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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Street preaching in the 21st century?
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LucyP
Shipmate
# 10476
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Posted
I was walking through a city centre recently when I passed a man with a megaphone, informing sinners that they would be going to hell unless they repented. I paid little attention, just as when I had passed the Jehovah's Witnesses stand, and when the charity muggers had tried to catch my attention by greeting me like a long lost friend.
And yet, as I walked on, I mused: is there a message that could be effectively preached on the streets in this day and age? (not that I would want to be a street preacher under any circumstances.) It's no secret that many passers by have troubles in their lives: difficult relationships, employment issues, past wounds, overloaded schedules, impossible demands placed upon them. Could an echo of the voice which cried out “Come unto me, all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest” point any of them in a direction that leads to healing? Or is street preaching of limited effectiveness for convincing anyone of anything, no matter what the message, and vastly inferior to more relational forms of reaching people?
It seems that Jesus never had any trouble attracting and keeping an audience's attention, though not all of those became loyal followers. The preaching-to-unconverted-groups in Acts often seems aimed at a particular audience with a background level of understanding in common (such as those attending the Jewish synagogue, or alternatively the philosophers on the Areopagus). Is street preaching more likely to be effective when there is a uniform culture, so that the message can be appropriately targeted? Do any shipmates have experience of cultures where it “works”?
Posts: 235 | From: my sanctuary | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I wonder if it worked better when even the largest cities had tiny populations compared to ours, and people tended to know one another, be intermarried, etc.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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HughWillRidmee
Shipmate
# 15614
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Posted
I suspect that your megaphonic nuisance, like those who wave "John 3:16" placards at sporting events, is so far out of touch with those he's shouting at that his efforts are likely to be, on balance, counter-productive. If you wish to sell people something through fear it helps if the fear you seek to maximise has some relationship to your target's reality; attracting ridicule is not a sales technique I've ever heard recommended.
Perhaps this is why so many apologists for the various branches of Christianity downplay religion and make great play of their (often very real) social programmes. There's more chance of sneaking religion in under the radar if it's wrapped in niceness (or even better,
fun* )
rather than strident belligerence.
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The danger to society is not merely that it should believe wrong things.. but that it should become credulous, and lose the habit of testing things and inquiring into them...
W. K. Clifford, "The Ethics of Belief" (1877)
Posts: 894 | From: Middle England | Registered: Apr 2010
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listener
Apprentice
# 15770
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Posted
Some year ago a group of fundies from a small church used to hold a session downtown on a busy shopping Friday night. It was rare that anyone stayed to listen for more than five minutes, and the speaker usually went on for a half hour apparently hypnotized by the sound of his own voice and was unable to notice that no one at the conclusion had heard any of the lead-in. On the other hand, a good hymn session would attract attention – more SA bands would be welcomed!
Posts: 31 | From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2010
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
During the summer our SA band goes out into the main pedestrianised shopping centre for about 20 munites. We have a decent PA system rather than a megaphone so that our voices are not raised and sound totally normal.
We play a carefully-chosen mixture of modern songs and well-known hymns - Praise my Soul, Amazing Grace, O happy day, etc.
The speaking is basically a few Bible texts with little comments. People are given a booklet with the songs in them and the Bible verses we use - including the Come to me all you who labour...
Some people sit and listen, others stand, most walk past. We give out small books and the Salvation Army paper. Some lovely conversations are had.
It lasts 20 muinutes and then we disappear again.
Very low key.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LucyP:
Do any shipmates have experience of cultures where it “works”?
<Nervously raises hand>
Quite some time ago now, I used to go on teams with Open Air Campaigners in France. Sketchboard evangelism could be very effective in drawing and holding a crowd and getting into conversations about the Gospel afterwards. Decades later, I still feel a certain sense of satisfaction walking past various street corners in Paris and elsewhere thinking "I preached the gospel here once".
I think the main key is for passersby to be put in a situation in which the means of presentation and the way one starts conversation with them are something they will feel comfortable with.
(At the opposite extreme, I well remember a megaphone-wielding bunch at an apparently empty English bus station at what was presumably the divinely appointed hour one Sunday afternoon. The atmosphere was much more one of a police siege than preaching the Gospel. I think people were boarding buses to just about anywhere rather than stay within earshot).
There are many reasons I've stopped doing this (although I still have two sketchboards in my garage). I'm less into method-based evangelism in general these days, but in addition, the authorities round here are increasingly trying to sanitise public space completely (and many plazas etc. are now private), so it seems like a fight not worth having compared to more socially acceptable means of evangelism.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Chocoholic
Shipmate
# 4655
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Posted
I think we tend to try and avoid anyone we don't know (or maybe sometimes those we do too ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif) ) talking to us or engaging with us when we are out and about. Even eye contact on a London tube train can make people feel uncomfortable.
I don't know if this tendency varies in different cultures but wonder if this adds to the problems of the street preachers aim.
Posts: 773 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
During the summer our SA band goes out into the main pedestrianised shopping centre for about 20 munites. We have a decent PA system rather than a megaphone so that our voices are not raised and sound totally normal.
We play a carefully-chosen mixture of modern songs and well-known hymns - Praise my Soul, Amazing Grace, O happy day, etc.
The speaking is basically a few Bible texts with little comments. People are given a booklet with the songs in them and the Bible verses we use - including the Come to me all you who labour...
Some people sit and listen, others stand, most walk past. We give out small books and the Salvation Army paper. Some lovely conversations are had.
It lasts 20 muinutes and then we disappear again.
Very low key.
I think the SA being well-known and having a good reputation helps here. Conversely, the JWs having a reputation for being an annoyance probably hinders them. I doubt they care though.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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LucyP
Shipmate
# 10476
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Posted
Thanks for all those interesting contributions.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I wonder if it worked better when even the largest cities had tiny populations compared to ours, and people tended to know one another, be intermarried, etc.
That's consistent with sociologist Rodney Stark's theories of Christianity/religion spreading via social networks. However I think an aversion to loud street preaching in the modern world is unlikely to be an urban phenomenon. My cousins live in a small town with lots of relational interconnections, but most of the cohort they went to church with as children have dropped out over the years, and are as indifferent or hostile to Christianity as any city dweller.
quote:
Originally posted by HughWillRidmee
I suspect that your megaphonic nuisance, like those who wave "John 3:16" placards at sporting events, is so far out of touch with those he's shouting at that his efforts are likely to be, on balance, counter-productive. If you wish to sell people something through fear it helps if the fear you seek to maximise has some relationship to your target's reality; attracting ridicule is not a sales technique I've ever heard recommended.
Yes, no matter what the message, efforts to persuade can be effective, counterproductive, or somewhere in between. Simply proclaiming a message out on the street is not necessarily harmful, but the shouting, negativity and fear inducement all are.
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog
During the summer our SA band goes out into the main pedestrianised shopping centre for about 20 minutes.
The SA still has a good reputation in most areas, thanks to all the practical work it does in the community, thus (even without the music) passers-by are much less threatened by their street presence compared to a man with a megaphone preaching hellfire (did William Booth preach hellfire & repentance back in the day?). So they are definitely an example of how to "do street preaching" without causing offence - back it up with endless good works!
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus
Quite some time ago now, I used to go on teams with Open Air Campaigners in France. Sketchboard evangelism could be very effective in drawing and holding a crowd and getting into conversations about the Gospel afterwards. Decades later, I still feel a certain sense of satisfaction walking past various street corners in Paris and elsewhere thinking "I preached the gospel here once".
Oh yes, I knew some people who were involved in sketchboard evangelism in Europe about 10 years ago - not sure if they're still doing that. I remember thinking at the time they were very brave!
And your post triggered another memory - visiting Ephesus on a secular tour, and being asked by another Christian lady (who had seen me reading my Bible on the bus) to read Acts 19 aloud at the entrance to the site (while we queued for tickets or something.) After I'd finished, my companion said another man in the queue had been paying close attention, while trying to look as though he wasn't listening. I had never before felt such a sense of the ultimate reality and transcendence of the word, as I did when reading that story aloud in the place where (I believe) it took place, and wondered if preachers get a similar high from good preaching - or even (if they have the personality) from any preaching (and the dangers of that are well shown in Elmer Gantry.)
Posts: 235 | From: my sanctuary | Registered: Sep 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
It's a Market Place thing, isn't it?
I think there's more mileage in the busking or short street drama approach. Also, I know folks who offer to pray for passers by. Not gratuitous approaches. They set up a station in a Market Square which offers prayer on request. Most folks just pass by, but some don't. Their choice. Seems OK.
Plus I like the street pastor approach which can often involve helping Saturday night clubbers to get home safely, not fall into a river and drown (this has happened) .
A good friend of ours worked as a night club pastor with club permission. She spent a fair bit of late night time in A & E, a lot more listening to sob stories, often in the women's loo. Much liked and respected, she'd earned the right to speak, didn't abuse it. Said she liked clubbers. On the other hand, a lot of uptight Christians made her nose bleed. Very committed in her faith.
I favour those sorts of approaches basically because they respect autonomy and the reality of on the ground situations. Not much given to placards and hitting strangers with words of warning. They pass by on the other side, shaking their heads. Know what's coming.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Saul the Apostle
Shipmate
# 13808
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Posted
My main comment is similar to Barnabas' so I won't repeat what he said! I agree with that POV.
One point, however, is that even if the message is a little odd, the message is allowed to be conveyed , they should have the right to speak it out.
Often the traditional street preacher will repel people. I would question if that is the right approach for our era. But would defend their right to preach and to state their views/beliefs.
Recently , there has, it seems, been cases where Christian preachers have been hassled by Police, for preaching. This IMHO , seems a bad direction to be heading in as a society.
Saul
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
Posts: 1772 | From: unsure | Registered: Jun 2008
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
I'd be curious to hear what others would think of other religions/sects doing this.
How about - to take a very extreme and random point - the Church of Satan or Al Qaeda firebrand preaching on a soapbox?
Personally I can't stand the sound of a Salvation Army band. I think they're barely tolerated by almost everyone, religious or not.
That doesn't seem to be borne out by the response I'm afraid. Don't forget, a lot of towns have brass bands, Salvation or otherwise, and they are popular.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
I'd be curious to hear what others would think of other religions/sects doing this.
How about - to take a very extreme and random point - the Church of Satan or Al Qaeda firebrand preaching on a soapbox?
Personally I can't stand the sound of a Salvation Army band. I think they're barely tolerated by almost everyone, religious or not.
It wouldn't bother me. But then, I'm an American, and your example is pretty much the cliche always used to illustrate the First Amendment(freedom of speech etc).
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
]That doesn't seem to be borne out by the response I'm afraid. Don't forget, a lot of towns have brass bands, Salvation or otherwise, and they are popular.
Some places like them, in most they're barely tolerated. Some places actively hate them.
Did 'these places' have a vote??
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
Hum. Well, let's see - wasn't it Worthing in Sussex where there was a famous battle?
Oooh, you'll have to enlighten me.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
Hum. Well, let's see - wasn't it Worthing in Sussex where there was a famous battle?
Oooh, you'll have to enlighten me.
As pydseybare says, Google is your friend.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
ohhhhh - LOL ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I thought you meant now!
Yes, the opposition skeleton army is very much a part of SA folklore.
But it wasn't the band they were offended by, the skeleton army was really the 'militant wing' of the brewing trade. We were gaining so many converts who were giving up the drink that they were losing business and so they paid this 'army' to attack us.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Gwalchmai
Shipmate
# 17802
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Posted
I find street preachers a complete turn-off and a very bad advert for Christianity. In the city where I work, they have a stall festooned with bible texts. Occasionally the local Muslims set up a stall next door - I don't know how Muslims view Islamic street preachers - I will enquire.
Surely the best advertisement for Christianity is actions, not words. Hence the success of the Salvation Army and Street Pastors mentioned up-thread. Preaching hell-fire and damnation will never convince anybody to turn to Christ - the words are not accompanied by any demonstration of Christian love in action. The great popularity of Pope Francis is because he is seen to practise what he preaches - the actions match the words.
Posts: 133 | From: England | Registered: Aug 2013
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
LucyP
I do feel a certain awkwardness about street preachers with their strident message. Let's be honest; on this website very few of us are going to be champions of hellfire preaching on the streets.
But OTOH, I'm glad these people are there. This is partly to do with my love of the urban environment; when I see groups of ordinary people daring to interact with the public I feel that's part of the energy and colour of city life. I don't like it when public spaces are left devoid of character.
In my city we also see Muslim proselytisers, usually in groups, handing out leaflets from trestle tables. This makes sense because the inner city areas have such a strong Muslim presence. I'm curious about the Christian ones, though. The regulars seem to be working freelance, so to speak, but every now and then you see a group who've obviously come on a special mission from a particular church. I had a chat with some of them once. The JWs with their stands are a new addition to the scene.
Does it 'work'? John Wesley thought it was worthwhile.... The preachers must hope they're planting a seed. The Birmingham City Mission produced a very interesting book about their history of evangelism, of which public preaching was an important part. They don't seem so visible now, though.
[ 12. January 2014, 14:09: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
ohhhhh - LOL
I thought you meant now!
Yes, the opposition skeleton army is very much a part of SA folklore.
But it wasn't the band they were offended by, the skeleton army was really the 'militant wing' of the brewing trade. We were gaining so many converts who were giving up the drink that they were losing business and so they paid this 'army' to attack us.
Also, people enjoy a drink. I'm not surprised brewers were hacked off with the SA for ruining their businesses, particularly since brewing was such a culturally important trade and also important for the baking trade (because brewers supplied barm to bakers). There's a lot of brewing in that part of Sussex (see also Harveys in Lewes) and for the SA to deprive people of their living when it wasn't inherently harmful is pretty shitty behaviour. On the side of the brewers here. Health benefits of beer.
And now I want a pint of Harveys best bitter ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
Maybe you should read up a little on the Victorian Temperance movement.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
The SA, street pastors and those offering prayer are mainly harmless and doing some good. There's no opportunity cost as they wouldn't be doing anything else more philanthropic.
The main harm they do is to themselves imagining that they are doing anything significant.
Damnationists theoretically create a vacuum for the good news to be preached second rate with words, but Yeats was right: no one can fill it: 'The best lack all conviction, while the worst - Are full of passionate intensity.' from The Second Coming. There's nothing wrong with that lack of conviction of course.
The market place is very wise. In Leicester, Islamic radicals in Gallowtree Gate get as much business as the damnationists. None. I'm glad to see that the buskers and beggars and Big Issue sellers get much more.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Just wondering how one example from 140 years ago, dealing with beer-sellers and beer-enabled mobs, has anything to do with the present playing of brass-band music in a civilized setting, for a mere 20 minutes.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
I find street preachers a complete turn-off and a very bad advert for Christianity ... Preaching hell-fire and damnation will never convince anybody to turn to Christ.
I have done a lot of street-preaching in my time and, like others here, am now thoroughly unconvinced of its value. Indeed, I genuinely find it an embarrassment and a switch-off, unless it is done very well.
The biggest problems to me are:
- speaking loudly in public doesn't attract people but repels them;
- people don't like being "got at" in public places;
- the language used by street preachers (and the topics they speak about) often make no sense at all to passers-by;
- you can't do a lengthy monologue sermon for people who may only be listening for a moment or two;
- so many street preachers look so dowdy and unattractive.
But - let's not stereotype it, it doesn't have to be "hell-fire and damnation", although it often is. There might just be a way of speaking of current issues and bringing the Faith to bear upon them.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I am not sure which makes me more uncomfortable: street preachers or Healing on the Streets.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Maybe you should read up a little on the Victorian Temperance movement.
I'm well aware of the miserable do-gooders of that movement, thanks.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I once heard a street preacher whose message was nothing more than "The Lord God Jesus going to save you all, folks" repeated over and over. I won't say it affected me to any great degree, but I will say it has stayed with me for many, many years while other street preaching I've heard is long forgotten.
My point being that the briefer and more upbeat the message, the better chance it has of succeeding.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
The biggest problems to me are:
- speaking loudly in public doesn't attract people but repels them;
- people don't like being "got at" in public places;
- the language used by street preachers (and the topics they speak about) often make no sense at all to passers-by;
- you can't do a lengthy monologue sermon for people who may only be listening for a moment or two;
- so many street preachers look so dowdy and unattractive.
But - let's not stereotype it, it doesn't have to be "hell-fire and damnation", although it often is. There might just be a way of speaking of current issues and bringing the Faith to bear upon them.
Some street preaching seems designed to engage with passers-by and some doesn't. You do see some street evangelists (usually the ones who've brought church members along to help them) engaged in conversation with passers-by. This is how Speakers' Corner-type interactions work. But other preachers simply have a message they want to convey (usually about hell-fire), and are going nineteen to the dozen to get it out. Generating a discussion with individuals clearly isn't their goal.
Regarding the appearance of street preachers, the hell-fire freelancers sometimes look a bit rough. But the church groups sometimes project an air of painful awkwardness. I don't think this helps either.
I think church groups would perhaps do better to man stalls at various community events, not preaching but handing out cake and information, and proactively offering to engage passers-by in conversation about Christianity and spirituality. And churches need to learn how to listen to ordinary people's issues and feelings rather than just preaching at them.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Recently , there has, it seems, been cases where Christian preachers have been hassled by Police, for preaching. This IMHO , seems a bad direction to be heading in as a society.
Yes - though the actual eventual charges are generally around creating a public nuisance by using a megaphone - usually after multiple warnings.
[ 12. January 2014, 16:39: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
The same happened in church today. It always does. But more so when there's an infant baptism and the opportunity to be inclusive of unchurched people. Which in a vague anthropological sense occurred. A rite of passage was gone through, with good will warm 'n' fuzzy feel good.
The church mainly serves to believe on non-churchgoers' behalves. We're The Dude in The Big Lebowski that The Stranger feels good knowing are out there, but wants nothing else from us as we have nothing more he needs. Nothing.
I was disturbed at 'the prayers' which included the 'persecuted' Christians of the CAR. Subtle corrosion there. I'm disturbed at the meaninglessness of the Trinitarian formulas. There was some attempt to let people know that God loves them AND forgives them. A slip of paper to take away.
Forgives them what?
Still, never mind the preaching, feel the liturgy.
A friend noted afterwards the number of older men who were there on sufferance, for the sake of kinship. He longed for the golden age of muscular Christianity.
And another friend tried to encourage a single fifty something guy, recently terminally unemployed with five bereavements in as many years, who is suicidally hopeless. He failed completely of course. The guy can't bear to come next week. He said so.
Perversely I find it all encouraging as it's real, useless, the lamp post diversion laid bare and having only been there a month I'm already able to explore that positively, nakedly with my fellow utter inadequates whereas no conversation was possible at all in my previous char-evo megachurch for over four years.
The best service I've been to all year was Good Friday at the Cathedral. Totally sacramental. Mystical. Awesome music. Watching the faithful kiss the feet of the crucifix was a bit challenging.
Hmmmm.
I actually said to the missus before we went, on account of Jorge Mario Bergoglio, I'd happily - PREFER to - go and be excluded from communion at a Roman church if it was across the road. I've thought that BEFORE him to be honest.
And I've learned from my mistake of Friday night. We were supposed to pair up with the more marginal and pray for them, show them the love of Jesus. I couldn't break in to the broken narrative of the guy alienated from his son and brother and that it was all Cameron's fault for letting the Romanians in. Didn't have anything to preach in my prayer. So said nowt. Rather than say some empty self-serving twaddle.
But I'm going to positively hopelessly find a way to encourage him for a moment next week. Perhaps the handshake and hug and acceptance knowing he's a serial sex offender and his knowing that I know will be enough. Again. If I HAVE to pray for him ... hmmmmmmmm. Promise, I'll find a way. It will start with acknowledging that I don't know what to pray.
Positively the worst bit of street preaching I encountered was a couple of summers ago when that guy who was schlepping round Britain with a lit up cross of expanded metal mesh, looking like a next generation shoulder launched missile, caused at least three churches to gather on a Sunday evening in Leicester Town Hall Square with no witnesses apart from the destitute who couldn't wait for a the free burger.
One church worker was horrified that they didn't realise what was among them, that they could lay down ALLLLLL of their troubles right there and then at the foot of the rocket launcher.
Just preach free burgers.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I think church groups would perhaps do better to man stalls at various community events, not preaching but handing out cake and information, and proactively offering to engage passers-by in conversation about Christianity and spirituality.
Like this, perhaps?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
That looks like something that many mainstream churches could do, yes.
I know a Baptist church that participates faithfully in local community festivals. As well as their several stalls they have a prayer tent, and things for children to do. Some of their young people perform at the event. It's part of their wider engagement with the local community rather than being a one-off thing that doesn't reflect their normal identity.
Some churches make it their business to run stalls at New Age festivals and that sort of thing.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Mudfrog:
Maybe you should read up a little on the Victorian Temperance movement.
Jade C:
I'm well aware of the miserable do-gooders of that movement, thanks.
Jade, don't let pique at being pulled up short make you make a fool of yourself like this. Working effectively with empathy alongside problem drinkers is greatly helped by a commitment to abstinence amongst the workers themselves, as I've observed over 25 years ex-offenders rehab volunteering. The SA have a very lengthy, really honourable history of this kind of work, going right back to the times to which Mudfrog alludes. Alcohol=misery for a lot of people today too, though some of us are lucky enough to be able to take it (when we fancy a half) or leave it (when we don't). Seems some folks just 'get the taste', as they say around here; some are never seen again.
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
Mudfrog:
Maybe you should read up a little on the Victorian Temperance movement.
Jade C:
I'm well aware of the miserable do-gooders of that movement, thanks.
Jade, don't let pique at being pulled up short make you make a fool of yourself like this. Working effectively with empathy alongside problem drinkers is greatly helped by a commitment to abstinence amongst the workers themselves, as I've observed over 25 years ex-offenders rehab volunteering. The SA have a very lengthy, really honourable history of this kind of work, going right back to the times to which Mudfrog alludes. Alcohol=misery for a lot of people today too, though some of us are lucky enough to be able to take it (when we fancy a half) or leave it (when we don't). Seems some folks just 'get the taste', as they say around here; some are never seen again.
I don't really regard myself as having been pulled up short because I don't think I was wrong and Mudfrog is right here.
I object to the Temperence movement's aims - banning alcohol achieves nothing as Prohibition shows. I also object to teetotalism being part of the requirements for any Christian denomination. Giving up alcohol is not inherently part of being a Christian. If individual SA members believe that teetotalism is helpful for them as part of their work, that is their decision to make but IMO a blanket ban is infringing on an individual's right to make their own decisions regarding alcohol.
Catholics and Anglo-Catholics are hardly lacklustre in their achievements in the social gospel but don't feel the need to ban alcohol. They let adults make their own decisions. Why should alcohol be banned for everyone just because some people abuse it?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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LucyP
Shipmate
# 10476
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
I find street preachers a complete turn-off and a very bad advert for Christianity. In the city where I work, they have a stall festooned with bible texts. Occasionally the local Muslims set up a stall next door - I don't know how Muslims view Islamic street preachers - I will enquire.
Surely the best advertisement for Christianity is actions, not words. Hence the success of the Salvation Army and Street Pastors mentioned up-thread. Preaching hell-fire and damnation will never convince anybody to turn to Christ - the words are not accompanied by any demonstration of Christian love in action. The great popularity of Pope Francis is because he is seen to practise what he preaches - the actions match the words.
I wouldn't put a stall with literature and one-to-one conversations in the same category as a street preacher with a megaphone. I think stalls are culturally acceptable, regardless of their message, as they are nonconfrontational and easily ignored.
The one-to-one conversations can potentially lead to the administration of some aspect of Christian love - a listening ear, genuine compassion, or guidance towards practical help (eg if a church has a debt/finance advisory service for people who are struggling.)
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2
But OTOH, I'm glad these people are there. This is partly to do with my love of the urban environment; when I see groups of ordinary people daring to interact with the public I feel that's part of the energy and colour of city life. I don't like it when public spaces are left devoid of character.
Thanks SvitlanaV2, an interesting perspective as always!
I agree that diversity on display is one of the attractions of modern urban living. However if I share a creed with someone, it saddens me to see them "sharing the message" in a way that completely repels, unless there are also other people picking up the pieces ("good cop bad cop"). I don't think present-day non-Christians, in general, react to the "angry" street preachers by finding a gentle church that preaches love and reaches out to refugees and the marginalised.
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan
I have done a lot of street-preaching in my time and, like others here, am now thoroughly unconvinced of its value. Indeed, I genuinely find it an embarrassment and a switch-off, unless it is done very well.
[.....]
But - let's not stereotype it, it doesn't have to be "hell-fire and damnation", although it often is. There might just be a way of speaking of current issues and bringing the Faith to bear upon them.
I agree, but I don't know how it would be done. "Current issues" can be a minefield as even Christians don't necessarily agree on the solutions, and speaking out may appear to align the speaker with a particular political party.
Most commercial advertising focuses on the individual's real or perceived needs - "it's all about YOU". So "Christian advertising" that suggests that Christianity can address issues like loneliness or lack of purpose is at least in synch with the times - but there needs to be a good church behind the preacher so that promises are delivered. And it risks degenerating into pop-pyschological self help.
Barnabas62's mention of things like street drama could also work, if well done, but I don't think I've ever seen anything like that.
Posts: 235 | From: my sanctuary | Registered: Sep 2005
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LucyP:
I agree that diversity on display is one of the attractions of modern urban living. However if I share a creed with someone, it saddens me to see them "sharing the message" in a way that completely repels, unless there are also other people picking up the pieces ("good cop bad cop"). I don't think present-day non-Christians, in general, react to the "angry" street preachers by finding a gentle church that preaches love and reaches out to refugees and the marginalised.
No, they probably don't. But it's the job of the 'gentle churches' to find their own way of speaking to people. It's a crowded market for ideologies and theologies out there, and that's not going to change. And in a big city the hell-fire street preacher isn't likely to be the only representation of Christianity that passers-by have come across.
There are small struggling mainstream churches that manage to grow, but it takes a lot of work. Evangelism, however that's defined, has to be seen as a priority, rather than as something that might just happen as a by-product of social activism, or whatever. The Baptists I mentioned above do a lot of work with Muslim refugees and other disadvantaged groups, but they do make it known that the gospel is behind (or in front of?) everything they do. This has borne fruit, even though the congregation isn't large.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Fool on the hill
Shipmate
# 9428
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Posted
I go to Tampa Florida and the surrounding area alot for various reasons and several years ago I walked by a preacher at a table by the beach offering information and pamphlets or what have you, so I stopped to chat. At first, I must have come off as a little combative, because he said, "can we just talk, here?" And I said sure, and I apologized and explained that I really like to talk about this stuff. We talked for about 45 minutes, while my sons waited patiently. (Sort of). It was a great conversation. We talked alot about books that he recommended I read in order to convert me, (or whatever) which I had already read, mostly.
I mention its the Tampa area because I think the area has alot of "street preachers". In Tampa, they are everywhere and people call them the "nice God people". They were offering water and coffee, and no judgement, from those leaving the bars. We had a flat tire that night and the nice God people helped us out by holding the flashlight for my husband while he changed the tire. They very clearly would have changed the tire for us, beings that they were younger and stronger but my husband seemed like he wanted to take care of it himself. Lol.
Yea, love those nice God people. I like the street preachers I've met.
Posts: 792 | Registered: May 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Racking my memory for Open Air Campaigners doctrine, a couple of points.
I think there's an excellent case to be made for the public announcement of the Good News. Yes it needs to be in a culturally acceptable way (I was preaching on Acts 17 yesterday!), but the pressure in secularised societies is to push expressions of faith behind private doors, and some resistance to this is I think a good thing.
As I indicated in my previous post, I also agree that having a format that enables one-to-one conversations is massively different from the megaphone model.
(Actually, I am against PA in church for pretty much the same reasons. Our venue is just about small enough for people to be comfortably heard if they speak up, and our band, which includes a drummer, is prohibited - in Christian love - from using PA, with the exception of the bass player. But this is a tangent).
Sketchboard evangelism combines these two aspects by having a preacher in front of a sketchboard doing an engaging presentation with the help of some very basic artistic visual support as he paints a summary of his message. He is accompanied by a team. A few team members face the preacher, the rest keep off somewhere, only joining the ranks if a crowd builds. At the end of the presentation, team members turn to the person next to them and say "I'm with the person who just spoke. What do you think of what s/he said?"
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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pydseybare
Shipmate
# 16184
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Posted
There is an interesting divide in my town in the mid 19 century regarding the Temperance movement.
We had a single large industry which employed a lot of people. There was a 'mission' to these people, set up by a non-conformist group, but evenually taken on by an Anglican foundation*. This was always a lay movement, and ran from a very run-down shack for getting on for 60 years.
The Temperance Movement, in contrast, was run by ordained clergy - largely from the Anglican church, but also other large churches in the town.
Reading newspaper articles from the time, the suggestion appears to be that the mission was of very low status, whereas the Temperance meetings were of much higher status - reflecting, perhaps, the idea of a 'worthy' and an 'unworthy' poor.
I don't think there was a Salvation Army corps here during that period, but I suppose the interesting thing for me (that I hadn't really appreciated before) was that there was so pronounced a divide between different groups - who may have all believed in the idea of promoting teetotalism. It might be interesting to see how the Salvation Army fit within this expression, given that it appears that on the whole the movement was seen with some scorn by the religious authorities of the time.
*predictably the non-conformists and Anglicans fell out, and eventually the former built their own mission house not far from the existing mission.
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"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future."
Posts: 812 | Registered: Jan 2011
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pydseybare
Shipmate
# 16184
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Posted
I think the main problem with this kind of street evangelism is that it doesn't work in our culture. Perhaps people once would stand and listen and/or argue with someone saying something interesting or preposterous in the street, but I think this just makes people angry today.
It is interesting to see the JWs regularly put out their stall in my town. These seems to consist of a mobile magazine stand of the watchtower, with members (presumably) sitting nearby on a bench waiting to engage with anyone who is interested.
It is hard to imagine that this has any effect on anyone in my town. But then perhaps the JWs have a higher tolerance for sitting and waiting for a long time for the single lost sheep to make themselves known.
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"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future."
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
I don't think TSA was actually a part of the Temperance Movement as such but we very much anti-drink because it caused so much poverty and hardship.
There is the well-known story of a man who had been converted and was being scorned by someone who asked him if he really believed that Jesus turned water into wine. His answer was that he didn't know but that in his house Jesus had turned beer into furniture.
What town are you in?
[ 13. January 2014, 07:48: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
Open air services - rather than just a random 'manic street preacher' - can actually have unintended benefits.
Last year we went to the street most Sundays and on a number of occasions there were two large, older men who sat on the benches and listened and took part in the meetings by singing. After the band had gone I spoke to them and discovered that they were sex offenders who were not allowed to go to church and for whom this short time of worship was very special.
A couple of weeks later we had cancelled the open air service for some reason or other and they came to the door of the church to ask if we were coming out, they'd come especially.
I have to say I was quite moved.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Most Shipmates who have posted on this thread have, at best, suggested that street preaching is no longer an appropriate way of communicating the Christian message in contemporary culture. Some have recoiled in horror at the very idea! - and I can see why.
Now, there have been a few hints as to how street preaching might be "updated". But these beg the wider question of how one makes any meaningful communication of the Christian message to the many people who lie totally outside the ambit of the Church. Clearly one has to "witness" in a way which engages with them - but how might one do that when one has virtually no common religious ground or shared language with them?
By the way - on a rather different line - I wonder how many street preachers are motivated by a sense of "divine ought-ness" - "Woe is me if I do not preach the Gospel!" - and even guilt rather than a simple desire to get a message across? And how many are prepared to evaluate the effectiveness and relevance of their ministry rather than blaming failure on people's "hardness of heart" or taking comfort in the thought that "seeds have been sown"?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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LucyP
Shipmate
# 10476
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Most Shipmates who have posted on this thread have, at best, suggested that street preaching is no longer an appropriate way of communicating the Christian message in contemporary culture. Some have recoiled in horror at the very idea! - and I can see why.
Now, there have been a few hints as to how street preaching might be "updated". But these beg the wider question of how one makes any meaningful communication of the Christian message to the many people who lie totally outside the ambit of the Church. Clearly one has to "witness" in a way which engages with them - but how might one do that when one has virtually no common religious ground or shared language with them?
ISTM that there is the potential for a variety of approaches for those who wish to raise awareness of the Christian message among people who never come to church. Each different style can be tailored to a different group of people. The SA open air service might work for the (diminishing) group of people who have some sort of church background but who have drifted away without hostility; drama or sketchboarding might attract a different type of audience. And stalls allow one-to-one conversations, with the passer-by modifying the agenda as needed.
quote:
By the way - on a rather different line - I wonder how many street preachers are motivated by a sense of "divine ought-ness" - "Woe is me if I do not preach the Gospel!" - and even guilt rather than a simple desire to get a message across?
I think the guilt/obligation dynamic can be a motivator for any preacher, not just street preachers, but I would hope the purely guilt-driven are in the minority. Unless they are a genuine prophet of the Old Testament variety!
quote:
And how many are prepared to evaluate the effectiveness and relevance of their ministry rather than blaming failure on people's "hardness of heart" or taking comfort in the thought that "seeds have been sown"?
Evaluation of overall effectiveness is difficult unless you're pushing people to "make a decision" so you can count them. The Open Air Campaigners' method seems to have inbuilt low-key evaluation, with the "sidekicks" engaging bystanders in conversation, allowing for feedback - and individual application of the topic.
Posts: 235 | From: my sanctuary | Registered: Sep 2005
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
And how many [street preachers] are prepared to evaluate the effectiveness and relevance of their ministry rather than blaming failure on people's "hardness of heart" or taking comfort in the thought that "seeds have been sown"?
The Birmingham City Mission book implies that open-air preaching does attract regulars, which is unsurprising if the preacher and shoppers have their routines and favourite spots. And the preacher might develop a rapport with some of the tradespeople, police or others who are regularly in the vicinity. I normally see the same one or two preachers when I go into town. The noisy freelancers are more faithful to their 'street vocation' than the fly-by-night church groups, which is a shame, since the latter would surely be able to do more than just shout at people.
It occurs to me that for some people listening to an open-air sermon could serve as their 'church'. The BCM's heyday was pre-Fresh Expressions, but it seems as though some people with problems who might otherwise have felt unsuited to a normal church environment found the BCM's ministry helpful. Pastoral connections were formed.
Basically, though, a street mission can't be a entirely selfish one, can it? You can't count the number of converts, or church members, or people who've come to sit on your church pews. The long-term outcome for almost everyone who passes by will be a mystery to the preachers. They have to leave that in God's hands.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
My experience of street preachers has been entirely negative: screaming, judgmental and daft.
*Street preachers brought by bus to our university from a "Bible college" in another city, lined up along the major walkways on campus just blathering and waving their Bibles at passers-by.
*Street preachers screaming "Whore!" and "Whoremonger!" at passers-by, and telling women they were going to hell for wearing pants and short hair.
*Street preacher with papier-mache' ball and chain around his leg, screaming, "Jesus will free you from your burden of sin!"
*Street preacher physically grabbing at a female passer-by who told him she wasn't interested in what he was going on about.
*Street preachers gathering on the main street of our local town every Saturday morning during tourist season, glaring at walkers and passing cars, carrying placards reading "Repent!" and "The wages of sin is death!" Several of the men (God forbid that the womenfolk utter a word, which I suppose is a blessing for the few pedestrians who choose to run this gauntlet) preaching from their Bibles to...well...no one, most of the time, just into the air, because it's a small town.
In my opinion, these people love being ignored and "persecuted," i.e., challenged about their behaviors, because it makes them feel set apart, martyred and special; and their "preaching" is a kind of auto-hypnosis, more than any sort of intelligent, engaged attempt at connecting with other human beings.
And -- their theology, as well as their methodology, tends to suck.
[ 15. January 2014, 21:25: Message edited by: LutheranChik ]
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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