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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Fucking homophobic bigots
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
World Vision.
Those FUCKING BIGOTS who have decided to withdraw their support to World Vision because they were prepared to employ legally married same sex couples?
Burn in fucking hell you moralistic, selfish, people haters. Stop calling yourself Christians if you are so desperately intent on stuffing your own fucking faces, and not putting yourself out to do what Jesus asked us to.
And burn in fucking hell. I no longer recognise your claim to be part of the same faith I adhere to. Call yourself GAYHATERS not Christians.
A slightly more reasoned rant on my blog post.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
The first two entries in Rachel Held Evan's blog will bring you up to date.
I'm with you and RHE on this. As an evangelical, I'm grieving for the tribe.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
By their fruits....
This is the true face of "traditional family values" evangelicalism.
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
Posts: 979 | Registered: Aug 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
By their fruits....
This is the true face of "traditional family values" evangelicalism.
It's the true face of one side (the loudest side) of evangelicalism. There have been other voices, especially in the last few days.
btw, I found it interesting-- and heartening-- to learn that World Vision Canada (a separate but sister organization) has no such problems with an inclusive hiring policy.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
I'm rather pissed off with World Vision, as well.
1) "Hi, we've decided that this is the right thing to do."
2) "...the right thing is too hard."
You can't take a moral stand and then jump straight into take-backsies the moment it gets tough.
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St Deird:
You can't take a moral stand and then jump straight into take-backsies the moment it gets tough.
Well said. Cowards.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St Deird:
I'm rather pissed off with World Vision, as well.
1) "Hi, we've decided that this is the right thing to do."
2) "...the right thing is too hard."
You can't take a moral stand and then jump straight into take-backsies the moment it gets tough.
I suppose the way I look at it is that WV are seeking to provide money for the children. When this was being severely impacted, they made a choice that would enable them to provide what they were trying to do in the first place.
Yes, it is sad that they did this. I suspect that there are a number of people in WV who are angry and feel compromised themselves. I doubt very much that this was an easy reversal.
Yes I am disappointed with them. But I can understand why their core purpose was being damaged. They are not there to support gay people specifically. They are there to help children in the developing world.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It does provide an interesting glimpse into the evangelical world; I mean, the first decision shows that anti-gay feeling is not unanimous. There are various reports that young people in the US don't like the bigotry of some churches. But I suppose the old guard or the right wing, came back hot and heavy, and bigotry has been reclaimed. Something farcical about it as well. Christianity with its pants round its ankles.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Nothing short of blackmail.
Blackmail can work both ways. Anyone willing to launch a campaign for people to support WV if they re-instate their non-discriminatory hiring policy, or for current supporters to pull out if they don't.
I know, that would make us as bad as the bigotted disgraces to the evangelical tradition who removed their support in the first place.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
One thing I noticed in the World Vision Canada statement is this:
quote:
We comply with provincial laws on this matter which prohibit discrimination in employment.
Now, I'm not saying this is the ONLY reason that World Vision Canada has their policy. Not a bit of it. But I can't help noticing the silently implied flipside: that much of the United States doesn't have such laws.
Several LGBT rights organisations in the USA have drawn my attention to the fact that you can readily be sacked for being gay. In a lot of the western world that's been prohibited for decades.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
orfeo
Is that really correct, that you can be sacked for being gay in some states? Gordon Bennett. What century are they living in?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Basically, in some states you could be sacked for almost any reason. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
orfeo
Is that really correct, that you can be sacked for being gay in some states? Gordon Bennett. What century are they living in?
It might not even be 'some', it might be 'most'. The Human Rights Campaign has a map available on this page that says only 21 states out of 50 have laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
Quite a few more have rules that protect public employees, but leave private sector companies free to discriminate.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Basically, in some states you could be sacked for almost any reason.
I believe it's called a "flexible labor market", "small government", or "light-touch regulation". Someone should write a phrase book for right-of-center euphemisms.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Petrified
Ship’s ballast
# 10667
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Posted
As a long term WV sponsor I find their about face disappointing, but I understand the problem with holding to principles when it's actually someone else who suffers as a result, particularly when they are children.
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At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock.
SoF a "prick against Bigotterie"
Posts: 540 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
I've never heard of World Vision.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by St Deird:
I'm rather pissed off with World Vision, as well.
1) "Hi, we've decided that this is the right thing to do."
2) "...the right thing is too hard."
You can't take a moral stand and then jump straight into take-backsies the moment it gets tough.
I suppose the way I look at it is that WV are seeking to provide money for the children. When this was being severely impacted, they made a choice that would enable them to provide what they were trying to do in the first place.
Yes, it is sad that they did this. I suspect that there are a number of people in WV who are angry and feel compromised themselves. I doubt very much that this was an easy reversal.
Yes I am disappointed with them. But I can understand why their core purpose was being damaged. They are not there to support gay people specifically. They are there to help children in the developing world.
All of this. I was a bit surprised that the backlash wasn't anticipated-- certainly when the announcement came out on Monday my first thought was "courageous" because I knew there'd be a funding loss. I'd assumed they'd already factored that in-- had reason to believe there would be more liberal Christians who'd step up to fill the void (as some were already beginning to do when the abrupt turn around happened), or one large donor who'd agreed to make up the slack. It was odd.
The abrupt flip I fear only makes things far worse. I doubt they'll get too many of the hard-core fundies back. Anyone who's willing to dump a long-standing commitment to a child in need because the employee who processes their check up in Washington state might have a same-sex spouse back home doesn't sound to me like someone reasonable enough to come back in now. And the more liberal social-justice minded donors who were beginning to come forward aren't likely to feel such a need now.
I like the work World Vision does-- especially now that research is supporting their community-based sponsorship model. But this has been just heartbreaking. We can do better. We need to.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Basically, in some states you could be sacked for almost any reason.
I believe it's called a "flexible labor market", "small government", or "light-touch regulation". Someone should write a phrase book for right-of-center euphemisms.
Even in states with protections for gender orientation, religious institutions like WV doing religious work would be exempted. Heck, now we even have places like Hobby Lobby trying to claim they are a "religious organization"-- I've never shopped there, but apparently they must sell Magic Jesus Miracle Yarn and Spiritual Succor Savior Scrapbooks-- and so should also be allowed to discriminate. All in Jesus' name, of course. Cuz it's all about the children.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Basically, in some states you could be sacked for almost any reason.
I believe it's called a "flexible labor market", "small government", or "light-touch regulation". Someone should write a phrase book for right-of-center euphemisms.
Right-wingers have their own style of political correctness. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Perhaps these bastards would like to explain to The Almighty why they loved their own version of morality more than they loved the children.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
I'm really not angry at WV for caving. They were like someone whose child had been kidnapped for ransom by a brutal maniac. They paid the ransom to get the kid back.
My anger is 100% directed at the brutal maniac kidnapper = the "kakangelicals" who pulled their financial support.
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
Posts: 979 | Registered: Aug 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
I'd agree that World Vision could have taken a stronger stand over this, but the people who have withdrawn their support because of this are a disgrace.
Nothing short of blackmail.
Because it was not blackmail wich caused them to reverse position in the first?
From Fox News:
quote:
The agency had announced Monday that its board had prayed for years about whether to hire Christians in same-sex marriages as churches took different stands on recognizing gay relationships. World Vision staff come from dozens of denominations with varied views on the issue. The board had said World Vision would still require celibacy outside of marriage and would require employees to affirm that they follow Christ, but would change policy in the U.S. as a way to avoid the divisive debates that have torn apart churches.
But the change drew widespread condemnation, with many donors posting on the agency's Facebook page that they would no longer fund the sponsor-a-child programs that are central to World Vision's fundraising and education.
It was the "Christian" evangelicals who first engaged blackmail in this. Wankers.
Aim your derision properly.
BTW: Most news outlets are only showing the second half of the story. I had to go to FOX to find the first. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif) If we were not already here, I would be tempted to call you to hell for that.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
You might want to work on your reading comprehension first, dear.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I've never heard of World Vision.
I've always been suspicious that it spends more money on bibles and evangelism than on feeding the hungry with literal food.
I've been asked to sponsor children raising money for it and i have given them money so as to support the children who are looking for such sponsorship but i always do so with a disturbed conscience.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
You might want to work on your reading comprehension first, dear.
On which part?
TPFF's statement could be read at being aimed towards the evangelicals or the LGBT supporters. In that case, I could have been more polite.
My Faux News excerpt? I did not pull the entire article here, but that bit is speaking of the evangelical first shot.
[ 27. March 2014, 15:29: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Let me be clear, though.
I condemn the evangelicals behind the initial threat, World Vision for caving and those who withdrew commitments without reinvesting them in a similar aid group.
In that order.
The reason for the Original Wanksters having primacy should be obvious.
World Vision follows close behind for what they do to charitable giving. While it is anecdotal, my experience is that disillusionment in charitable organisations inhibit giving. Rather than find a suitable agency, many just stop.
Those who withdrew support and did not re-invest the commitment draw third because, whilst I understand the frustration, it is not the fault of those in need,
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I dunno, I know several people who opted to sponsor a child in support of WV's inclusive stance, and every single one of them openly stated they would keep their pledges despite what WV decided. WV might have to reconsider their policies in light of the fact that a good deal of their sponsor load is now gays and liberals.
I think this is turning into a real "by their fruits you will know them" moment.
[ 27. March 2014, 18:42: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Let me be clear, though.
I condemn the evangelicals behind the initial threat, World Vision for caving and those who withdrew commitments without reinvesting them in a similar aid group.
In that order.
The reason for the Original Wanksters having primacy should be obvious.
World Vision follows close behind for what they do to charitable giving. While it is anecdotal, my experience is that disillusionment in charitable organisations inhibit giving. Rather than find a suitable agency, many just stop.
Those who withdrew support and did not re-invest the commitment draw third because, whilst I understand the frustration, it is not the fault of those in need,
To their credit - loosely speaking - AGC told their members to honour their existing commitments so vulnerable children and families didn't suffer because of the policy - just not take on any new ones. As for some of the other Christian leaders ...
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif) x infinity and lots of swears. Some of them won't be seeing a penny of my money or a shoebox, I'll donate to organisations where good works don't come with an unwanted dressing of bigotry in the future. FTS.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
As there's a non anti-gay sister organisation in Canada could American sponsors who don't like the U-turn maybe ask to have their sponsorship transferred to and dealt with by the Canadian organisation, so there's no interruption in continuity in funding the child but the point gets made? Sort of a transfer deal?
[ 27. March 2014, 22:16: Message edited by: Louise ]
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I dunno, I know several people who opted to sponsor a child in support of WV's inclusive stance, and every single one of them openly stated they would keep their pledges despite what WV decided. WV might have to reconsider their policies in light of the fact that a good deal of their sponsor load is now gays and liberals.
I think this is turning into a real "by their fruits you will know them" moment.
One of those is a close friend and shipmate. I fervently wish WV had taken more time with their decision, had waited to see who would step up to the plate to take the place of those who cruelly deserted ship. For a moment there it was looking like a watershed moment, one that might turn the tide in a lot of ways.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Totally agreed!
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
You might want to work on your reading comprehension first, dear.
On which part?
TPFF's statement could be read at being aimed towards the evangelicals or the LGBT supporters. In that case, I could have been more polite.
This. Because if we're talking about people who have withdrawn support, the news is about evangelicals withdrawing support, not about LGBT people withdrawing support after the backflip.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
For what is worth:
Both World Vision UK and World Vision Canada state that what their US counterpart does, does not affect their hiring practices.
World Vision UK
World Vision Canada
[ 28. March 2014, 02:25: Message edited by: Anglican_Brat ]
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
You might want to work on your reading comprehension first, dear.
On which part?
TPFF's statement could be read at being aimed towards the evangelicals or the LGBT supporters. In that case, I could have been more polite.
This. Because if we're talking about people who have withdrawn support, the news is about evangelicals withdrawing support, not about LGBT people withdrawing support after the backflip.
I think you are correct. Re-reading the thread itself, without clicking any links, it appears I misread.
Apologies to The Phantom Flan Flinger.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
One interesting factor that the UK statement points out is that the children supported are supported irrespective of sexuality (and other things).
Meaning that some of those who have withdrawn their support could well have been supporting a homosexual child for many years.
I like to think that they have.
Hey bigots - some of your money has ALREADY supported homosexuals. Suck that and see what comes out.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
For what is worth:
Both World Vision UK and World Vision Canada state that what their US counterpart does, does not affect their hiring practices.
World Vision UK
World Vision Canada
A house divided against itself cannot stand. Regardless of the pious disclaimers of those two national organisations, they will be tarred with the same brush as the US organisation. How can they all work in the international field without running into, and disagreeing with, the USA organisation? It certainly looks like a fast CYA* response.
*CYA - cover your ass.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Well, is that surprising? Every time that some radical nutty Muslim does something abhorrent, we seem to expect every Muslim organisation in the Western world to apologise for it.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I've never heard of World Vision.
I've always been suspicious that it spends more money on bibles and evangelism than on feeding the hungry with literal food.
I've been asked to sponsor children raising money for it and i have given them money so as to support the children who are looking for such sponsorship but i always do so with a disturbed conscience.
Leo,
Do you have any evidence for your suspicion? I generally regard WV as one of the good guys; in several years as a supporter I have never seen any evidence that they spend money on "bibles and evangelism" rather than helping communities to flourish.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I've never heard of World Vision.
I've always been suspicious that it spends more money on bibles and evangelism than on feeding the hungry with literal food.
I've been asked to sponsor children raising money for it and i have given them money so as to support the children who are looking for such sponsorship but i always do so with a disturbed conscience.
Leo,
Do you have any evidence for your suspicion? I generally regard WV as one of the good guys; in several years as a supporter I have never seen any evidence that they spend money on "bibles and evangelism" rather than helping communities to flourish.
Indeed, the charge in the evangelical circles I run in has usually been the reverse, because, you know, feeding hungry people is great but we're really in it for the decisions for Christ. Which may be why this heartbreaking debacle was inevitable sooner or later.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
Leo,
Do you have any evidence for your suspicion? I generally regard WV as one of the good guys; in several years as a supporter I have never seen any evidence that they spend money on "bibles and evangelism" rather than helping communities to flourish.
I would (anecdotally) agree with JoannaP. My wife and I sponsored two children through the UK version of World Vision for a number of years. (We only stopped because we moved continent.) Every few months we'd get letters from the children telling us what they'd been doing at school, how tall they were getting, what new toy they'd just got from the charity. I don't remember evangelism being mentioned once. And these two kids were in completely different places, too.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I've never heard of World Vision.
I've always been suspicious that it spends more money on bibles and evangelism than on feeding the hungry with literal food.
I've been asked to sponsor children raising money for it and i have given them money so as to support the children who are looking for such sponsorship but i always do so with a disturbed conscience.
Leo,
Do you have any evidence for your suspicion? I generally regard WV as one of the good guys; in several years as a supporter I have never seen any evidence that they spend money on "bibles and evangelism" rather than helping communities to flourish.
No - that is why it is merely a 'suspicion', though based on the assumption that evangelicals are often more concerned about people's 'eternal destiny'.
Accusations have been made about their work in India.
The section on 'spirituality' says that evangelism is a key part of their work - see before note 28.
This blogger claims that it gives bibles as part of its 'aid'. They also hold evangelistic summer camps.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Well, the Bangladeshi kid we sponsor through WV was already Christian before our money ever got near her. Does that mean they're allowed to give her school a Bible or two for the pupils to read, or not?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
News Flash! Extra, extra, read all about it!
Christian organization motivated by Christianity, believes and does Christian things!
(Continued on A22)
Sometimes they could do a better job of it.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
News Flash! Extra, extra, read all about it!
Christian organization motivated by Christianity, believes and does Christian things!
(Continued on A22)
Sometimes they could do a better job of it.
If this really were what Christianity is, I'd be looking for a different religion.
Tell us, Ariston, which things do you see as most Christian in all of this! The anti-gay policy? The cowardly caving crumble that abandoned a deeply prayerful decision after two days of high-pressure tactics? The high-pressure tactics that held poor children hostage to a culture war battle? The blunt declarations from multiple voices that "there is no such thing as a gay Christian"?
"Jesus wept."
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
Posts: 979 | Registered: Aug 2005
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
My God, is this the thread for reading posts out of context? It must be fun an everything to get the juices flowing, but I'm pretty sure that Ariston was responding to Leo's post about WV doing the occasional Christian meeting and giving out bibles.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
My God, is this the thread for reading posts out of context? It must be fun an everything to get the juices flowing, but I'm pretty sure that Ariston was responding to Leo's post about WV doing the occasional Christian meeting and giving out bibles.
Damn! You're right! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) I feel stupid ... and that happens so rarely! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Apologies to Ariston.
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
Posts: 979 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
I'm pretty sure that Ariston was responding to Leo's post about WV doing the occasional Christian meeting and giving out bibles.
Exactly. Now, I'm not calling homophobia "Christian"—that's the "could do a better job at it" part—but the idea that a Christian organization shouldn't engage in evangelism as well as direct material aid, that they just have to be spending more money on Bibles than food, because they just have to (and some anti-Christian atheist blogger said we should be shocked, shocked that a religious organization acts like they're religious, so of course they are!) is just ridiculous.
So while I think WV was right cowardly, that they were neither hot nor cold, that they wanted to do the right thing so long as it didn't have any material consequences, that doesn't mean I think they're un-Christian, just that, like many of us, the people who are in charge can succumb to fear. They tried to make a stand, they faced the backlash, and, perhaps motivated by fear for those they care for, perhaps by something less altruistic, they caved.
But to expect an ostensibly Christian organization—no matter how susceptible it is to fear of where its funding for continued good works is coming from—to not spread the Good News is patently silly.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
My God, is this the thread for reading posts out of context? It must be fun an everything to get the juices flowing, but I'm pretty sure that Ariston was responding to Leo's post about WV doing the occasional Christian meeting and giving out bibles.
Damn! You're right! I feel stupid ... and that happens so rarely!
Apologies to Ariston.
's all good. No apologies for misreading a sentence that, in retrospect, could be ambiguous, are needed.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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