Ship of Fools: All Souls' Day

Thread: All Souls' Day Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

What plans do fellow shipmates have to mark All Souls this year? Because it falls on Saturday my local parish has decided to have a Sung Eucharist a couple of days earlier. Perhaps understandably the day it is observed seems to vary slightly depending on local custom.

I wasn't there last year but discovered that my suburban parish were expecting around 40 or so to attend, but in fact there were 150 in attendance and 120 communicants. It seems to have grown both in observance and in popularity.

Posted by NatDogg (# 14347) on :

I agree. The observation has grown in recent years. In my middle-of-the-road Episcopal place it has really blossomed.

Quick question for shipmates: what is the appropriate liturgical color for the observance? We don't have a black set. What? Violet? We'll have incense and all appropriate ceremony.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Same as always:

Proper Requiem mass using the setting by Gabriel Faure.

The fact that "the day" is a Saturday just means (a) we can have the service earlier and (b) we may get an even larger congregation than usual.

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

quote:
Originally posted by NatDogg:
I agree. The observation has grown in recent years. In my middle-of-the-road Episcopal place it has really blossomed.

Quick question for shipmates: what is the appropriate liturgical color for the observance? We don't have a black set. What? Violet? We'll have incense and all appropriate ceremony.

I have usually seen purple. I would be interested to read what ceremonial you use?

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

The current Roman Missal directs violet for All Souls (and black, violet or white for funerals), but those of us who use the Extraordinary Form use black for All Souls Day. At the end of Mass we do the absolution of the dead, complete with catafalque--pretty much the same ceremony as is used at any funeral Mass. We have a Solemn Requiem Mass with deacon and subdeacon. We usually have an evening Mass, just as we do the day before, but since it falls on a Saturday, we do make the regulat 9AM Low Mass a High Mass.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

I think we're having a Mass (probably with hymns and incense) at our usual Saturday time of 930am. Names will be read out, of course.

This service doesn't count as our Memorial Service - you know, the non-Eucharistic liturgy that many churches now celebrate around November for the families of those whose funerals with which the priest and parish have been involved over the past year. IYSWIM.

Ian J.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by NatDogg:
Quick question for shipmates: what is the appropriate liturgical color for the observance? We don't have a black set. What? Violet? We'll have incense and all appropriate ceremony.

"Dark" vestments like violet (or conceivably, a very deep navy blue) would be the next best choice in the absence of black. (And the first choice when a Requiem is celebrated before the Exposed Sacrament in the course of the 40 Hours' Devotion, aren't you glad to know).

Curiously, our habit seems to be to use black for the "general" requiem on All Souls, but white for those celebrated as the funerals of individuals. We will keep it on Saturday, but the prayer book rubric allows the "Commemoration All the Faithful Departed" to be kept on any day within the Octave of All Saints, and I have seen pretty broad variation in the scheduling. (In Toronto, for instance, the cathedral's requiem at St James the Less is always the Saturday nearest).

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

My church will be keeping All Saints and All Souls combined on Sunday 3rd.

The other church will be open all day for 3 days - Friday through Sunday, called 'Space to Remember, with prayer stations for individuals to come in and light candles etc. Everyone who organised a funeral there over the past year gets a written invitation.

Posted by Choirboi (# 9222) on :

quote:
I have usually seen purple. I would be interested to read what ceremonial you use?

Fortescue ceremonial. American Missal. Black vestments, and our most previous chalice, which we only use on All Souls' Day. Our choir is singing the Mozart requiem this year, complete with orchestra.

Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
My church will be keeping All Saints and All Souls combined on Sunday 3rd.

In our church we do the same, Leo: white vestments for All Saints. After the Eucharist we sing a hymn to the saints while the sanctuary part leave, lighted candles are given to everyone while the clergy change into black vestments, and then we do the Commemoration of the Departed.

Different, but people find it expressive in meeting spiritual/emotional needs.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

You can surely be cut some slack for making the occasional unusual liturgical choice, given the work you have cut out for you in partibus infidelium!

Posted by Steve_R (# 61) on :

Unfortunately I do have a problem with All Souls Day. Really the problem stems from my daughter. Many years ago as members of the choir we attended our All Souls Day service (Rachael being 9 or 10 at the time) during which the names of the departed were read out. At this point the church suffered a power cut and the names had to be read out by candlelight. The mains powered smoke detector in the kitchen, however, started to beep, lacking power. Thus we get "name, beep, name, beep, name, beep, ..." Rachael was so freaked out by this that she swore never to attend another All Souls service, ... ever! Nor have I since!

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

Black vestments, American Missal, ceremonial according to Lamburn insofar as it's possible. I hope to have one of the choristers to serve as cantor so I don't have to carry the minor propers & sequence by myself, but we'll see...

Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :

Umm...so you are moving it to the nearest Sunday or your website needs updating?

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Choirboi:

quote:
I have usually seen purple. I would be interested to read what ceremonial you use?
Fortescue ceremonial. American Missal. Black vestments, and our most previous chalice, which we only use on All Souls' Day. Our choir is singing the Mozart requiem this year, complete with orchestra.

How lovely. St Paul's Cathedral (where I went last year) used the Mozart requiem with Orchestra, and though I think I prefer Victoria's setting for liturgical use, it was still a stunning service.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

I truly don't wish to turn this in a direction intended for purgatory (ironic nomenclature for a thread about All Souls Day). However, it interests me to read about the growth of All Souls Day outside of the RCC (and missal ACs, who subscribe to a good deal of RC theology, anyway). Even more baffling to me is learning of churches who combine All Saints and All Souls, which while obviously related to each other, have their own distinctive liturgical, theological and devotional purposes.

Hearing that some venues use various requiem musical settings, I wonder if any of these include the antiphons from the Mass texts of the day. These make so clear the belief in purgatory, though that word itself is not used. Raised as an Anglican, I am aware of the tradition of the intermediate state, which really began to take hold after the First World War, when praying for the dead grew in popularity in the C of E. I am also aware that most Anglicans prior to that, and a good number still today, do not accept the existence of an intermediate state, and especially not the concept that our prayers in this world may help them attain the Beatific Vision sooner rather than later. As a missal-toting AC, I essentially believed in the traditional RC understanding of Masses for the Dead, which make this clear. However, I know that these All Souls Day remembrances often consist of recalling the names of faithful departed, rather than actually praying for their deliverance into heaven.

In the USA, the 1928 BCP kalendar does not include All Souls Day, and not even the 1963 edition of Lesser Feasts and Fasts mentions it. However, many AC shacks used texts of the Anglican or American Missals to various degrees, and these included Requiem Masses in general and All Souls Day in particular. Practices ranged from praying for the departed souls to see the light of Christ in heaven to the still widely popular St. Augustine's Prayer Book published by the Order of the Holy Cross, which actually uses the p-word. The 1979 American BCP provides for All Souls Day, but the prayers are classic exercises in vague theology so common to Anglicanism in general, i.e., each school of thought may not only interpret the texts to support its own beliefs, but also to specifically exclude those of the other camps. Thus, TEC includes those who hold not only New Age afterlife tenets, but also those who hold both traditional Catholic and Protestant views, which on the subject of the p-word are rather mutually exclusive. The former sees a need--indeed, an obligation--to pray for the departed souls to enter heaven, while the latter says that souls are already either damned or saved, and our prayers on earth cannot change that. This situation grows murkier when one sees such observances in other denominations, ones that do not even have the same High/Low praxes that Anglicanism has.

I realize that there are also social celebrations of the Day of the Dead that are almost completely divorced from Christian contexts, but for now these are outside the scope of my musings. There are many areas in which a seemingly contradictory range of beliefs exists within Anglicamism, but prayers for departed, be they at funerals or on All Souls Day, so touch the day-to-day practice of the average person, as to make my mind (admittedly soaked in RC teachings for so many years) unable to grasp this pick-and-choose approach to something that will inevitably affect each of us. I do hope that this is both clear and nonpolemic. [Help]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

There are two reasons why some us combine All Sts and All Souls:

1) Practical - sadly, people don't tend to come to church on two consecutive weekdays.

2) Theological - blurring the distinction between saints and souls. We don't know who is which so we combine them and both thank, pray for them and seek their intercessions.

Many on my personal 'dead list' who I bring to mass every ear at this time have been saints to me e.g. the priest who 'converted' and baptised me, the teacher who inspired me....

[ 12. October 2013, 17:49: Message edited by: leo ]

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

My choir is teaming with the Cathedral's choir for a concert on Saturday and the Cathedral's traditional afternoon Requiem mass on Sunday afternoon. Requiem setting by Durufle.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
I truly don't wish to turn this in a direction intended for purgatory (ironic nomenclature for a thread about All Souls Day). However, it interests me to read about the growth of All Souls Day outside of the RCC (and missal ACs, who subscribe to a good deal of RC theology, anyway).

Even weirder, it's part of the LCMS calendar, but not the ELCA. Go figure.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

We're having Low Mass at 7 a.m. on All Saints' Day, a Solemn Requiem at 10 a.m. on All Souls' Day, and a Solemn Procession and High Mass at 11 a.m. on the Sunday After All Saints' Day (permitted by our BCP).

The long list of names of the departed, submitted by parishioners and friends of the parish, will be read out at the Solemn Requiem. Black vestments, unbleached candles, catafalque.

[ 13. October 2013, 00:18: Message edited by: Oblatus ]

Posted by Vulpior (# 12744) on :

All Saints is our title, so we will be marking the feast on the Sunday. All Souls will then follow on the Monday. Evening requiem, Mozart last year. I'm not involved enough to be prescient of the details of this year.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
Umm...so you are moving it to the nearest Sunday or your website needs updating?

Who, me?

I never transfer things to Sunday. Well, except maybe for the feast of title. But I hate the practice of transferring, say, Epiphany or Ascension to the nearest Sunday. In any case, I don't think it's allowed to say a Requiem Mass on Sunday, and that's essentially what the Commemoration of All Souls is.

Assuming you were referring to my parish's website, that was hacked and now a very generic placeholder is up at the address while we work out a newer look & feel.

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on :

We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.

Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:

quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
Umm...so you are moving it to the nearest Sunday or your website needs updating?
Who, me?

I never transfer things to Sunday. Well, except maybe for the feast of title. But I hate the practice of transferring, say, Epiphany or Ascension to the nearest Sunday. In any case, I don't think it's allowed to say a Requiem Mass on Sunday, and that's essentially what the Commemoration of All Souls is.

Assuming you were referring to my parish's website, that was hacked and now a very generic placeholder is up at the address while we work out a newer look & feel.

Understood. If you don't mind posting somewhere the Mass time I'll make an effort to attend, provided I can get a radiator fixed before then or can beg, borrow or steal other transportation.

Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.

How accurate. I wish more were able to observe on the days themselves.

I guess its an issue about who will turn out when.

........................................
http://dsa.ebay.co.uk/sch/surtees5/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:

quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.
How accurate. I wish more were able to observe on the days themselves.

I guess its an issue about who will turn out when.

........................................
http://dsa.ebay.co.uk/sch/surtees5/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686

Indeed. Whenever we try a Sung Eucharist on Saturday no more than 35 will come, whereas attendance at midweek services for feast days will be at least three times that number. We tried to ascertain why but to no avail!

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

One tradition (you know how things become a tradition? you do it for three years and it becomes a tradition) is to light votive candles just before the prayer of the church. Then when we go into the Eucharist the pastor makes a comment about how we join all the faithful departed in this feast that has no end.

Posted by Peregrinus Balticus (# 14728) on :

Worshipping in a drastically different ecclesiastical context than most Shipmates means that our solutions will probably seem very odd to other Threadfellows, but anyway:

Basic context: We are an English-language ecumenical congregation in Finland, resourced as outreach activity by the local Lutheran parishes, but also collaborating with the Anglican Chaplaincy (as parishes are called within the C of E's Diocese in Europe), based 160 km away in Helsinki. In addition to the Anglican Chaplain [=parish priest] in Helsinki, we have several Finnish Lutheran clergy more locally who also have Anglican PtO's [Permission to Officiate wearing an Anglican hat, as it were – a Canterbury cap?]. Here we see the Porvoo Agreement functioning well.

In Finland / in Finnish Lutheranism, All Saints and All Souls have become inextricably fused, with the name referencing All Saints (Pyhäinpäivä, 'Saints' Day') but with the stronger emphasis on remembering the departed from one's own family. It's a big event, a public holiday, always celebrated on the Saturday nearest 1 November; as darkness falls, every cemetery will be a sea of commemorative candles which people place on the graves of their loved ones; and in many cemeteries there will be one location where those whose family graves are elsewhere can light a candle, so that can end up with a hundred or more. It's beautiful and impressive practice, even if its theology has inevitably become very blurred.

So this year, Pyhäinpäivä falls on Saturday 2.11., and every Lutheran church will have memorial services which are usually packed full. There is no way that our international congregation could 'compete' with that, and it would be difficult for us even to get a venue for our own service; moreover many of our congregants will choose to attend a Lutheran service, since many of them do have Finnish family.

So in our international congregation we will celebrate All Saints at our usual Mass on the Sunday, 3.11., which wouldn't be complete without singing (as a Finnish friend called it) "Pom! For all the saints..."

However, we have also for many years held a Requiem in English on All Souls, usually for a very small gathering, but for whom it is very important. This year, we'll do that on the evening of Friday 1.11., treating that as the Eve of All Souls. It includes the reading out of the names of loved ones who have died during the preceding year, but also – at congregants' discretion, really – of loved ones who died earlier but whom they wish to remember and commemorate. I always for example list my father, who was killed in action in 1944. We usually sing a plainchant requiem setting.

Purists, ye may scoff if ye so wish; but I am extremely glad that one of our Finnish PtO's has volunteered to carry on with this tradition. And I think the idea of treating the Friday evening as All Souls' Eve is a neat solution.

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

I think it all sounds lovely Peregrinus! 'All things to all men' and all that!

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:

quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.
How accurate. I wish more were able to observe on the days themselves.

I guess its an issue about who will turn out when.

I will be observing them at home, personally, despite whatever my parish gets up to (which probably won't be much) because my cultural observance of the days is different than the predominant culture of my parish-- and even then, my culture's observance of the days focuses more on home than parish.

I'mna see if I can't sneak some marigolds into the altar flowers for the Sunday after the observances.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

It is treated very seriously in our church, with three services - a said Eucharist (Friday Lunchtime), one a Sung Eucharist (Friday Evening), and one a 'Lighten our Darkness' service of the word with music (Sunday Evening). At all three, names are read out from a list which people have contributed to over the last few weeks. Candles are lit in memory at the third of the services and there are refreshments, with a chance to talk to clergy and others after both evening services.

We will not be singing any special anthems, as the choir at each consists of those who are able to turn up, rather than the full choir. However, some of us will be singing at the All Souls Day Eucharist at Exeter Cathedral on the Saturday - music includes the Mass settings from the Faure Requiem and also 'Deep River' (Sephen Tanner), 'Since by Man came Death' (Handel), 'The Souls of the Righteous' (Marchant) and 'Ave Verum Corpus' (Mozart). The choir is made up of members of RSCM affiliated choirs from all over Devon.

The general public is invited to come to the service if they wish to remember departed family and friends, so if you are in the area and wish to come along to the service, it is at 4pm on 2nd November.

Posted by S. Bacchus (# 17778) on :

We're keeping the patter that I imagine is the most typical of churches in our tradition (MOTR tending towards Catholic and more traditional than not):

Low Mass and High Mass (the latter with choir and sermon) on All Saints day, two low masses and a High Mass pro defunctis (the last with choir, sermon, and absolution of graves [taking the place of the rites at the catafalque, as we don't have one]) on All Souls. Names will be read out at all three All Souls services. We don't keep the Sunday within the octave, or the eve of All Ss, with any special ceremonies. I'm happy to say that we're still one of the few parishes that observes the normal distinctions at the requiem mass: black vestments, unbleached candles, no incense until the offertory, no blessing of water and no bells at the elevations, etc (our sacristan always reminds the servers that 'there are no osculations', but we never do those any way!). It's one of the few days a year in which we might actually pass as high church!

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

Where did the 'no incense until the offertory' rule come from? Is there a theological rationale for not censing the gospel book if you do it normally?

Posted by Vade Mecum (# 17688) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Where did the 'no incense until the offertory' rule come from? Is there a theological rationale for not censing the gospel book if you do it normally?

It seems a natural way of representing the barer ceremonial appropriate to the occasion. The Offertory is the natural place for incense to reappear, since the Sacrifice must be given the greatest honour: not to incense it at an high Mass would be the wrong sort of symbol. Note also that only the celebrant is censed at the offertory, not the other ministers, so it's not really "no incense until the offerotry" so much as "incense for the Sacrifice only" (any absolutions having the character of a separate rite).

Posted by Magic Wand (# 4227) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.

It is a very strange time to be an Anglo-Catholic in Philadelphia!

S. Mark's and Good Shepherd are both having Solemn Masses for All Saints Day, while S. Clement's is having only a Sung Mass at 5:30 p.m. in their chapel, with a cantor rather than the choir. And that only after there was much hue and cry over the originally scheduled Low Mass!

The Chinese Curse, I guess?

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Where did the 'no incense until the offertory' rule come from? Is there a theological rationale for not censing the gospel book if you do it normally?

I'm sure there's all manner of theological back-explanation, but my understanding was that the requiem is a remnant of earlier forms of the Mass, and thus lacks elements added in later.

I have heard the lack of censing of the people rationalised on the grounds that no prayers for the living are offered at requiems, although IME the confession and absolution are seldom omitted when the BCP is used. Indeed in a modern context, where communicants are expected, it's not uncommon for the censing of the congregation to be retained.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

AIUI the no-censing until the offertory rule only applies to a Requiem where there is a body - in other words, a funeral: so for All Souls you can cense away as much as you like...

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
AIUI the no-censing until the offertory rule only applies to a Requiem where there is a body - in other words, a funeral: so for All Souls you can cense away as much as you like...

Not in the EF. On All Souls Day there is absolution of the dead at the end, just like a funeral, and the same rules about incensations apply.

Posted by Magic Wand (# 4227) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
AIUI the no-censing until the offertory rule only applies to a Requiem where there is a body - in other words, a funeral: so for All Souls you can cense away as much as you like...
Not in the EF. On All Souls Day there is absolution of the dead at the end, just like a funeral, and the same rules about incensations apply.

I think that in an EF Requiem without the Absolution (which is certainly permitted) the incensations are still as at a Requiem Mass for a funeral.

Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on :

All Souls tide is a special time for me, and I love it that in my part of the world the leaves are turning in color - to Autumn. I like to put an autumn display in my porchway around Halloween and I associate it with All Souls.

In preparation I like to make my own list of people to pray for each year - people who have died and past friends and family from the years. I don't want to add my long list to that in church but do wonder if I could somehow offer it without the names having to be prayed / read...

............................................

Anglo Catholic Congress books on eBay. Do bid!

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Latest update: at the 'Lighten our Darkness' service of the word on Sunday evening we will be singing the 'Kyrie' and 'In Paradisum' from the Faure Requiem.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

quote:
posted by chorister
...the 'Lighten our Darkness' service of the word on ...

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
The Chinese Curse, I guess?

Okay. I'll bite: What's the Chinese Curse?

Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:

quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
The Chinese Curse, I guess?
Okay. I'll bite: What's the Chinese Curse?

I'm guessing "May you live during interesting times."

Posted by Magic Wand (# 4227) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:

quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
The Chinese Curse, I guess?
Okay. I'll bite: What's the Chinese Curse?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=chinese+curse

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

Ceremoniar, I don't think a Roman understanding of purgatory is implied in Protestant celebrations of All Souls. At least some churches make it a day for praying for conversion of non-Christians. That is "all souls" comes to mean "everybody"

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Ceremoniar, I don't think a Roman understanding of purgatory is implied in Protestant celebrations of All Souls. At least some churches make it a day for praying for conversion of non-Christians. That is "all souls" comes to mean "everybody"

Well, I think that most here would agree that All Souls (known as Day of the Dead in some countries) focuses on the departed, not the conversion of living souls. That is entirely another subject, however worthy it may be.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

Ceremoniar is right. That's the first time I've heard Ken's bizarre re-interpretation. (You don't need to believe 'the Romish doctrine of Purgatory'; a fuzzy Anglican one does instead. But it's about the dead not the living.)

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

quote:
posted by chorister
...the 'Lighten our Darkness' service of the word on ...

To explain, different people need different types of services. So, over the weekend, we have three services where names are read out - one a Sung Eucharist, one a said Eucharist and one a more informal service with lots of tealights which can be lit in memory of those who have died. The latter is called 'Lighten our Darkness' - it seems particularly popular with bereaved families who are not that used to church. Naturally, people are given the option of attending whichever they feel most comfortable with (bereaved families are often quite sensitive at these times).

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

As I type, we have an empty coffin in our vestry, apparently to be used at this evening's Requiem Mass. (At least, I hope it's empty. The priest assures me that it is)

I'm intrigued to see how it's going to be used.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Chorister, we offer a similar range of services - this year, 9am said Eucharist on All Souls' Day with the names of the departed read out and tonight, Sunday 3 November, there's our equivalent of Lighten our Darkness, the annual Bereavement Service.

Any funeral taken in the team churches or by a member of clergy over the previous August to August (it's too near for many families in the last 3 months) are invited to the Bereavement Service. That service includes the Russian Contakion sung by the choir, and is an informal sung service, the names of those remembered read out and lighting of tealights to remember people.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
As I type, we have an empty coffin in our vestry, apparently to be used at this evening's Requiem Mass. (At least, I hope it's empty. The priest assures me that it is)

I'm intrigued to see how it's going to be used.

We had the catalfalque, as well, as it is the norm in Extraordinarm Form Requiem High Masses for All Souls. It sort of "stands in" for all of the faithful departed, and functions exactly the same as one would at a funeral Mass.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Ceremoniar is right. That's the first time I've heard Ken's bizarre re-interpretation. (You don't need to believe 'the Romish doctrine of Purgatory'; a fuzzy Anglican one does instead. But it's about the dead not the living.)

I heard a Lutheran defense of it: on Nov. 1 we give thanks for all known and unknown saints who have gone before us. On Nov. 2 we give thanks for all souls who have gone before us. Notice the emphasis on remembrance and giving thanks for their lives rather than on praying for the departed souls. In this way, it is not dissimilar to Jewish liturgy concluding with the Mourners' Kaddish, an ascription of praise.

It is perhaps noteworthy that most religious traditions have ways of expressing thanks for those who have gone before. Popular piety practically demands it. I'm not surprised that Lutherans have either conflated Nov. 1 and 2 or have picked up both the feast and the commemoration. In my own experience, All Saints (almost invariably transferred to the first Sunday in November) is extremely popular.

Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :

All Saints' is our Feast of Title, so we celebrated a Festal Eucharist in gold on Sunday morning.

At 4pm, after a half-muffled quarter peal on the bells, we celebrated a Eucharist for our "All Souls' Service". We have a classic Anglican fudge, but manage to keep everyone on speaking terms. Our incumbrance is not really of the tradition of the parish. So we keep All Souls in white [Eek!]

, with nothing that could be construed as prayer for the dead, just a vapid "remembering". I was handed this to read. But it is a Eucharist, with normal Sunday ceremonial, incense, choir, necrology (aka 'list of names'), and tealights.

All this said, it is our best-attended service after Christmas Midnight Mass. We invite funeral families, and some come back year after year. When all they've had is a 25 minute crem funeral, they can meet the same clergy playing on their own turf and be swept up into the mysterium tremendum et fascinans. I just wish we didn't preach such drivel.

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

We had a lovely All Souls Eucharist on Thursday night- many of the choir were away so we had a congregational setting and 4 hymns - including the lovely Christ Enthroned in highest heaven to the Piccardy tune. Liturgy was standard CW with a few additional prayers from elsewhere.

We used an incense pot and the congregation lit candles in sand during the Act of Remembrance as names were read out, and after the lights were dimmed we chanted a Taize chant. It was half-term so a few of the regular congregation were away, but offset by a few visitors which brought the numbers up to 140. Perhaps the most moving part was seeing people enjoying solace, silence and reflection in the candle-lit church.

Posted by Quam Dilecta (# 12541) on :

Our All Soul's observance included a Solemn Requiem with a catafalque and plenty of unbleached candles. The choir sang Rheinberger's Requiem in E-flat Major.

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
All Saints' is our Feast of Title, so we celebrated a Festal Eucharist in gold on Sunday morning.

At 4pm, after a half-muffled quarter peal on the bells, we celebrated a Eucharist for our "All Souls' Service". We have a classic Anglican fudge, but manage to keep everyone on speaking terms. Our incumbrance is not really of the tradition of the parish. So we keep All Souls in white , with nothing that could be construed as prayer for the dead, just a vapid "remembering". I was handed this to read. But it is a Eucharist, with normal Sunday ceremonial, incense, choir, necrology (aka 'list of names'), and tealights.

All this said, it is our best-attended service after Christmas Midnight Mass. We invite funeral families, and some come back year after year. When all they've had is a 25 minute crem funeral, they can meet the same clergy playing on their own turf and be swept up into the mysterium tremendum et fascinans. I just wish we didn't preach such drivel.

Isn't it usual that churches named All Saints' (and presumably All Souls') do not keep their Feasts of Title? I have been in a church called All Saints' before but they would not have kept any Feast of Title or Patronal Festival anyway....

Posted by Vulpior (# 12744) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:

quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
All Saints' is our Feast of Title, so we celebrated a Festal Eucharist in gold on Sunday morning.
Isn't it usual that churches named All Saints' (and presumably All Souls') do not keep their Feasts of Title? I have been in a church called All Saints' before but they would not have kept any Feast of Title or Patronal Festival anyway....

We are All Saints, and we keep the day (or transferred to Sunday) as the Patronal.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

The two neighbouring All Saints' Churches keep their feast of title - both CofE.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Isn't it usual that churches named All Saints' (and presumably All Souls') do not keep their Feasts of Title? I have been in a church called All Saints' before but they would not have kept any Feast of Title or Patronal Festival anyway....

Why wouldn't a church named All Saints keep its titular feast? It would be kept on that day. Now, on the other hand, a church named All Souls would not. But then again, titular feast and patronal feast may or may not be on the same day. A church named All Souls might have a patron that is not in the title of the church, and they would still keep the patronal feast.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

A dismal response to All Souls' Day in my part of the world: I couldn't find a single Anglican church that was doing an All Souls eucharist on All Souls' Day. (I may, of course, have been looking in the wrong places.) All seemed to be transferring All Saints onto the Sunday (I remember when we used to transfer festivals off Sundays!) and either ignoring All Souls altogether or turning the two days into a mish-mash best described as All Smumbles.

I consoled myself (literally, having no other way to commemorate my beloved departed) by saying the Office of the Dead.

Posted by BulldogSacristan (# 11239) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Quam Dilecta:
Our All Soul's observance included a Solemn Requiem with a catafalque and plenty of unbleached candles. The choir sang Rheinberger's Requiem in E-flat Major.

The only church in Boston that celebrated All Souls' with Rheinberger's Requiem seemed to do that on Sunday, November 3. To celebrate a Solemn Requiem on a Sunday seems. . . incorrect, to say the least. Do you know why your parish decided to do it this way?

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

We observed All Souls' on the day at our usual 930am Mass - black/silver chasuble, suitable readings (from the Roman Missal!), necrology, and a couple of hymns.

All Saints' was observed twice! On the day itself at a local block of new sheltered flats, where we have started a monthly Mass, and again on Sunday (with the same readings) at the Parish Mass - though, being half-term/Halloween season/Bonfire Night season*, a number of our young families was absent.

*Yes, I know - secular/pagan dross, but popular in this area........

Ian J.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

Sunday evening in the Octave is quite a popular time for All Souls around here, especially this year when some places seem to have balked at a solid triduum of observances.

I've been in Toronto for the past several days. On Saturday morning there was a Requiem Low Mass at St Bart's (black vestments, Lady altar, sequence said by celebrant). The cathedral did theirs at the Chapel of St James-the-Less (purple, choral but not requiem setting: Byrd's Mass for Four Voices). On Saturday evening, the choir of St Simon the Apostle sang Fauré.

St Mary Magdalene sang the Victoria requiem on Saturday morning, but St Thomas's, Huron Street, held off till Sunday night for Duruflé. St Matthias, Bellwoods, is doing it on Wednesday night.

Only the cathedral in Montréal, a liturgical law unto itself, kept the main Sunday "morning" services (the French Mass is actually at a quarter to 1 in the afternoon) as All Souls, bumping All Saints (for which they did, to their credit, have a Choral Eucharist at noon on Friday). And even then they used an actual requiem setting - Victoria's Requiem for 4 voices - unlike St Matthias, Westmount, which used some contemporary Canadian setting that mixed the requiem texts with lines of poetry deemed relevant.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Here at our little southern AC shack the All Saints/All Souls festivities were as follows:

All Saints Day: low mass at 8 am, preceded by MP, then high mass with solemn procession at 6:30 pm. choir sang Andrea Gabrieli Mass in F and John Goss 'These are they which follow the Lamb'. Hymns included 'For all the saints', 'Who are these like stars appearing' and 'Ye watchers and ye holy ones' among others (not very good attendance)
All Souls Day: low mass of requiem in the afternoon, with some unusual liturgical aberrations: to wit: violet vestments (we have black), celebrant included Gloria in excelsis, appeared to be editing the minor propers as he went along, incense was used at beginning at offertory and at consecration; blessing was given, absolutions were not said. In short, sort of a bastard child of EF & NO in Rite I language. lighter attendance than yesterday
SUNDAY: a repeat of All Saints Day: same music & hymns with alternate readings and a different preacher (good attendance)

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Isn't it usual that churches named All Saints' (and presumably All Souls') do not keep their Feasts of Title? I have been in a church called All Saints' before but they would not have kept any Feast of Title or Patronal Festival anyway....
Why wouldn't a church named All Saints keep its titular feast? It would be kept on that day. Now, on the other hand, a church named All Souls would not. But then again, titular feast and patronal feast may or may not be on the same day. A church named All Souls might have a patron that is not in the title of the church, and they would still keep the patronal feast.

I think I may have got it confused with churches named All Souls' - but in any case it's just what I heard. Also good point about patrons not in the title of churches (we are in that position, although we are not All Saints' or All Souls').

Posted by Mockingbird (# 5818) on :

All-souls Day should be scrapped.

But I have no objection to making Hallowmas a 2-day festival. [Big Grin]

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:

quote:
Originally posted by Quam Dilecta:
Our All Soul's observance included a Solemn Requiem with a catafalque and plenty of unbleached candles. The choir sang Rheinberger's Requiem in E-flat Major.
The only church in Boston that celebrated All Souls' with Rheinberger's Requiem seemed to do that on Sunday, November 3. To celebrate a Solemn Requiem on a Sunday seems. . . incorrect, to say the least. Do you know why your parish decided to do it this way?

I can't speak for Quam Dilecta, but do you suppose it might be a pastoral choice (economia to the Orthodox) to allow the Sunday-only portion of the parish to witness a profound service of which they might otherwise be completely innocent?

quote:
Originally posted by Mockingbird:
All-souls Day should be scrapped.

Would you care to tell us why?

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

All Souls celebrated Saturday evening, in black vestments. Yours truly singing the minor propers as well, including the Sequence! Ferial tone for the Lord's Prayer confused some people, who should have recognized it from Merbecke, but what can you do?

No Gloria, no Creed, no doxologies, no prayer for peace, and no blessing. Read out a list of 20-30 people by name for the intentions.

Didn't do the Absolution of the Dead; maybe next year we can scrounge up a catafalque, or at least lay the pall on the ground. It would also give us an excuse for incense, and I always like that.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
maybe next year we can scrounge up a catafalque, or at least lay the pall on the ground

Think making sets for a college rep theatre.

You can probably make do with this:
1) two straight back chairs with reasonably level chair back tops, set with the seats facing each other about a coffin's length apart,
2) a piece of plywood cut in a rectangle the size of a coffin top (by your friends at the local Home Despot), to set on top of the top edge of the chair backs, and
3) a bunch of hymnals on top of the plywood sheet set back from the edge to give the top that beveled coffiny look.

Then drape with the pall and presto-change-o!

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

In the list of those remembered on All Souls' Day, did you have any suppressed-giggle inducing names?

We had two this year: first was 'Bobo' which produced a smile; that was followed a bit later by 'Fast Eddy,' which caused a few stifled chuckles.

In fairness, I'm not sure that those submitting these names realized that they would be read aloud. And I have no problem with this, except a lingering mental picture of Fast Eddy zooming around Heaven on a Harley. [Big Grin]

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

One year we had Dick Withers. I really try hard not to laugh, because these names mean a much-missed real person to somebody, but I'm afraid that one got me beat.

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