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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Preaching on the bus - OK or not?
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
I was riding the bus this morning and as usual it was fairly silent, being mostly tired office workers.
A middle aged woman stood up and said "Excuse me everyone" and began to do some kind of preaching. She mentioned that she had a prophecy that someone on the bus's destiny had been blocked, and that there was an international fasting movement to combat this. I have no idea if it was Christian or what religion it was. We all ignored her of course.
But at the next stop, the bus driver got out of his vestibule, marched towards her, and said "I've told you before, you can't get on this bus and start with this nonsense." She kept preaching, he continued to shout in her face. It was uncomfortable and I got off and walked to my final destination as that bus wasn't going anywhere soon.
I found this woman quite annoying. But then I wondered whether it's fair for people to be banned from preaching on public transport. Certainly people have loud obnoxious conversations or play music out of speakers which are as bothersome, but I've never seen a bus driver stop and approach someone for those things. It struck me additionally, that a middle aged woman preaching religion is less of a scary target than a group of hooded teenagers, and perhaps that's why she was singled out. The bus driver was needlessly aggressive, in my view.
So the questions are:
- is it currently banned/illegal to preach on public transportation (this was London BTW), and if so is that fair?
- why are we less willing to tolerate other types of noisy behaviour or disruption but not religious proselytizing or preaching? Is it because we think the religious are "easier targets" for taking out frustration than others? Or is it something to do with the view that religion should be private?
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
The fact that the bus driver had spoken to this woman before might indicate a context to her behaviour - possibly mental health related. I'm thinking of the possible compulsion to preach or deliver a prophecy regardless of social context.
I don't think it is OK, simply because the 'congregation' are a 'captive' one, who can't leave without inconveniencing themselves, possibly increasing their cost to get to their destination and making themselves late for work.
It's also questionable if it is OK to preach to (at) people if they haven't chosen to enter a situation in which preaching is a reasonable possibility. It's certainly often counterproductive and seen as unnecessarily intrusive.
That being said, even allowing that the driver was in a difficult situation and possibly acting out of embarrassment or a sense of uncertainty as to resolve the situation, yelling in someone's face isn't acceptable, civilised or respectful behaviour.
I'm not sure what I would do if my destiny was blocked (whatever that means). Perhaps go on a mystical quest to consult the 'Plumber of the Fates' to help remove it.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Trin
Shipmate
# 12100
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Posted
There's only one reason to pick a bus to preach on - because the audience can't get away without significant personal inconvenience.
Preaching on a bus is therefore quite twatty behaviour and I'd be perfectly happy to ban it.
Posts: 442 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2006
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
It sounds like this woman is mentally ill. So it's not a matter of preaching on a bus but a matter of tolerating or not tolerating rants springing from mental illness.
When I lived in West Africa there was often preaching on the busses in Ghana. People were very interested to hear it. Preachers would often set up on street corners and passers by would stop to listen to them.
But these preachers were normal, reasonable people, preaching an orthodox message that people were interested to hear. It was completely socially acceptable.
This case seems to be different than that. Not only is it not cool to preach on Western busses, but she was apparently not all there. I don't think a blanket rule about preaching on busses is the answer, but rather a way to deal with tricky individuals.
[ 17. February 2014, 12:25: Message edited by: Freddy ]
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
It sounds like this woman is mentally ill. So it's not a matter of preaching on a bus but a matter of tolerating or not tolerating rants springing from mental illness.
She did not in any way come across as mentally ill. She was dressed well and spoke clearly. Honestly when she started I assumed she was a Jehovah's Witness, they dress similarly and stand outside of the station where I got on the bus.
I do not believe she was mentally ill, unless religious belief is now a mental illness.
The way the driver engaged with her - if she was mentally ill and he suspected so, then he should be suspended immediately.
I don't want this to be a discussion about mental illness - because a lot of people think I'm mentally ill for believing that a guy rose from the dead and is in heaven with his father now. I want to talk about why preaching in public is almost universally seen as very terrible, but we are willing to suck it up for a whole other host of anti-social behavior when using public transport.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Earplugs needed for sure. Thank goodness for smartphones + headphones.
My words to her would be "For God's sake, shut up!"
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
I've encountered this on buses in Central America -- they get on the bus at one stop, preach until almost at the next stop, take up a collection, and then get off at the next stop so they can board another bus (probably in the opposite direction) and repeat the process. It struck me mostly as a money-making operation, just as other vendors would get on and sell various food items.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Some of the other anti-social behaviour is against TfL bye-laws
The only clause that could apply is:
quote:
6. (8) No person shall molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of any person on the premises.
(that's from the Road Transport bye-laws)
Music is specifically banned in section 7
[ 17. February 2014, 12:34: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Shouldn't advertisers have to pay for the opportunity to sell their wares? The revenue stream for ads will help relieve the burden on ticket-buyers and taxpayers. If people wish to preach, whether a religious position or a political programme or the best tampons, then they can pay for it.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I've not heard a full preach on a bus before. I've had people come and talk to me and try to give me leaflets before. Last time that happened, the guy who was doing it was from a pentecostal church in Southwark, about 2 miles from where he got on. As I was reading Dawkins' The Extended Phenotype at the time, I guess he thought I was a lost cause didn't bother me too much. He was very polite and moved on if he was asked to.
I wouldn't advocate preaching on the bus, but then I'm not a big fan of street preaching generally. It is more irritating than educating.
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
I don't want this to be a discussion about mental illness - because a lot of people think I'm mentally ill for believing that a guy rose from the dead and is in heaven with his father now. I want to talk about why preaching in public is almost universally seen as very terrible, but we are willing to suck it up for a whole other host of anti-social behavior when using public transport.
I travel by public transport a lot. I require two things when I get on the bus/Metro. Firstly, that it'll deliver me to my destination mostly as per the timetable. Secondly, that it provides a safe environment for me and my fellow passengers.
I'm not willing to put up with anti-social behaviour. If it's reasonable for me to do so (in that I won't put other passengers at risk by escalating matters), then I'll intervene. Neither would I be willing to stand idly by while someone with no social awareness whatsoever harangues a bus full of people which, frankly, is bang out of order.
Okay, she's not mentally ill*. She's still harassing the passengers, and as a Christian I would have expected you to intervene because that is good witness, good neighbourliness and good practice. Also, if she was that much of a prophet, she would have known exactly who she wanted to speak to.
If it had been a beardy jihadist calling you an infidel, I'm pretty certain I know what the reaction would have been. Same behaviour, different religion. Just no.
*making a judgement as to whether someone's mentally ill based on how they dress and how they speak? Dudes...
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Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
It sounds like this woman is mentally ill.
She must be - who speaks to strangers on public transport in London?
A Mormon once tried to engage me while I was travelling by tube. "Where are you going?", he asked. I think he meant that figuratively, in terms of my life, etc., because when I replied "Oval, via Waterloo" it seemed to knock him off his stride.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I'm not willing to put up with anti-social behaviour. If it's reasonable for me to do so (in that I won't put other passengers at risk by escalating matters), then I'll intervene
I agree.
Preaching at a captive audience on a bus is precisely as antisocial as getting on that bus with a stereo and a gang of your friends and playing music. Either should result in your summary eviction from the bus.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
*making a judgement as to whether someone's mentally ill based on how they dress and how they speak? Dudes...
I don't think I was doing that regarding the woman's speech and I didn't mention how she was dressed. I was merely saying that as an influence on her behaviour, mental illness was a plausible possibility.
Certain elements of speech can be indicative of mental illness either functional or organic. For example, persistent word finding difficulties or word understanding difficulties can be an indicator of dementia, uninhibited behaviour and reduced respect of boundaries an indicator of deterioration of the frontal lobe. Pressure of speech and the perceived need to express thoughts and emotions can be observed in people with a mood disorder etc.
As I wasn't there and the situation was hardly contusive to a proper assessment, I have no idea if I would have thought the woman in question was suffering from some form of mental illness. I was merely suggesting it as a possibility.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Preaching at a captive audience on a bus is precisely as antisocial as getting on that bus with a stereo and a gang of your friends and playing music. Either should result in your summary eviction from the bus.
I agree. The problem is that some folk - perhaps including this lady - would say that they "must obey God rather than man (sic)"; in other words, that Jesus' command to "Go, preach" has far greater authority than any mere TfL Bye-law.
By the way, I think this also applies to "personal evangelists" who don't preach but go round the bus (or railway carriage) "buttonholing" people for Jesus. The explanation (or excuse) they'll give is that the folk they talk to will "never hear" any other way - and I suppose there is some force in that, specially if you believe their souls must be saved from perdition.
One other point: different cultures have different norms on privacy and related issues. There may be some parts of the world where preaching on a bus is perfectly acceptable - perhaps this lady hails from some such and has failed to make the appropriate cultural adjustment.
[ 17. February 2014, 13:12: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
Apologies to seekingsister regarding her not wishing the thread be turned into a discussion of mental illness. I merely felt I needed to contextualise what was a very small part of my initial reply.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Preaching at a captive audience on a bus is precisely as antisocial as getting on that bus with a stereo and a gang of your friends and playing music. Either should result in your summary eviction from the bus.
While I agree that both behaviours should result in being kicked off the bus, I disagree that they're the same. Loud music is no more than an annoying irritation, but preaching to a captive audience is harrassment - a much more serious issue.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
Would those of you condemning this behaviour change your mind if it was leaflets, rather than spoken words?
I remember being on a bus during the lead up to the Iraq War, when lots of demos were taking place against it. A lady with a sheaf of papers was on board but, before getting off at her stop, she gave everyone an anti-war leaflet and also left them on the empty seats.
She got off before anyone could really react (though I think someone managed a 'would you like to live under Saddam Hussein'-type comment as she was stepping off).
I think what really irritated me - other than the littering - was that the lady had a really smug, self-satisfied look on her face (as these sorts of people sometimes do) and she was able to deliver her Parthian Shot without criticism.
[ 17. February 2014, 13:18: Message edited by: Anglican't ]
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If it had been a beardy jihadist calling you an infidel, I'm pretty certain I know what the reaction would have been. Same behaviour, different religion. Just no.
I have had that on a bus through Normanton in Derby, not necessarily a jihadist but definitely an "evangelical" Muslim from Somalia (he told me several times). I listened politely and then told him I was a Yorkshire Heathen. He looked puzzled but didn't enquire further.
To be honest I think it is just a cultural difference, many people of African origin think nothing of evangelizing at bus stops, railway platforms whether anyone else wants them to or not. As someone said to me a year or so back, "we were told that polite English people never talked about religion or money in public. Well everyone talks about money now so it must be OK to talk about religion as well". As long as they keep to messages of peace and love, don't hurt themselves or anyone else then I am pretty ambivalent towards it, no matter what religion they belong to.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If it had been a beardy jihadist calling you an infidel, I'm pretty certain I know what the reaction would have been. Same behaviour, different religion. Just no.
I don't know what religion she was from. You can reread my first post - certainly she never mentioned God, Jesus, or the Bible. She could have been a Muslim, who knows.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
To be honest I think it is just a cultural difference, many people of African origin think nothing of evangelizing at bus stops, railway platforms whether anyone else wants them to or not.
To add a bit of context, the woman seemed to be West African and in her 50s, based on her appearance and accent.
The bus driver was Afro-Caribbean as well.
[ 17. February 2014, 13:29: Message edited by: seekingsister ]
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
It's confession time ...
I once 'preached' outside a busy students' union ... because it was the sort of thing we were expected/encouraged to do in the church circles I was involved with back then ...
On one occasion, in between trains at a station I suddenly had this idea that I might be being 'prompted' to preach to the people on the platform ...
I had an adrenalin rush and was about to start when I thought better of it and didn't. The rest of the journey I struggled with guilt as to whether I'd disobeyed a 'prompting of the Spirit' and so on ...
I'm a fairly level headed bloke - or at least, I think I am ... but it does illustrate the level of pressure that builds up in more 'enthusiastic' forms of religion.
What would have happened had I started to preach in an impromptu way on that occasion? I suspect I'd have simply ended up stumbling over my words and tailing off as I ran out of things to say ...
Would it have done any 'good'?
I rather doubt it.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
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Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Questions of this person's mental competence aside, I think loudly ranting (about anything, whether it's Jesus, politics or who won the game last night) to a captive audience is rude and anti-social; and, in context, potentially dangerous because the disruptive behavior certainly distracting to the driver. Because in the US you never know who may be packing a loaded firearm, I might be disinclined to say anything directly to the ranter, but I'm sure I'd be inwardly fuming, "SHUT THE **** UP."
I just don't understand the compulsion. And most street preachers I've ever heard say nothing of substance anyway -- just a loud autohypnotic recitation of Scripture and their favorite sectarian platitudes, with much Bible flapping and gesticulation. I'm sure they provide great aid, comfort and amusement to the Richard Dawkins set, though.
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Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
It sounds like this woman is mentally ill. So it's not a matter of preaching on a bus but a matter of tolerating or not tolerating rants springing from mental illness.
She did not in any way come across as mentally ill. She was dressed well and spoke clearly. Honestly when she started I assumed she was a Jehovah's Witness, they dress similarly and stand outside of the station where I got on the bus.
I do not believe she was mentally ill, unless religious belief is now a mental illness.
The way the driver engaged with her - if she was mentally ill and he suspected so, then he should be suspended immediately.
I don't want this to be a discussion about mental illness - because a lot of people think I'm mentally ill for believing that a guy rose from the dead and is in heaven with his father now. I want to talk about why preaching in public is almost universally seen as very terrible, but we are willing to suck it up for a whole other host of anti-social behavior when using public transport.
Mentally ill people can dress well and speak clearly btw, we're not all in rags and speaking gibberish. I only do that at the weekend.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Would those of you condemning this behaviour change your mind if it was leaflets, rather than spoken words?
I remember being on a bus during the lead up to the Iraq War, when lots of demos were taking place against it. A lady with a sheaf of papers was on board but, before getting off at her stop, she gave everyone an anti-war leaflet and also left them on the empty seats.
She got off before anyone could really react (though I think someone managed a 'would you like to live under Saddam Hussein'-type comment as she was stepping off).
I think what really irritated me - other than the littering - was that the lady had a really smug, self-satisfied look on her face (as these sorts of people sometimes do) and she was able to deliver her Parthian Shot without criticism.
I would have absolutely told said anti-war protestor to not give me a leaflet and leave me alone. I think bothering what is effectively a captive audience is wrong.
Also I have heard bus drivers tell people playing loud music, eating smelly food etc to stop all the time so I am surprised the OP hasn't seen that.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Definitely not. People on a bus in London want to get on with their life in peace. Ranting at them - for any reason, when they are captive, is unfair. I don't think it is tactically good either - people are probably not particularly receptive in this situation. It seems rather like chuggers, who put me off their charities rather than anything else.
The driver may have been over aggressive, but the indication is that they have had previous encounters - I guess she does this regularly, and she might not be amenable to polite suggestions. I think he is fully within his rights to maintain his bus as a peaceable transport. So he is within his rights, and does not have to accept carrying someone who is disturbing this peace.
If I was a driver, I would have told her to get the fuck off my bus or I would break her fucking neck. One reason why I am not in customer facing roles at all.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Mentally ill people can dress well and speak clearly btw, we're not all in rags and speaking gibberish. I only do that at the weekend.
So you wish me to say that this woman was mentally ill, when I know nothing about her in the slightest?
I thought saying she seemed totally in control of her mental faculties was fairer and more reasonable approach.
The motivation for the thread was, why was this woman abused by the bus driver when on a typical bus journey I observe many other anti-social behaviors that do not get the bus driver to pull over and jump out of his vestibule in a fit of rage.
Religion pushes buttons it seems. That's what I want to talk about. Not about the state of mental health treatment in Britain.
[ 17. February 2014, 14:07: Message edited by: seekingsister ]
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Reminds me of something that happened to me several years ago. I've told this story before but will repeat it for those who haven't seen it.
I was waiting for a bus one very rainy evening when a fellow waitee started preaching to me. I couldn't walk away, of course, and still catch my bus. After what seemed an interminable wait, finally the bus came. But it stopped several feet from the bus stop to discharge a passenger. I ran up to it and boarded, but the preacher decided to remain at the bus stop. Well, after I boarded, the driver went on, not stopping at the "real" stop and leaving the preacher standing there in the rain to wait for the next bus.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
It's confession time ...
I once 'preached' outside a busy students' union ... because it was the sort of thing we were expected/encouraged to do in the church circles I was involved with back then ...
I know some people who preached to the audience at the cinema before the movie started and then asked people to join afterwards for a discussion on how the film's themes fit into Christianity.
So I am personally not OK with the premise, anyone who preaches in public is mentally ill. Because as you mention it is something that certain groups do quite commonly and is encouraged.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
It's confession time ...
I once 'preached' outside a busy students' union ... because it was the sort of thing we were expected/encouraged to do in the church circles I was involved with back then ...
On one occasion, in between trains at a station I suddenly had this idea that I might be being 'prompted' to preach to the people on the platform ...
I had an adrenalin rush and was about to start when I thought better of it and didn't. The rest of the journey I struggled with guilt as to whether I'd disobeyed a 'prompting of the Spirit' and so on ...
Been there, done that, bought the soapbox ... (as a student preaching on Southampton's main street on Saturday nights, right opposite the queues of people waiting for the last buses home).
A story: during my time at a Bible College in Scotland in the mid-70s, three of us were on a train returning from a service. Two of us were English, one Korean. It was about 8.30 pm and most people were on their way back to the Smoke after a day by the seaside at Largs or Saltcoats.
The Korean guy went round the carriage sharing his faith in Jesus and asking if folk were "saved". Paul and I just pretended to melt into invisibility, but this was not easy as we were all wearing uniform maroon blazers. So we just cringed and - like Gamaliel - felt spiritually guilty throughout the journey, albeit with a certain self-righteous smugness when we saw our Korean friend's conversations getting nowhere.
Later he told us off for being students at a Missionary Training College (no less) who weren't willing to talk about our faith ...
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
quote:
The motivation for the thread was, why was this woman abused by the bus driver when on a typical bus journey I observe many other anti-social behaviors that do not get the bus driver to pull over and jump out of his vestibule in a fit of rage.
Well, according to your OP, the passenger apparently had a history of previous disruptive behavior on the driver's bus.
It's not "persecution of Christians." It's dealing with a serially obnoxious passenger -- and someone who, by the way, has the potential to set off an even more aggressive/disruptive person whose proverbial last nerve gets dangerously twanged by her ranting.
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Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
I know some people who preached to the audience at the cinema before the movie started and then asked people to join afterwards for a discussion on how the film's themes fit into Christianity.
That's OK, of course, if it was a special screening specifically for "enquirers" and they knew beforehand that this was going to happen, and had made their choice accordingly.
But not alright if it was a regular public performance.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Mentally ill people can dress well and speak clearly btw, we're not all in rags and speaking gibberish. I only do that at the weekend.
So you wish me to say that this woman was mentally ill, when I know nothing about her in the slightest?
I thought saying she seemed totally in control of her mental faculties was fairer and more reasonable approach.
The motivation for the thread was, why was this woman abused by the bus driver when on a typical bus journey I observe many other anti-social behaviors that do not get the bus driver to pull over and jump out of his vestibule in a fit of rage.
Religion pushes buttons it seems. That's what I want to talk about. Not about the state of mental health treatment in Britain.
Um no, I only wish you to not suggest that mental health can be diagnosed by dress or speech.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
There was maybe a history? I was on a tube journey to some outlying part of the network when a busker hopping on. Almost immediately there was a continuous announcement over the tannoy that busking was not allowed on this train we were not to give money to anyone attempting to solicit etc until the guy gave up and got off at the next stop. I felt I had just witnessed one episode in a long-drawn war.
Maybe this woman has been prophesying on this chap's bus before?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Um no, I only wish you to not suggest that mental health can be diagnosed by dress or speech.
I do not know if the woman was mentally ill, but in my uninformed unmedical opinion, she did not appear to be.
Any other issues with my diagnostic abilities, please PM me.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
Still, there are worse things than being preached at on a bus. During the tube strikes the other week, there was heavier traffic than normal. A "gang" got on and we were subjected to 2 and a half hours of their arguments and threats to "stab someone if this bus goes any ****ing slower."
Would have called the police if the place hadn't been gridlocked.
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Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Maybe this woman has been prophesying on this chap's bus before?
Oh certainly, he said as much. I don't normally take that bus, my normal route has been choked up with road works so it's entirely possible that she does this 3 times a week.
However on my normal bus, there is a large group of children on their way to school, who are loud and rude and blasting music, and I have not once seen any effort by a bus driver to control their behavior.
Of the many anti-social activities I've seen on London transport this lady was easily the least threatening. Last Friday there was a man on the train with his feet on a seat drinking a beer aggressively staring at everyone. I'd trade him with destiny woman any day.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
I think the real issue re this woman's mental health is not whether or not she had issues that her doctor was treating, which we cannot know at all, but whether she was untreated and out of control. I think that when people say she was not mentally ill, they mean she was not untreated and out of control. It's an easy shorthand, and I probably slip into it, but probably unfortunate because it implies that mentally ill people are generally untreated and out of control.
Having said that we should probably resist taking over this thread with a discussion of mental illness. Definitely a big enough topic on its own for multiple interesting threads!
[ 17. February 2014, 14:31: Message edited by: Gwai ]
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Public transportation puts people in a vulnerable position: crowded into a moving vehicle with an ever-changing group of strangers. There is potential for accident; there's potential for crime; there's potential for the sort of interpersonal friction/unpleasantness that happens when random, anxious human beings find themselves in a confined space with one another.
I think bus drivers are within their rights to restrict, as they can and as they see fit, behaviors on the bus that threaten their ability to maintain a degree of order and peace on the bus. And I think riders have an obligation, as part of the social contract, to help maintain a peaceful and orderly bus by not acting out on their potentially disruptive impulses.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Um no, I only wish you to not suggest that mental health can be diagnosed by dress or speech.
I do not know if the woman was mentally ill, but in my uninformed unmedical opinion, she did not appear to be.
Any other issues with my diagnostic abilities, please PM me.
I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that she was mentally ill. It was this sentence that made me think that:
quote:
She mentioned that she had a prophecy that someone on the bus's destiny had been blocked, and that there was an international fasting movement to combat this.
Seemed unusual to me.
But I understand that she did not appear abnormal and that this is not the point of the thread.
I would think, though, that bus drivers would be well within their rights to try to control any kind of behavior that bothers the passengers. People could, and no doubt do, use busses and trains to harangue the crowd for money, sell things, make political speeches, and any number of other things. But since I have seldom witnessed this I expect that it is somehow discouraged.
But in Ghana it was both entertaining and well accepted. ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I was on a tube journey to some outlying part of the network when a busker hopping on. Almost immediately there was a continuous announcement over the tannoy that busking was not allowed on this train we were not to give money to anyone attempting to solicit etc until the guy gave up and got off at the next stop. I felt I had just witnessed one episode in a long-drawn war.
Ah, you clearly know the District Line (the buskers' favourite) as well as I once did!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Preaching to a captive audience is wrong. It's taking advantage of their circumstances, and imposing your will on them when they cannot refuse. It's on the milder end of the same spectrum as kidnapping and rape, which also involve forcing your will on someone against their will. It's anti-Christian.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's on the milder end of the same spectrum as kidnapping and rape, which also involve forcing your will on someone against their will.
Erm, ok. But doesn't the comparison rather end there? Getting off a bus having been asked for money / given advice on eternal life / been given a leaflet doesn't really compare to getting off the floor after being physically violated, does it?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's on the milder end of the same spectrum as kidnapping and rape, which also involve forcing your will on someone against their will.
Erm, ok. But doesn't the comparison rather end there? Getting off a bus having been asked for money / given advice on eternal life / been given a leaflet doesn't really compare to getting off the floor after being physically violated, does it?
Hence "milder end of the spectrum", presumably.
I'd say it is very similar to non-physical sexual harrassment, though. A man making sexually suggestive comments to all the women on board wouldn't be tolerated, would it?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
I would think that yelling/gesticulating trumps aggressive staring as a disruptive influence on a bus.
I feel more threatened by a drunk guy staring at me, than by a 50-something woman who wants to go on a global fast. The woman is more annoying for sure, but I have headphones. Although I actually turned them off to listen to her because I was so surprised to hear someone start giving a speech on the bus, that I figured it would be something memorable.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Can't speak for anyone else, but I am not less willing to up with noisy or disruptive behaviour on a bus. But isually most folk react well to a one on one conversation and matters can be resolved that way.
The woman in question?
As mentioned, it appears that this sort of behaviour had happened before. So having already been asked by the driver to cease and desist...she tries again. In my experience, it takes quite a lot for a driver to get out of his seat and approach a nuisance passenger (there being guidelines about such matters), so in this instance the driver has my immediate sympathies.
And the woman has my long term sympathies as she quite obviously doesn't get "Acceptable Behaviour in Public Places."
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Hence "milder end of the spectrum", presumably.
SOMEbody gets it. Not sure why one would want to justify being on the spectrum at all.
[ 17. February 2014, 15:35: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Preaching on a bus is rather different from preaching in the street - as in the latter example, people are free to walk on by or slightly deviate their route. Perhaps to be fair to all, there need to be special 'preaching buses' where the people getting on know that they might be hailed by a speaker; they then have the right to choose that form or transport or wait for another bus. It would be very interesting to see if those buses became popular (perhaps with hecklers?) or whether they remained empty! Of course, to be fair to all - again - these preachers should not be specifically Christian but open to others with something to say, as well.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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