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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Olympics 2014
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The Olympics are to start rather soon in Sochi, Russia. I find some aspects of the Olympic movement troubling: the excess focus on competition and winning, the expenses of the games, corporate sponsorship of everything related. Sports being pretty well a replacement for religion it seems, but only as performance. Few participate.
Being not so sure myself, I ask: are the Olympics justifiable at all in your opinion?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
the original Olympic idea certainly is quite noble. What the modern media-driven, sensationalist world has made out of it is another question.
I don't have any problem with Olympic Games per se, I quite enjoy watching people strive for perfection in their disciplines.
What I do have a problem with are these particular Olympics, the whole story of the way Russia forced them upon Sochi, the utter disregard for inhabitants and workers and the environment, the way Putin instrumentalises the Games for his own agenda. The latter is not new, though. We already had this back in 1936...
Ideally, the Games should only be held in nations that are up to the "Olympic Ideal" of fairness and international goodwill.
But commercial interests and "realpolitik" will make sure this won't happen too often ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2008
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Sports being pretty well a replacement for religion it seems, but only as performance.
What do you mean "replacement"? The Olympics started out as a religious ritual.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
There is the stated ideal of the "Olympic movement" and the reality of what it is- a two week window where a bunch of sports host their respective biggest competition of the year in one location. If you are just not that into sports, no one forces you to watch. There are these things called books, after all.
For the sports fans among us, it is a great opportunity to see the best in the world in sports that get less publicity (which is why they need corporate sponsors- freestyle skiing doesn't pay well) competing in the event they have been working towards for their entire lives. It's fun. While I think the expenses of hosting are quite silly, beyond that, I don't see why the idea of a high-level world wide athletic competition needs justification.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
How venues are chosen
No doubt some attention is paid to geopolitical acceptability but I would think ability to pay, plus a sound plan to deliver the venues and necessary infrastructure on time matter more than "sensitivities".
Personally, I prefer the summer Olympics, but in general I agree with Og. And I do enjoy the curling. Clever, subtle team game and very good to watch on TV.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Anglican't
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# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
I can't think too much attention is paid to geopolitical good sense when Sochi, Russia is first choice and Pyongyang was the runner-up!
The runner up was Pyeongchang, in South Korea. Pyeongchang will host the 2018 Winter Olympics and Paralympics.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
I find some aspects of the Olympic movement troubling: the excess focus on competition and winning
It's sport. Playing to win is the whole POINT.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
Ideally, the Games should only be held in nations that are up to the "Olympic Ideal" of fairness and international goodwill.
But this in itself would be a controversial idea. I can't see how objective choices could be made, or who would make them. Every nation has its detractors.
Moreover, Russia is hardly getting a free ride; the upcoming Olympic games are providing a perfect opportunity for critics of the Russian govt to publicise their displeasure internationally.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
My bad. Thanks for catching that. I was reading something else about North Korea at the same time. Still, my point holds. Actually North Korea almost might seem safer to me, because if the event was actually in NK, they would have no incentive to disrupt it. Any event that is SK's event, they have every incentive to disrupt.
They didn't disrupt the 1988 Seoul Olympics, so this round should be OK.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Chocoholic
Shipmate
# 4655
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Posted
I was rather lacking in enthusiasm for 2012, thought it was a lot of money, when the country was facing huge financial pressures, and with millions invested in a few individuals to try to get them to win medals (and once they had they got big advertising deals). I do still believe this but it did give more of a lift to the country than I had given it credit for initially and there was huge excitement as our medal haul increased. But more than that, it bought countries together even where there were political and social issues or contentions, and who knows, it could help in steps towards reconciliation and mutual respect.
Let us hope that this games can also help to build on this.
Posts: 773 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I would like to see the Olympics return to a much more simple format. The exorbitant spending by host cities is obscene and the opening and closing ceremonies are often ridiculous. Maybe there should be one permanent site agreed on(?Athens) and all participating countries then contribute to its upkeep.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
I find some aspects of the Olympic movement troubling: the excess focus on competition and winning
It's sport. Playing to win is the whole POINT.
Completely disagree, unless you're a spectator, which is one of the problems I'm identifying. I play in an over 50 fun soccer league, curl in a master's league, ski in loppets. These are all about activities with other people, with friendly competition and participation the emphasis. We have no referees and we regulate ourselves. Does no one participate in sports that are not just about winning? Pity if not.
I also ride a bicycle for commuting, and canoe and sail for recreation. Are these not sports? I think the excessive focus on competition makes most people take themselves out of sports entirely by the time they're in their midteens. They drink "sports drinks" as an aid to their development of diabetes and becoming fat. Pity there too.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Egeria
Shipmate
# 4517
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Posted
As the Olympics are staged by human beings, it is inevitable that there will be mistakes in planning and organization, occasional cheating, and occasional displays of poor sportsmanship (cue that silver medalist in gymnastics from 2012). There will also be awe-inspiring displays of speed, power, grace, and all-round excellence. Displays of courage and fortitude, often by athletes who have no chance of winning a medal and are soon forgotten (the last finishers in any distance event, for example). Displays of good sportsmanship, too. (Journalists, wallowing in their nasty professional cynicism, often don't care about such things, but sports fans do.)
So the Olympic Games sometimes fall short of the ideal. What human endeavor does not? Overall, however, the ideal is more often realized than not.
And if sport is all about winning, only a handful of athletes would participate in the Olympics. Think about all the hundreds of athletes who know that only a miracle will get them anywhere near the medal stand--or even the top ten--or the top one hundred in some events! I had the privilege of having an Olympic athlete as a strength training instructor. He said that it was indeed a great thrill to be there and to participate--living proof of what Baron de Courbetin said.
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"Sound bodies lined / with a sound mind / do here pursue with might / grace, honor, praise, delight."--Rabelais
Posts: 314 | From: Berkeley, CA | Registered: May 2003
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
I also ride a bicycle for commuting, and canoe and sail for recreation. Are these not sports?
Not that anyone would want to watch on TV. Once again, if competitive sports on TV aren't your thing, read a book. I'll watch the best in the world drive each other to be better than they would be without the competition.
I like to ski. I love watching mogul skiing because I know exactly how hard it is to even connect two turns in a mogul field, and am in awe of anyone who can do 20+ in a row with jumps in the middle. It has never made me want to quit. And the notion that televised competitive sports generally inspire people to quit sports seems a little silly.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I would like to see the Olympics return to a much more simple format. The exorbitant spending by host cities is obscene and the opening and closing ceremonies are often ridiculous. Maybe there should be one permanent site agreed on(?Athens) and all participating countries then contribute to its upkeep.
It's the competitive element in hosting that sticks in my craw. Each country has to outdo the previous one, so the expense escalates. It takes some of the attention away from the real competition among athletes.
At the risk of sounding a total spoilsport, I never watch a major fireworks display without thinking 'There goes enough money to feed a small African country for a year'. Of course I watch the Olympic opening ceremonies, but with a small shadow at the heart.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I'm not sure it's possible to revert to 'simpler' with 200 nations taking part. I guess there's merit in seeking to tone down the opening and closing ceremonies, though, expensive as they are, the cost is probably a drop in the bucket compared with the costs of venues, secure accommodation for participants, support admin including overall security for the crowds as well as participants, media access, transport costs etc etc.
It's going to be a big, expensive, job even without some of the excessive razzmatazz.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
I never watch a major fireworks display without thinking 'There goes enough money to feed a small African country for a year'. Of course I watch the Olympic opening ceremonies, but with a small shadow at the heart.
GG
Except I don't think that's what it would go on.
Given some of the things public money is spent on (nuclear weapons - defence procurement in general - vanity infrastructure, failed IT projects, consultancies, top people's bonuses) a bit of sporting bread and circuses is relatively benign.
But then, as I have often remarked, all art is redundant, all fashion, all gastronomy, everything over and above the utilitarian. It just happens that the superfluous is what makes it all bearable.
[ 28. January 2014, 08:24: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
It's the competitive element in hosting that sticks in my craw. Each country has to outdo the previous one, so the expense escalates. It takes some of the attention away from the real competition among athletes.
Is that always the case? I don't know how much Peking's Olympic Opening Ceremony cost in 2008, but I suspect it cost an awful lot more than London's four years later.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
They didn't disrupt the 1988 Seoul Olympics, so this round should be OK.
Your faith in the little doughball currently dictating in North Korea (if not intended to be sarcastic) is touching. The increasing desperation of this forsaken hell-hole's ruling élite makes me less than fully convinced that they'll sit quietly by and watch the South earn plaudits for a well-run enterprise. My guess is that they'll sabotage the events location quite late in the day and then magnanimously step in to offer up their recently-constructed ski-resort as an alternative. Or perhaps threaten to disrupt the event unless their location is included.
quote:
Originally posted by chocoholic:
But more than that, it bought countries together
(my italics)
Love it.
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Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Completely disagree, unless you're a spectator, which is one of the problems I'm identifying. I play in an over 50 fun soccer league, curl in a master's league, ski in loppets. These are all about activities with other people, with friendly competition and participation the emphasis. We have no referees and we regulate ourselves. Does no one participate in sports that are not just about winning? Pity if not.
If the object isn't to win, why keep score?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
Maybe there should be one permanent site agreed on(?Athens) and all participating countries then contribute to its upkeep.
I think that's a great idea.
But the construction of these sites does bring lots of jobs, tourism etc etc.
Barcelona's stadium is still included on the tourist route.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Completely disagree, unless you're a spectator, which is one of the problems I'm identifying. I play in an over 50 fun soccer league, curl in a master's league, ski in loppets. These are all about activities with other people, with friendly competition and participation the emphasis. We have no referees and we regulate ourselves. Does no one participate in sports that are not just about winning? Pity if not.
If the object isn't to win, why keep score?
If that's all it is, why bother when you know you stand no chance? I should thank you, Marv - you've identified why compulsory school sports should be abandoned forthwith.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
If that's all it is, why bother when you know you stand no chance?
That's rarely the case, especially when talking about the Olympics. Even the slowest of Olympic runners must have won a shedload of races just to get there in the first place.
quote:
I should thank you, Marv - you've identified why compulsory school sports should be abandoned forthwith.
Yeah, because competition is the worst thing ever and no child should ever have to experience the horror of being defeated in a sporting contest.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
If that's all it is, why bother when you know you stand no chance?
That's rarely the case, especially when talking about the Olympics. Even the slowest of Olympic runners must have won a shedload of races just to get there in the first place.
What about that African guy who ran in minutes behind everyone else, while everyone cheered? But even in the less extreme cases there are those likely to win and those very unlikely to even get bronze.
quote:
quote:
I should thank you, Marv - you've identified why compulsory school sports should be abandoned forthwith.
Yeah, because competition is the worst thing ever and no child should ever have to experience the horror of being defeated in a sporting contest.
No, but because it's about winning and therefore pointless for those who have no chance of doing so. Having said that, I do think that no-one should have to experience the horror of losing every fucking time for twelve fucking years to the jeering of the entire school and made to feel like a useless piece of shit every fucking week for those twelve fucking years.
Some of us still haven't finished with therapy after decades. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
[ 28. January 2014, 12:17: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
What about that African guy who ran in minutes behind everyone else, while everyone cheered? But even in the less extreme cases there are those likely to win and those very unlikely to even get bronze.
Eric "The Eel" Moussambani? One of the greatest swimmers Equatorial Guinea has ever produced? You do realise that he set a new national record in that race, don't you?
quote:
No, but because it's about winning and therefore pointless for those who have no chance of doing so.
People just need to find the right sport for them. There were plenty of school sports that I wasn't very good at (basketball, cross country, athletics, tennis, rugby, etc), so I focused my efforts on the ones where I was (cricket and hockey).
quote:
Having said that, I do think that no-one should have to experience the horror of losing every fucking time for twelve fucking years to the jeering of the entire school and made to feel like a useless piece of shit every fucking week for those twelve fucking years.
Some of us still haven't finished with therapy after decades.
I firmly believe that there's a sport for everyone. The problem with sport in schools is that they don't offer enough variety.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
No, it was some runner. I forget the details because they don't particularly interest me.
They say there's a sport for everyone, but I never found one. Our school offered lots of sports, but I sucked at every last one of them.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
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Posted
I went to see the men's marathon at the 2012 Olympics and I was on the part of the course just opposite the water station for the Andorran runner. Most of the crowd standing there gave him a cheer when he came past, and I think most people were doing so as a bit of a sympathy vote, but I cheered because I do quite a bit of running, and know just what an exceptional runner you still have to be to do a marathon 15 minutes slower than the winner.
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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
Posts: 2210 | From: london | Registered: Aug 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Anyway, we're getting away from my point, which was that if (a) it's all about winning, and (b) you suck utterly, it's entirely pointless competing, and we should let people who suck do something with more point, rather than just act as foils for sportsmen to feel better than.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Completely disagree, unless you're a spectator, which is one of the problems I'm identifying. I play in an over 50 fun soccer league, curl in a master's league, ski in loppets. These are all about activities with other people, with friendly competition and participation the emphasis. We have no referees and we regulate ourselves. Does no one participate in sports that are not just about winning? Pity if not.
If the object isn't to win, why keep score?
We don't always. And never with golf. Your statement could be reversed: if you don't win, why play?
I take it you're quite a competitor Marvin. Keep at it Karl, you're on to the issue I think.
[ 28. January 2014, 13:40: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
So if left to Karl and NP, the kid who wasn't very good academically but had a real talent for say football or athletics, wouldn't be able to use their skill and talent to make a decent living.
And the rest of us can watch the teminally mediocre, providing they're all having a good time!
Well Karl, at least you learn't how to deal with losing and dissapointment - even if that meant therapy.
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
So if left to Karl and NP, the kid who wasn't very good academically but had a real talent for say football or athletics, wouldn't be able to use their skill and talent to make a decent living.
How'd you work that out? If it were up to me it wouldn't be compulsory. I didn't say it'd be forbidden.
quote:
And the rest of us can watch the teminally mediocre, providing they're all having a good time!
No, see above.
quote:
Well Karl, at least you learn't how to deal with losing and dissapointment - even if that meant therapy.
Actually, no, I learnt that it's perfectly acceptable to mock and assault the less talented at sports. You know that in my internal lexicon "bully" and "sportsman" are virtually synonyms, because IME they were all the same people.
[ 28. January 2014, 14:02: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
You know that in my internal lexicon "bully" and "sportsman" are virtually synonyms, because IME they were all the same people.
Oh, okay. Substitute "sportsman" for "socialist" and we could be talking about me.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
You know that in my internal lexicon "bully" and "sportsman" are virtually synonyms, because IME they were all the same people.
Oh, okay. Substitute "sportsman" for "socialist" and we could be talking about me.
It's like the Daily Mail in here; some people have to turn anything into a political swipe.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
Yeah, right! Because calling for taking competitive sports out of schools is not now, nor has ever been, a political subject with a clear left/right split.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Yeah, right! Because calling for taking competitive sports out of schools is not now, nor has ever been, a political subject with a clear left/right split.
Except no-one's calling for their being taken out of school. Just made non-compulsory. If that's lefty, well tough titty, I still think it's a damned good idea. How about arguing against it on its own merits or lack thereof, rather than trying the thought-free approach of "Is Socialist. Is Bad." Tell me exactly why making children endure losing every week to the derision of their peers is good for them. Do you think you'd benefit from being whipped with a towel, beaten up and having "wanker" gestures aimed at you all afternoon?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
So if left to Karl and NP, the kid who wasn't very good academically but had a real talent for say football or athletics, wouldn't be able to use their skill and talent to make a decent living.
And the rest of us can watch the teminally mediocre, providing they're all having a good time!
Well Karl, at least you learn't how to deal with losing and dissapointment - even if that meant therapy.
There's probably a bit of sour grapes for those of us whose talents lie somewhere other than athletics. You're right, it's great that someone who isn't academically inclined but is athletically talented can use those gifts to possibly great (depending on the sport) financial success and be cheered on by a huge crowd of supporters. I guess the rest of us just wish that those opportunities were available to kids with other kinds of gifts. It would be awesome if the arts received that sort of financial and community support. And one can't even imagine what sort of massive social paradigm shifting would have to take place for the mathletes to receive that kind of funding and enthusiastic support. Can one imagine a crowd of enthusiastic supporters cheering the nation's top teachers as they surmount a gauntlet of political, social, and economic challenges to successfully teach a young child to read, or the top nurses caring for some elderly patients? So yeah, sour grapes, but perhaps understandably so.
[ 28. January 2014, 14:42: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Can you imagine if we made chess compulsory? We'd be asked about people who don't like chess, and aren't interested in it. Why do we want to make them play chess?
Yet put a sport in the place of chess there, and everyone thinks it's wonderful. Bollocks to it.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Can you imagine if we made chess compulsory?
Or better still, have it as another option alongside football, rugby, cricket and the like during games periods. Have school chess teams competing against one another. That would be awesome.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I think it depends on what you think schools teach sport for, if it is to keep children fit and healthy and help them create a lifetime habit - I think there are better ways to do that than *solely* competitive games.
I found in adulthood that I was much more motivated by karate and weightlifitng than I ever was in lacrosse or basketball.
Learning to do them, and do them regularly, in childhood - would probably have had a substantial effect on my long term health.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Where I went to school, sports were compulsory, but they had different teams or activities with different objectives. Some were about giving people a foundation for a lifetime of fitness and a lesson in teamwork, others were about competing for state titles.
Arts were the same way. Compulsory, although there were advanced groups for people who wanted to perform and excel, and then a big choir or general art class where you might get a little appreciation for the arts.
Academics were, in fact, the same way. We had advanced classes, and those people who were in those advanced classes and who were accepted into some pretty impressive schools were recognized and actually admired by the other students (seriously, no nostalgia covering things up here). But for the rest of us, there were middle and remedial level classes, with the objective of getting the kid to excel at the level he or she was capable of.
So maybe that is why the Olympics don't rub me the wrong way- I was taught from an early age that the key is to drive to be the best that you can in whatever you do, be it art, sport, or academics,to know that there are people out there for whom excellence looks quite different one way or the other, and to recognize and admire greatness when you saw it, even if it was in a field that you would never achieve such greatness.
(It is also healthy to admit that you might be good at something that might be really not that interesting for someone else to watch. Nothing wrong with that- no one wants to watch me practice bankruptcy law or prepare my income tax return, and it's no hair off my back that they would rather get the adrenaline rush that comes with watching a good football game.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Can you imagine if we made chess compulsory?
Or better still, have it as another option alongside football, rugby, cricket and the like during games periods. Have school chess teams competing against one another. That would be awesome.
I would have liked it as a voluntary option. Love the game.
My old school made various firms of sweaty exercise compulsory, but unfortunately not the one we spent most of our time fantasising about.
I guess I could have coped with that option, provided a bit of privacy was provided. Doubt whether it will ever make it onto the Olympic Games schedule. Nigel Kneale was a great playwright but he probably got that wrong. (Translation available on request).
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
So if a child were an under achiever at maths, for instance, would it be acceptable for the teacher to shout at him and to humiliate him in front of his classmates? Would it be acceptable for the teacher to encourage the rest of the class to take the piss? Somehow I doubt it. So why is acceptable for PE/Games teachers to behave like that?
[ 28. January 2014, 16:58: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
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Posted
The thing I enjoy now, so many years after school, is that all those boys who mocked, hit and otherwise bullied me are fat, bald and married to ugly women* who hate them.
*I went to an all boys boarding school, so I can't speak to the Mean Girls™ or Heathers™ like experience of the smarter gender.
[ 28. January 2014, 17:04: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
So why is acceptable for PE/Games teachers to behave like that?
It's not.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
The thing I enjoy now, so many years after school, is that all those boys who mocked, hit and otherwise bullied me are fat, bald and married to ugly women* who hate them.
*I went to an all boys boarding school, so I can't speak to the Mean Girls™ or Heathers™ like experience of the smarter gender.
So is this all there is to this thread? Is this why the Olympics are not justified? Because people who were good at sports at school were mean to you?
(And this is always the story you hear, but I still keep up with a number of people who were good at sports in school, and a number of them have gone on to be quite successful in life. And once again, it's no hair off my back when they are successful.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
So is this all there is to this thread?
Okay, I apologise for trying to be funny. There are a host of reasons the Olympics are questionable, as other responses, including mine have noted. I think the under-mentioned one that has come up on this thread is that the pursuit of excellence and winning being the most important think has immense impact on public health via the nonparticipation in activity by the majority of the population. There are other influences too, including the rise of electronic entertainment.
But I will return to your comment, where you used the word "mean". "Mean" doesn't describe the level of bullying and violence experienced in my generation by the jocks. Which included medical attention requiring physical injuries.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
I think the under-mentioned one that has come up on this thread is that the pursuit of excellence and winning being the most important think has immense impact on public health via the nonparticipation in activity by the majority of the population.
There are far more productive ways to get people to exercise than ending the Olympics. You have stated up thread that you have found ways to participate in sports that do not emphasize winning at all costs- let's focus on teaching kids who don't have raw talent that. Do what my parents did- explain that not everyone is destined to be an Olympic athlete (this is especially true of me, about as clumsy of a person as you can find), and then explain that you can still have fun even if you compete or participate at a far lower level. Then sit back and admire the people who do have raw talent, with the appreciation that only comes from participating in the same sport at a much lower level.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
I think the under-mentioned one that has come up on this thread is that the pursuit of excellence and winning being the most important think has immense impact on public health via the nonparticipation in activity by the majority of the population.
There are far more productive ways to get people to exercise than ending the Olympics. You have stated up thread that you have found ways to participate in sports that do not emphasize winning at all costs- let's focus on teaching kids who don't have raw talent that. Do what my parents did- explain that not everyone is destined to be an Olympic athlete (this is especially true of me, about as clumsy of a person as you can find), and then explain that you can still have fun even if you compete or participate at a far lower level. Then sit back and admire the people who do have raw talent, with the appreciation that only comes from participating in the same sport at a much lower level.
You miss the point. The Olympics are the crown jewel, the pinnacle of the issue. You are correct that I personally am very active, but I am not in the majority.
We haven't even mentioned performance enhancing drugs and other shortcuts yet.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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