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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Unitarianism - beliefs and practices
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Clotilde
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# 17600
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Posted
In the thread on 'Fundamentalism' I've just learned the fascinating fact that Samuel Taylor Coleridge was once a Unitarian Minister in Bristol.
I thought it would be interesting, for me at least (!), to have a separate thread about Unitarians, a branch of religious belief which has always interested me.
In England the Unitarians, if I read history correctly,have been very influential, not least in certain industrial cities like Birmingham and Manchester. They have had a special concern for social justice and education.
I have never quite understood whether it is of the essence to believe, as a Unitarian, that Jesus Christ was simply a man, or whether they say you can believe what you like but not be dogmatic about the nature of Jesus Christ.
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A witness of female resistance
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trouty
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# 13497
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Posted
Many, maybe most, modern Unitarians are open to all kinds of philosophies but want to distance themselves from Christianity. There is, however, the Unitarian Christian Association, which seeks to uphold Unitarianism's traditional position that developed out of the religious movements of the Reformation and to uphold the Unitarian emphasis on Christ's teachings.
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
As I understand it (and I have a reliable informant), there are two, possibly competing, strands within Unitarianism today.
The first is rooted in its Christian heritage, is theist or possibly deist in belief, and probably regards Jesus as a specially gifted man (but probably not "Son of God"). This side of the Church would emphasise the "Free Christian" label of the denomination.
The second is much more rationalist and intellectual, probably universalist and regarding religion as a largely human construct. I suspect that this strand has the ascendancy at the present.
[ 20. January 2014, 10:18: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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trouty
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# 13497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
In England the Unitarians, if I read history correctly,have been very influential, not least in certain industrial cities like Birmingham and Manchester. They have had a special concern for social justice and education.
The Chamberlain family in Birmingham, who produced three eminent British politicians, were Unitarian. In Liverpool, many prominent business people and philanthropists - the Durnings, the Rathbones (of whom Basil was one), and the Holts (who included George Melly in their extended family) were the most famous but there were many others.
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trouty
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# 13497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
As I understand it (and I have a reliable informant), there are two, possibly competing, strands within Unitarianism today.
The first is rooted in its Christian heritage, is theist or possibly deist in belief, and probably regards Jesus as a specially gifted man (but probably not "Son of God"). This side of the Church would emphasise the "Free Christian" label of the denomination.
The second is much more rationalist and intellectual, probably universalist and regarding religion as a largely human construct. I suspect that this strand has the ascendancy at the present.
This is correct. The second strand is probably dominant a the moment, but there are signs of growth in the Free Christian tradition. It is worth having a look at the Liberal Christian Herald, the journal of the Unitarian Christian Association, which can be found on their website.
http://www.unitarianchristian.org.uk/Herald.html
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que sais-je
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# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
I think that like many movements, they've moved away from their historic roots. Initially it was a form of non-conformist Christianity. Now.. well, it appears to be a mix of people who don't actually appear to believe in anything specific (I saw a sign outside of the Unitarian chapel in Derbyshire which said that members included people who were atheists, liberal Christians, witches.. and so on).
One of Bristol's two Unitarian Chapels has a sign outside welcoming christians, pagans, atheists, LGBT, all nationalities and all opinions. And no doubt tax collectors, Samaritans the prostitutes from the square outside and the drug dealers from it's graveyard.
I can't remember where I read this joke: A Unitarian dies and finds himself at the Gates of Heaven. St Peter says "Come in" but the Unitarian notices a signpost off to one side "Discussion Group: Does Heaven Exist?". "That's the place for me", he says.
A Unitarian I know says it a reasonable joke to make. Apologies if it upsets any Unitarians - in my defence, I'd probably make the same choice.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
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Pomona
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# 17175
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Posted
So are most Unitarians in the UK basically liberal Quakers minus the 'that of God in everyone' and silent worship?
What is the difference between Unitarianism and Universal Unitarianism?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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gog
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# 15615
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Posted
Out here in west Wales the Unitarian chapels do tend to be much more of the "Free Christian" end of the spectrum, and form part of the non-conformist patch work of the area. It would be interesting to see how our locals would relate the other expression of Unitarianism which I see as the much more urban form of it.
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trouty
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# 13497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
So are most Unitarians in the UK basically liberal Quakers minus the 'that of God in everyone' and silent worship?
What is the difference between Unitarianism and Universal Unitarianism?
Unitarian Universalism arose from the union of the Unitarian and Universalist Churches in the USA. It only really exists over there, and while many Unitarians will hold to Universalist beliefs, the Unitarian Church in the UK and many European countries exists on its own account.
There are many national differences within Unitarianism. In Eastern Europe, particularly Hungary where it is strongest, communion will be treated as a major occasion (it is usually only held once a year there). In the UK many Unitarian churches won't bother with anything that would be recognised by more orthodox churches as communion.
In America it used to be said that Unitarians believed that God saved everyone because people were so good, while Universalists felt that God saved everyone because God was so good.
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roybart
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# 17357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by gog:
Out here in west Wales the Unitarian chapels do tend to be much more of the "Free Christian" end of the spectrum, and form part of the non-conformist patch work of the area. It would be interesting to see how our locals would relate the other expression of Unitarianism which I see as the much more urban form of it.
The rural-urban dichotomy is interesting. I attended a small liberal arts college in western Massachusetts that was founded in the 1830s -- ostensibly secular, but at the time part of a small-town conservative reaction to the decline of orthodox Calvinism and the rise of Unitarianism in Boston and other urban centers in the eastern part of the state. Chapel attendance in the 19th century was Christian, of a congregationalist variety. By the time I attended, chapel was still required, but one could opt for secular programs rather than anything overtly religious. The year after I graduated, all chapel requirements were dropped.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
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roybart
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# 17357
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Posted
quote:
... the Unitarian Church in the UK and many European countries exists on its own account.
There are many national differences within Unitarianism. In Eastern Europe, particularly Hungary where it is strongest, communion will be treated as a major occasion (it is usually only held once a year there). In the UK many Unitarian churches won't bother with anything that would be recognised by more orthodox churches as communion.
I think that unitarianism in eastern Europe is more strongly located in Romania which absorbed the former Hungarian province of Transylvania -- center of unitarianism in the region -- after World War I. It's interesting that this form of unitarianism retains bishops.
I have read that the Transylvanian church established contact with the much newer unitarian movement in the USA as early as the 1830s. Both churches entered into a kind of affiliation with one another later in the 19th century. I don't know whether this connection survives.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
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Net Spinster
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# 16058
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by que sais-je:
I can't remember where I read this joke: A Unitarian dies and finds himself at the Gates of Heaven. St Peter says "Come in" but the Unitarian notices a signpost off to one side "Discussion Group: Does Heaven Exist?". "That's the place for me", he says.
A Unitarian I know says it a reasonable joke to make. Apologies if it upsets any Unitarians - in my defence, I'd probably make the same choice.
I think it fits their sense of humor. Another is
A visitor to a Unitarian Universalist church sat through the sermon with growing incredulity at the heretical ideas being spouted. After the sermon a UU asked the visitor, “So how did you like it?”
“I can’t believe half the things that minister said!” sputtered the visitor in outrage. “Oh, good — then you’ll fit right in!”
I wouldn't say Unitarians (at least the US UU variety) have no beliefs. Individually they may have quite strong beliefs but as a group they tend to accept a lot of variation and to realize that beliefs will change. The UUs have seven principles
1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
But also a requirement that the denomination as a whole reevaluate the principles every few years to see if they need to be updated.
As regards beliefs about Jesus, no requirement. I even know one UU minister who has preached on the trinity (he's a University chaplain where the chapel by tradition is non-denominational but uses the lectionary; he sometimes gets Trinity Sunday [possibly due to one of the other chaplains who is Episcopalian being in charge of who does what Sundays]).
The Unitarian Church of Transylvania is somewhat different and older (Anglo-Unitarianism dates to the late 1600s, Transylvania to the mid 1500s). It has an episcopal form (most Unitarian denominations are congregationalist) and has, I think, a statement of faith.
BTW though John Henry Newman became a prominent Catholic, his brother, Francis William Newman, became a prominent Unitarian (and wrote a book "Phases of Faith" which described his religious journey).
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spinner of webs
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Clotilde
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# 17600
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Posted
I often feel a significant hallmark of a religion is the art and culture which arises from it.
How does this apply to Unitariansim - has it, for example, inspired great poets?
(I seem to remeber one or two great Christmas carols were Unitrian in origin).
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A witness of female resistance
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Ricardus
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# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by trouty:
In Liverpool, many prominent business people and philanthropists - the Durnings, the Rathbones (of whom Basil was one), and the Holts (who included George Melly in their extended family) were the most famous but there were many others.
I am told that Liverpool University has no theological faculty because its founder was a Unitarian who thought such a faculty would be taken over by Anglicans out to disparage his religion.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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Pomona
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# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
I often feel a significant hallmark of a religion is the art and culture which arises from it.
How does this apply to Unitariansim - has it, for example, inspired great poets?
(I seem to remeber one or two great Christmas carols were Unitrian in origin).
Sylvia Plath was a Unitarian from Boston. Unitarianism plays a (very) minor role in The Bell Jar.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Dafyd
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# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
How does this apply to Unitariansim - has it, for example, inspired great poets?
As noted above, Coleridge was a unitarian at the time he was writing his early poetry. I think he remained a unitarian through the collaboration with Wordsworth, so while writing Ancient Mariner, Frost at Midnight, Kubla Khan (probably) and so on.
Ralph Waldo Emerson was a Unitarian minister, but resigned as he began to question his beliefs.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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CL
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# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
How does this apply to Unitariansim - has it, for example, inspired great poets?
As noted above, Coleridge was a unitarian at the time he was writing his early poetry. I think he remained a unitarian through the collaboration with Wordsworth, so while writing Ancient Mariner, Frost at Midnight, Kubla Khan (probably) and so on.
Ralph Waldo Emerson was a Unitarian minister, but resigned as he began to question his beliefs.
I would think it was opium that inspired Coleridge's poetry rather than Unitarianism.
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que sais-je
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# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
I often feel a significant hallmark of a religion is the art and culture which arises from it.
How does this apply to Unitariansim - has it, for example, inspired great poets?
I think you should take numbers into account. Divide number of those inspired by unitarian ideas by the number of unitarians. That catholicism produced great art is hardly surprising considering the numbers involved.
Some additional examples might be found here.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
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Net Spinster
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# 16058
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
I often feel a significant hallmark of a religion is the art and culture which arises from it.
How does this apply to Unitariansim - has it, for example, inspired great poets?
(I seem to remeber one or two great Christmas carols were Unitrian in origin).
It Came Upon a Midnight Clear by Edmund Hamilton Sears. See http://www.uuworld.org/ideas/articles/8732.shtml for a description of how it is Unitarian. I think John Bowring, a 19th century Unitarian, has at least one hymn in the New English Hymnal (but then Vaughan Williams, an atheist with some Unitarian background, has a piece or two of music in it). Béla Bartók, the composer, became a Hungarian Unitarian.
Charles Dickens attended Unitarian churches in the 1840s and early 50s and remained close (he wrote A Christmas Carol in 1843).
I suspect most modern Unitarians would look to humanity or to the rest of nature for inspiration.
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spinner of webs
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Clotilde
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# 17600
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Posted
Thank you for that. I take very much the point about relative size when weighing inspiration.
From what has been said poetry and hymnody have certainly had their Unitarian contributors ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'd not want to go into specifics too much here but hymnody does interest me in this context. So many hymns which I sing are Trintarian, at least in part (for example doxologies). Do Unitarians sing them / censor them / not use them?
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A witness of female resistance
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Zach82
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# 3208
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Posted
The Congregationalist parishes that once formed the established Church of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts were home to lots of Unitarians until the appointment of a Unitarian to lead the theology school of Harvard University caused a schism in 1825. The Unitarians walked away from the Congregationalist Church with the better part of its parishes and most of the old money families. The only parish to remain Trinitarian in Boston was New Old South church.
These Unitarian parishes tend to be more overtly Christian, though the old money has moved on for The Episcopal Church and Roman Catholicism. The first great patron of All Saints, Ashmont, for example, left the Unitarians for Anglicanism after a snowstorm prevented him from making it to King's Chapel and he found that he quite likes the goings ons at the much closer Episcopal Church of his servants.
[ 20. January 2014, 22:28: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
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Stetson
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# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Ralph Waldo Emerson was a Unitarian minister, but resigned as he began to question his beliefs.
Modern Unitarians still consider Emerson a forebear, since they are cuurently closer to the views he espoused in the Divinity School Address than they are to the more orthodox views he was reacting against.
I attended a UU church in Canada for a while a few years ago, and Emerson's picture was featured prominently in their displays, and his name occassionally mentioned during the services. At one point, the celebrant asked the congregation if they knew who Emerson was, and most people put up their hand(the percentage probably wouldn't be that high among Canadians in general).
re: Unitarians and Universalists, one thing I learned from reading UU literature was that the Universalists were more working-class in their orientation, in contrast to the Unitarians, who could be fairly regarded as suffering under a somewhat sheltered, bourgeois outlook. It was actually Unitarians do-gooders who entered the phrase Banned In Boston into common parlance.
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Knopwood
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# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by roybart:
I think that unitarianism in eastern Europe is more strongly located in Romania which absorbed the former Hungarian province of Transylvania -- center of unitarianism in the region -- after World War I. It's interesting that this form of unitarianism retains bishops.
That may well be, though my cousins' church, First Unitarian in Toronto, is "twinned" with the "Bela Bartok Church" in Budapest, and they had an exchange trip a few years back. So there must be some presence in Hungary proper. A print depicting the signing of the Edict of Torda hangs in the Toronto congregation.
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
These Unitarian parishes tend to be more overtly Christian, though the old money has moved on for The Episcopal Church and Roman Catholicism.
There are even a few Trinitarian Universalist congregations left in the UUA, like First Universalist in Providence, which never assimilated a Unitarian theology and follow a BCP-type liturgy, right down to the Creed. At Toronto First, you would never find such a thing as "Communnion" with bread and wine: Flower Communion, or Water Communion, even Chocolate Communion (on St Valentine's Day!) but the Eucharist would be emphatically something Christians do. (I did, however, once attend a Purim party there!) On the other hand, the Unitarian Church of Montréal is still legally incorporated as the "Church of the Messiah".
In Ireland, of course, the local franchise of the UU international are the Non-subscribing Presbyterians!
[ 21. January 2014, 02:56: Message edited by: LQ ]
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Zach82
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# 3208
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Posted
Some of the Unitarian churches in Boston are influenced by King's Chapel, which was taken over by Unitarians during the long absence of a priest after the American Revolution, and which continues to use a doctored version of the Book of Common Prayer to this day.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
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Clotilde
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# 17600
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Posted
I didnt realise non subscribing presbyterians in Ireland were Unitarians.
The United Reform Church in England seems a mixed bag. I think some of its clergy are close to unitarianism or even non realism while others are not.
My impression in England is that Unitarianism is a very small enterprise compared with what it was, and I know no leading public figures who are unitarians. Only one I can think of recently is Cyril Smith, now late, former Rochdale MP.
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A witness of female resistance
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seekingsister
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# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
I know no leading public figures who are unitarians. Only one I can think of recently is Cyril Smith, now late, former Rochdale MP.
Tim Berners-Lee, typically described as inventor of the internet, is a British Unitarian. He was featured in the Olympics opening ceremony last year.
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Ricardus
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# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Net Spinster:
It Came Upon a Midnight Clear by Edmund Hamilton Sears. See http://www.uuworld.org/ideas/articles/8732.shtml for a description of how it is Unitarian.
That's interesting. I'm also fairly certain that the lines "For lo, the years are hastening on, by prophet-bards foretold, when with the ever-circling years comes round the Age of Gold" are a reference to Virgil's Eclogue IV, which was indeed taken as a Pagan prophecy of Christ during the Middle Ages, but not subsequently except by odd people like CS Lewis.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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JoannaP
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# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
quote:
Originally posted by trouty:
In Liverpool, many prominent business people and philanthropists - the Durnings, the Rathbones (of whom Basil was one), and the Holts (who included George Melly in their extended family) were the most famous but there were many others.
I am told that Liverpool University has no theological faculty because its founder was a Unitarian who thought such a faculty would be taken over by Anglicans out to disparage his religion.
I think it is more accurate to say that "(some of) its founders were Unitarians". Apparently, when the university was founded, all discussion of religion was banned. When I was there, there was an annual service at the beginning of the year, in the CofE church nearest to the halls of residence, and I did wonder what the founders would have thought about it.
One of my friends went to a service at a Unitarian church in Liverpool (he wanted to see a mural or something but had to go to a service as it was the only time the church was open) and was rather overwhelmed by how pleased the small, elderly congregation was to see him.
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
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