I like singing. Most of the time my "recognition" is my friend A. making covert hand signals to let me know I'm singing flat.
[ 17. September 2013, 16:16: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
I think our society in general has lost some of its repertoire of styles of expression. Apparently now the only way to show appreciation at the end of a performance of music is to clap as loudly as possible and maybe hoot as well. Likewise, a church service is like any other meeting, and might as well spend the minutes before it starts catching up on conversation or risk being thought unfriendly.
Some churches (I think our parish church is one) have been fortunate to have long ago developed an atmosphere of prayerful silence. Even those who enter our building chatting tend to stop as soon as they enter the nave, as it's usually devoid of conversation...it looks and seems different. I've always loved that about our church and wish such an atmosphere were easily instituted into a church that doesn't yet have it.
Anyway, clapping isn't unknown in our church, and sometimes it's requested by a celebrant during the announcements, as a legitimate expression of appreciation for someone, or a congratulations (showing thanks to the choir for a heavy Holy Week of excellent singing, etc.). But it's never expected by the musicians (although politely acknowledged when it happens).
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S. Bacchus
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# 17778
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Posted
Not applauding during services strikes me as one of the most basic pieces of church etiquette. I've known (and, in one instance, dated) people who didn't know that men normally remove their hats within a church, but even all knew that applause wasn't appropriate. I've never heard anyone applaud the choir in any English cathedral, or other church with a choral tradition. Applause after the postlude is more divided, I would guess that the odds are about three to one against. I don't know how I feel about such applause, but I tend to follow local custom.
We do applaud certain things in church. Most recently the licensing of a new curate. I think also baptisms and confirmations. It's probably a bit naff, but I don't mind.
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'It's not that simple. I won't have it to be that simple'.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:
We do applaud certain things in church. Most recently the licensing of a new curate. I think also baptisms and confirmations. It's probably a bit naff, but I don't mind.
A few times I've experienced applause rather than the expected liturgical response in our Baptismal rite. It should go like this, after the Baptism and anointing:
Celebrant: Let us welcome the newly baptized.
People: We receive you into the household of God. Confess the faith of Christ crucified, proclaim his resurrection, and share with us in his eternal priesthood.
But in at least two instances I've experienced, it has gone this way:
Celebrant, rather loudly: Let us welcome the newly baptized!
People: <clapping> Yay! Hoot! Woo!
And then a sheepish rendition of the expected text started by a few who didn't hoot or clap. Giggles all around.
I think it helps if the Celebrant uses a moderate tone of voice and doesn't invite clapping and hooting by shouting the "Let us welcome..." bit.
And I know the louder impromptu response isn't entirely inappropriate for the occasion, but perhaps it could erupt after the welcoming text is recited. Then everyone will be clearer what we mean by the hootin' and hollerin'. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Caissa
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# 16710
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Posted
I do not believe there is any legitimate theological reason for eschewing clapping in church. It seems curmudgeonly to oppose clapping. I don't need a strong argument to defend clapping, the onus lies on those who wish to ban it since they perceive it as undignified. It is a perfectly natural human reaction to clap to express pleasure.
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Wm Dewy
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# 16712
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
To those who are opposed to applauding in church, why?
Because what we say and do in church should be for the greater glory of God and not for the admiration of our fellow sinners.
While the Kingdom of God should be a loving family, it isn't called to be a mutual admiration society.
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"And harmoniums and barrel - organs be miserable--what shall I call 'em ? - miserable machines for such a divine thing as music!"
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Not only IMO does that leave the artistes feeling singularly unappreciated,
If you're playing or singing in order to feel appreciated, you're doing it for the wrong reason, and arguably when the applause dies down, "you have received your reward in full."
When I sing in the choir, I sing to praise God, and because (this is the selfish part) I like singing. Most of the time my "recognition" is my friend A. making covert hand signals to let me know I'm singing flat.
You didn't read my post properly. I was quite specifically NOT referring to worship - in which I agree with you 100% - but to concerts or plays put on in church buildings (for instance, Aldeburgh Music in Suffolk often uses Iken and Blythburgh churches; these are paid-for commercial events). IMO applause is perfectly justified at such events; but some churches discourage or prohibit it.
[ 17. September 2013, 17:22: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
I do not believe there is any legitimate theological reason for eschewing clapping in church. It seems curmudgeonly to oppose clapping. I don't need a strong argument to defend clapping, the onus lies on those who wish to ban it since they perceive it as undignified. It is a perfectly natural human reaction to clap to express pleasure.
I don't think anyone's said we shouldn't clap because it's undignified. Those who oppose clapping seem to do so on the grounds that it shifts the focus from the worship of God, turning the congregation into an audience and the liturgy into a performance.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
I'm a fan of applauding. It is a genuine expression of a human emotion.
So is yelling "God damn it!" when you trip over something. That doesn't mean it's appropriate for church!
I've said far worse than that!
Fortunately, my microphone was turned off.
[ 17. September 2013, 17:28: Message edited by: leo ]
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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
To those who are opposed to applauding in church, why?
I'm not opposed to applauding as such, I just get embarrassed when it's aimed at me.
quote:
Is there a committee for deciding what is and isn't appropriate?
Yes, it's the old ladies on the back row
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Thanks everyone - I'm sure that the applause isn't meant to glorify me in any way, but a way of the congregation showing their appreciation. We are a very informal church, so it's not going against the grain so to speak.
I suppose that a (large) part of me doesn't feel worthy to be applauded.
Oh, look - if you play a nice tune people like and do it reasonably well you are good for a round of applause. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with applause. I prefer to discourage it because I think it important to make the distinction between worship and entertainment but generally people who applaud are not saying: "this means no more to me than a concert" or "All Hail The Children's Choir! Avatar Of Cthulhu Called To Supplant The Impostor Yahweh!" They are saying "We liked that, thank you". There are occasions depending on local context where people are going to want, nay, expect to applaud and if one takes issue with this one is going to come across as ungracious. If you have a choice between applause in church and coming across as a grumpy old so and so, applause wins every time. I don't know what your part of the Lord's Vineyard is like but in my neck of the woods "NO ONE MUST APPLAUD IN CHURCH EVER AGAIN" is approximately 5784th in the list of challenges confronting Christendom.
If you are really uncomfortable with the applause tell your pastor and he can have a word with the congregation and explain why it might be better for them not to applaud (You might have to stand at the church door with him and expect their thanks one by one - be careful what you wish for!)
But the bottom line is: it's cool they like you, it's cool they like your music and it's cool they want to show that appreciation to you. As the IT people say, that's not a bug, that's a feature.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Gwalchmai
Shipmate
# 17802
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Posted
In our church we applaud the children when they show us what they have been doing in Children's church which I think is entirely justified because it somehow brings the children and the adults together. OK, for the puritanicals among you, it isn't part of the liturgy.
We also applaud the newly baptised and the newly confirmed (the latter as instructed by the bishop) which is liturgical but is an entirely appropriate way of welcoming new members into the Church.
I don't recall applause during the service otherwise, although there have been occasions I feel like applauding the preacher. I have never come across the choir being applauded when singing during a service (as opposed to a concert performance) - although in my present church the choir are not yet of an applaudable standard!
Posts: 133 | From: England | Registered: Aug 2013
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
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Posted
My experience is the same as Gee D. The post-postlude applause is the one I least like, but I do join in with a restrained clap when I've sat and listened to the whole thing; it seems churlish not to join with the others who are also doing so.
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I've started blogging. I don't promise you'll find anything to interest you at uncleconrad
Posts: 946 | From: Mount Fairy, NSW | Registered: Jun 2007
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
I stand firmly in the ranks of the cautious applauders, with a cautious applause for GeeD's exceptions. However I will never forget one sacred moment at St Paul's Cathedral in Melbourne, traditionally a rather stuffy place. It was the late '80s, at a double consecration (i.e. the consecration of two bishops, Butterss and Hollingworth).The Grand Old Man™ of the diocese, two archbishops back Sir Frank Woods, tiny, frail, with his voice little more than a whisper (though still able to convey his Oxbridge accent!) delivered an absolutely cutting edge sermon, weaving in and out of current affairs, sacramental theology, liberation theology and biblical scholarship. When he finished there was a stunned silence.
Was it then the cathedral erupted in deafening, spontaneous applause, or later, as he shuffled down the aisle dwarfed by his own crozier ... Or both? All I know is it remains one of the holiest moments of my life.
He died soon afterwards.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
We also applaud the newly baptised and the newly confirmed (the latter as instructed by the bishop) which is liturgical but is an entirely appropriate way of welcoming new members into the Church.
Likewise. We have also recently applauded a couple who were celebrating a milestone wedding anniversary, people whose term of service on the Vestry have finished, and so on. All these kinds of applause take place during the announcements.
quote:
I have never come across the choir being applauded when singing during a service (as opposed to a concert performance)
Interestingly, in our church, the people who like modern worship music tend to applaud, whereas the people who like traditional choral music tend to find applause inappropriate.
As a result, the "worship singers" get lots of applause, but the choir doesn't.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Trickydicky
Shipmate
# 16550
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Posted
Worship is offered to God.
By people.
And because it is people who are offering worship, emotions will be part of it.
Yes, there are problems - the focus is God, not us (so I mutter a quiet thanks to the reader as they return to their seats, not a public one).
But Zappa's story clearly shows that applause can be utterly appropriate in church.
What about other emotions? Psalms is full of them. Anyone read psalm 137 in church - in its entirety? Psalm 88 is so despairing that it doesn't even offer a glimmer of hope. How can we express those emotions in worship, and address them to God?
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If something's worth doing, its worth doing badly. (G K Chesterton)
Posts: 57 | From: Greater Manchester | Registered: Jul 2011
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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I've been to concerts in church, particularly at certain times of the year e.g. Lent, when the purpose has been devotional, even though it is a concert. At times like these, the intention is best made clear at the start - by saying something like 'We wish to offer this music as a devotion, therefore it would be appropriate if you would refrain from applauding until the end of the last item'. The respectful hush during the concert is often most moving. And the applause at the end all the more warm because of the atmosphere engendered.
I guess the same probably applies to church services - some are much more obviously thoughtful and reflective, others more like praise festivals. To make the intention clear, some instruction should be given at the start of the service if a particular behaviour is thought especially appropriate or inappropriate for the circumstances.
[ 18. September 2013, 21:19: Message edited by: Chorister ]
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I have certainly given God a round of applause in worship. It is something our more Charismatic brothers and sisters do.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulBC:
Within the service No
Outside of the srvice i.e. re announcement or when a person is acknowledged yes
For some reason - and I am not sure why - I long ago accquired the exact opposite prejudice. Clapping people in church is just something Not Done. You don't applaud the musicians or speakers however good they are. Its not a concert. Its not about boosting each others pride or position. It sort of goes along with not having national flags in church, or not making distinctions of secular rank. That's noot what church is for.
Applauding God, on the other hand, seems perfectly acceptable. We'er in church to worship God, clapping uis a way of exrepssing praise, so no fundamental problem in using it as part of public worhsip. I don't like doing it it much, and I can't imagine I'd ever include it in a service I was planning or leading, but that's just a sort of cultural habit. I don't speak Chinese, so I am unlikely to worship God in Chinese, but I'd ahve no problme with others doing so.
Genuinely unsure where I got the prejudice from. I don't remember ever hearing anyone preaching about it, we certainly have no rules about it, but somewhere in the back of my mind is "Thou Shalt Not Applaud In Church".
Maybe its one of those things that's not the official teaching of our churches but you pick up anyway - like not having breakfast before Communion (not that I'd be likely to as I'd rather stay in bed, but some peopel might) Or the idea that you need to be confirmed before taking Communion. That's not at all a rule of the Church of England these days (and if it ever was its well before my time) but in our parish at least we seem to almost universally adopt it by the unconfirmed voluntarily abstaining even though no-one told them to and no-one would refuse them if they did come up.
Ken
Not too many years ago we as a church were read the riot act on clapping in church.
The main theme was that this is a worship service not a concert . Applause after the service for announcements, or acknowledging an indvidual how ever is acceptable .
PaulBC
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
I attended a similar church long ago. WL would say, "Let's give the Lord a clap offering" or something like that. In defense of the practice, clapping as praise to God is mentioned in the Psalms.
At my current church we'll applaud the children's choir and the newly baptized, not much else.
Clapping as worship would be quite OK, but that's not our style. It's clapping someone's contribution to worship that's not. I can understand the applause for ++ Wood, a good man near the end of his ministry, and if it were at the recession, then it would have out of worship in any event*.
*At St Paul's Manuka, the dismissal is done from the west end of the nave, so there's little of the recession left after that.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Quite simply, worship is directed to God. It is not entertainment for the congregation (nor are they an audience -- if there is an audience at all, it is God who is the audience of our worship). Thus, the choir, soloists, and priest are not performers, except insofar as they are "performing" an act of worship directed to God. The idea of the congregation applauding an act of worship in which all in attendance are participating is simply bassackwards (to use an Americanism that seems fitting).
[ 19. September 2013, 02:32: Message edited by: Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras ]
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Last time I sang a solo (Eye Hath Not Seen - dramatic song) I was glad no one clapped, feels awkward to me when people do, but a woman at coffee told me it felt awkward not to clap.
Hmm, can we get to a "place" where there's no wondering "am I supposed to clap or not" if a few do? So those who want to as a natural response can without feeling out of place and without making others wonder if they supposed to clap also? Making people feel socially awkward is not what the moment is supposed to be about.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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