Thread: false security Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by pydseybare (# 16184) on :
 
You know that thing where the bank requires customers to jump through huge amounts of security proceedures - just to open an account - and then prints out a statement to anyone who comes in with a bank card without even checking the person's name? That.

You know that thing where the naked airport security scanners cannot even see a fucking sidearm? That.

You know that thing where those who callously collect and store mountains of pieces of individual data, only to tell you a few months down the line 'oh, sorry Sir, someone has hacked into our database'. Fucking-A.

And while we're at it,

You know that thing where the bank which previously told you it was proudly ethical in it's behaviour but cannot distinguish between you and your brother because you share an initial? That same bank that it turned out had a fucking huge hole in its accounts and was being run by someone on coke? That.

For fuck's sake. Is this the future? That we're enticed by ever more inventive forms of advertising, fancy sounding interest-rates and jiggery-pokery to give them their money, only to find that they can't keep hold of it securely.

And finally: Whilst I appreciate your long years of service and I accept that you were doing your best, the fact the credit union you were running went bust shows that having two elderly ladies and a retired general is not a way to run a financial institution that people depend upon.

I mean, really.
 

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Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on :
 
Sounds like you've had a tough time of it. Perhaps leave the firearms at home next time?
 

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Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
I was phoned by an investment firm where I have a few savings a couple of days ago. There was no caller ID. The conversation began like this:

Caller: Hello, Mr Eutychus, I'm from Moneybags Investments and I'm just checking our details. To make sure I'm talking to the right person, please confirm your account number.

Me: Hello. To confirm you are who you say you are, please tell me that information, not the other way around.

It went steadily downhill from there.

It gets me how banks are always so hysterical about customers ensuring they keep their details safe and get so uppity when customers try to verify their credentials.

[ 17. February 2014, 09:38: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
 

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Posted by pydseybare (# 16184) on :
 
I usually say I'll phone them back for security purposes and ask for the department from the main switchboard.

But I semi-regularly get automatic phonecalls from the bank telling me that there is an unusual payment on my account - because I happen to have bought something in France without their permission. One is supposed to press buttons or something to prove something-or-other.

These seem to me to be inherrently unsafe. Are they living on some other planet where they don't get spam phone calls every five minutes?
 

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Posted by pydseybare (# 16184) on :
 
And if any fucking supermarket attempts to give me a fake (or shitty-looking) banknote, I am totally within my rights to refuse to accept it. I don't give a shit what the person at the till thinks or how much the people behind complain.

FFS, what is wrong with people?
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
And furthermore, if you fail to respond to their hysterical demand that you immediately fax the status of your mother's maiden name to a secure number because they think there is unauthorized activity on around and near your account, nothing happens, they just forget it. Like when internet banking says it doesn't recognize the pc you're using (rubbish) if you go back a page and resubmit, that box disappears.
And I never give my details to a cold caller.
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I had a run in with an Ulster banknote issued by a machine at a supermarket (I have no worries about Scottish, but I had got through my life without ever coming across an Ulster one before). I got it changed, but the woman told me the machine would not accept such notes! So how did it get to give it to me?
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
I have not posted in Hell for 5 years. But I am joining this one to swear at my bank as well, and its stupid ridiculous systems.

If my bank finds unusual activity on my card, they freeze it. Fair enough: they are keeping an eye on things, and a call sorts it out. So when I was going overseas, I popped in to inform them that there would indeed be 'unusual activity' on my card for the next 10 days, and not to worry.

Nevertheless, they froze my account, and I had to spend £20 on a mobile phone call from Israel to reassure them that yes indeed, I was in Israel, like I had told them I would be, and it was indeed me who was using my card (perfectly normally) in Israel.

Now they tell me that they have no system for putting any kind of note by my name, so that every single time I go overseas, I have to live with the exhilarating danger of having my account frozen. Because, as they told me during that £20 phonecall, your card could get stolen in Israel too, you know. Because somehow they can't tell the difference between perfectly usual activity and unusual activity when it's in Israel, as opposed to at home.

Oh, and guess what. My mobile is pay-as-you-go-emergencies-only, and it was fucking lucky that I had topped it up enough before leaving for Israel, because guess what: my account was frozen and I wouldn't have been able to have topped it up to phone the bank about my account being frozen.

Yeah, I know, I should change banks. But they all look kind of the same from where I'm standing.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
Don't even get me started on Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce. This is the first year that I have been in India and not yet had to telephone them at least twice to tell them to stop playing silly buggers with my card. One year they even froze it mid-stay and I could not even use it again until I was back in Canada and could scream of their so-called "Customer Care".

On the other hand I still have two months and a bit to go, so I will keep you posted.


 

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Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by pydseybare:

The fact the credit union you were running went bust shows that having two elderly ladies and a retired general is not a way to run a financial institution that people depend upon.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Twilight:

quote:

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Originally posted by pydseybare:

The fact the credit union you were running went bust shows that having two elderly ladies and a retired general is not a way to run a financial institution that people depend upon.

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I was with you every step of the way until the elderly ladies. As one of those things myself, I can tell you my banking skills were meticulous and uncompromising when it came to security -- much to the scorn of the young 'uns who called me Miss Priss and thought I should chillax.

It's those elderly men that bring down the banks with their greedy schemes and insider old boy favors.

{Love your signature.]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I love all the financial institutions and medical institutions who when I call ask me to verify I'm me by giving my social security. As if that's any deep secret in the age of the internet.

The technical term for this and the airport screenings is "Security Theater". It's a little drama to show you they know they have security problems and are happy to do meaningless rituals to reassure you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
I was phoned by an investment firm where I have a few savings a couple of days ago. There was no caller ID. The conversation began like this:

Caller: Hello, Mr Eutychus, I'm from Moneybags Investments and I'm just checking our details. To make sure I'm talking to the right person, please confirm your account number.

Me: Hello. To confirm you are who you say you are, please tell me that information, not the other way around.

It went steadily downhill from there.

It gets me how banks are always so hysterical about customers ensuring they keep their details safe and get so uppity when customers try to verify their credentials.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
Now they tell me that they have no system for putting any kind of note by my name,

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quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
(I got caught with this so much in my previous role I signed up for US banking services and had a US credit card simply because the NatWest caused me problems when I tried to buy some guitar strings in a guitar shop in Nashville!).

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Maybe they thought you were going to play country & western, and decided that you had to be stopped, whatever it took
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by no prophet:
Banking may be different in different countries, but it is not possible in my Canadian bank to get a print out of anything without either a bank card and PIN (the bank card password), or knowing your full bank card number and your PIN. You have to scan the card and put in the PIN before you get anything from a teller if you're doing things in person.

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It's like that here too, except my late father used to go to his local Post bank and they'd say "hello Brian, how much do you want out?" When I raised te idea of an ATM card he said, "but they all know me here" which is some ways is the ultimate security. Not as useful when travelling or in cities though.

Huia
 

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Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
Yea and amen to the above.

Can I add to this my dear and wonderful bank who rang me up with security concerns after I tried to make a donation to a preaching website I use (the transaction was declined and they rang up about 3 nanoseconds later). Despite being able to confirm every single one of the transactions they mentioned, they still decided to block my card, leaving me with no means of getting cash out or buying anything.


 

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Posted by Molopata The Rebel (# 9933) on :
 
Just before going abroad I made a few purchases online, and the good ol RBS enacted a block on my bank account until I told a robot which called me what my birthday was. Problem was, they had fucked up my data and changed the date unilaterally goodness knows how. This came to light when I tried to pick up the car from its MOT and my card bounced. The garage mechanic called the bank and put me on the line to the agent who told me to tell her my secret password. Given there were by now about 4 other customers in the office, I declined, whereupon she intructed the mechanic to destroy my card.

I later phoned up customers' complaints, finally got some sense into them, but was given the reply that they couldn't get me a new card before I left for abroad. In fact, they didn't even try to act like they were trying to help me until I reminded them of their bank motto, "Make it happen". Guess what? They didn't.

I'm not making this up.
 

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Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Stejjie:
Yea and amen to the above.

Can I add to this my dear and wonderful bank who rang me up with security concerns after I tried to make a donation to a preaching website I use (the transaction was declined and they rang up about 3 nanoseconds later). Despite being able to confirm every single one of the transactions they mentioned, they still decided to block my card, leaving me with no means of getting cash out or buying anything.

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quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
Let me tell you a few things. I've worked in banks for about half my working life (about 20 years so fucking far!) and I get these problems.

I've known directors of both HSBC and Lloyds whinge about their own personal banking, even when they are classed as "persons of significant wealth".

But any financial organisation is between a rock and a hard place. If they allow any fraud on your account you will be more pissed off, and the fines that can be levelled are huge, not to mention bad publicity and loss of confindence which leads to loss of business.

So they err on the side of caution, which pisses people off but doesn't lead to the "bad things" that would happen if they were more trusting/lax (delete as appropriate).

Yes there are some issues such as notification of being in a different country being ignored (I got caught with this so much in my previous role I signed up for US banking services and had a US credit card simply because the NatWest caused me problems when I tried to buy some guitar strings in a guitar shop in Nashville!).

Some things can and should be fixed, but the banks will not ease up very much on security. I would NOT bank with one that did.

If anyone has any suggestions for fixing these things then let us know.

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quote:

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And I agree with the phone calls where the company asks you to provide information. I love these when I'm in the mood. You can do all sorts, provide fake details, ask them for their personal PIN number to verify who they are. The one that frightens them the most is telling them you are recording the call for training and legal purposes. That's always amusing.

Instead of just hanging up or shouting, there should be a concerted campaign to keep these people on the phone as long as possible. That will reduce their call rate and the companies will sack them. Then eventually the companies themselves will get the message that their model is no longer fit for purpose.

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quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
Of course fraud always happens because the fraudsters are ahead of the banks and the banks play catch-up,

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deano aren't a few of them in said banks. There is the deferred prosecution agreement singed by HSBC to sort out that money that just happened to go through the washing machine. Who have guessed those nice Mexican gentlemen were actually Colombian Marching powder salesmen.

Not to mention allegation's regarding RBS recent record with SMSEs?
JP Morgan are still settling as of the 4th another 614million to be paid to the US for underwriting sub-standard mortgage loans. Have Reuters got it wrong? Cause there calling it mortgage fraud.
linky-poo

Were you just thinking of the small-time variety of fraud mate?

[edited for weird codefux. what did you think you were doing?!? Get thee to the UBB practice thread, eejit. -comet, Hellhost]

[ 19. February 2014, 21:07: Message edited by: comet ]
 

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Posted by deano (# 12063) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chill:

quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
Of course fraud always happens because the fraudsters are ahead of the banks and the banks play catch-up,

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deano aren't a few of them in said banks. There is the deferred prosecution agreement singed by HSBC to sort out that money that just happened to go through the washing machine. Who have guessed those nice Mexican gentlemen were actually Colombian Marching powder salesmen.

Not to mention allegation's regarding RBS recent record with SMSEs?
JP Morgan are still settling as of the 4th another 614million to be paid to the US for underwriting sub-standard mortgage loans. Have Reuters got it wrong? Cause there calling it mortgage fraud.

link repair part 2
Were you just thinking of the small-time variety of fraud mate?

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quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
Yes it is small-time stuff we are talking about on this thread. Which bit is confusing you?

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Just observing the irony no confusion It was just an aside. I take your point about auditable deniability of culpability and legal compliance. I was just amused by the notion of Banks struggling to keep up with fraud in the current financial climate.

I am not confused just amused mate. The image of banks struggling to keep up with fraud had me snorting my tea when I read it. Like Usain Bolt getting overtaken by an egg and spoon race.

Chaz
 

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Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :
 
I was on a trip. Got home to find an email from my ABC credit card co saying they suspect a problem, call this number. Why shouldn't I assume it's a pfish? But I called, he said ABC credit card security please give credit card number and social security number for verification. I said, I'm responding to an email, I don't know if it's legit or not, so I'll hang up and call the number on the back of the card.

The call turned out to be legit, someone had used my number to buy $5000 of t-shirts. They asked if it was me but had already blocked a second similar purchase, no accusations that I must have done it. But really, an email saying what a pfish says? you'd think they'd tell me to call the number on the credit card, not trust an email.

A friend discovered someone was using her Visa number to open instant credit accounts and buy computers, furniture, the purchases and shipping address 3 states away from her. She protested, credit card co insisted she was the one making the purchases. She's never been to that state. Lots of fighting and them accusing her.

She had to make police reports before they would agree to write it off, she said you know his address go get him, they said no, too much work. So the thief at a known address got to keep it all.

They finally agreed to issue her a new credit card number just before a trip - it was used by someone before it even arrived in the mail!

I travel with two credit cards kept in separate places when traveling. I've heard too many stories of someone suddenly having a card unexpectedly blocked, or a wallet stolen with all the cards.
 

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Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Whenever I get a call from bank or card people and they so the security bit, I go through their hoops, then ask them to prove they are who they say they are.

9 times out of 10 this ends the call. One bank called me 'difficult' after I did this and cited as evidence the fact that THEY had the wrong maiden name for my mother. When a 'supervisor' called me to tka ehte matter further, we had to do the whole thing again - this time they altered my year of birth; even when I pointed out that I was older than 8 they didn't seem to get it

At the moment one credit card company this I'm dead - they keep sending me stuff as ** (deceased); meanwhile another won't cancel my late-lamented's card because they aren't authorised to speak or write to me - and please could they speak to the cardholder. So far I've sent 3 copies of the death certificate but no joy getting through to them.
 

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Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
Caller: Hello, Mr Eutychus, I'm from Moneybags Investments and I'm just checking our details. To make sure I'm talking to the right person, please confirm your account number.

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