Ship of Fools: Praying to the Porcelain God and Other Joys of Intoxication

Thread: Praying to the Porcelain God and Other Joys of Intoxication Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Why? This is my biggest question, why get drunk?
Understand, I am not a tea total and am no priss. I understand the lure of mild intoxication, but not the draw of violently emptying the contents of one's stomach, the blinding headache, blurred memory, nauseous, slow motion Hell of a next morning. That limits are pushed occasionally, understandable. That limits are pushed intentionally..... [Confused]

I am not speaking of alcoholism mind, that is a different thing. Nor the "I just wish to forget today, tonight". I am speaking of purposely getting destroyed, for fun.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

My wife of 10 years told me she wanted a divorce.

Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on :

Because it feels good?

It may not feel good in the morning but often, in the moment, the feeling of drunkenness is quite pleasant.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

lilBuddha, it sounds as though you are a miserable puke of a drunk. A drinker ought to know his limit and stop before what you describe ensues.

It doesn't happen often for me, but some of us are happy chatty euphoric drunks, who after the back-slapping, hale-fellow-well-met camaraderie of community intoxication settle down to sleep the load off, waking up somewhat subdued the next morning.

[ 31. May 2014, 17:24: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

Once, in my youth, I had two roommates. When it came time for us all to go our separate ways, we thought it fitting that as part of dissolving the household, we should properly dispose of all the liquor.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

You might want to watch Bill Bailey on the subject.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

There's a culture in which the ability to do this is praised.
There's also the thrill of intense experience. People who cut themselves or run marathons might seem to have similar motivations.

Posted by Signaller (# 17495) on :

I am teetotal, always have been. I tell people it's because I don't like the taste. Really, I can't stand the thought of not being in control of myself. What I might find myself saying or doing, and the potential consequences, scares me.

Watching the effects drink has on other people has only ever confirmed this feeling. So no, I can't understand why anyone should want to get drunk.

I am very glad that I have never needed it as a prop.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

I'll let you know when I get back in.

Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :

In my case it's cos sometimes I fancy a gin, or glass of wine, much like I may fancy a curry or some chocolate.
But the alcohol in the nice tasting drinks lowers my willpower and so it's easy to have a second (or third) which doesn't happen as much with non alcoholic things, although I can be just as bad with biscuits, which don't cause a hangover.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I don't do it any more. I'm happy with a couple of glasses of red, maybe three if pushing the boat out.

I can't quite remember why I used to do it. Not social pressure, there have always been some in our circle who didn't drink or just had one or two - and they never get any pressure.

I must have enjoyed it. But I've done some silly things whilst drunk in the past, so I'm glad both my sons drink in moderation.

Posted by Gareth (# 2494) on :

I think it is no different from ordering the strongest curry on the menu, buying the most powerful car you can find, being the loudest person in the room, and all other unsophisticated ways of showing off.

Not that there's anything wrong with showing off, obviously. It's just that it is always fun to sneer at other people's methods of showing off when they aren't as sophisticated or clever as your own.

Posted by Galilit (# 16470) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
Because it feels good?

It may not feel good in the morning but often, in the moment, the feeling of drunkenness is quite pleasant.

Ditto!

I feel so good I'll have another.
Then another.
Then "Oh to hell with it, it's months since I got really sloshed. I'll wipe the slate clean of trauma, insult, existential angst, etc". Btw, I do delineate the "etc" coz the rest are besetting phenomena so I could always use them as a starting point so they're worthless to include I suppose. But it does calibrate them back to zero which is helpful.

Of course I am also a New Zealander.

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :

Do it long enough and the symptoms the OP described go away. Which means you can drink a bottle of whisky a day and still be a functioning person. In fact some people NEED to do that. It brings its own problems.

Heavy drinkers don't NEED to of course. They are just heavy drinkers.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
lilBuddha, it sounds as though you are a miserable puke of a drunk.

Ever the poetic turn of phrase, TSA. Never been drunk, though. I've had to deal with the aftermath of those who have.

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:

A drinker ought to know his limit and stop before what you describe ensues.

I agree and that many seem not to is what prompted this thread.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

To be able to control your drinking in a lot of cases takes a lot of trial and error. In my case a lot of the latter.

But I have never gone out with the intention of getting drunk, and have never understood the intention of getting drunk.

Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on :

I remember reading a book in the 90s about an ex-heroin addict. I don't know if you were in the UK at the time and/or remember the anti-drugs PSAs of the time but the character in this book commented that one thing they got wrong was that they made it look so miserable - grey, sickly-looking people in dingy, dirty apartments, talking about how they could "handle it" and are "just a bit sick today".

The thing they left out he said was how good it felt. Sure there were downsides, plenty of them and very serious, but if there wasn't some real pleasure to be had then people wouldn't do it. Refusal to admit that simple fact weakened the effect of the campaign - the people who needed to hear it most didn't feel it reflected their experience.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

Late Paul wrote:

quote:
The thing they left out he said was how good it felt. Sure there were downsides, plenty of them and very serious, but if there wasn't some real pleasure to be had then people wouldn't do it. Refusal to admit that simple fact weakened the effect of the campaign - the people who needed to hear it most didn't feel it reflected their experience.

Yes, anti-drug propagandists often seem to be "high on their own supply", as it were, actually believing the canards they put out about how people do illegal drugs because "they have an emptiness in their lives" or "peer pressure" etc.

Whereas, in reality, people do drugs because they get a mental kick out of them, same as with legal drugs. Sure, to some extent, it might fill some ill-defined "emptiness", but you could say the same thing about any number of trivial pasttimes.

And peer pressure is the most ridiculous concept. It might explain why people start doing a drug, but it hardly explains why they would continue(in the absence of some positive feeling). I dislike with intensity the physical effects of alcohol, and I can assure you that no amount of peer pressure has made me want to take a drink since I started foregoing the "pleasure" over a decade ago.

[ 31. May 2014, 19:11: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:

And peer pressure is the most ridiculous concept. It might explain why people start doing a drug, but it hardly explains why they would continue(in the absence of some positive feeling).

Isn't the point that the combination matters? You're not going to be persuaded to drink, because you dislike it. But consider someone who enjoys a mild buzz. Left to his own devices, perhaps he'd have a couple of beers and stop. Add in a bit of peer pressure - he's got to stand his round, we've got time for one more before we go, let's get some snacks and another round, and so on, and he's been drinking steadily all evening and now the pubs are chucking out.

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

Ref the OP I've never understood intentionally getting puking drunk, but in my misspent youth regularly did it by accident. I like beer. If I'm out, I'll drink beer. After a while I don't notice how quickly they're going. And I feel fine. So ... redo from start until I think "Oops, should have stopped three pints ago. Best go to the loo". Even knowing this it has taken many years to get to the point where I keep count and then stop, or switch to a non-alcoholic drink. With one or two spectacular exceptions.

so for me it was a combination of personality, physiology, and the fact that the beer was rarely more than a secondary focus. The focus was friends, beer was a context I paid little attention.

Mrs Snags OTOH has an off switch. She gets just about tipsy fun, then her brain won't let her drink anymore. I find it fascinating, and somewhat admirable.

Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
But consider someone who enjoys a mild buzz. Left to his own devices, perhaps he'd have a couple of beers and stop. Add in a bit of peer pressure - he's got to stand his round, we've got time for one more before we go, let's get some snacks and another round, and so on, and he's been drinking steadily all evening and now the pubs are chucking out.

I am a Kiwi, and as Galilit alluded to above, we have, or at least we are constantly told we have, a 'drinking culture'. Despite this, the worst hangover I have ever had, by a country mile, was contracted in London - thanks to the system of 'rounds', which is not at all usual here. It means that a.) you are quite likely to lose track of how many drinks you have had, b.) there IS some sort of pressure to go on, if others still are, especially if your round is still to come, and c.) people who weigh about 50kg (me, at the time) are very, very disadvantaged by a system where everyone at the table has the same number of drinks in an evening. Why didn't you just stop? I hear someone say. Well, as Snags said, what you are actually doing is socialising, as best you can amongst the noise and smoke, and there is a drink at your elbow. It never empties. You don't really notice. But by god, you notice the next day.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
And peer pressure is the most ridiculous concept. It might explain why people start doing a drug, but it hardly explains why they would continue(in the absence of some positive feeling). I dislike with intensity the physical effects of alcohol, and I can assure you that no amount of peer pressure has made me want to take a drink since I started foregoing the "pleasure" over a decade ago.

Not ridiculous at all. You would not believe the amount of pressure put on Vietnamese men by other men to drink till drunk. Mr. Lamb has had a helluva time getting them to stop pushing beer etc. at him--he has one and stops. In the early days he almost got beat up for saying "no thank you". I can see how weaker personalities would fall to that amount of pressure, easily.

This is why, if you're at a Vietnamese wedding or party, you'll do well to leave the reception as soon as you're full. The young men will be out of control in an hour or so. And right now we're trying to sort out a case where one brother-in-law got loaded and shot the other one four times from the chest to the knees. (He lived, but the consequences are huge and affecting about fifty people in the extended family.) Just why, God?

Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
It may not feel good in the morning but often, in the moment, the feeling of drunkenness is quite pleasant.

I would say that being buzzed is pleasant. Being drunk is more ... dramatic and/or silly. But being puke drunk is nasty and scary.

I can't recall a single time where I actually intended to be so drunk as to be sick. Buzzed, sure, even drunk sometimes. But getting to the throwing up stage was always a case of "mismanagement".

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Galilit:

Of course I am also a New Zealander.

Ah ... so that's my reason!

Though pretty much all else you say. I don't think I've ever drunk to get drunk. I have drunk to have fun with friends, I have occasionally drunk to "forget about life for a while" ... either way there have been myriad times (often at clergy gigs!) when I have put myself beyond a safe limit, and too many times, increasingly long ago now thank God, when I have reached the room-spinning, body-sweating, never again ooops up come my stomach contents stage. I think, long ago, I probably drank myself to oblivion once or twice, though on one occasion I fear a nasty drug ingested unknowing may have been the catalyst for passing out: either way the result was nasty, and I really have only myself to blame.

I'm older sadder and happlier married these days. I know my triggers, tend to pull out before the alcohol creates its own vortex. Perhaps, too, my liver is more leathery: I hope that's not the reason. It's been a good many years since I created a hangover.

I never drank (what the hell is the past tense?) to get drunk. It happened as others said because the control of a drug lapsed. I make no excuses.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

Lamn Chopped wrote:

quote:
Not ridiculous at all. You would not believe the amount of pressure put on Vietnamese men by other men to drink till drunk. Mr. Lamb has had a helluva time getting them to stop pushing beer etc. at him--he has one and stops. In the early days he almost got beat up for saying "no thank you". I can see how weaker personalities would fall to that amount of pressure, easily.

I live in Korea, which has a similar drinking culture, especially centred around the workplace. A woman actually went all the way to the Supreme Court to defend her right to refuse to go out drinking and still keep her job. She won, but the actual practical effect of the ruling has likely been minimal.

So yes, I am aware of the cultural forces at work in some places. My dismissive comments about "peer pressure" were meant strictly in a western context.

Is there really anyone in the west who can say "I don't want to drink, but my career/social life/etc will be severely damaged if I don't"? Back in Canada, I worked for some pretty enthusiastic imbibers, but, even on company outtings, I was never subject to excessive cajoling in regards to alcohol.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:

And peer pressure is the most ridiculous concept. It might explain why people start doing a drug, but it hardly explains why they would continue(in the absence of some positive feeling).
Isn't the point that the combination matters? You're not going to be persuaded to drink, because you dislike it. But consider someone who enjoys a mild buzz. Left to his own devices, perhaps he'd have a couple of beers and stop. Add in a bit of peer pressure - he's got to stand his round, we've got time for one more before we go, let's get some snacks and another round, and so on, and he's been drinking steadily all evening and now the pubs are chucking out.

Ah, I dunno, maybe. But I'd still be pretty of skeptical of anyone who, while admitting that he liked drinking, claimed that he only did it to excess because of peer pressure. The fact that he enjoys it to begin with would, for me, be the most plausible explanation for his decision to keep doing it all night long.

And, of course, you could reverse the equation. Maybe being among drinkers gives him the opportunity to indulge to a degree that he really enjoys, but would be taboo if he were drinking alone or with a more moderate crowd.

Admittedly, I'm biased, because when it comes to alcohol, I've always been very either/or. Back in the day, if I got plastered out of my skull on a pub crawl, it was because I wanted to, not because anyone was making me.

[ 01. June 2014, 03:30: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
But I'd still be pretty of skeptical of anyone who, while admitting that he liked drinking, claimed that he only did it to excess because of peer pressure.

Well, the sickest I've ever been was at a New Year's party when I was 17. The culprit was a "fruit punch" which I think ended up being 1/3 rum, 1/3 vodka, 1/3 lemonade and a dash of fruit juice.

I like a drink, but I didn't like that drink. I drank it because I was 17 and at a party, and I was handed a drink by a girl I fancied. And, like anoesis, there have been plenty of times that I've been socializing with friends and had a couple more than I intended to, because I was caught up in the moment and not really paying attention.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

This is going to sound totally naïve, but how in the hell do people manage to drink so much without living in the toilet? If I did that with water or tea or something, I'd totally be dashing for the toilet every five minutes.

I suppose I could see it with spirits, but beer... ????? People must have kidneys of steel.

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

There's drinking and there's drinking. Alcohol has been part of life for me since I was very young, but I never saw drunkiness until I was in my teens. It surprised me. I enjoy a beer or 2. Having a glass just now actually. My now adult children had the same experience.

Alcoholism is a misuse. Among other ways of defining it. That said, when people say they avoid alcohol because of feelings related to control, I wonder about what quantities of drinks and about personality traits.

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :

I have been blessed (if that's the word) with a phobia of vomiting (emetophobia being the technical term). That has usually kept me within somewhat reasonable bounds (though in my college days, when I hadn't quite figured out how much is too much, not always). The basic rule is, when you start feeling good, stop drinking--if three drinks feels good, six will not feel twice as good. It's a lesson some people seem unable to learn.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
This is going to sound totally naïve, but how in the hell do people manage to drink so much without living in the toilet? If I did that with water or tea or something, I'd totally be dashing for the toilet every five minutes.

I suppose I could see it with spirits, but beer... ????? People must have kidneys of steel.

It maybe TMI but around the first litre and or two (beer, not anything stronger or you're cactus) nestles into place quite nicely. after that, yup, between five and ten minute excursions. Those breaks give you a chance to decide to break the cycle - go light or stop. They also give you a chance to stare at your swaying face in the mirror. By that time it's too late...

Which reminds me ... it's past five p.m.

Posted by EloiseA (# 18029) on :

I had a long talk recently with a family member who has been sober for a decade and he made some perceptive comments on the 'why' of continuing to drink.

For many years he had what he thought of as a pattern of mismanagement that later became a fluctuating compulsion. Sometimes there was no problem, sometimes he would go out with friends and assume they would eat later and then drink on an empty stomach, sometimes it would be a hot evening and he would drink more beer because he was thirsty and didn’t want to interrupt the buzz with water. No intention of getting drunk most of the time

What did bother him were the hidden motivations behind his drinking to excess because over time he saw a pattern emerge.

The first two or three drinks were pleasure, anticipating the buzz and then the lift of euphoria, the losing inhibitions and sense of fun and ‘life enhanced’.

The next few drinks were intended to prolong that initial euphoria, feeling a little lightheaded and bright-eyed. There would be a little blurriness around the edges but no sense of being drunk.

It would dawn on him that he couldn't recapture that first euphoria and that it was time to stop. His mood would begin to darken, the liveliness and generosity, sense of untroubled fellowship would recede. This brought on a sense of agitation and reluctance to stop -- he would think to himself that one more wouldn't do any harm.

Then things would change as he settled into drinking for the rest of the evening – the longing for oblivion would hit him at about the same time as feelings of anger or resentment or sadness would emerge out of nowhere. He would think about old grievances, would want to listen to sentimental music, would remember rejections and failures. Often another person in the group would be in the same headspace and they would bond, try to shake off the melancholy and resentment, the feelings of self-pity, by ‘drinking to forget’.

This was the pattern for a long time and only after he stopped drinking did he do some research and understand that while alcohol (like caffeine or sugar) works initially as a stimulant and then depletes energies, it is a major depressant.

He also said that the anxiety and depression of the next day was even worse than the headache, even if he hadn’t, as far as he knew, done anything ‘wrong’ or offended anyone. The only way to ease the fidgeting and misery was to drink again at some point the next day or evening, just a few drinks to chase away the black mood.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Alcoholism is a misuse. Among other ways of defining it. That said, when people say they avoid alcohol because of feelings related to control, I wonder about what quantities of drinks and about personality traits.

Interesting, because my secondary reason for avoiding alcohol is definitely not wanting to be out of control. The primary reason is that my family is genetically predisposed to alcoholism and other addictions (we're American Indian), and I don't want to die young.

Which is why I've never had more than enough to feel a slight buzz, and we don't keep it in the house. Except a tiny bottle if Mr. Lamb needs to give someone Communion.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
This is going to sound totally naïve, but how in the hell do people manage to drink so much without living in the toilet? If I did that with water or tea or something, I'd totally be dashing for the toilet every five minutes.

Want some TMI?

Mr Boogs cares for a bloke who can't move from the neck down, he's 26 and broke his spine in a snowboarding accident. Occasionally he still likes to go out for a pint (or eight) with the lads. Mr Boogs says you can tell he's had enough when the wee in the bag runs clear! (and, yes, it needs emptying a lot!)

Posted by Yonatan (# 11091) on :

When I was at university and living at the Anglican Chaplaincy, I was helping a friend who was praying to the Porcelain God. He became slightly melodramatic, held his arms out wide and said in all seriousness "Eli Eli lama sabachthani!". This caused much amusement - but was very distracting when the prayer came up in chapel.

Posted by Candide (# 15755) on :

Locally at least, we see a lot of drinking to justify acting like a complete moron.

I think it is an urge for some, who come from a culture that puts considerable social restraints on people. They apparently want the opportunity to pee in public, show off various indiscreet body parts, and shout and scream loudly at other people.
(In short, acting just one step short of flinging poo at each other).

The next day, simply saying "I was drunk" justifies this behaviour. They are allowed to break society's norms, by putting themselves in a position where the taboos aren't really taboo anymore.

(On a side note - there's been a few interesting cases here, where people simply have behaved as if drunk - slurred speech, poor balance, etc. - to commit acts of vandalism. After which the police have found only low levels of alcohol in their blood, and no relevant illnesses).

Posted by mrs whibley (# 4798) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chocoholic:
In my case it's cos sometimes I fancy a gin, or glass of wine, much like I may fancy a curry or some chocolate.
But the alcohol in the nice tasting drinks lowers my willpower and so it's easy to have a second (or third) which doesn't happen as much with non alcoholic things, although I can be just as bad with biscuits, which don't cause a hangover.

This! But somehow the biscuit thing has diminished with age, as has my tolerance for chocolate. The combination of alcohol and good company, however, is problematic. I haven't actually vomited for over a decade though!

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Signaller:
I am teetotal, always have been. I tell people it's because I don't like the taste. Really, I can't stand the thought of not being in control of myself. What I might find myself saying or doing, and the potential consequences, scares me.

Watching the effects drink has on other people has only ever confirmed this feeling. So no, I can't understand why anyone should want to get drunk.

I am very glad that I have never needed it as a prop.

I'm like this too, and I have to say, viewed from the outside drinking is certainly one of the most incomprehensible of human activities. I have to take people's word for it that there's an aspect of it that's very pleasurable, but if you haven't tried it, there's absolutely nothing about watching people drink that would make you want to try it.

This is so true for me that I'm very late (like nearly age 50) having it dawn on me some of the reasons why people think it's a good idea. The other day I was involved in a panel discussion about the positives and negatives of using social media, and I made the point that for a person like me with very mild social anxiety, it can be easy to approach and make a brief comment to someone you don't know but whose work you admire, on Twitter, say, who you'd never approach if you were at a cocktail party with them IRL. I painted a thumbnail sketch of my own misery at such events, wandering around trailing in the wake of people I already know hoping I won't have to speak to anyone new, and the panel moderator interrupted jokily, "You need to drink more!"

I said, "I don't drink at all, that's probably the problem!" and only then did it quite belatedly occur to me that they're called cocktail parties for a reason: it's a peculiar kind of social interaction that most(?) people can't manage (or wouldn't want to) unless they're slightly inebriated.

Posted by iamchristianhearmeroar (# 15483) on :

Why drink to get drunk? Others have already mentioned the reason I would give - because it's fun, especially amongst friends or other safe company.

Have I ever drunk deliberately to get drunk to the point of vomiting? No, and I have no idea why anyone would. (It has been a consequence for me of extreme over-indulgence on occasion, but not for ages).

Have I ever drunk deliberately to get drunk on my own? No, I don't think that I have. That's probably using alcohol as something quite specific: a mental cosh, a means to forget, a self-destruct button.

For me, the pleasure lies in drinking with friends and, at times (although nowhere near as frequently as we used to), consciously drinking enough to make ourselves drunk. It's fun, you loosen up, you laugh more, it becomes more acceptable to do childish things - speak in silly voices, pull faces - that for some reason society frowns on in sober adults.

It has, of course, a shadow side, and not only in one's physical and psychological pain the next morning, but in the kind of behaviour that an excess of alcohol can bring out in otherwise sane, rational people. And yes, "been there, done that" but again not for a long time. But I'm not sure that was the topic of the OP...

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

When you live with an alcoholic partner, it is easy to completely abstain from drinking. The smell and taste of liquor makes me retch, but I find it is embarrassing to refuse the offer of a drink on a social occasion. People just don't understand that some of us hate the stuff, but often no alternative drink is available. I guess my partner started as a social drinker, but now he can't go any day without copious amounts of alcohol and there is nothing I can do or say to change his behaviour.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Why? This is my biggest question, why get drunk?

Well, it's like this. I go out with friends and have a nice Margarita or some such mixed drink (no wine, as it gives me an instant headache.) Immediately, I get a nice warm fuzzy feeling. All those about me are beautiful and amusing and I just want to embrace every last person including the charming strangers who just walked through the door.

I want that feeling to continue, so I have another. After two, I've lost all cautionary reason while at the same time, discovered a talent for comedy unrivaled by the best comics in the business. Why in the world would anyone want to leave such a heavenly spot on the planet where we are all one with the universe and morning may never come?

I've never been sick either that night or the next day, even after 7 or 8 drinks, just a slight shortness of breath which is probably low oxygen saturation. It does cause lots of trip to the loo but I get to chat with all my new friends along the way. I haven't done this for years and now I'm wondering why not.

Silent Acolyte, I want to party with you, girl.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
it's a peculiar kind of social interaction that most(?) people can't manage (or wouldn't want to) unless they're slightly inebriated.

It was useful for us the other day.

Mr Boogs step sister has been ignoring us for twelve years, since Mr Boogs got back in touch with his Dad after too many years. They were both children when the split happened and she had stayed with 'Dad'. She thought it was all too little too late when Mr Boogs found him again.

It was at an evening meal after his Dad's funeral last week that both Mr Boogs and his step sister had far too much to drink. All their emotions poured out to each other and they had a huge reconciliation. All is much better now.

I don't think either would have opened up without the drink.

[ 01. June 2014, 14:10: Message edited by: Boogie ]

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

Why get drunk? It's fun. I'm old school: I work hard and I play hard. Alcohol is a way to relax, socialise with my friends, and help forget problems.

In the words of Homer Simpson "To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems".

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
my secondary reason for avoiding alcohol is definitely not wanting to be out of control.

This is my primary reason. I drink, but I'm very very careful.

I have been tempted a couple of times to give up altogether by the inmates I meet.

The number of people who are in jail for offences caused, indirectly, by alcohol here is huge. And that proportion rises steeply in cases of murder, torture, and so on, often for minor or even imagined slights.

I don't believe for a moment that I'm fundamentally different to people who, under the influence, have done unspeakable things and not been able to stop.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
My wife of 10 years told me she wanted a divorce.

The two times in my life I reached this point it was something similar-- I wanted a legal version of novocaine.

The second time I was so chemically stupid that I was grateful for the vomit reflex-- if I hadn't barfed, I had enough in my system to kill me.

Posted by lapsed heathen (# 4403) on :

Theirs also a reset button thig. You sometimes feel so lost, angry, hopeless, out of rope that short of suicide getting completely plastered achieves the same end. Oblivion. Next day things are never as bad as the seemed before. Of course that's in comparison to a hangover so it's a reminder that all things are relative.
I never understood the macho drinking or the bragging about it but theirs an age when impressing friends is about going further, faster, closer to the edge, drinking is easy and can be done on some spare cash, it becomes a 'thing' for a few years. Oddly once your good at it the fun goes out of it.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

I've been drunk a few times in former years, but I wouldn't describe it as a pleasant feeling over and above other feelings of pleasantness .
Having a glass or a can in the evening to take the edge of an arduous day is the way I use alcohol these days.

The binge drinking culture baffles me somewhat . Self-destructive behaviour seems to have found new expression in recent decades . Lack of wars and an unrelenting barrage of health advice ? These may be a couple of reasons . I'm sure it is more complex than this, if a simplistic solution existed it would have been found by now.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The binge drinking culture baffles me somewhat . Self-destructive behaviour seems to have found new expression in recent decades . Lack of wars and an unrelenting barrage of health advice ? These may be a couple of reasons . I'm sure it is more complex than this, if a simplistic solution existed it would have been found by now.

And yet. Binge drinking was what brought on, via (over)reaction, the dreadful Prohibition era in the United States. Binge drinking was what made the British government limit alcohol content to 40% (80 proof) around the time of the Great War. It's hardly a new problem.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Why? This is my biggest question, why get drunk?

Well, it's like this. I go out with friends and have a nice Margarita or some such mixed drink (no wine, as it gives me an instant headache.) Immediately, I get a nice warm fuzzy feeling. All those about me are beautiful and amusing and I just want to embrace every last person including the charming strangers who just walked through the door.

I want that feeling to continue, so I have another. After two, I've lost all cautionary reason while at the same time, discovered a talent for comedy unrivaled by the best comics in the business. Why in the world would anyone want to leave such a heavenly spot on the planet where we are all one with the universe and morning may never come?

this! all of this. Twilight described my particular dysfunction perfectly.

except: 1) wine doesn't give me a headache. it makes me beautiful and glamorous and fucking hilarious - just ask me.

2) hangovers. oh yeah, I get 'em. I get 'em real big. I'm a complete sissy about them, too.

My problem is, I'm a lightweight with an abrupt tipping point. I don't gradually go from slightly fuzzy to room spinning. I can be charming and funny and chatty and silly and risk taking - but basically okay - and then BOOM - one more sip and I'm in the fetal position on the floor. That point can be anywhere from 3 drinks to six, depends on probably things like sleep deprivation and stress and what I've been eating.

I HATE being drunk. I try really hard not to hit that tipping point, so I tend to err on the sober side to be safe.

Because of my basic extroverted, lack-of-shame, spotlight diva self, the stories of my antics while under the influence go way back. It's embarrassing. highly amusing, but also embarrassing. So I try to really take it slow so I'm not feeling the need to apologize to the world the next day.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
it makes me beautiful and glamorous and fucking hilarious - just ask me.

In your case I'll bet it's true. Please meet me and Silent Acolyte at happy hour.

Posted by The Rhythm Methodist (# 17064) on :

iamchristianhearmeroar wrote:

quote:
Why drink to get drunk? Others have already mentioned the reason I would give - because it's fun, especially amongst friends or other safe company.

Have I ever drunk deliberately to get drunk to the point of vomiting? No, and I have no idea why anyone would.

I suspect many people who casually get drunk, do so from a combination of supressed inhibitions and impaired judgment - with perhaps the specific situation they find themselves in playing a role.

Personally, I have never experienced drinking socially in the delightful manner you go on to describe. Nor can I ever recall vomiting due to drinking too much....though I spent many years vomiting - routinely and relentlessly - whenever I hadn't imbibed enough alcohol to keep me 'stable'. Ultimately, that's one of the issues with a drink problem - one has to treat the symptoms of alcoholism with alcohol, or suffer the consequences.

I retired from active alcoholism many years ago, but - if I'm honest - I still struggle to understand how people can enjoy a couple of drinks and then stop....although I'm assured that is normal. In my drinking days, I would have no more contemplated that, than I would have considered going to bed with a woman - and then leaving after the foreplay. I guess it comes down to how we see the purpose of alcohol. I never once touched it with any other intention than to get drunk, and yet others successfully use it as an enhancement to social interaction. My own social interactions have been greatly improved by its absence: attested to by the fact that in the last twenty five years, I've only been to prison for chaplaincy duties!

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The binge drinking culture baffles me somewhat . Self-destructive behaviour seems to have found new expression in recent decades . Lack of wars and an unrelenting barrage of health advice ? These may be a couple of reasons . I'm sure it is more complex than this, if a simplistic solution existed it would have been found by now.
And yet. Binge drinking was what brought on, via (over)reaction, the dreadful Prohibition era in the United States. Binge drinking was what made the British government limit alcohol content to 40% (80 proof) around the time of the Great War. It's hardly a new problem.

Oh we know in the UK that binge drinking was a known problem back in 1751.

Jengie

Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :

Silly question in the vain of the Op.

Do we know what the culture/language around drink was back then?
In particular I guess was there the culture like the Bill Bailey sketch. Or was it more drinking to forget, or out of boredom, stereotypical addiction.
I've always had the impression of the newly paid husbands going "I'll just have one, then this time I'll head home" rather than considering the money spent a badge of pride or planning on getting plastered. But I'm not sure if that just comes from an inability to imagine people being that neglectful on purpose.

(To be honest I'm not really sure what it is now, in any subset of community)

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

I think you're right, Jay-Emm. I can't imagine anyone setting out with the intention of spending the family's entire pay check on drink.

I think that many people, even after only one drink, lose all the sincere resolve they had twenty minutes ago and start playing the "just one more," game with themselves. If I, who have no biological or social "problem," with alcohol can fall into that pattern once every few years then how much harder for those who do.

Unlike some other temptations, food or gambling, we'll say, this particular vice impairs the very brain we need to be using to resist the urge.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

quote:
it makes me beautiful and glamorous and fucking hilarious - just ask me.
In your case I'll bet it's true. Please meet me and Silent Acolyte at happy hour.

now THAT would be a party! If we didn't all three kill each other in the first ten minutes we'd take over the world.

or maybe get arrested.

I'm down!

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
some of us are happy chatty euphoric drunks, who after the back-slapping, hale-fellow-well-met camaraderie of community intoxication settle down to sleep the load off, waking up somewhat subdued the next morning.

Most of the people who think they are the life of the party while drunk are only the life of the party to other people who are also drunk.

I drink, but I pace myself. And so I've often watched parties go from really enjoyable when people are sober or moderately intoxicated, to not very enjoyable as more and more people get to the point where everything they do is uproariously funny and should be laughed at as loudly as possible. I'm quite sure they're happy, but as a person standing nearby who's working to ensure I stay under the blood alcohol limit, being in the company of these happy, chatty euphoric drunks starts becoming a chore.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Also, one of the basic problems is that people don't wait for one drink to take effect before they start on the next one.

It's no different to all the tips we get about eating slowly, or pausing before dessert because then it might turn out you don't need/want dessert.

If you're feeling pleasantly buzzed, then it's time to stop for a while because there's a very good chance there's some more consumed alcohol heading for your bloodstream right then and there. Just because one sip happens to coincide with when you suddenly feel you've gone too far, doesn't mean that sip had anything to do with how you're currently feeling. It's the sips 10 or 15 minutes ago, maybe earlier, that are doing the trick.

It takes roughly an hour for your body to process a single standard drink, so you don't need to 'top up' that drink until the hour has passed. Wear a watch. I'm not talking about using a stopwatch and a detailed log, but have an idea of when you started drinking and what the time is now. One can stay near the pleasant buzz range by having 1-2 drinks in the first hour, and then only 1 an hour after that.

Which isn't that hard to do if you're doing something besides drinking. The biggest problem with English-speaking drinking culture is that we've turned drinking alcohol into an event in its own right, not something that accompanies other activities (like a meal).

My drinking motto? If I'm having a good time, I'd like to remember it.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

I like getting blotto with my friends every now and then, with Easter, Christmas, and New Years Eve being the primest times in my opinion. And I can't see why that's so bad.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Also, one of the basic problems is that people don't wait for one drink to take effect before they start on the next one.

It's no different to all the tips we get about eating slowly, or pausing before dessert because then it might turn out you don't need/want dessert[snip]
...
My drinking motto? If I'm having a good time, I'd like to remember it.

Precisely.

I read somewhere that part of the problem is the more you drink, the less you actually feel the effects-- the result being that people feel drunker than they are at the outset of drinking, and feel more sober than they are when far down the drinking road. This accounts for the people who stagger toward their car mumbling "I am ok, I can do it..."

The time I got stupid drunk I deliberately drank in such a way that I would not feel the buzz reduce in the usual time. I also remember panicking because I seemed to continue getting drunker after I stopped drinking-- chugging water didn't seem to help. I still had enough booze in my stomach to keep intoxicating me.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I like getting blotto with my friends every now and then, with Easter, Christmas, and New Years Eve being the primest times in my opinion. And I can't see why that's so bad.

The original question on the thread is: why is it so GOOD?

I can't see it. Honestly.

Not when people get so drunk that other people have to tell them what it was they actually did while drunk. Is 'getting blotto' up at that level?

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

Because getting together with friends to drink and eat is fun. Nothing mysterious about it. I also think roast dinner and games of cribbage are appropriate ways to keep the Lord's Day.

I don't think kicking a ball around an overheated lawn is all that much fun, but the fact that some people like playing football isn't all a huge mystery to me.

[ 02. June 2014, 04:04: Message edited by: Zach82 ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Getting together with friends to eat and drink most certainly is fun. I do it.

But 'eating and drinking' is not the same as getting blotto.

I had a birthday party/lunch with extended family yesterday (mostly my brother-in-law's family). It was awesome. Home-cooked Thai food. Lots of conversation. 2 glasses of wine. No-one got plastered. THAT'S eating and drinking. That isn't what the thread is talking about.

[ 02. June 2014, 04:31: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Oh we know in the UK that binge drinking was a known problem back in 1751.

Christopher Cook's book, Alcohol Addiction and Christian Ethics gives a decent brief history of alcohol abuse through the ages, with a recent focus on UK stats and studies before it goes on to discuss the ethics.

Posted by Galilit (# 16470) on :

That book would be where you got your theology from, then??! Sounds like it should be "required reading"!

By the way, count me in on that party!

Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Wear a watch. I'm not talking about using a stopwatch and a detailed log, but have an idea of when you started drinking and what the time is now. One can stay near the pleasant buzz range by having 1-2 drinks in the first hour, and then only 1 an hour after that.

For social drinking, in particular among youngsters, it is more important to learn the ancient art of "nursing your drink". Slowing down the drinking itself has two distinct advantages. First, physiologically it means that there is no alcohol concentration spike that would lead to a sudden loss of control. Second, your peers will be mostly checking whether you have a drink in hand / in front of you, they are less likely to keep track of how many you have poured into yourself. Knocking back a pint and then waiting about an hour is physiologically less advantageous and socially more awkward.

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Which isn't that hard to do if you're doing something besides drinking. The biggest problem with English-speaking drinking culture is that we've turned drinking alcohol into an event in its own right, not something that accompanies other activities (like a meal).

There's nothing specifically English about that, I certainly spend much of my late teenage and early adulthood years drinking alcohol on weekends with my peers for "fun" - in Germany. It's a social thing, an obvious extension of an adult activity to a proving ground for adulthood.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
For social drinking, in particular among youngsters, it is more important to learn the ancient art of "nursing your drink". Slowing down the drinking itself has two distinct advantages. First, physiologically it means that there is no alcohol concentration spike that would lead to a sudden loss of control. Second, your peers will be mostly checking whether you have a drink in hand / in front of you, they are less likely to keep track of how many you have poured into yourself. Knocking back a pint and then waiting about an hour is physiologically less advantageous and socially more awkward.

Yes, this is very true, and is really what I meant. I wasn't envisioning simply swigging the drink down fast and then waiting for ages. I do try and drink fairly slowly - and that's what conversation is good for. The checking the watch only happens when I'm thinking about getting the next one.

Quite frequently I'll be idly fiddling with an empty glass for a while before even thinking about refilling it, enjoying the glow of the last beverage. And my typical pattern after the first 2 alcoholic drinks is to alternate with non-alcoholic ones.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

I think those who will drink the weeks wages fall in another category. I say this having a Great Grandfather who was one (the tale is told of my Grandfather having to get my Grandfathers wages off him before he had a drink) and also a former boyfriend who is one. They seem to be able to drink or not drink, but actual control of the amount is not possible.

As these examples shows it is not a phenomena of a particular age but rather it is a form of alcoholism. This is not true of all alcoholics, but it does appear to be true of some.

Jengie

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
For social drinking, in particular among youngsters, it is more important to learn the ancient art of "nursing your drink". Slowing down the drinking itself has two distinct advantages. <and the rest...>

Whence comes the laudable style of taking one's bourbon straight-up with water back.

Further, there is a disturbing modern tendency to provision glasses for martinis and Manhattans of positively oceanic capacity. Either the contents lose the cold before the drink is consumed or else the liquor is too quickly bolted down.

Posted by burlingtontiger (# 18069) on :

As someone else pointed out, drinking heavily is a feature of British society - and that is regardless of social class. The ability to drink heavily is worn like a badge of honour.

In my twenties I would drink with friends till 3 a.m. a couple of nights a week and still be on the 7.30 train to work with no real problems. In my thirties I would drink a bottle of wine 4-6 nights a week with no obvious problems.

Now, at 43, I dislike being drunk. I don't like the feeling, I don't like the lethargy, I don't sleep well after drinking. It makes me eat far too much - usually something spicy or cheesy that gives me heartburn. I get a nervous 'butterflies in the stomach' feeling throughout the next day. I am going off it rapidly and only occasionally drink at home now. I am down to an afternoon in the pub every 4 or 5 weeks, with a friend, and I down pint after pint of water afterwards to counter the effects. I have also lost 6.5 stone in weight, so that is a real bonus.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I think physiologically I must be weird, then. I don't feel any glow or effect from alcohol (bar facial flushing, which only takes half a glass or less) until I'm right on the edge of having had too much. When I drink my single glass, or even two, I'm doing it for flavor and nothing else. Because nothing else happens.

(thoughtful) I wonder if this accounts for the family alcoholism?

[ 02. June 2014, 14:02: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Galilit:
By the way, count me in on that party!

Absolutely!

Orfeo's not invited. [Razz]

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Aye, the conversations with Ralph down the Great White Telephone are the problem I have. Don't mind the feeling a bit pissed sensation, but the nausea, whether it results in a puking session or not, I can totally live without.

I drink beer because I like beer. I too don't understand getting arseholed as an aim, because for me steamed = feeling rather sick. More an occupational hazard.

[ 02. June 2014, 14:47: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I too don't understand getting arseholed as an aim,

This phraseology evidently plays differently in different places.

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :

Twilight:

quote:
Orfeo's not invited.

That's OK, he can come to my party. Especially if he brings some Thai food. [Cool]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Twilight:
quote:
Orfeo's not invited.
That's OK, he can come to my party. Especially if he brings some Thai food.

Or mine, because he won't have to be drunk to enjoy it.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Aye, the conversations with Ralph down the Great White Telephone are the problem I have. Don't mind the feeling a bit pissed sensation, but the nausea, whether it results in a puking session or not, I can totally live without.

I drink beer because I like beer. I too don't understand getting arseholed as an aim, because for me steamed = feeling rather sick. More an occupational hazard.

Yeah , I too was reflecting on the new vocabulary I am aquiring.
The nausea you describe is among the first symptoms of mild alchohol poisoning. As orfeo said, if one chilled out and waited a bit between each drink, this is one if the signs one should cool it. Because, poison.

Your central nervous system might enjoy the ride for a bit,but when you pound your system with alcohol, the rest of you body HATES you. Every nasty thing refined sugar does to your body happens with alcohol abuse, because alcohol is very, very processed sugar-- weight gain, cellular compromise (as in, water gets sucked out of you cells to compensate for the level of crap you just put in your system), blood sugar fluxuation, and of course, your liver really, really hates you. Binge drinking alone can do enough damage to the skin to make a 25 year old man look 50.

Posted by moron (# 206) on :

Unsurprisingly Vincent Furnier sums it up well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq4j1LtCdww&feature=kp

And where is Frank Zappa when you need him?

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Party Invitations; lovely idea but not exactly serious discussion. A little more Purgatorial, please.

Barnabas62
Purgatory Host

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Aye, the conversations with Ralph down the Great White Telephone are the problem I have. Don't mind the feeling a bit pissed sensation, but the nausea, whether it results in a puking session or not, I can totally live without.

I drink beer because I like beer. I too don't understand getting arseholed as an aim, because for me steamed = feeling rather sick. More an occupational hazard.
Yeah , I too was reflecting on the new vocabulary I am aquiring.
The nausea you describe is among the first symptoms of mild alchohol poisoning. As orfeo said, if one chilled out and waited a bit between each drink, this is one if the signs one should cool it. Because, poison.

Your central nervous system might enjoy the ride for a bit,but when you pound your system with alcohol, the rest of you body HATES you. Every nasty thing refined sugar does to your body happens with alcohol abuse, because alcohol is very, very processed sugar-- weight gain, cellular compromise (as in, water gets sucked out of you cells to compensate for the level of crap you just put in your system), blood sugar fluxuation, and of course, your liver really, really hates you. Binge drinking alone can do enough damage to the skin to make a 25 year old man look 50.

Alas, I don't think I process alcohol well; it may be genetic - the Mother Backslider can't drink more than half a glass of wine before she starts getting flushed. I get nauseous well before I get what many people call drunk; I've been sick many times, but never blacked out, never forgotten what I was doing, danced on tables, been unable to walk...

As a side issue, I think in the UK at any rate we have more slang terms for being drunk than anything else. I've barely started working my way through them...

[ 02. June 2014, 20:07: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

Amateurs.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Response to B62
Actually, I was attempting to make a point, though perhaps too subtlety.
One should not need, or expect, alcohol at a gathering to enjoy it. I have been to very similar gatherings with, and without, alcohol. And the perceptions, even before drinking commenced, were marked different.
If your friends are not tolerable sober, get new ones.

[ 02. June 2014, 20:28: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's hardly a new problem.
Oh we know in the UK that binge drinking was a known problem back in 1751.

Indeed , not a new problem . It's what gave Wesley his mission .

Maybe I should have said it's a recurring problem . People in their 20's and 30s with alcohol related liver damage probably isn't a new problem either, but the number now, and in the future, occupying NHS beds might well prove to be.

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

I haven't been truly drunk for years; that was when I was still learning my limits by trial and error. Of course, there was that one particular night when I was in college which meant I haven't been able to face a Screwdriver in over 30 years...

On the whole, though, I like a little wine or booze because it relaxes me. It allows me to stop being such a taciturn wallflower. I don't need a lot--just enough to loosen up the social graces. Then I can talk to people comfortably, and I usually find we both enjoy it--especially since I only need one drink to put me in that "happy place".

Another pleasant side effect is that things stop hurting. You don't reach 55 in my family without a certain amount of arthritis. It doesn't make the pain go away, but it allows one to focus on something else. I've always suspected that in the absence of other effective pain relievers, a goodly portion of our 19th century forbears were using drink (or laudanum) as an analgesic.

Even so, apart from vacation or the odd party I tend to drink on a very regular schedule--one martini after work on Friday, and a bottle of wine split with my partner with dinner on Saturday.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
One should not need, or expect, alcohol at a gathering to enjoy it. I have been to very similar gatherings with, and without, alcohol. And the perceptions, even before drinking commenced, were marked different.
If your friends are not tolerable sober, get new ones.

Of course, but don't make the mistake of thinking that those of us who understand the pleasurable side of getting wasted occasionally have never had any sober fun. I think I've had a total of three drinks, each one at separate times, since I quit smoking 14 years ago. I knew the first thing I would do once the silliness began was bum a cigarette from someone.

I come from tee-totaling Methodist/Presbyterians and to this day it doesn't occur to me to have alcohol at family gatherings. Wine is a maudlin tear jerker for me so, no matter how pretty it looks in my crystal glasses, we don't serve it.

It's interesting to me that I have relatives on my Catholic husband's side, who are fond of saying smugly, "We don't drink," who actually have wine or beer almost every day.

I guess what they mean is, "We don't drink to excess," or to my way of thinking have never enjoyed the fun of a real pub crawl with a bunch of crazy friends. For all their superiority, I think my liver is probably healthier.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

It was very fascinating once being at a wedding where a sizable number of guests didn't drink (and it was known beforehand that this was the case).

There was a fair amount of Maison, a very nice non-alcoholic sparkling grape juice which you used to be able to get, not sure if it still exists (and probably just an Australian brand anyway).

Which the guests who DID drink also started having.

I can only speculate as to why. Did they feel pressure not to drink? There was plenty of wine available. Or was it that the usual pressure to drink was absent, and that they realised they had the choice to switch?

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Might depend upon the known reason(s) for abstaining--at my wedding we had one glass of champagne only, for a toast, as over half our guests were Vietnamese Tin Lanh (sort of extra-Baptist) and we (non-VTL folk) didn't want to freak them out. They in turn pretended not to see the champagne bottles, and the pastor, my brother-in-law, did the toast (in white grape juice). It was nice to see everybody bending over backward to make everyone else comfortable.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Alas, I don't think I process alcohol well; it may be genetic - the Mother Backslider can't drink more than half a glass of wine before she starts getting flushed. I get nauseous well before I get what many people call drunk; I've been sick many times, but never blacked out, never forgotten what I was doing, danced on tables, been unable to walk...

Alas, nothing; your body is helping you out.

C.S Lewis had a litte thing he wrote about how the body goes out of its way to warn us about bad habits--our first sip of alcohol is foul, our first hit of a cigarette sends us into a coughing fit. We have to argue with out bodies for a while before it submits to binge drinking.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

It can be very interesting if you aren't drinking, watching the behaviour and listening to the words of those who do.

I don't drink alcohol now. Didn't have a problem with it and enjoyed the occasional glass: I've just lost the taste and find it brings on a migraine at high speed anyway. I'm also not convinced that it's the best witness for a believer -- it can lead to people saying and doing stuff, that in the cold light of day they will realise is unhelpful and inappropriate.

Posted by Gareth (# 2494) on :

What I don't understand is the concept of preloading.

Back in my day we arrived at the pub or club sober, and then finished off with scotch back home if we felt we needed more to drink. At least then we knew we'd get home...

Three of the four deaths in the rivers in York this year were young people on a night out...

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by moron:

And where is Frank Zappa when you need him?

*Ahem*

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

Pre-loading is just a combination of the mindset that says "It wasn't a good night if I remember it" and the cost of alcohol in pubs/clubs. Way cheaper to get through some cheap cans/wine/spirit before going out so you don't "need" to drink as much at your chosen venue.

Nothing new, either; people used to do it 25 years ago when I was at university, and doubtless before that. It doesn't chime with why I go for a drink, but I understand the logic, if not the practice.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

I think pre-loading may also reflect a fear of engaging with a crowd without some ingestion of Dutch courage aforethought

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :

Sorry, Barnabas. Like lilbuddha, I was trying to make the point that you don't *have* to have alcohol to enjoy a party.

Gareth said:

quote:
Three of the four deaths in the rivers in York this year were young people on a night out...

I'm from York as well and was thinking of these deaths. Especially Megan Roberts, who was with friends who were apparently too drunk themselves to notice that she wasn't with them any more after they crossed Lendal Bridge. Her family reported her missing several days afterwards.

And I'd have said Lendal Bridge was one of the safest to walk across in York. I find it much easier to understand how Ben Clarkson fell into the Foss.

[Votive]

Posted by Gareth (# 2494) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
I'm from York as well and was thinking of these deaths. Especially Megan Roberts, who was with friends who were apparently too drunk themselves to notice that she wasn't with them any more after they crossed Lendal Bridge. Her family reported her missing several days afterwards.

And I'd have said Lendal Bridge was one of the safest to walk across in York. I find it much easier to understand how Ben Clarkson fell into the Foss.

Not forgetting Tyler Pearson - who's death was shocking for completely different reasons.

I take my boat on rivers all over England, and the Ouse here is one that demands more respect than most.

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :

No, not forgetting Tyler either; I'm sure he wouldn't have tried to swim the Ouse if he'd been sober. [Votive]

Posted by moron (# 206) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Amateurs.

Exactly. Who are those guys?

Churchill once said he took more out of alcohol than it took out of him and who could argue.

But I recently watched Michael Alpert's (Ram Dass) _Fierce Grace_ which was filmed after he was 'stroked'.

He told the story of first meeting the Maharaji who was able to tell him about his recent past - knowing things no human would be likely to know. Anyway, Ram gave the guy LSD and he was unaffected and eventually told Ram he didn't need to bother with drugs because "it's in you".

I take some comfort from that statement.

http://www.ramdass.org/ram-dass-gives-maharaji-the-yogi-medicine/

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

To be honest, I don't think people in college drink the same way or drink for the same reasons as those of us who have reached "a certain age".

When you are young and you think you are invincible, you do stupid things. If you do stupid things in cars, you may die. If you do stupid things with alcohol, you may die. All of those deaths are tragic, and sometimes it is only the grace of God that allows someone else to live and grow out of that phase.

As someone who will drink at a party from time to time but not always, I find myself wondering who all these out-of-control people are, though. Not to say there aren't one or two who might push the boundaries, but I must be attending a very dull set of parties. I see it used--and sometimes use it myself--as a social lubricant, but I very rarely see anyone over 30 say anything that they would be embarrassed about on the next day.

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

The thing is, some people do make relatively coherent drunks.

Back when I used to tie one on in style, I could often be absolutely [shit-faced][rat-arsed][wankered][bladdered][hammered][loaded][out of my skull]* and yet (by and large) still hold lucid conversations, not get too unnecessary, and absolutely definitely without fail find my way home safely.

Most friends would know that I was a bit merry, but have no idea that shortly after getting home I'd be hurling for England and was actually utterly, utterly bolloxed**.

*Just adding to the slang collection for those who need a few more

**Genuinely, as evidenced by countless conversations with sober and tipsy friends, and blagging it mercilessly with my parents when much younger. Not just the "Aha, nobody knows just how pissed I am" that the drunk mind goes through. I can't do it quite so effectively these days, as the last time I got a wee bit carried away demonstrated.

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :

quote:
Originally posted by moron:

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Amateurs.
Exactly. Who are those guys?

Some of us are retired professionals.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
some of us are happy chatty euphoric drunks, who after the back-slapping, hale-fellow-well-met camaraderie of community intoxication settle down to sleep the load off, waking up somewhat subdued the next morning.
Most of the people who think they are the life of the party while drunk are only the life of the party to other people who are also drunk.

Keenly observed, but you've turned my "camaraderie of community intoxication" to a boorish "life of the party."

quote:
I drink, but I pace myself. And so I've often watched parties go from really enjoyable when people are sober or moderately intoxicated, to not very enjoyable as more and more people get to the point where everything they do is uproariously funny and should be laughed at as loudly as possible. I'm quite sure they're happy,...

No doubt there is some Principal of Proximately of Intoxication. Teetotalers rarely can have fun with falling down drunks, and vice verse. But, a party needn't be sundered along such a bright line. When folk don't share a fellow feeling, whether too distantly under-intoxicated or over-intoxicated, neither is likely to be fully comfortable.

quote:
...but as a person standing nearby who's working to ensure I stay under the blood alcohol limit, being in the company of these happy, chatty euphoric drunks starts becoming a chore.

Indeed, and you'd lighten your mood and ours by moving along. Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable in the kitchen, while me and my friends are being mutually witty and charming out on the porch.

I don't usually share the company of enthusiastic hockey fans, unless I have to. So, I move along to be out of ear shot of the television.

Posted by BessHiggs (# 15176) on :

I could write pages and pages about this topic...but I won't cause I'm fixin to meet some frineds for drinks in a little bit.

In my experience, most folks who end up sick as dogs the next morning don't set out to get that hammered. A couple of beers turns into many beers, then someone pulls out a bottle or a mason jar and a shot seems like a good idea, and two or three more seem like an even better idea and then they're sitting in the safety chair (low to the ground with arms, up against a convenient wall for extra support), having been deprived of their car keys. Having done my fair share of time in the safety chair myself, I will say that I always have a little moment of clarity (far too late) during which I realize that I am going to feel like the crap in the morning, but by then, any common sense I may have had has gone the way of the dodo.

For myself, I find the antics of most tipsy/drunk people highly entertaining when I'm sober. (I guess that's a good thing in my profession.) I enjoy watching people have fun...

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
No doubt there is some Principal of Proximately of Intoxication. Teetotalers rarely can have fun with falling down drunks, and vice verse. But, a party needn't be sundered along such a bright line. When folk don't share a fellow feeling, whether too distantly under-intoxicated or over-intoxicated, neither is likely to be fully comfortable.
quote:
...but as a person standing nearby who's working to ensure I stay under the blood alcohol limit, being in the company of these happy, chatty euphoric drunks starts becoming a chore.
Indeed, and you'd lighten your mood and ours by moving along. Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable in the kitchen, while me and my friends are being mutually witty and charming out on the porch.

I made it pretty clear I'm not a teetotaler. The bright line you're suggesting wasn't made by me.

As for "you'd lighten your mood AND OURS", it's perfectly clear to me from experience that the people who are completely plastered aren't actually aware enough of their surroundings to be bothered by my presence, standing there drink in hand but still possessing my muscle coordination. The being bothered is entirely one way.

[ 03. June 2014, 23:54: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

Dude, relax.

You're not a teetotaler. I'm not a falling-down drunk. Yet even without these poles, the fact that folk whose levels of intoxication are distant to each other can feel mutual discomfort is a good fact to recognize.

I guess I didn't strike the right tone in suggesting that distancing yourself (the one measuring out the liquor to ensure you stay under the blood alcohol limit) from the happy, chatty, euphoric drunks lest maintaining your mellow become a chore.

It was not my intention to antagonize. And, for doing so, I'm sorry and I apologize.

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