Ship of Fools: America's Mental Health System

Thread: America's Mental Health System Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=026891

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

Looks like we have an official okay to beat schizophrenics to death in California.

This seems to be the end result of closing the mental institutions and letting "the community," care for the mentally ill.

I can't quit thinking about the young man's father. In the video you can clearly hear him calling for his "Dad." The poor man will probably hear that in his dreams forever. I can just imagine all the years these parents tried to get help for their son and were turned away from hospitals because he wasn't "a danger to himself or others."

Maybe we should start treating other sick people this way. Maybe someone will write a book about a mean nurse in a cancer ward and all the cancer centers will be closed. The ER's can then refuse care to cancer patients unless they're threatening to kill themselves or someone else. Think of the money we'll save.

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Looks like we have an official okay to beat schizophrenics to death in California.

This seems to be the end result of closing the mental institutions and letting "the community," care for the mentally ill.

I can't quit thinking about the young man's father. In the video you can clearly hear him calling for his "Dad." The poor man will probably hear that in his dreams forever. I can just imagine all the years these parents tried to get help for their son and were turned away from hospitals because he wasn't "a danger to himself or others."

Maybe we should start treating other sick people this way. Maybe someone will write a book about a mean nurse in a cancer ward and all the cancer centers will be closed. The ER's can then refuse care to cancer patients unless they're threatening to kill themselves or someone else. Think of the money we'll save.

An OFFICIAL okay? Really? The cops were on trial for murder and a jury found them not guilty.

That isn't OFFICIAL, for fucks sake.

It's that kind of hyperbole that makes people like you look stupid.

You can query why a jury found them not guilty, but I don't think any part of the judicial system was sidestepped on OFFICIAL orders.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

It's hard to get more OFFICIAL than a legal precedent...

Posted by Niteowl (# 15841) on :

Living in a city nearby where the beating took place, I'm very disappointed in the verdict. The surveillance tapes (there was more than one) of the beating as well as the photo of the bloody pulp that was Kelly Thomas lying in his hospital bed pretty much tell the tale of homicide. Even our most right wing talk radio station that started out defending said cops ended up calling them murderers. How the jury came up with this travesty of justice verdict I'll never know. They're asking for their jobs back. I pray to God that never happens or we'll see this yet again.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I rarely cry when reading the Ship. On this occasion I did. For him, his father and for society.

[Tear]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by deano:

It's that kind of hyperbole that makes people like you look stupid.

I'll be watching deano's posts in future for the total absence of hyperbole. Oh, wait, stupidity can take other forms.

quote:

You can query why a jury found them not guilty, but I don't think any part of the judicial system was sidestepped on OFFICIAL orders.

Mostly because police occupy a position of trust and that ought to mean that any test of their actions has to clear a higher bar than the actions of ordinary citizens. Right at the moment that doesn't appear to be the case in the UK or US. The police could dismantle that position of trust on their own.

Meanwhile, [Mad]

and

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

This seems to be the end result of closing the mental institutions and letting "the community," care for the mentally ill.

Should we re-institutionalise?

I believe the philosophy for de-institutionalisation of a number of things ( including special needs kids at school) was that it was better for them.

Posted by Jon in the Nati (# 15849) on :

quote:
It's hard to get more OFFICIAL than a legal precedent.

A jury verdict is not a legal precedent, at least not in the US. It does not establish anything official, save for the guilt or innocence of the accused in that particular case.

There is no sense, rhetorical or otherwise, in which this verdict establishes that it is okay to kill the mentally ill (or whatever this thread is about).

[ 15. January 2014, 13:07: Message edited by: Jon in the Nati ]

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

This is not just America's problem. I saw this story yesterday. We have some similar stories, and other stories of judges trying to figure out what to do with, here, particularly Fetal Alcohol Syndrome affected people who are charged.

Mental health does not have the resources any more. They took public services as offered with provincial programs and put them into regional health authorities, a process repeated across provinces in Canada. I think I saw an estimate of some 1/3 of people in conflict with the law have mental health problems.

I agree with both the sadness and the anger on this. Our societies do not seem to care about the most unattractive and disadvantaged of us much any more, which never may have been much, but it's less now.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

This seems to be the end result of closing the mental institutions and letting "the community," care for the mentally ill.

Should we re-institutionalise?

I believe the philosophy for de-institutionalisation of a number of things ( including special needs kids at school) was that it was better for them.

Yes, I do believe in re-opening institutions for some mentally ill people. Of course, anyone who is capable of living on their own, in group housing or with their family, wouldn't need these institutions, but for people who are severely ill and unable to care for themselves properly, or either unresponsive to or non-compliant with medication, then absolutely -- I think they would be much better off in a safe institution than living terrified and hungry on the streets. The worst cases are the ones who end up warehoused in prisons without any psychiatric care at all.

As for hyperbole -- Neither Deano, nor anyone else on earth will ever make me stop! I'd rather die than give it up.

Posted by Soror Magna (# 9881) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
... I believe the philosophy for de-institutionalisation of a number of things ( including special needs kids at school) was that it was better for them.

The philosophy for deinstitutionalization was that it was better for them to be cared for in their community. Since community care was never put into place anywhere patients were deinstitutionalized, the only reason was obviously money. The deinstitutionalized mentally ill wander our streets, talking to themselves, begging, prostituting themselves, self-medicating with illegal drugs, occasionally getting a bed at a shelter, and yes, many are killed by police. The irony is that caring for homeless people in emergency rooms has turned out to be orders of magnitude more expensive than institutional care.

At the end of the day, though, it`s not the health system that`s the real problem. The real problem is simply society`s attitudes about mental illness. Mental illnesses are not considered to be real illnesses; instead, they`re considered to be a personal weakness, or attention-seeking, or malingering.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Re community care:

Here in California, the slip-up seems to have been that the patients had to go somewhere to get their meds, and there was no one to make sure that they did that. So they wound up off their meds. Their sickness resurfaced, and they didn't realize they needed their meds. Eventually, they wound up living on the streets.

I don't know what the solution is, but it sure isn't that.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

I don't know, ending up in prison rather does reinstitutionalise them anyway doesn't it?

If that is the case then surely for some it is a choice between institution.

Jengie

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

Soror Magna [Overused]

You posted nuch more clearly than I could have what I was thinking.

Huia

[ 16. January 2014, 08:49: Message edited by: Huia ]

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
Mental illnesses are not considered to be real illnesses; instead, they`re considered to be a personal weakness, or attention-seeking, or malingering.

Or frightening.

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :

A Virginia state senator was assaulted by his own son who suffered from mental illness:

http://tinyurl.com/npm5v8q

This is still a very live issue here.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

As for hyperbole -- Neither Deano, nor anyone else on earth will ever make me stop! I'd rather die than give it up.

Sometimes you rock. Twilight.

And deano? What Boogie said. Also, fuck you. I wouldn't piss on you if your heart was on fire.

[ 19. January 2014, 20:49: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :

What Kelly said.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
This is still a very live issue here.

It's funny how things are live issues when important people are affected by them, isn't it?

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :

For a start, calling it a "system" is paying it an undeserved compliment. "Morass" is more like it.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0