Thread: Orphan Black Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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New series starts in the UK on Wednesday evening BBC3. (I believe it started last weekend across the pond.)
There's a catch up on iplayer at the moment.
For those who haven't seen it's a mixture of sf conspiracy, crime drama, and black comedy drama. Sarah Manning, a small time con artist trying to reconnect with her daughter, meets a woman who looks just like her as the woman commits suicide.
It is obligatory to comment on the brilliance of Tatiana Maslany's performance and also the brilliance of the special effects team.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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I have just downloaded the entire series so far on iplayer, and set the rest of the episodes to record. So I hope it is worth it.
Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on
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I binge-watched the whole of Season 1 last weekend after having it on my DVR for months. It's very entertaining and well done but I think it definitely benefits from such a method of viewing. If you slow down too much you may start to ask awkward plausibility questions. (Which are always best avoided IMHO)
Tatiana Maslany is excellent but so is Jordan Gavaris.
There's some quite mature content both from a sex and violence point of view so if you're squeamish about either of those take that on board perhaps. There's a scene involving a baddie getting his comeuppance in the basement of a night club that still has me wincing.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
Tatiana Maslany is excellent but so is Jordan Gavaris.
Gavaris is definitely the best of the supporting cast; either that or Felix is the most fun supporting character. But there are dull scenes with Gavaris in (mostly Felix and Vic), and I can't think of any dull scenes with Maslany in.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
If you slow down too much you may start to ask awkward plausibility questions. (Which are always best avoided IMHO)
Believe me, some of the plausibility questions in the syfy I watch make Dr Who seem plausible.
Posted by mrs whibley (# 4798) on
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Really enjoyed the first series, and looking forward to the second - thanks for the heads-up!
Our enjoyment of the first couple of episodes was slightly diluted by trying to place Sarah Manning's accent ...
... until we realised it was supposed to be South London. In every other respect the acting was superb and the plot compelling. I also had to look away for a couple of torture-type scenes, but they are pretty well signposted.
Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
If you slow down too much you may start to ask awkward plausibility questions. (Which are always best avoided IMHO)
Believe me, some of the plausibility questions in the syfy I watch make Dr Who seem plausible.
I was more thinking of character and plot plausibility than tech issues. I'll happily treat any new tech in a SF series as effectively magic so long as it's at least trying to be consistent. I was more thinking of "would that character really do this after that just happened?"
quote:
Originally posted by mrs whibley:
Our enjoyment of the first couple of episodes was slightly diluted by trying to place Sarah Manning's accent ...
... until we realised it was supposed to be South London.
I'll admit was prompted to go back and watch this after hearing it discussed on an American podcast I listen to. One of the people on the podcast was gushing about Maslany's acting - fair enough - and how in particular her British accent was so spot on that she was shocked to discover she wasn't British. I listened to about 30 seconds of it and thought, "er no".
Gavaris on the other hand did fool me and was surprised to find out he wasn't English.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Well I'm half way through series 1. Brilliant stuff - how did I miss this?
The accent seems to be what the Americans think is a British accent. I have heard similar on other programs. And yet to the British, it sounds just weird - almost Aussie.
The acting ability - playing so many interacting characters - is stunning. That takes some real talent, playing identifiably similar people but distinctly.
I have just seen that she is Canadian. Why are all my favorite people Canadian?
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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That was good if mostly not moving the plot along much. I think the best bits were Alison doing comic business.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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I discovered this by chance last night and thought it was wonderful. OK, I wasn't quite sure what was going on all the time, but it was very stylish and compelling viewing. All the characters were great, even if I couldn't always work out the connections between them, and I was highly impressed by Tatiana Maslany's range. Bits were hilarious - I loved the suburban mom's musical, and the gay guy (however he fits in). Just one question at the moment, is Sarah meant to be Australian? If not, what nationality is she?
Actually, I've got lots of other questions, but I don't understand enough to articulate them yet, so I will be following this thread with interest.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Sarah is British. That is what comes when one of our colonial cousins tries to do a London accent.
I would suggest catching up with series 1 on Iplayer, if possible. It will make a lot more sense then.
Posted by kaytee (# 3482) on
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I loved the first series, just watching ep 1 of series 2 now.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
All the characters were great, even if I couldn't always work out the connections between them, and I was highly impressed by Tatiana Maslany's range. Bits were hilarious - I loved the suburban mom's musical, and the gay guy (however he fits in). Just one question at the moment, is Sarah meant to be Australian? If not, what nationality is she?.
SPOILERS for Season One.
Sarah is British (honest). Felix the gay guy, is her foster brother. Sarah and Felix' foster mother is Mrs S, whom you will not have seen, disappeared at the end of Season One, with Kira, Sarah's daughter. Mrs S may have a dark past connected to one or other conspiracy that we do not know about.
Sarah spent large parts of the previous series pretending to be Beth. Beth was Art's (the black policeman) partner and trainee before she killed herself in the first scene by stepping in front of a train.
Helena, the blond one who collapses in a hospital, is not just Sarah's clone but Sarah's twin sister. Sarah shot her at the end of the last series. It looked fatal. As Kira, Sarah's child, has survived being hit by a car, it seems Sarah and Helena at least have some sort of healing factor. Helena has been trying to kill all the clones she knows about because she was kidnapped and brought up by an abusive nutcase religious sect. Helena is Ukrainian.
Paul and Delphine were previously employed by Dr Leekie to secretly monitor Beth and Cosima. (You may choose to see this as a rape metaphor. I couldn't possibly comment. Dr Leekie is a slimy bastard.) Everyone then thought Alison's neighbour and best friend Aynsley was Alison's monitor, which was why Alison let her die in a freak waste disposal accident. In fact, we know Donnie, Alison's husband, is Alison's monitor. (Alison did previously suspect Donnie. Hot glue was involved.)
[ 01. May 2014, 21:58: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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Many thanks Dafyd. I'l catch up with Season 1 when I can, but what you've posted makes more sense than anything I could find while surfing.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Have watched the first episode of season 2, second is waiting for me on my box... Season 1 only finished airing a couple of months ago in Australia so there wasn't that much of a gap to deal with.
You know what sealed the deal for me with Tatiana Maslany? About halfway through season 1, I genuinely forgot that Sarah and Alison were the same actress. Seriously. They were such distinct characters that my brain no longer registered the artificiality of having them on screen together.
That carried through into the season 2 premiere. It wasn't until it had ended that I remembered that I wasn't watching two women who looked very much alike, I was watching the same woman twice. Three times almost, because I'm pretty much at that stage with Cosima now as well.
Also, Dylan Bruce is hot hot hot and I want him to get as much screen time as possible, please. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And yet to the British, it sounds just weird - almost Aussie.
To an Aussie it sounds thoroughly British!
Posted by M. (# 3291) on
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I watched the first few and got bored, but to the point, I thought she was meant to be South African!
M.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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More on the spoilers - trying not to give too much away.
There is something medically odd about Kira. When she was in hospital, they found something, but said nothing, so we have no idea what was found.
I suspect with Helena now being in hospital, we may find out something of what this is, and what the experiment is all about.
What blew my mind in the last series, and we have had a little on in this episode, is how Tatiana can manage to be one of her characters impersonating another of her characters. How do you keep your head straight doing that?
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
What blew my mind in the last series, and we have had a little on in this episode, is how Tatiana can manage to be one of her characters impersonating another of her characters. How do you keep your head straight doing that?
Absolutely! When you can actually tell the difference between the 'real' one and the impersonator, that's pretty darn brilliant.
I did read an interesting interview with Maslany where she talked about how each of the characters moved differently, based on a different dance/music style. I've just tried to find it online without success. I seem to remember Alison was something like flamenco or tango - stiff, held rigid.
EDIT: Ah, I think it was a version or extract of this interview. Flamenco for Alison, a rave party for Cosima, and the Prodigy and the Clash for Sarah.
[ 02. May 2014, 08:10: Message edited by: orfeo ]
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
You know what sealed the deal for me with Tatiana Maslany? About halfway through season 1, I genuinely forgot that Sarah and Alison were the same actress. Seriously. They were such distinct characters that my brain no longer registered the artificiality of having them on screen together.
Not to detract from Maslany's performance, but the hair and make-up and clothing departments deserve some credit as well.
I think I reached that point with Cosima before I did with Alison. Alison seems a bit mannered; more obviously a performance. That said, for me the most impressive bit is an Alison moment: it's when Alison is singing along to 'Bitch' in the car. Because that's a departure from Alison's usual manner, and yet it's clearly still Alison.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Alison seems a bit mannered; more obviously a performance.
Alison's life is a performance. Just look at the people around her. Acting like your life is perfect is a job requirement.
Posted by nickel (# 8363) on
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This is one of the rare shows all three of us -- dear husband, daughter, and I -- all enjoy enough to watch without internet surfing.
First time Dr Leaky came on, dear husband and I went w-w-w-wow! Daughter didn't know who he was. Great choice for that role.
Rachel, anyone?
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by nickel:
Rachel, anyone?
It will be interesting to see where they go with Rachel. At the moment she seems to be largely there so the writers can do more Maslany acting opposite Maslany. Which to be fair is a perfectly valid reason.
So: Season Two, Episode Two.
Mrs S's mysterious past. Connected to the Dyad Institute in some way? It occurs to me that we only have Mrs S's word for most of her (and Sarah and Felix' background). Although how Amelia fits into it if Mrs S's account isn't true isn't obvious.
Has somebody been watching too much No Country For Old Men?
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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As a newcomer I didn't think Episode 2 (of Season 2) was as gripping as Episode 1, and didn't look as good. Will keep on watching it though, as there's bugger all else on the box these days.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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I think it does feel a bit more padded. I think the main problem is that so far almost every episode has ended with Sarah pulled further into fighting the conspiracy than she was at the episode's start. This one ends with Sarah and Felix apparently escaping. That may well be in character but it's really not as interesting.
I think also scenes of Prolethians whom the clones haven't met yet interacting among themselves risk the sense of gradually discovering what is going on. I don't think we should know anything that at least one clone doesn't know (and we should have limited knowledge if that clone is Rachel or Helena).
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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Episode three was I think back on form. I do hope X's dad doesn't meet a sticky end.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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Surely he must? I was surprised he lasted to the end of the episode.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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This week was just so powerful. Proper action based drama.
On the powerful episodes, I sit in my chair gripped. Brilliant stuff.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Nobody else watching still?
Ouch. Helen does looking petrified very well.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Still watching, but I'm not sure whether we are in sync.
*checks Wikipedia*
I've seen 5 episodes of season 2 I believe.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Episode three was I think back on form. I do hope X's dad doesn't meet a sticky end.
...who is X?
Posted by seekingsister (# 17707) on
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Can someone convince me to give this show another chance? I watched three episodes of season 1 and just felt it was a bit cheap and over the top. And I normally love sci-fi, conspiracy thrillers, etc. I was pretty disappointed not to enjoy it. But I keep reading how much people love it and I'm wondering if I should try again.
With the exception of Tatiana Maslany all of the other actors and characters seemed extremely one dimensional.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Just seen 2:4 in the UK. And yes, it does get confusing when the show is a week and a half out of sync.
SeekingSister - yes keep going. I think the early part of series 1 was mainly to get people used to the idea of the clones and the same actress playing them all. There is a stunningly shocking piece at the end of 1:8/9. Overall, it is a really great show. IMO. Worth the effort.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Episode three was I think back on form. I do hope X's dad doesn't meet a sticky end.
...who is X?
The person whose Dad has a prominent part in season two episode three. And of whom it would be a spoiler for me to say any more.
We've just had episode four in the UK.
Personally I think X's Dad is taking things all rather calmly in episode four. I hope he's not planning to sell anybody out to anybody.
In the meantime, did anybody else notice that Helena got called an angel again? (I know it's wrong of me to enjoy seeing smug sadists getting their comeuppance at the hands of everyone's favourite deranged serial killer, but I did.)
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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I do actually think the show is a bit uneven. The latter part of season 1 was, to me, the best section so far.
I think as much as anything, the key thing for a show like this is the pace at which you discover new information. You need meaningful revelations - or at least, revelations that feel meaningful - often enough to keep you intrigued and following the thread of the plot.*
Often Orphan Black has done this really well, but occasionally it does feel as if we're marking time and watching a clone because we have to allocate some time to each one, not because they're doing anything all that interesting. Even Sarah can sometimes be found running around madly without actually achieving something.
As for other characters, we most definitely need more Mrs S. The show doesn't seem to entirely know what to do with Paul any more, but as I've indicated previously, I'm happy enough if I just get to watch him smoldering away on screen...
*Other sci-fi examples... first Matrix movie does a fine job, latter ones are boring. First season of Heroes was absolutely superb in terms of pacing. Then it didn't know what to do after that. X-Files at its finest did a good job with edging the 'conspiracy' along, at other times it felt like you'd got nowhere. And I gave up on Lost after one season because it seemed so intent on telling me anything, I couldn't be bothered waiting for the writers to take me into their confidence.
[ 22. May 2014, 11:25: Message edited by: orfeo ]
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Can someone convince me to give this show another chance? I watched three episodes of season 1 and just felt it was a bit cheap and over the top. And I normally love sci-fi, conspiracy thrillers, etc. I was pretty disappointed not to enjoy it. But I keep reading how much people love it and I'm wondering if I should try again.
With the exception of Tatiana Maslany all of the other actors and characters seemed extremely one dimensional.
It is a bit over the top. It's basically modern gothic. But the writers know what they're using the gothic elements for.
I think you should watch it until episode six of the first series. If you don't like episode six you probably won't like it at all. (I'm tempted to stretch that to episode seven, and the scene in the restaurant.)
I think what really makes the series into a work of art is the interactions between Sarah's conspiracy theory and Alison's story, which is a Kafkaesque black comedy about suburban paranoia. If you've only got to episode three you won't have seen much Alison in action. (Felix in particular I think is more rounded when he plays off Alison than off Sarah.) Nor will you have met the killer; all the scenes with the killer are great. (You don't meet the killer properly until episode seven.) And Sarah's daughter Kira is the kind of child character who would be really annoying if less well written but isn't.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Episode three was I think back on form. I do hope X's dad doesn't meet a sticky end.
...who is X?
The person whose Dad has a prominent part in season two episode three. And of whom it would be a spoiler for me to say any more.
We've just had episode four in the UK.
Personally I think X's Dad is taking things all rather calmly in episode four. I hope he's not planning to sell anybody out to anybody.
In the meantime, did anybody else notice that Helena got called an angel again? (I know it's wrong of me to enjoy seeing smug sadists getting their comeuppance at the hands of everyone's favourite deranged serial killer, but I did.)
Yeah okay, you meant who I thought you meant. Although really, there are reasons I'm not convinced your secrecy matters.
Developing Helena properly is one of the things I have hopes the show will do. At times they play up her 'deranged' aspect too much. The camerawork around her irritates me. It's not enough for to be played as having animal-like and twisted qualities, someone somewhere has decided that the camera has to hit the audience with a clue-stick by using odd angles or blurry focus in every shot.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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Not sure why we're being coy, but X's Dad seems very suspicious to me; my money is on him being a traitor in some way.
And it's still looking great, and is very cleverly filmed, but where is it all going? I'm now 4 episodes in, and don't have much of an idea of what is going on. Mystery is grand, but without some sense of progression a series feels like a lot of random running around. It would be a shame if OB degenerated into that, as I think it has the potential to be a lot more.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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I think I started being coy because I thought there might be people who hadn't caught up, and then I've just kept going with it out of habit.
The writers say they have a three season plot, and if they find they have extra seasons they'll invent something to slot in the middle. (I think that's wikipedia.)
I'm not too worried about where they're going: I think a lot of what I'm enjoying about the story is the set piece scenes. It's also a series that's exploring themes just as much as following a 'what happens next'. (The only thing wrong with saying Orphan Black is really about patriarchy trying to exert control over women's bodies, is that the word 'really' is redundant.)
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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One thing I am puzzled with, that may contain spoilers here. I might have missed something, or forgotten something.
In the farmhouse, Sarah used a knife and fork to great effect with Mrs S. I thought she then went back with the shotgun and shot her. Or so we were led to believe.
Or was it someone else she skewered? Have I remembered wrongly? Now she is around again. Or have I missed something?
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
In the farmhouse, Sarah used a knife and fork to great effect with Mrs S. I thought she then went back with the shotgun and shot her. Or so we were led to believe.
Mrs S used the knife and fork on Mrs S's old ally (who was selling them out to the religious nuts). Sarah was making a run for it at the time, and wasn't directly involved.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Thank you Dafyd. I had another scenario in my head for some reason.
It makes sense now.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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No Alison this week. A shame - Alison helps keep the thriller elements grounded.
Are Sarah's newly discovered feelings for Helena genuine? Or is that Sarah being a con artist?
I sort of hope they've got a proper character arc in mind for Helena and we don't see her being redeemed and then going bad alternately over the next couple of seasons (as with Sylar in Heroes).
Is Mrs S connected to the death of (one of) Rachel's parents?
Game: after having Art and Helena in the same room, which two characters do you want to see in the same scene? I'm hoping for Alison and Helena.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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It was a high-energy episode, which is cool. The lack of Alison keeps the energy up.
Helena is a great character. Actually far more nuanced than in series 1 - difficult and traumatised person, but delicate too.
Maybe the actress who plays Alison had a week off.
Oh.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Maybe the actress who plays Alison had a week off.
Well, I think that's funny.
[ 29. May 2014, 19:41: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
....makes more sense than anything I could find while surfing.
Were you actually surfing??? No, I didn't think so!
All that I find while surfing is waves and more waves and occasionally dolphins. I have been surfing for more than forty years and have been a member of the Surfrider Association. If people actually surfed with a computer larger than the camera/dvr in a helmet-mounted video unit, they would have to replace it daily!
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
....makes more sense than anything I could find while surfing.
Were you actually surfing??? No, I didn't think so!
Nor, I expect, did anyone else. 'Web surfing' is a widely-understood concept, you know.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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I missed last week's episode, so watched it tonight, before the new programme. It struck me that posh-girl (Rachel?) is the least satisfying of the lot. She's meant to be a high quality professional, but there's something rather down market about her. Aussie-girl and science-lass are OK (thought I find the later a bit dull), psycho-queen is great, but my favourite is drama-mom - who wasn't in it ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
. Anyway, let's see what tonight holds.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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She's English, not Aussie.
I think Rachael is someone trying to be the classy business girl, but has not really been brought up to it (or, possibly, the genetics for it).
I have seen some indications on twitter that the next few episodes are exceptional. I think it is trailing for this Saturdays, which will be 2 weeks time in the UK.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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And last night we had this season's Sarah pretending to be Alison episode. Which again has one laughing from behind one's fingers.
Did Dr Leekie deserve that?
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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The impersonations are so good. And it was interesting to see how little she had to do to make the transformation, because so often we see what we expect to see.
No Leekie didn't deserve that. I never worked out exactly what he was up to - he was trying to play too many sides, and finally lost.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Oh wow! A new clone.
Excellent.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Oh wow! A new clone.
The show offs. Not a lot of contributions to the plot, beyond some cryptic message to do with Paul disappearing.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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Just watched the season finale. What do we think?
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Brilliant. The Clone party was something awesome.
A new clone brand? Wow.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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It didn't feel quite as tight as the first season finale. I thought plot logic took priority over realism logic at one point. (Would Sarah really have been allowed to leave just because Rachel wasn't in a position to give orders?) There was a bit too much setting up things for next season rather than resolving stuff from this season. And the jury is still out on keeping Helena alive. (I mean, she thoroughly justifies every scene she's in, but I'm not quite sure about the overall storyline.)
But the clone party was brilliant.
Posted by kaytee (# 3482) on
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Good news, there will be a third season.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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Hooray.
So long as they don't kill off Cosima. (Or Alison.)
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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That is excellent news. However on the other side, Titiana has failed to be nominated for any Emmys.
Which is ridiculous, of course, because she should be given them all.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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I've just caught up with the season finale.
I put the show aside while the World Cup was on (I put aside a LOT of things while the World Cup was on), and it took me a while to get back to the 3 or 4 remaining episodes.
I dunno. I'm less and less enamored with the show's plotting. There have been episodes that have moved the girls around just for the heck of it, marking time, and the overall plot has mostly descended into melodrama. More importantly, the motivations of people are just all over the shop. Helena isn't so much nuanced as random, and she's not the only one.
You end up spending lots of time watching Sarah and Mrs S 'emoting' at each other, talking about how Kira is the key to everything, and choosing whichever course of action will enable people to clench their jaws more often. Paul just drops in and out randomly, and the corporate structure of Dyad is one of the great mysteries of television - exactly who the hell is in charge there? Sometimes people act as if Rachael is all powerful, and other times they just do whatever the hell they want behind her back.
And what, Helena's trucker cap was left in the corridor and everyone ignored it? Or did the soldier types come back and pick it up between scenes?
I find myself enjoying the time with Alison the most because she is the least involved in the conspiracy business. Her domestic dramas with her husband are far more believable, even when they involve dead bodies.
There's no doubt that Tatiana Maslany's characterisation continues to be excellent, but I'm beginning to feel like the show is relying far too much on that, and on some notion that menacing scientific conspiracies are inherently dramatic, and not putting enough effort into the writing.
[ 03. August 2014, 09:19: Message edited by: orfeo ]
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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I think you have something of a point. The revelations about Mrs S's exact role in the affair are being overly strung out and so on. Helena is spending too much time ping-ponging between the clones and the Proletheans.
Still, I don't think the messiness stops me from enjoying it. In that I think the details of the conspiracy are really there as a thread on which the important stuff is being strung. It's really an excuse to do stuff with illegal ovary removal, and Helena in a blood-soaked wedding dress, and the whole Alison subplot. (Although quite what happens to the Alison subplot without evil Donnie I don't know.)
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