Thread: Favourite classic fantasy novels Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on
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I'm teaching a course next year on which I want to set a classic twentieth-century fantasy novel. It can't be Lord of the Rings as it's too long. If it had a quest, or the supernatural or metamorphosis in it that would be ideal (it's to follow on from George MacDonald's Phantastes and some medieval romances). I just don't know very many fantasy novels -- but I'm sure there must be some knowledgeable fantasy fans here.
Which novels should I be looking at? And why?
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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If LOTR is too long, there's always The Hobbit.
What sort of level of readership are you aiming this at? Fantasy is a huge, broad genre that ranges from what are marketed as children's books like The Narnia Chronicles to the kind of contemporary post-apocalyptic fiction that Mark Chadbourn writes, which is dark, adult, utterly gripping stuff. Sometimes it overlaps with science fiction. The theme of quests is a perennial one across the entire spectrum, though.
If you want one of the well-known and well-loved classics you might try one of Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books. Wizard of Earthsea, first in the series, would be the best to start with. It's been around for years but is still interesting, original, sparse and not too long.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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Lord Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter is about midway between MacDonald and Tolkien. It certainly qualifies as a classic.
(Hope Mirrlees' Lud-in-the-Mist is contemporary with Dunsany, but is less influential.)
Poul Anderson's Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions are an interesting midway between the US Swords and Sorcery Tradition and Tolkienesque fantasy. Three Hearts and Three Lions is certainly questy if I remember correctly.
Moorcock's Stormbringer is I think a deconstruction of the US Sword and Sorcery tradition.
Ariel has already mentioned Le Guin's The Wizard of Earthsea.
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on
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Lud in the mist is a minor quest and it's fun to interpret it as a Lesbian novel.
Jack Vance "The Dying Earth" is well written and a nested series of short stories.
Ursula Le Guin's first book in the The Wizard of EarthSea series.
A recent Neil Gaiman "The Ocean at the end of the lane"
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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Alan Garner's "The Owl Service". It plays with the Mabinogion, so would follow from the medieval, and is deep and dark in places, and poetic. The modern characters, as have been their ancestors down the years are possessed by the three main protagonists in the story of Llew Llaw Gyffes, Blodeuwedd, and Gronw Pebyr, and are doomed to repeat the tragedy.
Also his "Elidor" which is for a younger audience, but uses the medieval story of Burd Ellen, and has a quest for four treasures of the realm of Elidor, which is linked to our world.
[ 18. June 2014, 20:23: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
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Palimpsest: quote:
Ursula Le Guin's first book in the The Wizard of EarthSea series.
A Wizard of Earthsea has my vote. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Boats and dragons and sorcery, O my!
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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Speaking of Neil Gaiman's books, Neverwhere is a particularly good one, set in London, where the hero finds himself in London Below as a reluctant hero on a quest he doesn't want to be on. I won't spoil it for you, but it really is a very good read and original with it.
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
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Do you want it to be serious?
If no then Terry Pretchett springs to mind. Carpe Jugulum is a good one, (not that there's a ad book in the Discworld series.
On a more serious note there's Moorcock. I can't say I enjoyed Stormbringer, the book is too disturbing for that, but it is good.
Posted by agingjb (# 16555) on
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William Morris, E.R.Eddison, David Lindsay, Mervyn Peake, Stephen Donaldson, David Eddings, (I could go on, but won't for the moment) will all enchant some and repel others.
Posted by Athrawes (# 9594) on
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Another one for "The "Owl "Service". It was the first thing to spring to mind when I read the OP. Also, if for a younger audience, "Eight Days of Luke" by Diana Wynne Jones might be good. It follows Norse mythology in a modern setting.
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
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Michael Ende's The Neverending Story. It is one of my all-time favorites, not just as a fantasy novel but as a love-letter to the joy of reading. However, if you use it, it absolutely HAS to be a proper edition with the red and green ink.
Posted by Ferdzy (# 8702) on
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Don't forget Dianna Wynne Jones! i am partial to The Time of the Ghost, Archer's Goon, and The Ogre Downstairs, but she wrote lots of great stuff. Witch Week is kind of the anti-Harry Potter, and it's terrific.
Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on
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Lots to beguile my summer reading! Oddly enough someone was talking to me today about Lud in the Mist. I definitely have to have a look at that one.
The course I'm teaching is called 'Romance' and it's a degree-level course for adults. So I think books aimed at younger children will be out. But I love A Wizard of Earthsea, so that's definitely one in the re-read pile; also The Owl Service which I remember being spooked by as a teenager. And that put me in mind of Fire and Hemlock, which I think is Diana Wynne Jones's best book. And I was also thinking about The Weirdstone of Brisingamen; and Prince Caspian which is full of romance-like elements, much more so than The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
I've never read any Terry Pratchett -- what do people think? I suspect Mervyn Peake tips too much into gothic, and I would be treading on a colleague's toes there.
What pleasures await!
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
I've never read any Terry Pratchett -- what do people think?
There are people in the world who do not like Terry Pratchett. There are many things I just do not understand.
(Although I think the earlier novels are among the weakest - I'd say the first really brilliant one is Wyrd Sisters, though some people would say Mort.)
Having said that, it doesn't sound from your course description that Pratchett would really be what you're looking for. I don't think the kind of fantasy you're talking about is the kind he's sending up, or using to send up other things.
Posted by jrw (# 18045) on
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The Prydain Chronicles by LLoyd Alexander.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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To add to all the excellent suggestions so far (especially Diana Wynne Jones) I would like to plug:
The Box of Delights by John Masefield
Somehow it is very English, and draws upon all sorts of folk material in compelling manner. DWJ and her family were fans, and there is an excellent TV version on DVD with the great Patrick Troughton as Cole Hawlings.
Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
The course I'm teaching is called 'Romance' and it's a degree-level course for adults.
Unless I've completely misunderstood you, I wonder if Wizard's First Rule might hit the spot. It might be a bit childish for what you want - my memory isn't clear as I've not read it in a while - but the relationship between the two main characters is interesting and powerful, I thought. Has anyone else read it?
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
The course I'm teaching is called 'Romance' and it's a degree-level course for adults.
Unless I've completely misunderstood you, I wonder if Wizard's First Rule might hit the spot. It might be a bit childish for what you want - my memory isn't clear as I've not read it in a while - but the relationship between the two main characters is interesting and powerful, I thought. Has anyone else read it?
Yes, I've read it - and I'm afraid I thought it was dreadful. On a level with the vacuous outpourings of David Eddings and the Shannanarah chap.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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I would be very tempted to add Stephen Lawhead to the list - specifically the first 3 of the Pendragon books. You could also have a Conan or two in there, as they're archetypal swords-and-sandals stuff.
For bang up-to-date, Joe Abercrombie is Lord Grimdark himself (Best Served Cold is a standalone), anything by Robin Hobb will be excellent, and for something a touch lighter, Naomi Novik (start with Temeraire).
(eta) I appear to have gone off at a tangent. Apologies. If you want 'romance', then go for Temeraire. It's about a man and a dragon, and there is romance, but not in That Way.
[ 18. June 2014, 23:32: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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If we are putting aside all children's and YA works, then books directed specifically to the adult reader:
C.S. Lewis's space trilogy is really fantasy.
A grand one-book work might be Charles Williams' ALL HALLOW'S EVE, his best fantasy novel (IMO). A classic short work is THE TIME MACHINE, by H.G.Wells. And for scary you can't beat DR, JEKYLL & MR. HYDE.
If you want an author who is still alive:
I maintain that the best fantasy novel extant today is CURSE OF CHALION by Lois McMaster Bujold -- one fat volume.
For a more historical-fantasy cast, consider TOOTH & CLAW by Jo Walton -- a Trollope novel, only with dragons! Or THE MOON AND THE SUN, by Vonda McIntyre, in which King Louis XIV finds a mermaid. JONATHAN STRANGE & MR.NORRELL is Dickensian, with faery. How about BRIDGE OF BIRDS, by Barry Hughart? set in a fantasy China.
Gaiman's NEVERWHERE is set in modern London, and underneath. So is Tom Holt's EXPECTING SOMEONE TALLER, which is killingly funny (a guy finds the Ring of the Nibelungs by the side of the road). All the Harry Dresden novels are set in modern Chicago. And my own work tends to be set in the US east coast.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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As you can see, you are totally spoiled for choice -- I can do this all day.
Perhaps you could be really really specific in your needs? No wizards, set in modern day southeast Asia...
Posted by basso (# 4228) on
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I'll second Brenda Clough's mention of Lois McMaster Bujold, but I'd choose instead the second novel set in that world, Paladin of Souls. It's a quest, with an engaging heroine who never picks up a sword throughout the book. She meets gods, though, and comes out not intact but certainly changed.
One of the many things I like about these books is that they are stand-alone novels set in the same universe. No need to enlist for the whole series -- each is satisfactory on its own.
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
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I read Daughter of the Forest by Juliet Marillier a few years ago and liked it very much considering I'm not usually a fantasy reader. It is loosely based on "The Six Swans" fairy tale. A girl must sew six shirts from a nettle plant in order to save her brothers from a witch's enchantment (they were turned into swans.) She can't speak until the job is done. There's a love story as well as sibling devotion. Very sad in places. I think teen girls would love it.
[ 19. June 2014, 00:44: Message edited by: Twilight ]
Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on
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Something by Guy Gavriel Kay. A Song for Arbonne. Set in a fantasy world similar to France and Germany at the time of the troubadors. Awesome book.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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Haroun and the Sea of Stories.
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on
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But wait, there's more;
Among Others by Jo Walton is an adolescent dealing with magic and a deranged mother as well as first love.
Swordspoint by Kushner is a fantasy about a gay romance in a feudal world with dueling.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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Whichever other Dianne Wynne Jones you use, you really should get them to read The Tough Guide to Fantasy Land.. Not only is it extremely funny, but it is a good starting point for looking at large swathes of the genre.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
The course I'm teaching is called 'Romance' and it's a degree-level course for adults. So I think books aimed at younger children will be out. But I love A Wizard of Earthsea, so that's definitely one in the re-read pile; also The Owl Service which I remember being spooked by as a teenager.
OK, if it's degree-level for adults and the theme is romance, then my personal suggestion would be Dunsany's King of Elfland's Daughter as this would fit the bill perfectly. It's fantasy, written in rich, purple prose that you need to savour slowly, lots of beautiful, poetic imagery, the theme of a quest - Alveric sees the King of Elfland's daughter and persuades her to come away to Middle Earth and live with him as his wife. She never quite adjusts, and a small impish troll is sent to bring her back. What follows is Alveric's quest to find her again.
Dunsany wrote many good things, but this is one of his best. The Wizard of Earthsea is also good but less of a romance.
Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on
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How has this thread had to many posts without a mention for Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials? It's a fine work, heavily influenced by The Chronicles of Narnia as well as Paradise Lost. It's got vivid imagery and a deeply philosophical/theological undercurrent which comes through to the surface in the final volume.
Best to give Stephen King's The Dark Tower series a miss, though. It had a great start, but tails off, including one volume which is not just influenced by, but entirely derived from Seven Samurai.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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I cannot second Lawhead. To my mind, all one can say for him is that he's one step better than Christian Fiction.
Barry Hughart is brilliant if you can find his books. Perhaps not strictly suitable for the course as described, but otherwise brilliant.
Robin Hobb is good, but writes thick fantasy trilogies. Her latest, the Dragon Keepers, was a disappointment being a thick fantasy quartet with too much padding.
Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell is again brilliant, but Long.
The only Guy Gavriel Kay I've ever really got on with is Tigana.
And yes - Tough Guide to Fantasyland is a must read.
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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If YA is not completely out of the question (I notice about half the suggestions are classed as YA) how about The Perilous Gard by Elizabeth Marie Pope - another reimagining of Tam Lin, set in Elizabethan England, featuring romance. You could even compare it with Diana Wynne Jones' Fire and Hemlock if you have time to read both - two very different books using the Tam Lin plot.
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on
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Since you'll want it self-contained, you will be a bit limited. The first Earthsea novel would be good--it's original and a good read, but a tad short perhaps. If you want something longer, you could go "Sword of Shannara"--yes, the rest of the series drags on endlessly, but the first book really was quite good. "Lord Foul's Bane" may be problematic depending on the age you're teaching as it gets a bit rapey. And depressing.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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I can't think how I forgot T H White. Yes, the Sword in the Stone is for the young, but the later three in the sequence are not. The Queen of Air and Darkness, The Illmade Knight, and The Candle in the Wind all deal with the Malory themes of incest, betrayal, and so on in the Arthurian cycle.
Alan Garner has some adult books, one of which, Boneland, addresses the unfinished sequence of Weirdstone and Gomrath. I have it sitting waiting to be read, so cannot comment on it.
I have a suspicion that the YA books deal more with deep stuff than the adult fantasy. Which I find more like the stuff Wynne Jones mocks in the Tough Guide. (I cannot imagine how she got away with that!)
Is there a book version of the film "Willow"?
You might find something in the work of Vera Chapman, who reworked Arthurian myth and romance; and Joy Chant. Again a bit YA. (Of "Red Moon and Black Mountain" a site comments both on her innovative use of skin colour in the peoples, and that in the climactic battle being about God, she made "The Last Battle" seem discreet.) Both women were connected somewhat with the Inklngs.
The Tertius novels by Robert Newman are also a bit YA.
I can't seem to think of anything much since Lewis "That Hideous Strength" and the Charles Williams' works.
There's Mary Stewart's Merlin sequence, and some additions to that world which are definitely in the tradition of medieval romance.
Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on
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If you want Tolkein but not Middle Earth then you could try Farmer Giles of Ham. It is very short and humerous and might be added to a list with other fantasy writers.
Jengie
E.t.a. Rosemary Sutcliffe wrote a retelling of the Arthurian legend called a Sword at Sunset that is definitely for adults and not for children. It may be anti-fantasy in some ways in that it removes the magical from the legend.
[ 19. June 2014, 13:00: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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Penny S: quote:
I have a suspicion that the YA books deal more with deep stuff than the adult fantasy.
Some do, certainly. I think all the YA books suggested so far have enough 'deep stuff' in them to keep degree-level students busy for a term. Sibling rivalry, human sacrifice, bereavement, coming of age, brainwashing, politics, drug culture... all in The Perilous Gard.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Alan Garner has some adult books, one of which, Boneland, addresses the unfinished sequence of Weirdstone and Gomrath. I have it sitting waiting to be read, so cannot comment on it.
It is in no way a children's or YA novel. It's complex, cryptic, disturbing, unsettling. Very different from the first two books, so much so as to feel unrelated - though it is. You won't get it all on the first reading. I read it twice and still don't know whether I liked it. It's not an easy read by any means.
Posted by Gildas (# 525) on
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John Brunner's 'Traveler in Black' is worth a look. As are the Hawkmoon and Corum sequences by Michael Moorcock. Also Gormenghast. Plus there's some bloke called George R. R. Martin who appears to have written the odd fantasy novel which appears to have come to the notice of the telly. Then there are the Norse Sagas, the Greek Myths, Malory und so weiter.
Wizard of Earthsea and the Owl Service were part of the curriculum for year 7 (ages 11-12) when I was year 7. I can heartily recommend both books but you may want something more challenging for your readers. One might add Susan Cooper's Dark Is Rising series - gorgeous, but perhaps not quite the thing for adults?
Posted by Gildas (# 525) on
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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
quote:
Rosemary Sutcliffe wrote a retelling of the Arthurian legend called a Sword at Sunset that is definitely for adults and not for children. It may be anti-fantasy in some ways in that it removes the magical from the legend.
Quite simply the best version of the Arthur story, ever. If you want myth and magic Malory, Tennyson, Stewart and Cornwell are all worth a look. But if you want to stand in the breach and hold the line against the coming darkness then Sutcliff is your go to person. Very topical if one happens to be a C of E clergyperson, one might add!
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
I've never read any Terry Pratchett -- what do people think? I suspect Mervyn Peake tips too much into gothic, and I would be treading on a colleague's toes there.
What pleasures await!
That's true about Peake, but it's a pity. Everyone should read the Gormenghast books, or at least the first two, at least once in their lives. I think Peake has the most visual prose style of anyone I've ever read.
Most of Pratchett's work has too much laugh-out-loud comedy in it to come under the heading of 'romance', I think. Some of the Guards books, though, have some moving stuff in them, and for my money Sam Vimes is Pratchett's most human creation.
I'll go with others and suggest Neil Gaiman. Neverwhere is great, but for your purposes Stardust might be even better - I think it's a total delight.
Posted by HCH (# 14313) on
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Many of these are excellent suggestions. I nominate
"Excalibur" by Sanders Anne Laubenthal and "The Last Unicorn" by Peter Beagle.
Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on
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There are lots of good suggestions here. But if you want a quest, and the supernatural, and a metamorphosis (kind of), and a connection to George Macdonald, and an awareness of the mediaeval world-view, then Brenda Clough's suggestion of Lewis's Cosmic Trilogy hits all those buttons. Especially Perelandra.
[ 19. June 2014, 15:33: Message edited by: TurquoiseTastic ]
Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on
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TO Your Scattered Bodies Go by Roger Zelazny might fit the bill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverworld
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Alan Garner has some adult books, one of which, Boneland, addresses the unfinished sequence of Weirdstone and Gomrath. I have it sitting waiting to be read, so cannot comment on it.
It is in no way a children's or YA novel. It's complex, cryptic, disturbing, unsettling. Very different from the first two books, so much so as to feel unrelated - though it is. You won't get it all on the first reading. I read it twice and still don't know whether I liked it. It's not an easy read by any means.
I heard him talking about it on the radio, while he and the interviewer were out on Alderley Edge - it was interesting to hear why he has waited so long to write it. One reason was that he had come not to like Colin and Susan very much.
It sounds as though I might be filing it with Red Shift.
Have you read Strandloper? I have that waiting as well.
I didn't put Rosemary Sutcliffe and "Sword at Sunset" down with Mary Stewart, because I mentaly classify it as this side of the historical/fantasy divide. But it's a fuzzy boundary.
Judith Tarr has done some stuff which would fit. The one I recall is "A Wind in Cairo", and I haven't seen most of the books listed in Wikipedia. Haven't made it over here, I suppose. Some of it postulates that the Norman Conquest was in order to restore the rule of magic to England after 6 centuries of being held under the dead hand of Saxons and Christianity. Definitely the other side of the boundary, and Duh?
Josepha Sherman wrote a couple of books based on Russian folk tales, one of which was called "The Shining Falcon" and was based on the story of Fenist the Falcon, one of the Beauty and the Beast, Cupid and Psyche group of stories. Shortly after that appeared a male writer also started to write from that source, less effectively, I thought. The falcon book I read while flu-rid, twice in rapid succession, and then read bits out to a friend. She approaches the missing mass problem of shapeshifting, but then ignores it. If you look at her bibliography, you'll see what a broad and honourable record of writing she had. Star Trek! Buffy!
[ 19. June 2014, 16:06: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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Um. TO YOUR SCATTERED BODIES GO was by Philip Jose Farmer. He, BTW, is famous for a rather heavy sexual content, another factor to consider. If you want Zelazny, you cannot miss with LORD OF LIGHT, a one-volume tour-de-force.
Consider availability. Does the work have to be in print, so that the school bookstore can order it in, or will your pupils be happy wandering over to used book web sites to fish up the out-of-print? Do you allow or perhaps even prefer an electronic edition? Many of the works mentioned above will not be findable in paper form except in used book stores.
I would not pick up BONELAND unless I had already read WEIRDSTONE OF BRISINGAMEN and MOON OF GOMRATH. You have not a prayer of understanding it unless you have thoroughly mastered both works.
Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on
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I think Pratchett is a great idea as well. But I think he would be a contrast to the MacDonald and mediaevalism. He has a very twentieth-century humanist feel, somehow (that is probably a pretentious way of putting it). For the nihilist alternative, there's always The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Edited to add: if there's one book by Pratchett to go for, I'd probably make it Small Gods .
[ 19. June 2014, 16:05: Message edited by: TurquoiseTastic ]
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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I think I'd go for Lords and Ladies of Pratchett's, because of sending up the - shh, mustn't name them, er, what Kipling said, phariseeses - which would be more in keeping with a medieval romance (I'm assuming not soppy lovey-dovey drivel but the root meaning here).
Andre Norton did a version of Huon of Bordeaux, which I fell upon with relief, as I could never make anything of the references in Pook Hill, and Rewards and Fairies. I was deeply disappointed that it was not possible to find the source in the library in Bateman's. How's a child likely to know that stuff.
Poul Anderson did a sequence based on the medieval Brittany legend of Ys.
I am reminded by the Kipling Huon connection of Richard Parker, the Sword of Ganelon. I read it as a YA, it was presumably in the Folkestone school library because part of it was set in the villa on the cliff there. It played with the fall-out of the Roland and Oliver romance. And King Alfred as mystical heir of Arthur. Not sure where it lies on the fuzzy boundary.
[ 19. June 2014, 16:18: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posted by Snags (# 15351) on
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Possibly a bit left-field, but you could do worse than add Mary Gentle to the list, particular "Ash". "Grunts" is a hoot, but not really what you're looking for. It (Ash, not Grunts) has more of an SF 'feel' but sits within fantasy/alternative history territory.
Very, very left-field might stretch to "The Gargoyle" (Andrew Davidson) or even Zelazny's Amber series depending on quite how one is defining "romance" (I'm assuming more literary than popular understanding of schlock).
Edited for clarification (but not much)
[ 19. June 2014, 16:26: Message edited by: Snags ]
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on
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I don't read a lot of fantasy, but The Book of Lost Things, by John Connelly, is pretty good
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on
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Actually, disregard that - it's 21st century, not 20th century. It's a good novel though, if you fancy reading it for yourself.
Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on
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Thanks for the author correction, Brenda. I had a brain freeze.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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Neil Gaiman's Stardust is actually a rather good recommendation for postmodern fantasy.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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The other thing you could hardly fail at is to select from the list of winners of the World Fantasy Award. Some really sterling works there: REPLAY, by Ken Grimwood ("Groundhog Day" before there was the movie). THE PRESTIGE, by Christopher Priest (Victorian magicians duel -- added bonus, a movie version starring Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale, and, OMG, David Bowie as Nicola Tesla).
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
It sounds as though I might be filing it [Boneland] with Red Shift.
I would file it with Thursbitch, which, speaking of modern fantasy, is another in the same mould as Boneland that bears re-reading and close scrutiny but is a disturbing book to read.
quote:
Have you read Strandloper? I have that waiting as well.
I went off Garner after reading Boneland and Thursbitch. They're very clever novels, but difficult to like.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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Niminypiminy,
What do you mean by romance? That there be a romantic element or that it be a Romance Novel with wizards and dragons?
If the former, you will not find much better than The King of Efland's Daughter.
If the latter, you may struggle to find anything decent. And what little there is will likely be in the YA category.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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Tch. There are some profoundly romantic fantasy novels, written specifically to straddle the genres. The great Anne McCaffrey was the one of the earliest writers to do this; her RESTOREE specifically tried to do both things. CURSE OF CHALION is deliciously romantic, or you could move onto Bujold's Sharing Knife series, also specifically designed to be both romance and fantasy.
Here is an entire page of suggestions from Goodreads:
https://www.goodreads.com/genres/fantasy-romance
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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I did say decent didn't I?
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Alright, I will have to admit a bias against romance novels in general.* Adding swords and magic doesn't change this.
And I consider McCaffrey to be YA.
*In general, there is good in nearly every genre.
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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Would Lanark count as fantasy? Or would it now the term exists, be classed a Magic Realism?
Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on
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These are fascinating questions -- and the kind that the course is intended to raise. What is a genre -- how elastic is the term romance? what's the overlap between romance and other genres? And romance is particularly interesting because at all stages of its development it's been derided. The argument I'm making is that latterly the genre of romance has bifurcated, becoming romance fiction on the one hand, and fantasy on the other -- both of these genres draw from the conventions and themes of earlier romances.
To put this in context, the course starts with medieval romances of various kinds, the Winter's Tale, then The Female Quixote (C18th novel about the dangers of reading romances), Phantastes, Woolf's Orlando and then a Mills&Boon or Harlequin, and ending up with Bridget Jones's Diary. The fantasy novel will come somewhere in the last third.
So many of the novels mentioned will pick up on themes from throughout the course. In fact there are so many excellent suggestions I am now considering proposing a course on fantasy...
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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That sounds ambitious.
The problem with 'romance' as a genre term is that the development of the novel is bound up with the ostensible rejection of the romance form while being heavily indebted to it. Think obviously of Tom Jones as a comic romance, or Richardson's Pamela named after one of the princesses in Sidney's Arcadia, or the complex attitude that Northanger Abbey has to the Mysteries of Udolpho. If romance is what the novel defines itself against, then romance is as broad as the novel itself, since novels mostly define themselves against other novels. (I don't know whether one can even make the same distinction in French as one does in English.)
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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If LOTR is too long, then you're going to have issues with a lot of the classics because so many of them are series of books rather than single novels.
I'm quite a fan of Stephen Donaldson myself, but I'm not sure I could recommend Lord Foul's Bane as a stand-alone book, and any of the later of his fantasy books might not make a great deal of sense on its own.*
Oh heck. I could recommend Lord Foul's Bane, actually, as a kind of anti-fantasy fantasy. I just don't think it's the best of the series. But it's still better than a lot of other stuff.
It would certainly raise a lot of questions about genre. I actually first read it, or tried to read it, aged about 13 because it was sitting in the high school library with the other fantasy and sci fi books. Clearly, the librarians had no idea it involves a rape scene quite early on. They just lumped all of it together, with a thoroughly adult book stuck next to the silly David Eddings stuff (I tried Eddings several years later, and my God did it seem childish after Donaldson).
*Plus the finest work of his that I've read is his SF series, rather than fantasy.
[ 19. June 2014, 22:56: Message edited by: orfeo ]
Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on
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Everybody else has already covered anything I might have suggested, but it might be worth reading the list of Fantasy Masterworks published by Gollancz. There's some good stuff on there, apart from those works already mentioned.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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Yes, there has been a change in the meaning of the word over about the last hundred years or so. Certainly between the wars when you said a novel was a romance it had a clear sense of adventure, buckles being swashed, and action. Love might come into it, but that was only a part of the mosaic. Works might include THE THREE MUSKETEERS, or KING SOLOMON'S MINES, or SHE, even KIM. All the works of John Buchan were romances.
The word -now- tends to mean what we might unkindly term bodice rippers. Works that revolve mainly around a romantic relationship, everything else second to that. The Romance Writers of America have a clear definition of the term (it's on their web site), and among the other requisites is a happy ending, either Happily Ever After (HEA) or Happy For Now (HFN). A work that does not have HEA or HFN cannot be a romance novel. If you write such a work, it cannot be published as romance; if you publish such a work and say it is a romance novel the readers complain bitterly.
You can see that the two meanings of the term can, but do not necessarily, overlap. There are many works that fully meet both criteria, and there are many works that not only meet both criteria but also take in the conventions of SF or mystery or Westerns or horror. Much, MUCH time can be wasted talking to people who are thinking of one while you are thinking of the other.
So your first task might be to fix upon which definition of the word you are working with. (I would get it into the course description as well so that the students will know what they're getting, and to save yourself time.)
Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on
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Mythago Wood by Robert Holdstock is rather good, though I didn't like/finish the sequel, Lavondyss
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on
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The Phoenix and The Mirror by Avram DAvidson is wonderful, although the romantic relationship in it is not central and not a good one. The book may be hard to find.
Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
That sounds ambitious.
The problem with 'romance' as a genre term is that the development of the novel is bound up with the ostensible rejection of the romance form while being heavily indebted to it. Think obviously of Tom Jones as a comic romance, or Richardson's Pamela named after one of the princesses in Sidney's Arcadia, or the complex attitude that Northanger Abbey has to the Mysteries of Udolpho. If romance is what the novel defines itself against, then romance is as broad as the novel itself, since novels mostly define themselves against other novels. (I don't know whether one can even make the same distinction in French as one does in English.)
Yes indeed. The Female Quixote raises all those questions very well (and very funnily) because it's a comic novel all about what happens if you mistake romance for reality. Sadly it's now out of print, so I'm going to replace it with Northanger Abbey.
But I think romance is interesting because it's so elastic -- but also because it's always been regarded as trashy and escapist, the thing that the serious novel defines itself against while (as you say) being repeatedly borrowed and parodied by the novel.
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on
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Tolkien's Essay on Fairie Tales (sp?) It was published in a wee book called Tree and Leaf along with a delightful short story called Leaf, by Niggle
Of Alan Garner I would go for Red Shift or The Owl Service but that's because I didn't like Boneland
Ursula Le Guin The Lathe Of Heaven or Tehanu the last of the Earthsea books.
and other vote for Neil Gaiman, who I hadn't read until someone mentioned him on the Ship.
Huia
[ 20. June 2014, 08:45: Message edited by: Huia ]
Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on
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I would give George MacDonald's 'Lilith' a go. I know it's the same author, but in my opinion, it is by far the greatest fantasy novel ever written.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
The Female Quixote raises all those questions very well (and very funnily) because it's a comic novel all about what happens if you mistake romance for reality. Sadly it's now out of print, so I'm going to replace it with Northanger Abbey.
The Oxford World Classics website doesn't say anything about Female Quixote being out of print.
Posted by Arch Anglo Catholic (# 15181) on
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The Dark is Rising by Susan Cooper has my vote.
Fun, relatively short, a good moral message and a prize winner, set at Christmas and the protagonist is 11 years old, so what's not to like for the early teen?
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I would give George MacDonald's 'Lilith' a go. I know it's the same author, but in my opinion, it is by far the greatest fantasy novel ever written.
I nearly recommended it, but then I thought of Lorna and the Little Ones, the cats and the "seeberries", and went off it.
Posted by agingjb (# 16555) on
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Stephen Donaldson's Mordant's Need, just two books, may not be too long, and is very much a romance.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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Yes, it is important to consider the age of the students. Some material possibly not suitable for the more tender age.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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The OPer has already said it's a degree-level course for adults, do I think we need not hold back on recommendations with challenging content.
Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on
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I'm going to put in a passing nomination for Arthur C. Clarke's "The City and the Stars". He could spin a tale, even if his characters are a bit wooden. There is speculation about the future of the human race, a quest and--well, a little bit of romance. Romance isn't central to the story, but it does exist (done about as well as one might expect from a male science fiction writer of his period). It's one of the few things I read in my childhood which stuck with me until I finally re-read it 40 years later.
[ 20. June 2014, 16:23: Message edited by: Organ Builder ]
Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on
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It is a course for adults not YA but the best YA fantasy is better than most adult stuff. Hence the discussion of it here.
Jengie
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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OK. Mark Chadbourn's World's End is pretty definitely not for children. Grim, gritty, raw, compelling, it tells the story of how the old Celtic gods and the irrational, wild and supernatural side come back into everyday 20th century life. Five very different Londoners find themselves picked to carry out the quest to restore the Lost Treasures to the land, with the aid of someone they much later discover is Thomas the Rhymer, who appears as an ageing hippy. They are hunted mercilessly by the powers of evil and none of them remain unscathed.
It's closer to horror, dark and detailed, but excellently told and with a few twists you don't see coming. This trilogy (World's End is the first in the series, and the complete trilogy is called Age of Misrule) is a gripping read and left me wanting more. His other books in and around the trilogy are also pretty good.
Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant novels are dark with an unlikeable anti-hero. I have the set, but they always make me feel a bit queasy. There's nothing beautiful or refreshing about them, as Donaldson seems to enjoy dwelling on the more repulsive elements, and there's plenty of unpleasant imagery to go with the leper hero, the rape he commits, the fights and blood-spills, etc.
LOTR is actually three books in one, which everybody knows but which often gets overlooked. If you wanted to bring that in, The Fellowship of the Ring is the first one, and lighter in tone than the rest, with the cheerful hobbits setting out on the adventure, before it progresses into the darker story told in the next two books.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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Thomas Covenant is the sort of thing that teenagers think is brilliant - angst, gratuitous suffering, gray vs jet black morality. It's a precursor of the grim dark aesthetic that was all over genre fiction in the early nineties. Unfortunately the grimdark aesthetic was not an automatic guarantee of quality, and when it was bad it was horrid. I have a feeling that Thomas Covenant, while not horrid, was not actually all that good either.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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I thought that; the author's writing style and vocabulary annoyed me as well.
"Hellfire," grated Covenant, his ire roused as he regarded Linden's mien and the roiling clouds behind her.
Nobody ever just has (for example) a face in the Covenant stories. They have a visage, countenance or mien, but never just a simple face. And so it goes.
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on
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On a mata-tangent, I'm fond of the Ursula Leguin essay "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie" which discusses the nature of fantasy.
Posted by not entirely me (# 17637) on
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Neverwhere and Stardust by Neil Gaiman both seem like pretty good suggestions to me.
Although for something a tad obscure and more philosophy than fantasy you could try Maya by Jostein Gaarder.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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I have an allergy to Stephen Donaldson, also Robert Jordan and Stephen King.However, there is no accounting for taste.
There are all kinds of subgenrelets in fantasy fiction. Steampunk, for instance, or vampires or zombies. Or historical military -- a great example would be TEMERAIRE by Naomi Novik. I coined one of my own, contemporary suburban fantasy (in which the protagonists drive minivans instead of dragons).
Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on
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Charles Williams's 'All Hallow's Eve' was mentioned upthread. IMO, his 'War in Heaven' is a better place to start with his novels. My favorite is perhaps 'Many Dimensions,' which has one major character first encountered in 'War in Heaven.'
In re: CSLewis space trilogy, they are each 'stand-alone,' in that one doesn't HAVE to read them together or in sequence, though it's surely better to do so. But in any case, the grand crescendo of the final chapters of 'That Hideous Strength' well repays some of the rather horrifying preceding events.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by agingjb:
Stephen Donaldson's Mordant's Need, just two books, may not be too long, and is very much a romance.
Actually YES, why didn't I think of that for Donaldson??
Probably because truth be told, I don't like it quite as much as some of his other work, but you're right, it is far more in a romantic vein than his other work, too.
EDIT: And I recognise why some people have an issue with Donaldson's writing style. My instinct is to say that his later SF series, 'The Gap', is better than the Thomas Covenant books, but in truth I can't guarantee that the writing style has changed that much. Maybe I was just gripped by the drama of the story (which is inspired to a degree by Wagner's Ring Cycle).
[ 21. June 2014, 00:27: Message edited by: orfeo ]
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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Although they are series of books, rather than a single book, I would heartily recommend the Belgariad and the Malloreon by David Eddings (both sets of 5 books), closely followed by the Elenium and the Tamuli (both sets of 3 books). The Belgariad especially has interesting characters and good dollops of humour to go with the magic and the quest.
Depending upon how you define "fantasy", I would also nominate American Gods by Neil Gaiman. Thinking of him also brings to mind Neverwhere (which became a book after being a brilliant TV series). And how about the most amazing Good Omens by Gaiman and Pratchett. I read this book probably once a year and still laugh out loud.
Finally, how about Rivers of London by Ben Aaronovitch? It is the start of a series of books about the same character, but is self contained.
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on
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I don't have much to suggest that hasn't been mentioned (though I recoil in horror from some <cough>Stephen Donaldson<cough>), but I would say that if you want something in the classic vein (by which I mean a more or less medieval setting with wizards and dragons, etc.), A Wizard of Earthsea is probably your best choice.
Peter Beagle's The Last Unicorn is a true classic, though in some ways it's a parody, and will be best appreciated by those who are deeply familiar with the genre. His more recent work is also terrific: The Innkeeper's Song is the one he considers his best, and it is outstanding, and in that medieval quest territory, though with a modern feel (especially about sex and gender roles).
However, if you want something that feels a bit more contemporary, you might consider urban fantasy, of which Charles DeLint is the leading practitioner: Trader and Onion Girl are two of my favorites. Also Emma Bull's War for the Oaks and Finder; R.A. MacAvoy's Tea With the Black Dragon; Terri Windling's The Wood Wife; and Robin Mckinley's Sunshine.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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If you're going urban, Tom Holt's books set in John Wellington Well's business in Simmery Axe might fit the bill.
I didn't really get into Donaldson - I read through a few Covenant books but gave up. I had to go down to the library with a list of words I could not deduce from context because he always used them in exactly the same way and never used another word to describe the same thing. And when I got there, I found that many of them were not to be found in the 20 volume Oxford. I needed Webster, and then they were classified as obselete. Roynish is the only one I recall - still without its meaning.
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on
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Would George R. Stewart's Earth Abides qualify as being of that genre? It is about mid as 20th Century as you can get, is well written and has a believable plot - I was about to write that it is both depressing and hopeful but am not at all sure that makes any sort of sense.
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I was about to write that it is both depressing and hopeful but am not at all sure that makes any sort of sense.
I makes sense to any genre of fiction written in the immediate post-war period.
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on
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Another who couldn't get into Stephen Donaldson and I was so irritated by David Eddings' portrayal of female characters in the Malloreon series (having read the Belgariad series) that I stopped reading fantasy for years, but I love the Ben Aaronovitch books and think the Colour of Magic books by Pratchett were redeemed by The Luggage and the descriptions of the Unseen University. None of which really fit a romantic theme although Ben Aaronovitch has a very modern take on relationships.
It's ages since I read any, but I found Piers Anthony's books an interesting way of dealing with real life issues - he tackled things like self-harm, for example, through fantasy, but that's about all I can remember.
If you want classic, there's Dune or Asimov
Posted by Curious Kitten (# 11953) on
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If you've got to do a Ursula le Guin I'd suggest Left Hand of Darkness, which is technically a sci-fi but very influential.
Asimov's First Contact, is free from project Gutenburg, short and amazing. It makes far more use of the tropes and tricks of the fantasy genre than his Foundations series as brilliant as that is.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
None of which really fit a romantic theme although Ben Aaronovitch has a very modern take on relationships.
File under "Occult Detectives" in the tradition of John Silence, Carnacki, Dr Taverner, Duke de Richleau, etc etc.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I was so irritated by David Eddings' portrayal of female characters in the Malloreon series (having read the Belgariad series)
I only remember one female character in David Eddings. She's a master of disguise and appears with a number of different names and hairstyles, and can even appear more than once in the same scene talking to herself like Tatiana Maslany, but she's obviously the same person every time.
I can remember three male characters. Each one made out of the very best cardboard.
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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It's interesting how different people see things. I really enjoyed the Belgariad and Mallorean and didn't see problems with the characterisations.
But then, I did read them after trying (for the umpteenth time) to read Stephen Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" - which I found to be the most tedious pile of horse manure I had ever encountered.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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The funny thing about the Thomas Covenant books is that, when I first read them as a teenager, I found every one of the first 3 books, at least, to be problematic.
In fact I think it took me 3 attempts before I made it through the first one.
I'm not sure why I kept trying. I think as much as anything it was probably because that had never happened to me before. I was a good reader. I'd never found getting through a book challenging.
So I went back.
And here's the interesting thing: again with at least the first 3 books, in each case I'd get to about a third of the way through the book and suddenly the dam would break. From then on I'd be in the rhythm of the language and it would be fine. The second book, The Illearth War, is now one of my favourites. For me, events rise to a desperate and gripping crescendo. To me that's pretty much what Donaldson is about, desperate and gripping crescendos.
Anyway, I guess I've effectively ruled them out for a class, you don't really want something that most people will struggle through at first (even if they'd enjoy it if they persevered). I still like the suggestion of the Mordant's Need pair of books, though - distinctly less 'tough' than Donaldson's other works and more 'romantic'.
Can't see anything wrong with the Ursula le Guin or Neil Gaiman suggestions either, by the way. I thoroughly enjoyed Gaiman's American Gods. There were a couple of other suggestions of series I remember fondly but they seemed more for younger readers. I personally have zero interest in ever reading more David Eddings.
Posted by Boadicea Trott (# 9621) on
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The Fionavar Tapestry series by Guy Gavriel Kay: "The Summer Tree", "The Wandering Fire" and "The Darkest Road".
It is a cross-over between Toronto and Fionavar, with great themes on free will decisions and forgiveness.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
It's interesting how different people see things. I really enjoyed the Belgariad and Mallorean and didn't see problems with the characterisations.
But then, I did read them after trying (for the umpteenth time) to read Stephen Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" - which I found to be the most tedious pile of horse manure I had ever encountered.
I can't read either Eddings or Donaldson, I'm afraid. The first is so silly I suspect him of playing an elaborate practical joke on his readers, the second so dismal I fear for his sanity - and neither one can write well.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I can't think how I forgot T H White. Yes, the Sword in the Stone is for the young, but the later three in the sequence are not. The Queen of Air and Darkness, The Illmade Knight, and The Candle in the Wind all deal with the Malory themes of incest, betrayal, and so on in the Arthurian cycle.
Just because of this thread, I went and read a couple of my favourite chapters of The Candle in the Wind. I'd forgotten how painfully beautiful that book is! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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All of them were extensively reworked to become THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING, and there is a further book, THE BOOK OF MERLYN, which was published posthumously.
What is fascinating about White is the way he took a quite elaborate and definite mythos and overlaid upon it an entire modern theme and sensibility. One of the finest examples of upcycling you will ever see.
And, his stand-alone fantasy MISTRESS MASHAM'S REPOSE is a gem that should be far better known.
Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on
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How about modern fairy tales, Snow White, Blood Red is a good anthology, there was a second by the same editors - Black Thorn, White Rose.
They are really very good.
Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on
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The Merlin trilogy by Mary Stewart is an excellent retelling of the Arthur story. The first one, The Crystal Cave stands alone well enough to be used by itself in a course.
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
I can't read either Eddings or Donaldson, I'm afraid. The first is so silly I suspect him of playing an elaborate practical joke on his readers,
Well, he managed to write the same story twice, in 16 books plus spin-offs, and get paid for it.
(Belgariad / Elenium: Oh no! big disaster! Our Hero (tm) and his gang of cardboard buddies (one representing each group of good guys) have to trek half way around the world to find a magic blue rock. Oh, and kill an evil god.
Malloreon / Tamuli: Oh no! Now there's an evil red rock! Our Hero (tm) and his cardboard buddies have to trek half way across the world with the magic blue rock to fight it. Along the way, we discover that the magic coloured rocks are even more powerful than we thought before.)
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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In the field, we have a term for this. It is Extruded Fantasy Product, on the analogy of Cheez Whiz.
Posted by Net Spinster (# 16058) on
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Lot of suggestions I agree with (and quite a few I don't). I second Bujold and will put in a mention for Patricia A. McKillip ("Forgotten Beasts of Eld", "The Book of Atrix Wolfe").
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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While suggesting T H White and Mary Stewart, I kept having the feeling that somewhere in my memory was lurking something else really good.
I still can't find it.*
I have, however recalled Robin McKinley's YA reworking of old tales, and the first one of hers I read, "The Blue Sword".
*As it seems to be lurking in the same place that half forgotten dreams hang out, it may be one of those, and have no resolution.
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
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Chalice. Also by Robin McKinley.
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
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I know it's a degree level course, but Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time, though ostensibly a chidren's book, is actually well worth examining. She manages to incorporate some tough concepts in physics e.g. what she describes as tessering in what scientists have called the best explanations ever of the process.
Nor would I exclude Kipling's Puck of Pook's Hill and Rewards and Fairies. Not exactly mid 20thC, but Kipling's voice is individual. Definitely not mid 19thC!
Nicholas Stuart Grey wrote reworkings of fairy tales, notably The Seventh Swan,after the story by Hans Andersen, and The Stone Cage {Rapunzel. Grimm?} Both sadly out of print, but worth considering if you can find them.
Posted by Vulpior (# 12744) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
...The Owl Service which I remember being spooked by as a teenager. ...
Ditto. I've just about completed my Alan Garner collection in order to reread things from my youth, and I remember The Owl Service being strange and scary. Like Penny S I have Boneland waiting to be read, and I note Ariel's observations.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
I know it's a degree level course, but Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time, though ostensibly a chidren's book, is actually well worth examining. She manages to incorporate some tough concepts in physics e.g. what she describes as tessering in what scientists have called the best explanations ever of the process.
Nor would I exclude Kipling's Puck of Pook's Hill and Rewards and Fairies. Not exactly mid 20thC, but Kipling's voice is individual. Definitely not mid 19thC!
Nicholas Stuart Grey wrote reworkings of fairy tales, notably The Seventh Swan,after the story by Hans Andersen, and The Stone Cage {Rapunzel. Grimm?} Both sadly out of print, but worth considering if you can find them.
Three I had not mentioned but two I thought of. I have recently given the Seventh Swan away to Oxfam! I think it was once done as a radio play.
And it reminds of Naomi Mitchison, since some of hers occupy the same Scottish territory. There was also "To the Chapel Perilous" which plays with the Holy Grail myths. Which leads me to Priestley's "The 31st of June" which I want a copy of, which does a sort of Yankee at the court of King Arthur stuff.
Back to Mitchison, I think "The Corn King and the Spring Queen" might have been the one lurking in my mind.
Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
...
And, his stand-alone fantasy MISTRESS MASHAM'S REPOSE is a gem that should be far better known.
I came upon Mistres Masham's Repose quite by accident -- it was in a box of books I bought at auction. I loved it at first reading, and I re-read it often. The characterizations are superb, and the tropes from all over the countryside of literature are quite amazing. (The illustrations help a lot, too!)
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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It is sad, if you are over at Goodreads, to read the evaluations of MISTRESS MASHAM'S REPOSE. People complain of the digressions. It is a style of fiction that alas is not very popular these days. OTOH it is surely just about ripe for rediscovery.
Posted by Ann (# 94) on
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Not sure how easy it would be to find - The Golden Key by Jennifer Roberson, Melanie Rawn, and Kate Elliott involves a sweep of history in a sort of parallel Spain with Moorish influence and a heroine trapped in a painting.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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If you are willing to buy used it is possible to find almost any published book on the internet. After you work through Amazon and Ebay, go over to abebooks.com, the clearinghouse for used book stores. These resources have been my Apollyon for years. If these three avenues and a generalized google search fail you, then it is indeed unavailable. (And, of course, if money is no object. Shipping a book from over sea is spendy.)
The only irritation with this for the OP is that if you want a dozen or twenty identical books for a class to be available at the university bookstore. Do teachers send their students out these days into the web, with the instruction, "Go buy yourself a copy of WIVES AND DAUGHTERS by Elizabeth Gaskell!" (Which is available on Project Gutenberg, btw, another powerful resource for anything in public domain.)
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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Stephen Donaldson, if nothing else because of the twist that the (anti-)hero is from our world.
If I'm allowed an entry from the science-fantasy genre, then Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Stephen Donaldson, if nothing else because of the twist that the (anti-)hero is from our world.
Hardly a twist, since it's announced from the outset. I think it's more uncommon to have a protagonist from our world (especially in adult novels) than it used to be. But still one couldn't call it unexpected.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Which is available on Project Gutenberg, btw, another powerful resource for anything in public domain.
Are texts on Project Gutenberg properly edited?
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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I now recall Alison Croggon and the Pellinor Quartet. She uses the concept of documents found in our world and time (in Morocco, I think), which have been translated and revealed an earlier time in which magic was used. Her map*, at least, shows similarities with another, and there are other resonances. Her writing style is good. Like the Blue Sword, it has a female central character finding out about her gifts, and like many others it has a nameless dark personage who has to be defeated.
* Maps of Pellinor I can't see where this is supposed to be in the history or geological history of our planet.
[ 26. June 2014, 17:17: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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Sorry about double posting, but I have just found that the map talks! And has a problem with east and west.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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I don't know much about how Project Gutenberg selects its editions, but they are all public domain. In other words, if you want that enlightening 40-page foreword written by a prominent scholar, you have to go buy the Penguin Classics edition.
I'm afraid that a hero (or anti-hero) plucked from Earth is an extraordinarily common trope in the genre. OUT OF THE SILENT PLANET. THE WORM OUROBOUROS. JOHN CARTER OF MARS. Pellucidar. Narnia. RED MOON, BLACK MOUNTAIN. (There's one we haven't mentioned yet -- Joy Chant, an author who should have written many more books. Her GREY MANE OF MORNING is stupendous and should be far better known.)
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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I think I mentioned Joy Chant above somewhere.
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on
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Because she had a busy personal and professional life Chant only wrote novels during vacations. Which means she only wrote 3 or 4 in her lifetime. Tragic.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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"The Crock of Gold" by James Stephens
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