Thread: Lent 2014 Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
Just wondering what congregations are doing for Lent. (For non Conformists that should read " What if anything!!")

My shacks are following a course on The Parables of the Kingdom. I produced it in the hope that some might welcome an "extra" by way of a discipline during Lent

Other ideas for Lent welcome
 
Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :
 
I did have an idea of giving up nonconformism, but wanted to do this as a tradition swap. No takers though as yet, unless anyone here is up for it?
 
Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :
 
Apparently we're going to be doing something based on Les Miserables. Yawn - the Gospel According to Victor Hugo anyone?
 
Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Is there a topic for debate being proposed on this thread? If people are just being invited to share the title of their pending Lent course, then this doesn't look much like a Purg thread and should probably be moved.

Eliab
Purgatory Host
 
Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
We can have a debate.

Should we take any notice of Lent? Or should we just ignore it?

If we are going to take notice then what's on offer?
 
Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :
 
Is Gordo coming back? [Eek!]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
We can have a debate.

Should we take any notice of Lent? Or should we just ignore it?
"Lent, what a stupid concept." That was a cracking thread, engendered a great sense of solidarity. After reading that thread, even people who'd never tried Lent before felt the urge to rush off and give things up and start being penitential. Giving up reading Gordon's posts was one sacrifice that appealed to many.
 
Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
Not sure what the hell we are talking about. A long lost thread?
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Yes, Gordon Cheng of immortal memory had no time for Lent and started a thread with the title I've given above. It generated quite a lot of discussion, mostly one-sided, Gordon v Rest of the World.

I suppose there are other Christians that don't bother with Lent but admit to some surprise that anyone would ask the questions "Should we take any notice of Lent? Or should we just ignore it? If we are going to take notice then what's on offer?"

Why do you think we should entertain the possibility of just ignoring Lent and what do you propose we do instead?
 
Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :
 
This post is dedicated to the memory of Gordito.

We run small group studies over six weeks, partially to honour lent but more an excuse to build community. Often the people continue to attend post lent as they find they enjoy each other's company.
 
Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :
 
In our shack we continue a number of Lenten traditions, finding that the season is a good way of focusing light on different areas of our corporate and individual lives. So should we observe Lent - darn right we should!

One thing I would add at this stage - Lent is not just about giving up things, it is also about finding time for other things: hence why we have a study group focusing on world issues (this year we are using, for the first time, the Archbishop of Canterbury's Lent book, 'Looking Through the Cross' to encourage and engage in a deeper form of examination and consideration), and each Sunday we will have a special sermon series, utilizing the texts of the day focused through our topic discussion.
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Yes, Gordon Cheng of immortal memory had no time for Lent and started a thread with the title I've given above. It generated quite a lot of discussion, mostly one-sided, Gordon v Rest of the World.
He didn't do it just once; he did it at least two years in a row, maybe more.

If he had just started one thread saying he thought Lent was pointless at best, that would have been one thing. However, he just kept banging on about Lent being pointless, evil, whatever.

Moo
 
Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
I should perhaps just point out that since Gordon Cheng is banned, he's not in a position to respond, so we'd probably do well to keep this debate firmly in the present - and him out of it.

If it helps (?) I do not observe Lent, although my church does tend to do a special Easter service. I don't mind anyone else observing it but I and the church tradition I originally hail from (Brethren) never have done.

[ 25. February 2014, 21:11: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
I apologize.

Moo
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
We shall be doing our usual Lenten ecumenical Tuesday evening services with our covenant partners in the local Catholic, Uniting and Baptist parishes. The rule is that clergy do not preach in their own church. In Holy Week, we shall have our own evening Eucharists daily, with reflections.
 
Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
I would be very interested in why some do not observe Lent. Apart from saying that they don't observe it. Reasons?

Presumably they don't observe Advent as well.

So maybe they just observe Christmas Day and Easter Day and Pentecost Sunday with no prior preparation at all.

But Jesus spent 40 days and 40 nights in preparation for His ministry prior to launching a campaign in Galilee. To my mind it was a critical time of preparation; a time in which to get His priorities sorted.

Or was that not necessary?
 
Posted by Morgan (# 15372) on :
 
We will have study groups looking at Stephen Cottrell's book The Nail. It is very Lenten/cross focused, with scripture readings and meditations denying or accepting guilt and responsibility from the viewpoint of different identities (Peter, a centurion, Pilate, Caiaphas, Judas, Mary Magdalene, Pilate's wife). These lend themselves to discussion at different levels. Each book was given out with a large nail to hold as a concrete "reality of it all" reminder. Rather the opposite of a holding cross - a discomfort. Looking forward to it.
 
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
I would be very interested in why some do not observe Lent. Apart from saying that they don't observe it. Reasons?
Can't be arsed, mostly. The rest of my reasons boil down to not really seeing the point.

I have no problem with other people observing Lent, and I'd never dream of telling them not to, but it's just not something that has any interest for me.
 
Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
I would be very interested in why some do not observe Lent. Apart from saying that they don't observe it. Reasons?
Can't see the point. But then I also have problems seeing the point of fasting. Being hungry is going to make me focus on food, not God.

quote:
Presumably they don't observe Advent as well.
Correct.

quote:
So maybe they just observe Christmas Day and Easter Day and Pentecost Sunday with no prior preparation at all.
Correct about Christmas and Easter. We don't observe Pentecost.

quote:
But Jesus spent 40 days and 40 nights in preparation for His ministry prior to launching a campaign in Galilee. To my mind it was a critical time of preparation; a time in which to get His priorities sorted.
That's a non sequiter. Jesus spent 40 days, once, preparing for a his entire ministry. How does it then follow that we should spend 40 days, every year, preparing for Easter weekend?

Isn't the Lenten tradition more a consequence of this time of year being a very lean time for food in a traditional agricultural economy?

[ 25. February 2014, 22:09: Message edited by: Dal Segno ]
 
Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
I would be very interested in why some do not observe Lent. Apart from saying that they don't observe it. Reasons?
As I said, essentially I come from a tradition that doesn't. I suspect that for those who do, the essential reason is that they come from a tradition that does. Impasse.
quote:
But Jesus spent 40 days and 40 nights in preparation for His ministry prior to launching a campaign in Galilee. To my mind it was a critical time of preparation; a time in which to get His priorities sorted.

Or was that not necessary?
Dal Segno has already pointed out what's wrong with this line of reasoning. I see the Bible as largely descriptive and not prescriptive. If we choose to celebrate a particular biblical event at a particular time, that's fine by me; but going from there to imposing an entire liturgical calendar seems a bit of a leap to me.

(In France not observing Lent is also simply about Not Being A Catholic™. Almost all the most traditional protestant churches, let alone the younger breeds, do far less for Lent than their counterparts in the English-speaking world. Those who do the most are the Lutherans, who hail from eastern France where there are more protestants anyway and highlighting differences is less important to asserting a distinctive identity.)

[ 26. February 2014, 05:10: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dal Segno:
Can't see the point. But then I also have problems seeing the point of fasting. Being hungry is going to make me focus on food, not God.
One of the points of Lent is to get away from or put aside the things that unnecessarily clutter up day to day life, in order to focus on hearing God more clearly. This is why some people go on retreats.

Fasting can make you focus on what you really need to eat as opposed to the three meals a day plus snacks, bars of chocolate, bags of crisps and soft drinks that tend to punctuate daily life sometimes. Doing without can give you more of a sense of how the less privileged part of the world has to live, as well. What you do with the money saved is up to you, obviously, but some people donate it to charity.

Lent isn’t just about giving up things that you don’t really need, it can also be about giving up things that you value or enjoy for the duration, or taking things on – making an effort to give to charity/do something helpful each day/try forgiving someone who annoys you/refuse to rise to provocation/whatever.
 
Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
But none of the above need to happen at a set time of year, or when everyone else is doing them.
 
Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :
 
I would largely agree with Dal Segno and Eutychus. There is no biblical imperative for lent to be observed. The idea of linking it to Jesus' 40 days in the desert is a post-hoc rationalisation. Had his 40 days been in the immediate run-up to his death and resurrection, then there may be a case. But they happened years apart and there's no evidence to support the idea that they occurred around the same time of year.

There is also little evidence (except for that below) which indicates that the early church paid particular notice to Christmas or Easter. They were much more concerned with being a new community.

The only time we get an indication about keeping special dates was in Paul's letter to the Galatians, where he is quite exasperated that they are observing special days:
quote:
You are observing special days, and months, and seasons, and years. I am afraid that my work for you may have been wasted.
If activities undertaken or abstained from during lent strengthen a community then that is all for the good. But from a nonconformist perspective, it seems weird to suggest that only happens at one time of the year. Like a new years' resolution, it's timing is arbitrary. We can get on and be a community any time we like, not dictated to by an elaborate calculation with a calendar.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Lent is the commemoration of the time spent in the wilderness before the run up to Jesus’s last days and the Resurrection – that’s how I see it, anyhow. You could fit it in during Advent, which used to be a sort of Lenten time as well, but it would be a bit odd to do Lent over Easter itself, in the summer, during harvest time, or in the few days’ run up to Christmas as it isn't a one-day thing but a 40-day period. When would you envisage would be a good period of the year to fit it in?

Of course you could do a shorter one, but 40 days actually concentrates the mind quite nicely and gives you a chance to break with some habits, should you wish to do so, or develop helpful ones that focus you more towards what you can do for others; and it works well as a focus towards the culmination of the Crucifixion. The joy is all the greater at Easter and the appreciation of the wonder of the Resurrection the more so because you have, in some sense, walked part of the journey of the Cross, day by day for some weeks, yourself.

If you do it by yourself it becomes a strictly individual thing and I would say that it could potentially be harder to handle because you are doing it alone, out of step with the season of the year when there are others around doing it and the retreats, meditations etc are available for you at that time. Also, Lent is pretty much geared towards Easter as its climax and it would be a bit dissonant to not have Easter at the end of it.
 
Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Lent is the commemoration of the time spent in the wilderness before the run up to Jesus’s last days and the Resurrection – that’s how I see it, anyhow.
But see TheAlethiophile's comment. The gospels place the wilderness time before the start of Jesus' ministry, not at the end of it!
quote:
...it would be a bit odd to do Lent over Easter itself, in the summer, during harvest time
What do those not living in the northern hemisphere have to say about that line of argument?
 
Posted by pydseybare (# 16184) on :
 
There is quite an interesting line of argument that says the temptations in the desert reflect temptations Jesus Christ experienced in the rest of his life, in particular on 'palm' Sunday. We might then ask questions as to whether the 40 days in the desert has any special significance to the readers (presumably reflective of the 40 years of wandering by Moses&co).

Fasting is clearly a useful thing and is present in many religious traditions. If one is struggling with any significant decision, fasting appears to be a good way to concentrate the mind.

And I don't really have a problem with people deciding to do it in Lent if they want to. Given the significance of Easter, it would be a bit strange to do it at any other time of year (if you think it is something that you should be doing at least once a year anyway). There isn't a whole lot difference here between Lent and Ramadan in that respect.

I suppose my problem with Lent is that people do not seem to follow through with the things they say they're doing. Not many people actually fast. Of those that do, few are actually going without food for 40 days and 40 nights - as the example from the NT appears to suggest for Jesus Christ.

It seems to be imitation in name only, claiming to be doing something without actually doing it.
 
Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
Not many people actually fast. Of those that do, few are actually going without food for 40 days and 40 nights - as the example from the NT appears to suggest for Jesus Christ.

It seems to be imitation in name only, claiming to be doing something without actually doing it.
It depends on how define fasting. It is going with no food and drink? No food but drink allowed? No food and only water allowed? Is this all the time or just during daylight hours (an influence from Islam)?

Also, I discovered last year that lent isn't actually 40 days as is often cited. I had planned something and did one a day each day and realised that I had run out before Easter. An anglo-catholic friend then told me "Sundays don't count".

So if lent starts on the 5th of March and ends on the 20th of April, then it actually lasts 46 days.
 
Posted by pydseybare (# 16184) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
It depends on how define fasting. It is going with no food and drink? No food but drink allowed? No food and only water allowed? Is this all the time or just during daylight hours (an influence from Islam)?
That's true, although you'd think it would be less of a discussion if one was claiming to be following the example of Jesus Christ in the desert.

quote:
Also, I discovered last year that lent isn't actually 40 days as is often cited. I had planned something and did one a day each day and realised that I had run out before Easter. An anglo-catholic friend then told me "Sundays don't count".

So if lent starts on the 5th of March and ends on the 20th of April, then it actually lasts 46 days.
That's true. I think fasting for that long in the desert is actually impossible, but anyway.
 
Posted by seekingsister (# 17707) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
But none of the above need to happen at a set time of year, or when everyone else is doing them.
Having gone from a tradition that eschewed Lent entirely to the Anglican Communion, I would suggest that there is a benefit to fasting at the same time as millions of other Christians around the world, to share in the church universal. In my family's church you get people randomly fasting at different times and for different issues, there's never a sense of even congregation-wide action let alone beyond it.

I did Lent for the first time last year and think it is very worthwhile for Christians to try, regardless of their denomination. It definitely contributed to my spiritual growth.
 
Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
I once led my former church in 7 24-hour fasts over a period of 7 months, so I can see the benefits [Big Grin]

Following a set liturgical calendar has its own, separate pros and cons though, much like the lectionary.

[ 26. February 2014, 08:56: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
 
Posted by andras (# 2065) on :
 
Lent for me is a reminder that Christianity is about serious stuff - as is the penitential time of Advent as well. With every advert reminding me that I should get everything I want now, it's good to be told that Easter - or Christmas - is coming, but that we mustn't open the gift early!

Even the lack of Alleluias in church during Lent is a useful reminder that good things are coming and that we need to wait for them patiently.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I was told a long time ago that "40 days" isn’t supposed to be taken literally; it’s a figurative expression, the equivalent of "umpteen".

"Fasting" seems to be a bit of an elastic concept as it basically means a restricted diet rather than complete abstinence. Some people miss out one meal, others might go without eating for a day, some might cut out anything non-vegetarian and eat in moderation. Obviously if you’re diabetic or have a health condition you’re discouraged from deviating from your usual habit. It’s nothing like the feat of endurance that is Ramadan, where you don’t eat anything from dawn until dusk, daily until Ramadan is over. (Though again people with medical conditions are dispensed from this.)
 
Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :
 
Apologies first of all for starting the Gordo tangent... [Big Grin]

Our priest is exhorting us to a 'holy Lent' and I do like to do something specific. However this year the Lent group is meeting on a Thursday evening, which clashes with our music rehearsals for Holy Week, so that's no good. Rather than give something up I want to put more time into prayer (I sure need to!) so wonder about something online, say, the Northumbria Community daily offices. I've used them before, it's just a matter of regularity.
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I sat in the congregation, rather than in the choir, for Lent last year - and learnt a lot. You certainly get a different perspective on worship that way.

I couldn't do that every year though - the Lenten music is so lovely and I want to sing it!
 
Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
fasting appears to be a good way to concentrate the mind.
Oh really? Have you ever tried it? I find by the middle of the afternoon there is no point doing anything that requires concentration. It is simply not possible. Even riding home after work becomes hazardous.
 
Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :
 
I have tried to give something up for Lent many times, and always fail.

I don't set myself up for failure any more.
 
Posted by pydseybare (# 16184) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Oh really? Have you ever tried it? I find by the middle of the afternoon there is no point doing anything that requires concentration. It is simply not possible. Even riding home after work becomes hazardous.
Oh yes, in a previous religious incarnation I used to fast all day quite often. I also used to pray all night with my friends.

I have never fasted continuously (I mean days without food, one after the other) for very long, although I have missed meals and only eaten at the end of the day for at least one entire Lent.

I probably wouldn't do that now.
 
Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
Its a pity that Lent has become associated with giving up things. Especially things you enjoy. On that basis I am giving up work for Lent.

But what if Lent involves us on taking on an "extra"? For my shacks that means doing a Bible study on the Parables. For others it might mean helping out on some community project.

You could say that these things can be done any time any place. But a concentrated focus on this time and this place is a great help on actually getting something done.
 
Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
Since I have to take daily medication with food, I am medically exempt from fasting but try to do what a Muslim in my situation would do for Ramadan, and focus on giving generously. Taking up a good cause is also a good thing.

It is much more powerful and significant to fast for Lent as a community, whether the worldwide Church or your local church. Fasting randomly by yourself throughout the year seems pointless.

I do find that denominations that don't observe Lent (or Advent) miss out tremendously, and offer a less well-rounded picture of life. Part of life is about waiting and holding back, and the church calender should reflect this.
 
Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Apparently we're going to be doing something based on Les Miserables. Yawn - the Gospel According to Victor Hugo anyone?
Agh, I'll plead guilty. Does it help that I'm using it with children (gradeschoolers)?

I've structured our Lenten lessons for children around Col. 1:13-- Jesus rescuing us from the Kingdom of darkness and bringing us into the Kingdom of Light. They'll be reading biblical narratives from passion week that show that transfer, as well as hearing from adults in the congregation explaining how God has done that in their own lives (brought them from darkness into light).

I'm planning on using just the pivotal silver candlesticks scene with them (they don't know it's overdone) to help reinforce the theme, as well as show them a metaphor for the atonement. It helps that the key scene is framed by seeing Jean Valjean first in darkness and later in bright light.
 
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :
 
I lost my cherry to Gordon Cheng.
 
Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :
 
[Big Grin] [Biased]
 
Posted by daronmedway (# 3012) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
Is Gordo coming back? [Eek!]
I think that would be good. I miss him. I was never 'sound' enough to warrant his attention, but nevertheless his presence on the ship was grist to the mill and, IMO, his planking was bit of a put up job.
 
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Is there anyone here who doesn't already know that discussions of Admin actions belongs in the Styx, and not here? No? Good!

Gwai,
Purgatory Host
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
OK, to get back on track, our church is watching another film this year - in instalments over the 6 weeks. One year we watched 'Chocolat', this year it's to be a film about the Pilgrimage to Compostela. We'll be discussing the messages found in the film after watching the excerpts.
 
Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
I just love lenten memes. They say so much.
Or do they go too far?
 
Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Its a pity that Lent has become associated with giving up things. Especially things you enjoy.
Quite.

How on earth does asceticism bring one closer to God?

It just seems a denial of the good things God has given us.

If you want to give up something for lent, don't give up chocolate, give up gossip or envy or anger and all those wonderful things that chew up communities and families.
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
If you want to give up something for lent, don't give up chocolate, give up gossip or envy or anger and all those wonderful things that chew up communities and families.
Do you get a day off observing those things on Sundays as well? [Biased]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
How on earth does asceticism bring one closer to God?

It just seems a denial of the good things God has given us.
Because, to put it bluntly, it cuts out the crap. You pare life down to its essentials for a bit, throw away some clutter, and see what's left. This makes more space to look around, assess, listen, and let some light in.

When Lent is over you might resume some of these things and you might find that you no longer really want them, or you might return to them with a renewed appreciation and gratitude for them which you didn't have before because you were too busy taking them for granted.
 
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
I visited our nearest Orthodox church last Sunday and it was Meat Sunday or Cheese Fare Sunday for them - the last time they eat meat (or dairy produce in some instances) before what they call Great Lent. Advent is a kind of lesser Lent in their tradition - as indeed it used to be for the Anglicans and RCs at one time - and may well still be for some.

It's also the Sunday where they consider the Last Judgement in the Orthodox Calendar so the Gospel reading is the 'Lord, when did we see you sick or in prison ...' one.

In his sermon the priest said that fasting is the least important part. The most important part is the alms-giving, loving our neighbour part (not that this should be restricted to one season, of course) and the next most important aspect is prayer - which none of us are very good at.

The whole thing is about 'redeeming the time' of course and hence the development of the Church Calendar.

I've gone from being someone who used to dismiss and despise such things to someone who finds them useful - although I haven't got it all sussed and I fall short of the disciplines.

I find they provide a useful framework.

Our Anglican parish church doesn't really do Lent at all ... in fact, it doesn't really do any of the Festivals apart from Christmas and Easter. If I do the prayers on Ascension Day, say, or one of the major feasts, I'm often the only one who will allude to the particular date.

Ok, don't get me wrong, I don't take a superstitious approach to such things. I don't believe there is any particular karma or mojo attached to them - but they are convenient and they can be powerful reminders.

To be honest, I wouldn't want to go back to a kind of DIY spirituality where these things weren't practised and didn't apply ... not because I think it's wicked and evil not to - but in the same way that I believe that form is important in poetry (even if you write free verse as I tend to) or traditional musical notation is important in the study of music or life-drawing with nude models is important in the development of drawing skills, or dissection of cadavers and so on is important in anatomical skills - and works on a different level to using dummies or computer simulation.

So, work patterns permitting, I may well join the RCs again this Lent for their lectio-divina sessions.
 
Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
If you want to give up something for lent, don't give up chocolate, give up gossip or envy or anger and all those wonderful things that chew up communities and families.
All of that goes without saying. It's not like people don't know gossip and envy and anger are bad and they don't hear about it the rest of the year. It's already understood and besides, in my experience, most lenten writings, homilies and mission touch on those subjects anyways.

The asceticism and the discipline is to tame the self and open yourself to God's grace. "He who is faithful in a very little is faithful also in much; and he who is dishonest in a very little is dishonest also in much", Luke 16:10. If you can't resist a piece of chocolate whose to say you'll be good at holding back your tongue?
 
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on :
 
Number me as another one who thought of Gordissimo when I saw the title of this thread. Strange as he never really noticed me.....

Anyway, my understanding is that Lenten practice traditionally involves giving something up and taking something on. Often the taking something on has been to read a challenging book - which goes back to the Rule of Benedict in the Fifth Century.
 
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:

The asceticism and the discipline is to tame the self and open yourself to God's grace. "He who is faithful in a very little is faithful also in much; and he who is dishonest in a very little is dishonest also in much", Luke 16:10. If you can't resist a piece of chocolate whose to say you'll be good at holding back your tongue?
Thank you for that, Pancho. I've always felt benefit form my small sacrifices at Lent but, these days, people seem to scorn my battle with sugar addiction and suggest I should work on my personality instead. As you suggest, that's an ongoing struggle that needs more than forty days.
 
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Of course all these things don't 'work' in isolation and are meant to form part of a pattern and rule of life.

Perhaps they only make real sense in that sort of context?

What does make me chuckle, though, is how some people who make a big deal about not observing these things often invent their own equivalents and special ways of doing things ...

Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, of course, but I've known people who dismiss this sort of thing as 'religious' in the perjorative sense who are just as, if not more, 'religious' in ways they don't recognise as such ...
 


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