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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Tony Benn - British politician
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Tubifex Maximus
Shipmate
# 4874
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Posted
Tony Benn, the veteran British politician, has died.
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Sit down, Oh sit down, sit down next to me.
Posts: 400 | From: Manchester | Registered: Aug 2003
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Another great man of the left, who stood up for what he believed. A sad loss to politics, Another sad loss to the radical left.
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
A practising Christian too. He said on more than one occasion that his faith influenced his political views and that he found the four giospels and the book of Genesis more inspiring than the writings of the likes of Karl Marx.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
I went to see him "on tour", where he packed the largest concert venue in the North East.
It was brilliant - political discourse as it was meant to be, opinion given without fear or favour. I fear we'll never see his like again.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
I admired Tony Benn more than any other politician - a man who practised what he preached, and preached straightforward common sense in a world of spin and confusion.
He is a sad loss to the Left and to Britain.
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
Tony Benn was my hero from when I was a child. A man of principle, intelligence, thoughtfulness and a wonderful speaker.
I will sadly miss him and the world of politics in the UK is much worse off without him. ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I know my late grandparents will have the kettle on and ready for him.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
He was my hero, too - a man of huge integrity. A great loss for the British political scene.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Tony Benn proved that greatness and integrity are inseparable: you can never achieve greatness without integrity, and he was a great man and a great politician.
I grieve for British politics without him and his like.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
He was definitely influenced more by Methodism than by Marx, which we can't say about many (any?) recent Labour parliamentarians.
It's a real shame that Labour weren't led by him and Denis Healey back in the early eighties as Thatcher's Tory government would have had a much harder time.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I'm not entirely convinced Tony Benn would have made a great party leader, much less Prime Minister (though, probably better than some of the people we got). A political party is a coalition of groups and individuals with a range of political positions, albeit positions that are similar enough for them to be identified as a single party. For any member of that party there will be times when the views of the majority are at odds with your personal position. There's no problem there for most members of the party. But, the leader of the party has to represent the whole of the party, and there will be times when that means compromising personal policies when the majority of the party think otherwise. Tony Benn was not very good at compromising personal convictions - it's part of what made him an unusual and highly respected politician, but was never going to make leading the Labour Party something he'd be good at.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
/Labour leadership tangent
I was thinking of Tony Benn as deputy to Denis Healey, in the "nice cop" role.
I'm not sure Healey and Benn could have handled it though, even though it would have been uncomfortable for the "other side". If only ...
/end Labour leadership tangent
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
IMO, the greatest Labour leader of recent time, and the one who I think would have made an outstanding PM, was John Smith.
But, perhaps we should remember one great Labour politician at a time.
Tony Benn, RIP ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I do not think it does any good for those with a prophetic tendency to have top leadership roles. They require the distance from power that is denied such leaders. In other words, Benn would not have been Benn if he had been party leader or Prime-minister. I think the country would have been the poorer if that was the case.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It's a real shame that Labour weren't led by him and Denis Healey back in the early eighties as Thatcher's Tory government would have had a much harder time.
And an even bigger landslide majority?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Benn and Healey cordially detested one another. I would expand on this but All Saints is not the venue for citing the catty bits of Healey's memoirs.
I'm not sure I ever wanted Tony Benn to become Prime Minister but he was a good man and an ornament to British public life. He will be missed.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
I did not often find myself anywhere close to agreement with Tony Benn's political opinions, but he was a decent, honest, honourable man of integrity, and the political sphere is all the stronger for having people like that, of whatever political stripe. Unfortunately, such people are in rather short supply.
He will be missed.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I agree with LC - although Mr. Benn's political views were not mine, I admired his integrity for sticking to his principles even when they were no longer in fashion.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
I enjoyed reading this article by Iain Martin in the Telegraph today about the three phases to Benn's life.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
He was an inspiration for people across the generations. My parents-in-law admired him, we admired him and one of my daughter's proudest moments was introducing him on stage at a radical event last year. He was a man of principle who never ceased to be impressed by young people's ideas and radicalism. Very few 80yr olds can hold the attention of a room full of 20 and 30 yr olds. A great loss to the left, he once said that his mother had told him that all decisions (including political ones) were at heart moral decisions. Were you doing the right thing? Good advice,
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
He was certainly a very good speaker, but I always saw a certain ambivalence in him about the role of the Labour Party. Certainly, he was a minister in a Labour govt, so I guess he saw that as the solution early in his career, although I don't know whether he changed his mind on that later. But it always made me question where he was coming from. But then I guess this is an insoluble problem for the Left, maybe. Is the aim to run capitalism better than the Tories? Or to run a capitalism-lite with a welfare state?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
A man of honour who worked to get the best for other people. He managed to be both eloquent and abrupt at the same time, not afraid to speak bluntly.
What has hit me today are the number of people who say he wrote lengthy replies to their letters when they were teenagers interested in politics.
Farewell to a good man. ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
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===( )
(Mr Benn's pipe)
[ 15. March 2014, 09:36: Message edited by: Wesley J ]
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
A sad loss to his family.
I'm impressed with the way that the right wing media and politicians have restrained themselves - in marked contrast to the waspish crowing after the death of Margaret Thatcher.
But you are mistaken if you think Mr Benn was a Christian: one of parents was a personal friend and he was quite adamant that while he respected the principles of Methodism, and had a little time for some of the rest, he did not believe in Christ, or accept the Christian model as being the best for society.
I think that makes him an un-believer, don't you?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I once heard him speak and he was terrific. That old style political oratory, honed on the soap-box and in debate.
On that occasion he spoke a little about his debt to Christian influences but made it clear that he wasn't a believer in the 'supernatural' sense.
I'm glad to have heard him. One of the greats.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
But you are mistaken if you think Mr Benn was a Christian: one of parents was a personal friend and he was quite adamant that while he respected the principles of Methodism, and had a little time for some of the rest, he did not believe in Christ, or accept the Christian model as being the best for society.
I think that makes him an un-believer, don't you?
Interesting. I distinctly remember a radio interview where he spoke at length about how his Christian faith influenced his political views
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I think it is probably better to say that his views were derived from his Christian heritage, and that he would express support for the principles of Christianity, even if his personal position might not be one of faith.
Which is a whole lot more honest than so many.
My son has heard him speak a couple of times. I am glad that his ideas and vision have been passed onto another generation, and he has very much aligned himself in that sort of direction.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
But you are mistaken if you think Mr Benn was a Christian: one of parents was a personal friend and he was quite adamant that while he respected the principles of Methodism, and had a little time for some of the rest, he did not believe in Christ, or accept the Christian model as being the best for society.
I think that makes him an un-believer, don't you?
Interesting. I distinctly remember a radio interview where he spoke at length about how his Christian faith influenced his political views
Well it did - but he said he had no time for this stuff about jests being the son of God - it was his teachings that mattered.
I tend to agree with the sentiment behind it but it's not mainstream.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I think it is probably better to say that his views were derived from his Christian heritage, and that he would express support for the principles of Christianity, even if his personal position might not be one of faith.
A politician, or anyone else, could not ask for a much better epitaph than that.
I remember him, from my youthful conservative days, as a breath of fresh air, personal energy, and decency during the dark times of Harold Wilson, of whom I still can't find anything good to say. To give Wilson one small bit of credit, he came up with a magnificent insult, "He immatures with age." Benn must have enjoyed that.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
It might be prudent to remember that Mr Wedgwood Benn was, first and foremost, a politician, and that it was probably political consideration that caused him to have deleted from his entry in Who's Who the fact that he went to Westminster School and Oxford.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Dusting off and donning the Hostly Quaker Hat
L'organist, the convention here on the Ship is that obituary threads are generally positive in style and that if people wish to denigrate or negatively critique the departed this should be done elsewhere, namely by starting a thread in Hell. You are welcome to do this if you so wish - but be aware that this is not the place.
Welease Woderwick
All Saints Host
Removes Hostly Quaker Hat and replaces it in the cupboard
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
he said he had no time for this stuff about jests being the son of God
So he didn't like Ship of Fools?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
This probably sounds facile, but I thought his interview with Ali G was a crowning glory in his post-parliamentry career. Most interviewees got tricked by Ali G's put-on naivete and were drawn into Ali G's world of ridiculous arguments that exposed their own bigotry as much as his spoof bigotry.
Tony Benn treated him respectfully but vigorously opposed Ali G's world view and I thought appeared incredibly genuine about it. I understand that Tony Benn was hopping mad afterwards when he realised he'd been taken in, but actually I think he did himself an enormous amount of good with a section of society that otherwise wouldn't have listened to him.
And while singing Tony Benn's praises for how genuine he was, I also remember the story of how he got his first seat as an MP - having been banned because of his peerage despite winning the election, he campaigned successfully to be allowed to renounce his peerage. The day that the act was passed allowing this, the runner-up in the election (who was by then in post) immediately resigned, triggering a by-election that Tony Benn won. That was Malcolm St Clair, a Conservative party member, who was clearly another very principled and honourable man.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I didn't realize either, that obits here had to be positive. Ah well, Tony would have been scornful of that, but I will abide by it.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
I don't agree with some of what Benn said - he's further to the let than me, but he was a man with great integrity. I wish there were more with this integrity around.
A sad loss to British politics.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
[QUOTE]Well it did - but he said he had no time for this stuff about jests being the son of God - it was his teachings that mattered.
I tend to agree with the sentiment behind it but it's not mainstream.
Neither mainstream nor correct.
Benn may have given up his title but he didn't give up his wealth (nor was her prepared to do so): that still doesn't resonate well with the few remaining socialists in the uk. Another champagne socialist rather more to the right than some of us.
[ 16. March 2014, 16:28: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
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===( )
(Mr Benn's pipe)
He always reckoned it helped keep Alzheimer's away.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Not as simple as people would think, Benn on Jesus. His last sentence is the problem as it has the phrase "the responsibilities that Jesus has imposed upon me".
Then Benn never was simple.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Then Benn never was simple.Jengie
True - he certainly wriggled on the issue of the redistribution of his personal wealth and power. The argument that he needed it to help others has mileage but doesn't hold water IMHO. He wanted his cake off a silver platter and to eat it as well.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
Please may I remind people of Welease Woderwick's host post further up this page. Political discussion belongs in Purgatory or Hell, not here.
Spike
SoF Admin
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I liked him. He had an unusual capacity for candour. His radio diaries have been very illuminating, benefitted from his own reading. Politics has moved on, there seems to be less room for the genuine maverick these days, more's the pity. Tony Benn was always worth listening to, whether you agreed with him or not, and very rarely ducked direct questions. Which made him pretty rare even during his time in government , and even rarer now in this era of news management.
RIP, Tony, and enjoy your eternal discussions with the one-time Carpenter of Nazareth.
[ 17. March 2014, 10:32: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
I was outside Number 10 one cold night, in a queue of people. I was with a friend who had been invited by the Prime Minister to a reception, and was keepimg her company as she awaited admission.
Lots of well known people/ important looking people strode past and into Number 10.
Tony Benn appeared. He took his time, spoke to any of us who showed an interest, and kissed me after I reminded him how much his support during the miners strike had meant to those of us living in the coal field ares.
A lovely man.
[ 17. March 2014, 20:33: Message edited by: The Weeder ]
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Still missing the gator
Posts: 2542 | From: LaLa Land | Registered: Apr 2006
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
A classic comment from a classy individual. Thanks, mdijon. (Heffer was another maverick of course.)
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
I encountered him once during my student days at TCD when he came over to speak about the union movement and Northern Ireland-- his thesis that the North should address itself to social inequity and that the UK link and the republican movement were both blocks to that, was reasonable enough.
However, he dined on commons in the dining hall at a students' table (not high table) and I was seated at the far end, about 5 or 6 places down, so did not hear much of what was said. On the way out he was accosted by a lubricated undergraduate who had an Irish viscounty and complained to him that it was sad that he had left the Lords as it would have been much more fun if had stayed. Benn said that he was having plenty of fun where he was and advised the young peer that he would really enjoy himself greatly on the hustings-- nothing was better than an election.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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