Ship of Fools: The Last Gospel

Thread: The Last Gospel Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

I have just been assigned to be lay preacher on the first Sunday after Christmas, and the text is John 1:1-18. While beginning to wrestle with the text, I can't help but remember all the times, as a child or teenager, I heard this read as The Last Gospel, growing up in the Diocese of Chicago, back in its Biretta Belt heyday. It got me thinking about the origins of this practice (reading John 1 at the end of the service) and how common it is nowadays.

The web forum Fish Eaters tells of the Last Gospel being instituted to ensure that the celebrant was not An Heretick. (An entertaining thought, but is that true?) I assume the practice found its way into the Anglo-Catholic branch of The Episcopal Church via the Oxford Movement and then in the US via DeKoven and his compatriots. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

But principally I am interested to know how widespread is The Last Gospel today. Is it to be found in a few major A/C shrines, or is it still practiced in your average parish? I'm interested in what happens in Episcopal Churches of course, but also curious about the rest of the Anglican world, so have at it.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

I've never been in a parish that read the last gospel. Shame. It's a tradition I'd like to start.

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

Beeswax Altar, is it done in other churches in your diocese? How do you think your congregation would react if you started it?

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

I've never encountered or heard of the custom of the Last Gospel elsewhere than on the Ship.

However, if you are CofE, the In Principe should be deeply familiar. You will have heard it as the last reading of most of the Carol Services you have been to. Furthermore, our lectionary provides three sets of Principal Service readings for Christmas Day, with a direction that the set that includes Jn 1:1-14 "should be used at some point during the celebration".

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

None of the parishes in my diocese do it. We are a highish MOTR diocese but no advanced Anglo-Catholic parishes remain. I haven't been at all the parishes on a Sunday morning but I know the priests who would do it and they don't.

This was my last Sunday in one parish. In a few weeks, I'll begin at another parish in the same diocese. In the parish I'm leaving? 1/3 would like it. 1/3 would hate it. 1/3 wouldn't care one way or the other. At least that is the response I got when celebrating ad orientem. I don't know about my new parish. It has a very Anglo-Catholic history. So, some parishioners probably remember it being done. However, the last rector took them away from Anglo-Catholicism. So, I'm leery about doing anything too out of the ordinary right off the bat.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

It's a Parson's Handbook thing. Dearmer commends to the reader the habit of the priest reciting the prologue to the Gospel of John as he recesses out of the church, presumably as the choir and congregation sing a hymn.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

It will come as no surprise to you that I haven't encountered the Last Gospel at any TEC church in this diocese, including the nosebleed shrines. I suspect the Novus Ordo-ing of this diocese is probably what happened in Beeswax's diocese, too.

It seems most parishes around here, when asked, can still produce their old altar missal. Perhaps if you rummage around your own church, it could be a good object lesson, segueing into the importance of the scripture to the historical liturgy of Western Christendom. (Then again, maybe it would only appeal to the liturgy nuts and elderly...)

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
It will come as no surprise to you that I haven't encountered the Last Gospel at any TEC church in this diocese, including the nosebleed shrines. I suspect the Novus Ordo-ing of this diocese is probably what happened in Beeswax's diocese, too.

Right. At our shack, the Last Gospel went out with the "illegal" missals when the new rites leading up to the 1979 BCP started being used.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
It's a Parson's Handbook thing. Dearmer commends to the reader the habit of the priest reciting the prologue to the Gospel of John as he recesses out of the church, presumably as the choir and congregation sing a hymn.

That doesn't surprise me, being essentially what's done at St Thomas's, Huron Street in Toronto. I only know that it occurs because one of the clergy mentioned it to me: the timing usually works out so that the genuflexion occurs just after arriving in the vestry, he said.

I suppose it's the mirror image of the practice of saying the preparation as a server devotion out of sight where they can't scare the horses. (At our shack it's done under the entrance hymn, before the introit, and the SMs can be seen turning to one another at the confiteor).

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

The vicar in my home parish (a Prayer Book Catholic in a MOTR church) did it in the 1960s. My anglo-catholic theological college had given up doing it some time in the 1950s I think.

There is one church in this diocese where I am pretty sure it happens regularly, and another where it was dropped under the last incumbent (maybe 20 years ago) and has been sporadically revived since (i.e. the vicar reads it when he feels like it).

As part of the Liturgical Commission's aim to bring back all sorts of frills and furbelows into C of E liturgy, Common Worship now suggests a variety of 'last gospels' for some celebrations. I can't see the point myself. What's the dismissal for?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Agree with Angloid.

The last Gospel was fairly standard in churches, many of them 'lower' than anglo-catholic.

Liturgical reforms cleared out such clutter.

If people want to bring it back, then perhaps we bring back humeral veils for subdeacons (which would mean having to reinvent subdeacons too), chasuble-lifting during censing and elevation.

Gosh, we could even bring back some C of E stuff like the ten commandments and the collect for Brenda, comminations and thanksgiving for Guy Fawkes.

(And I'd put money on some folk here suggesting that they would all be very good ideas to implement now.)

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

The last gospel was the last element of the EF added to the Roman Missal. In the middle ages it was recited quietly by the priest on his way back to the sacristy. After the Council of Trent, it was added to the Order of Mass when the missal was codified and standardized by St. Pius V in 1570. It remained there until 1965, when it was dropped in the first round of liturgical reforms related to Vatican II. It continues to be used in EF celebrations, as we use the 1962 edition of the Roman Missal.

It made its way unofficially into Anglican liturgies as part of the ritualistic movement of the late 1800s. It appeared in the first edition of the Knott missal in 1912, and in the Anglican Missal of 1921, and the American Missal of 1931, and all subsequent editions.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
It's a Parson's Handbook thing. Dearmer commends to the reader the habit of the priest reciting the prologue to the Gospel of John as he recesses out of the church, presumably as the choir and congregation sing a hymn.

Quite the reverse. he wrote:

quote:
In the Middle Ages the priest said the first fourteen verses of St. John's Gospel as he returned. There is of course no need for him now to do so, since no such thing is appointed in our Liturgy. Mr. Cuthbert Atchley has shown that the use of this Gospel had a superstitious origin, having been counted as a charm. It would be quite unprincipled for the priest to say it at the altar, both because only the appointed service may be thus said, and because it is ordered in all the English books to be said going back. In redeundo dicat Evangelium In Principio' (Mis. Sar., col. 629). It is still thus used in some churches abroad, and in some within the sacristy itself : many of the monastic uses omitted this Gospel (Maskell, Anc. Lit., p. 204 ; Mis. Westin., col. 525 ; Atchley in S. P. E. S. Trans., iv, pp. 161-76).

p. 353 The Parson's Handbook

Posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras (# 11274) on :

We have the last gospel at St Clement's Philadelphia. I think the only other place I've encountered it was at the end of low masses at Mount Calvary Baltimore (now an Ordinariate parish) back around 1980. They may use it at Resurrection, Manhattan (can't recall now). Ascension and St Agnes DC don't do it, but I may have heard it there during the late '70s/early '80s.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

Saint Dearmer was given to changing his mind a lot. From the first edition,

"There [167] may be no objection to the priest saying the first fourteen verses of St. John’s Gospel to himself as he goes out [after Holy Communion]."

Posted by PaulTH* (# 320) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
After the Council of Trent, it was added to the Order of Mass when the missal was codified and standardized by St. Pius V in 1570. It remained there until 1965, when it was dropped in the first round of liturgical reforms related to Vatican II.

That they could just drop something after almost 400 years of constant use shows the level of chutzpah that Annibale Bugnini and his team were willing to allow themselves. It remains part of Mass celebrated in the EF, and is part of the English Missal as used by the Anglican Catholic Church. I am delighted to see it reinstated in the Ordinarite Use unvelied last week.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Thanks - i stand corrected - I have the 1st edition but i have put it in a safe space so as to make as lot of money out of it one day! Meanwhile using a later edn.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
After the Council of Trent, it was added to the Order of Mass when the missal was codified and standardized by St. Pius V in 1570. It remained there until 1965, when it was dropped in the first round of liturgical reforms related to Vatican II.
That they could just drop something after almost 400 years of constant use shows the level of chutzpah that Annibale Bugnini and his team were willing to allow themselves. It remains part of Mass celebrated in the EF, and is part of the English Missal as used by the Anglican Catholic Church. I am delighted to see it reinstated in the Ordinarite Use unvelied last week.

Agreed. Naturally, it is used at my FSSP parish, in Latin, of course.

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
It seems most parishes around here, when asked, can still produce their old altar missal. Perhaps if you rummage around your own church, it could be a good object lesson ...

Ha! There are several dusty old leather-bound books on the top shelves of the sacristy, but I would have to get the sexton's ladder in order to reach them, so I will take the safer route of asking a long-ago Rector's daughter who is still a parishioner here. Seeing as how our church has the oldest free-standing altar in the diocese, I tend to doubt the Last Gospel was used here; but then again, several posters have pointed out that it wasn't exclusively a High-Church practice.

quote:
... segueing into the importance of the scripture to the historical liturgy of Western Christendom. (Then again, maybe it would only appeal to the liturgy nuts and elderly...)

Actually the segue I was considering was the genuflection at "And the Word was made flesh." Even as a child, understanding almost nothing of the passage's deep theology, that liturgical punctuation (if you will) made me understand that this statement was of profound importance.

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

Forgive the DP, but I would appreciate clarification on this: For those of you who have recent experience of The Last Gospel, is it read aloud to the people, or is it said by the priest on the way back to the sacristy?

This is what confuses me about the bit I linked from the Fish Eaters forum in the OP (and why I asked if it was true): if the purpose of using John 1 after the mass was to assure the faithful that the celebrant believed in the divinity of Christ, wouldn't it be necessary for the priest to read it aloud? A public demonstration of good faith, if you will? Reciting it to oneself after the service seems more an act of personal piety. Can anyone shed light on it being a public versus a private practice?

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
Forgive the DP, but I would appreciate clarification on this: For those of you who have recent experience of The Last Gospel, is it read aloud to the people, or is it said by the priest on the way back to the sacristy?

This is what confuses me about the bit I linked from the Fish Eaters forum in the OP (and why I asked if it was true): if the purpose of using John 1 after the mass was to assure the faithful that the celebrant believed in the divinity of Christ, wouldn't it be necessary for the priest to read it aloud? A public demonstration of good faith, if you will? Reciting it to oneself after the service seems more an act of personal piety. Can anyone shed light on it being a public versus a private practice?

Sarum practice seems to have been to recite it as a private devotion on the way back to the sacristy. But in the EF of the RC Mass (for at least the past 500 years), it's an invariable feature of the public liturgy, immediately following the blessing.

I will use it on feasts which commemorate events in the life of Jesus (Christmas, Circumcision, Purification/Presentation, etc), but tend not to do it at normal Sunday celebrations.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
perhaps we bring back humeral veils for subdeacons

some of us never got rid of it!

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LQ:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
perhaps we bring back humeral veils for subdeacons
some of us never got rid of it!

Indeed not!

Posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras (# 11274) on :

At St Clement's Philadelphia, the Last Gospel is part of the formal liturgy said at the altar. My experience of it following a simple said Mass 30+ years ago at Mount Calvary Baltimore was that the celebrant started the first few words of it at the altar but continued audibly as he departed for the sacristy. I can't recall now so many years later if at Mount Calvary the celebrant publically announced, "The beginning of the Holy Gospel according to John", with the people thus responding with the Gloria Tibi. Probably not, since the whole was not read out at the altar. In the EF or various Anglican missal uses, the celebrant announces the Gospel, the people respond with the usual Gloria Tibi, and then at the end the people respond not with Laus Tibi, but instead with Deo Gratias, at which point the Mass is entirely finished (though there may then be after-Mass prayers such as the Angelus).

Posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras (# 11274) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LQ:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
perhaps we bring back humeral veils for subdeacons
some of us never got rid of it!

I personally find humeral veils for the subdeacon during the Canon to be excessively fussy, and though I understand the antiquity of the symbolism dating back to Patristic times and the visible unity of the Bishop's Mass with those of his suburban Presbyters, and the function of Deacons as go-betweens in these celebrations, I think this symbolism is now so obscure as to be essentially meaningless for the vast majority, as well as irrelevant to the circumstances that have actually existed in the Church for most of its existence: we haven't taken particles from the Bread consecrated by the Bishop to all the outlying diocesan congregations for a very long time indeed! Nor would that really even be a practical possibility most places.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

In my present parish the LG is read at the 'Gospel' horn of the altar (complete with genuflection) at all daily masses. It is not at present read at the Sunday masses (1 low, 1 high). The normal parish usage is Anglican Service Book (also known as the Rosemont book).

In my previous cathedral parish in KY the Bishop insisted that the Prologue to John's Gospel (he wouldn't have called it 'Last Gospel, I don't think) be read at the conclusion of the Christmas Midnight Mass, actually after the Retiring Hymn, the Gospel of the Mass having been shepherds/angels/etc.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
Forgive the DP, but I would appreciate clarification on this: For those of you who have recent experience of The Last Gospel, is it read aloud to the people, or is it said by the priest on the way back to the sacristy?

This is what confuses me about the bit I linked from the Fish Eaters forum in the OP (and why I asked if it was true): if the purpose of using John 1 after the mass was to assure the faithful that the celebrant believed in the divinity of Christ, wouldn't it be necessary for the priest to read it aloud? A public demonstration of good faith, if you will? Reciting it to oneself after the service seems more an act of personal piety. Can anyone shed light on it being a public versus a private practice?

As an FSSP parish that celebrates the EF exclusively, the last gospel is the last portion of the Mass texts at every Mass, High and Low. Since the entire Mass is in Latin, as it was for most of the Western Church's history, the "public demonstration of good faith" to which you averred does not really come into the picture in the way that the people hearing it implies.The gospel is part of the Order of Mass, in theis printed in the missal as such, appears in people's missals, and it is recited. It is not really audible beyond those immediately in the priest's vicinity, and it is in Latin. But its presence at that seemingly odd end-point was placed there as a testimony to the incarnation, which was something that the Church felt was needed, in light of the Reformation, and the growing lack of public focus on incarnational theology.

Its audibility and intelligibility to those in the church is not the point; its presence as a text required at every Mass, is.

Posted by marsupial. (# 12458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
. Ascension and St Agnes DC don't do it, but I may have heard it there during the late '70s/early '80s.

I heard it at Ascension and St Agnes as part of their normal Sunday mass in 1992.

As I recall they had a significant personnel change sometime after that.

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
... the celebrant announces the Gospel, the people respond with the usual Gloria Tibi, and then at the end the people respond not with Laus Tibi, but instead with Deo Gratias, at which point the Mass is entirely finished.

That is exactly how I remember it from my childhood at St John's Flossmoor (IL): "... full of grace and truth. / Thanks be to God." And I'm pretty sure it was read from the north end of the altar. The service was straight-up 1928 BCP.

Posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras (# 11274) on :

Yes, from the north (gospel)side of the altar. One has an altar card with the text on that side, if one uses altar cards.

Posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras (# 11274) on :

quote:
Originally posted by marsupial.:

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
. Ascension and St Agnes DC don't do it, but I may have heard it there during the late '70s/early '80s.
I heard it at Ascension and St Agnes as part of their normal Sunday mass in 1992.

As I recall they had a significant personnel change sometime after that.

Sadly, at my most recent visit around Labor Day of this year, Ascension and St Agnes also seemed to have done away with the Asperges, which is a very new development there. Yet they continue to have the subdeacon in humeral veil during the Canon of the Mass. There seems to have been a lot of gradual tweaking of things. Hard to know how it will develop further.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Sadly, at my most recent visit around Labor Day of this year, Ascension and St Agnes also seemed to have done away with the Asperges, which is a very new development there. Yet they continue to have the subdeacon in humeral veil during the Canon of the Mass. There seems to have been a lot of gradual tweaking of things. Hard to know how it will develop further.

Whereas at Ascension, Chicago, we've got the Asperges (during the first hymn; no use of texts, though) but have no humeral veil on the subdeacon nor saying of the Last Gospel (unless some celebrants do that silently on the way out; I doubt it).

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
... the celebrant announces the Gospel, the people respond with the usual Gloria Tibi, and then at the end the people respond not with Laus Tibi, but instead with Deo Gratias, at which point the Mass is entirely finished.
That is exactly how I remember it from my childhood at St John's Flossmoor (IL): "... full of grace and truth. / Thanks be to God."

Except for being in Latin, this is how I hear it too when visiting the parish where I was confirmed.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

Next-to-last picture is the last gospel at Solemn Mass. web page

Posted by Thurible (# 3206) on :

The Last Gospel is, I fear, one of those things that proves there is a liturgical minimalist within me.

Thurible

[deleted duplicate post]

[ 16. October 2013, 23:38: Message edited by: seasick ]

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
The Last Gospel is, I fear, one of those things that proves there is a liturgical minimalist within me.

Thurible

It just proves there's a liturgical literalist in me. Once you've told people to go in peace, they (and you) should actually go.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

In most Episcopal churches, the congregation is dismissed after the recession.

Posted by pererin (# 16956) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hart:

quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
The Last Gospel is, I fear, one of those things that proves there is a liturgical minimalist within me.

Thurible
It just proves there's a liturgical literalist in me. Once you've told people to go in peace, they (and you) should actually go.

I think it's fairly harmless. It could be done after a low-church fashion, even though it doesn't tend to be. What I dislike about it is the way it curtails the passage after v14, rather than v18.

Posted by Thurible (# 3206) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:

[deleted duplicate post]

Sorry about that. It would seem, going on another post I submitted from my phone, that something dodgy's going on somewhere between my phone, my browser, and this website. Hmm.

Thurible

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

No worries. I had noticed you seemed to be having issues at the moment... we had a stream of them the other day - I think 4 or so at intervals.

Posted by Hooker's Trick (# 89) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Sadly, at my most recent visit around Labor Day of this year, Ascension and St Agnes also seemed to have done away with the Asperges, which is a very new development there. Yet they continue to have the subdeacon in humeral veil during the Canon of the Mass. There seems to have been a lot of gradual tweaking of things. Hard to know how it will develop further.

I haven't been to Sunday mass at A&SA for a long time -- the Last Gospel is definitely not said there at weekday masses. I suspect it went the way of birettas some years ago (in what was described to me as an attempt to make the ritual there "less anachronistic.")

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
(in what was described to me as an attempt to make the ritual there "less anachronistic.")

For some reason, this just makes me [Killing me]

. I needed it. Thank you!

[ 21. October 2013, 22:00: Message edited by: Olaf ]

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

In this video from St John's, Detroit, you can see the procession forming as the sacred ministers attend to the Last Gospel at the altar.

Posted by Thurible (# 3206) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Sadly, at my most recent visit around Labor Day of this year, Ascension and St Agnes also seemed to have done away with the Asperges, which is a very new development there. Yet they continue to have the subdeacon in humeral veil during the Canon of the Mass. There seems to have been a lot of gradual tweaking of things. Hard to know how it will develop further.
I haven't been to Sunday mass at A&SA for a long time -- the Last Gospel is definitely not said there at weekday masses. I suspect it went the way of birettas some years ago (in what was described to me as an attempt to make the ritual there "less anachronistic.")

Post more.

Thurible

Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on :

It's been half a century or so, but i seem to recall that in the pre-Vatican 2 RC Church, the Last Gospel was used EXCEPT at solemn high masses.

Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :

Not so. I am serving as deacon at a Solemn Mass in the presence of the Bishop at the throne in the Extraordinary Form tomorrow and the liturgical books all have the Last a Gospel in.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
It's been half a century or so, but i seem to recall that in the pre-Vatican 2 RC Church, the Last Gospel was used EXCEPT at solemn high masses.

Nope. At Solemn Mass the subdeacon holds the last gospel card for the celebrant.
http://rickmk.com/picturepro/displayimage.php?album=15&pos=65

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

Tomorrow is Una Voce's big annual Christ the King do so I'll be sure to pay particular attention and report back! I seem to recall, though, that it's a direct segue from the postcommunion to the Procession and Benediction of the MBS, and the Last Gospel is pre-empted. Fortescue aficionados will, I trust, correct me.

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:

quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
It's been half a century or so, but i seem to recall that in the pre-Vatican 2 RC Church, the Last Gospel was used EXCEPT at solemn high masses.
Nope. At Solemn Mass the subdeacon holds the last gospel card for the celebrant.
http://rickmk.com/picturepro/displayimage.php?album=15&pos=65

Is it possible it was read by the sacred ministers while some sort of postlude was playing over it? Or is malik just misremembering (as we all so often do!)

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :

In the Tridentine rite Ite,missa est (the dismissal) preceded the blessing and was followed always by the recitation at the Gospel side of the Last Gospel.The Gospel was,however, not sung even if the Mass was a Missa cantata,nor would incense have been used even if it was at other parts of the Mass.The faithful would stand to hear the Gospel and genuflect with the priest at the words 'Et caro factum est'.
What Malik is possibly confusing is/was the recitation of the 'Leonine prayers'(for the liberty and exaltation of Holy Mother Church) in the vernacular at the end of each Low Mass,but which were omitted at the end of a Missa Cantata.
The blessing was given after the dismissal as it was originally the blessing given by the bishop as he went through the church after Mass.
The reform of the Roman rite discarded the recitation of the Last Gospel as well as the prayers ordered by pope Leo XIII and put the blessing before the dismissal.
The purpose of the last Gospel was ,like the recitation of the Angelus,to remind the faithful of the importance of the Incarnation. On very few days a different Last Gospel was read - e.g. on Christmas Day when this same Gospel was read during the Third Mass of Christmas.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:

quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
It's been half a century or so, but i seem to recall that in the pre-Vatican 2 RC Church, the Last Gospel was used EXCEPT at solemn high masses.
Nope. At Solemn Mass the subdeacon holds the last gospel card for the celebrant.
http://rickmk.com/picturepro/displayimage.php?album=15&pos=65
Is it possible it was read by the sacred ministers while some sort of postlude was playing over it? Or is malik just misremembering (as we all so often do!)

In practice, the last gospel at a High Mass, be it Sung or Solemn, is not audible to the congregation. Soemtimes there might already be music playing over it, yes.

Since there are now a couple hundred venues in the U.S. and Canada that celebrate the EF Mass every Sunday, the last gospel is being read with increased frequency. Still only a tiny percentage of the total number of Masses, to be sure, but a consistently growing number. [Angel]

Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :

Just a small correction; the genuflection at the last gospel is at the words of, "Et Verbum Caro Factum Est".

I quote from memory, but I am pretty sure that is correct, because I go occasionally to two churches where these words are prominently displayed behind the high altar.

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :

Sorry ,EFF, to miss out Verbum.
Indeed it should be 'Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis' (And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us )

Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
Sorry ,EFF, to miss out Verbum.
Indeed it should be 'Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis' (And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us )

Thanks Forthview for completing the sentence (in Latin) in that verse.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
Sorry ,EFF, to miss out Verbum.
Indeed it should be 'Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis' (And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us )

True, but the genuflection is intended only for the words ET VERBUM CARO FACTUM EST, which are always capitalized.

Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on :

I think it was indeed the Leonine prayers I was thinking of, Forthview.

In my youth I rarely got to see a solemn mass or even a missa cantata, which would have been my preference, budding ecclesiantic that I was even then. But my parents preferred to go to the latest Sunday mass which would have been noon in those days and was always a low mass. (That was in the days of Sunday masses on the hour between 7 or 8AM and noon.)

BTW I seem to recall that the Last Gospel was always silently read.

[ 30. October 2013, 00:44: Message edited by: malik3000 ]

Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :

I've heard it a few times and have read it a few times during weekday Masses of Xmas. It's one of those things I would like to see come back.

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