Ship of Fools: Augustine and the Prayer of Oblation

Thread: Augustine and the Prayer of Oblation Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by northender (# 9374) on :

"And here we offer and present unto thee, O Lord, ourselves, our souls and bodies..."

Did Augustine say "you are with the bread and the wine on the altar", or something similar? And if he did say it, where can we find it?

Only if you happen to know already, do not go to any great trouble.

Thanks in advance or your help.

Laurence

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

Is this quote the one you are looking for?

quote:
So how can bread be his body? And what about the cup? How can it (or what it contains) be his blood?" My friends, these realities are called sacraments because in them one thing is seen, while another is grasped. What is seen is a mere physical likeness; what is grasped bears spiritual fruit. So now, if you want to understand the body of Christ, listen to the Apostle Paul speaking to the faithful: "You are the body of Christ, member for member." [1 Cor. 12.27] If you, therefore, are Christ's body and members, it is your own mystery that is placed on the Lord's table! It is your own mystery that you are receiving! You are saying "Amen" to what you are: your response is a personal signature, affirming your faith. When you hear "The body of Christ", you reply "Amen." Be a member of Christ's body, then, so that your "Amen" may ring true! But what role does the bread play? We have no theory of our own to propose here; listen, instead, to what Paul says about this sacrament: "The bread is one, and we, though many, are one body." [1 Cor. 10.17] Understand and rejoice: unity, truth, faithfulness, love. "One bread," he says. What is this one bread? Is it not the "one body," formed from many? Remember: bread doesn't come from a single grain, but from many. When you received exorcism, you were "ground." When you were baptized, you were "leavened." When you received the fire of the Holy Spirit, you were "baked." Be what you see; receive what you are.

Posted by northender (# 9374) on :

Dear Mama,
Thanks for that quote, it must be the nearest thing to the badly remembered bit that I mentioned.

Laurence

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

Whoa. It makes me think better of Augustine.

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

Our rector adds the line "Be what you see; receive what you are" following "The gifts of God for the people of God." Since Augustine is our church's patron, I think it's especially nice.

Posted by Joan Rasch (# 49) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
Our rector adds the line "Be what you see; receive what you are" following "The gifts of God for the people of God." Since Augustine is our church's patron, I think it's especially nice.

Much the same is done at the SSJE chapel* for the invitation to Communion:
"Behold who you are."
"May we become what we receive"

If the presider uses "The gifts of God..." form instead, the congregation immediately responds "Thanks be to God."

cheers from Boston /Joan

*Society of St John the Evangelist, Cambridge, MA (historically also known as 'The Cowley Fathers')

Posted by northender (# 9374) on :

Looking through my box of writing paper last night I found some sermon notes for Corpus Christi from at least 20 years ago, with a quote from "The Shape of the Liturgy". Awake betimes this morning I thought The Shape might be the place to find the direct quote, and so it was.

Page 118: 'There you are upon the table', says S. Augustine to the newly confirmed communicants at the Easter liturgy, 'there you are in the chalice.' From sermon 229.

Which is missing from my incomplete set of "The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers", but an internet search provides the whole paragraph as:

"You...have now come, in the name of the Christ, into the Lord's cup, so to say; and there you are on the table, and there you are in the cup. You are this together with us; we all take this together, all drink together, because we all live together."

Posted by hugorune (# 17793) on :

What does Augustine mean by 'exorcism' in that context? Is that something the early church was doing, or is it a confusion of language?

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

Before baptism prayers of exorcism a said to avert the influence of evil spirits. You'll come across such prayers in the old Roman Rite and in the Byzantine Rite and in, no doubt, all the other ancient rites.

Posted by american piskie (# 593) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Before baptism prayers of exorcism a said to avert the influence of evil spirits. You'll come across such prayers in the old Roman Rite and in the Byzantine Rite and in, no doubt, all the other ancient rites.

Surely it lingers in the modern C of E texts?

May almighty God deliver you from the powers of darkness, ...

A bit less exciting, I agree, than the liturgical spitting (on the devils?) of the Orthodox.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

The reason I didn't mention the Anglican Rite is because I'm unfamiliar with it, that's all.

Posted by FCB (# 1495) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Before baptism prayers of exorcism a said to avert the influence of evil spirits. You'll come across such prayers in the old Roman Rite and in the Byzantine Rite and in, no doubt, all the other ancient rites.

It's also in the modern Roman Rite, though, alas, it is optional. I always use it.

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