Thread: Fuck tha Police- Ice Cube was Right Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=027132
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
Jonathan Flemming was released after more than 2 years, convicted because the police and prosecution withheld evidence.
When will this shit end?
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Jonathan Flemming was released after more than 2 years, convicted because the police and prosecution withheld evidence.
When will this shit end?
That's a typo. It was more than twenty-four years.
Moo
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
24 years? They owe that man his life! I'm sure they will sue the shit out of people, but real justice would be anyone proven to have withheld evidence seeing hard time.
And having made the acquaintance of a few cops, I am sure there are some out there that are just as angry about the matter as anyone else is. Stake my life on it-- there are good cops who despise this shit. But I will use this space to publicly challenge them to speak the fuck up, instead of assisting in the usual wagon- circle.
(Cynic voice) How much you want to bet in that town there is suddenly going to be a very highly publicized police funeral? Cops die every day, and they deserve the respect due to them for the tough job they do, but ISTM every time police agencies come under very close scrutiny, they put some poor dead guy up as a figurehead for why we should never say anything about a cop except "thank you."
// but then I live next door to a cemetery town with a police force that probably outnumbers the actual residents, so it may just be the thing to do around here, but I swear to God-- every single time.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Jonathan Flemming was released after more than 24 years, convicted because the police and prosecution withheld evidence.
Dear God. And not just the kind of evidence that casts doubt on a conviction, the kind of evidence that conclusively proves beyond all shadow of a doubt that he couldn't possibly have done it.
I'm with Kelly. That's the kind of thing that should be earning jail time for perverting the course of justice.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And having made the acquaintance of a few cops, I am sure there are some out there that are just as angry about the matter as anyone else is.
The black ones? Oh sorry, not fair, I am sure the Mexican cops might feel some sympathy.
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Stake my life on it-- there are good cops who despise this shit. But I will use this space to publicly challenge them to speak the fuck up, instead of assisting in the usual wagon- circle.
I do not think all police are fucked up. But I think it is more than you think.
And those who do not speak up are complicit. As are the prosecution.
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
:
Another wrongly convicted for breathing while black? Why am I not surprised?
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
But I think it is more than you think.
What is it you have decided I think, beyond what I wrote?
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
But I think it is more than you think.
What is it you have decided I think, beyond what I wrote?
You know, you are correct. My brain slipped in something you had not actually said, remnants from old arguments, old disillusionment.
This is a subject which causes me to see red and not think clearly.
Not. An. Excuse.
You have my apologies.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
And the first part of my reply was a bit out of line. I truly believe there are good cops of all colours. And bad of the same.
But I also assert that, in the Western world, law enforcement is weighted against the less fair complected.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Oh I totally agree. I just come from a tiny little unincorporated district populated by a shockingly equal amount of differently complected people-- on the force and off- and our guys/ gals rock. Heck, I went to school with half of them.
One town over the cops have a reputation as utter dicks. Across the Bay-- shit, when I am hanging out across the Bay, I can't even look the cops in the eye. IMO it is not so much that they are all racist, but it is this idea that admitting one cop is corrupt is somehow betraying the brotherhood.
And as you say, that makes them accomplices-- whatever their personal ethics might be.
o, back during the Occupy protests, the Detroit police came out in force to support peaceful protest and free speech. It was beautiful. More of that. Much more. Anyone shouting outside of the force is going to be perceived at "them"-- the brothers need to speak the hell up.
Posted by Mockingale (# 16599) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Jonathan Flemming was released after more than 2 years, convicted because the police and prosecution withheld evidence.
When will this shit end?
Round up every cop and prosecutor involved in that case and make him or her prove they had nothing to do with the "lost" receipt. Those who don't can work at hard labor for 24 years, with all profits going to support Mr. Flemming.
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
:
The Albuquerque police are the latest to come under criticism. (Warning: the video is likely to make you extremely angry, to put it mildly).
I used to be a fan of the Cops program on TV, but I can't watch it anymore without my blood boiling.
Police have become nothing more than bullies acting under cover of law. Citizens needing help summon them at their own peril.
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Police have become nothing more than bullies acting under cover of law. Citizens needing help summon them at their own peril.
Some have and some have not. The problem is that the citizens can't tell.
Moo
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mockingale:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Jonathan Flemming was released after more than 2 years, convicted because the police and prosecution withheld evidence.
When will this shit end?
Round up every cop and prosecutor involved in that case and make him or her prove they had nothing to do with the "lost" receipt. Those who don't can work at hard labor for 24 years, with all profits going to support Mr. Flemming.
Bravo.
Ms. Amanda, I lost interest in COPS when I watched one show set in Louisiana someplace-- a black man and woman approached a cop, the woman screaming that she'd been mugged and her purse had been taken. The cop basically full-on refused to help, and then turned to the camera and gave some bullshit pronouncement about it being a cover-up for domestic abuse.
Jesus, when things are so bad that a cop can do something like that right in front of a camera and feel no shame....
[ 11. April 2014, 20:07: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Police have become nothing more than bullies acting under cover of law. Citizens needing help summon them at their own peril.
Some have and some have not. The problem is that the citizens can't tell.
Moo
The problem isn't the few bad apples. It's the barrel the apples are in.
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I lost interest in COPS when I watched one show set in Louisiana someplace-- a black man and woman approached a cop, the woman screaming that she'd been mugged and her purse had been taken. The cop basically full-on refused to help.
I recall that show, or a similar one -- the cop refused to help the woman because she was (in his opinion) a prostitute. In fact, instead of helping, he told her to sit down and then pushed her into a broken armchair that had been discarded in a pile of trash by the side of the road. Prostitute or not, my heart went out for that poor woman No one deserves to be humiliated by a bully.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
SHIT! ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
No, different show-- in the one I saw, the couple just begged the guy to help, then finally stomped off in disgust. He made his little domestic dispute speech to the camera after they left. But how charming is it that it seems to be a a pattern!
[ 12. April 2014, 04:09: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on
:
My and my family's experience of the police is that they were far, far better than anyone else connected to a major crime. There's some major whacko weirdness with police in some places it seems, or the 'net is only about the bad news. These wrongful conviction cases, don't they have something to do with courts, lawyers and prosecutors?
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
My and my family's experience of the police is that they were far, far better than anyone else connected to a major crime. There's some major whacko weirdness with police in some places it seems, or the 'net is only about the bad news. These wrongful conviction cases, don't they have something to do with courts, lawyers and prosecutors?
i) News is bad news. Good news isn't news.
ii) Someone has to do the investigations, interview suspects and witnesses; gather, collate and line up the evidence. In the UK at any rate that is done by the police (and a few government departments). By definition, you don't get wrongful convictions with complete evidence, obtained legally.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The problem isn't the few bad apples. It's the barrel the apples are in.
Yes, as Kelly alluded, the structure of the organisation causes much of the problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
By definition, you don't get wrongful convictions with complete evidence, obtained legally.
That is another problem, yes, since evidence is rarely complete.
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on
:
I find it hard to believe that the case relied on (a) the word of a very spurious witness and (b) the evidence of the telephone receipt.
Surely if there were plane tickets, manifests, hotel registers etc. proving that Mr. Flemming had travelled to Florida the court could have seen the unlikelihood of his taking a break from his holiday, returning to New York to kill Mr. Rush and then going back?
That the receipt was hidden (presumably) in order to secure a quick conviction beggars belief.
Sadly, they can't give Mr. Flemming his 24 years back (how did it take so long?), but the compensation they do give him had better make him a bazillionaire.
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on
:
New York City does seem to have taken a new attitude toward wrongful convictions, all to the good: here
But until prosecutors are held personally liable (automatic lifetime disbarment on a single finding of willful misconduct, for a start), I don't expect much will change.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
New York City does seem to have taken a new attitude toward wrongful convictions, all to the good: here
But until prosecutors are held personally liable (automatic lifetime disbarment on a single finding of willful misconduct, for a start), I don't expect much will change.
When you do that you won't find a prosecutor at any price.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
New York City does seem to have taken a new attitude toward wrongful convictions, all to the good: here
But until prosecutors are held personally liable (automatic lifetime disbarment on a single finding of willful misconduct, for a start), I don't expect much will change.
When you do that you won't find a prosecutor at any price.
Really? All prosecutors wish to be permitted to cheat? To lie? To convict, not the guilty, but anyone simply to obtain a conviction?
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
New York City does seem to have taken a new attitude toward wrongful convictions, all to the good: here
But until prosecutors are held personally liable (automatic lifetime disbarment on a single finding of willful misconduct, for a start), I don't expect much will change.
When you do that you won't find a prosecutor at any price.
Really? All prosecutors wish to be permitted to cheat? To lie? To convict, not the guilty, but anyone simply to obtain a conviction?
I doubt anyone will want to bet their career on allegations of wilful misconduct, which might not be their own in any event. Besides, if prosecutors and cops are found to have cheated can't they be prosecuted under existing legislation?
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
There are ramifications for misconduct by police and prosecution in most courts, especially in the west.
It is more that they are not investigated or prosecuted with the necessary fervor and that the punishment id not commiserate with the crime.
© Ship of Fools 2016
UBB.classicTM
6.5.0