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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Students in Church
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
I was wondering about shipmates' experience of students attending church whilst at the local uni.
Would you say that worshiping students are fewer in number now?
I am not necessarily thinking of the numbers of Christian students but rather on their own worshiping practices; has the number of students who maintain church-going fallen in favour of taking a break from church whilst away from home?
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I'm just about still a student and I think Leo is on the money. Also, CUs are the main Christian organisation on most campuses (for some universities, the only Christian organisation) and will generally guide students towards a few 'student' churches, usually Vineyard/NFI but sometimes on the stricter Reformed/Calvinist end - and the student's own background is largely ignored. I know in Northampton for instance, despite there being many churches for a town of its size and many denominations, the vast majority of students attend three or four churches. RC and Orthodox students generally are not considered 'real' Christians and so get ignored.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
In Cambridge there are about as many students going to church as there were thirty years ago. They're divided between the Christian Union students who go to St Andrew the Great, Eden Baptist, or Holy Trinity (and a few smaller community churches) and the others who go to St Ben'e't's, Little St Mary's, Great St Mary's and Michaelhouse, and, of course Our Lady and the English Martyrs and Fisher House. What I notice now though, is that there is considerably more provision made for non-Christian students: the Jewish students are much more visible than they were thirty years ago, and there's more provision for Jewish services in the city. Muslim students are also much more visible, though there's foot-dragging (as expected) on the building of a mosque.
All this is apart from the College chapels, though there are people who attend both church and College services.
So no: I don't see a decline.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
In Cambridge there are about as many students going to church as there were thirty years ago. They're divided between the Christian Union students who go to St Andrew the Great, Eden Baptist, or Holy Trinity (and a few smaller community churches) and the others who go to St Ben'e't's, Little St Mary's, Great St Mary's and Michaelhouse, and, of course Our Lady and the English Martyrs and Fisher House. What I notice now though, is that there is considerably more provision made for non-Christian students: the Jewish students are much more visible than they were thirty years ago, and there's more provision for Jewish services in the city. Muslim students are also much more visible, though there's foot-dragging (as expected) on the building of a mosque.
All this is apart from the College chapels, though there are people who attend both church and College services.
So no: I don't see a decline.
But that's Cambridge - Oxbridge colleges, Edinburgh and places like St Mary's Twickenham are not the norm regarding students and religious service attendance. It's very very different for more 'mainstream' universities.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
It may be that there is an aging spiral. The church I attend is mostly attended by middle-aged and older people and a few families with children. Many of the church's scheduled events seem to be held at times when only unemployed or retired folks can attend them. I suspect that there may be a reinforcing effect: we have only older people coming to events, so there's no point in planning events for younger people. If I were a young person and happened to attend that church, I think I might feel isolated, as there would be few others of my own age and situation in life. Older people might feel at home.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Jade, the question was about Shipmates' experience. I gave mine, which I thought would be useful since it takes in an extended span of time. I'm not prepared to generalise for all British universities, ancient, redbrick, and Blairite, and I'd question whether you're really in a position to do so. My acquaintances at the various London Universities (including LSE) tell me that there are a fair number of churchgoing students there too.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Jade, the question was about Shipmates' experience. I gave mine, which I thought would be useful since it takes in an extended span of time. I'm not prepared to generalise for all British universities, ancient, redbrick, and Blairite, and I'd question whether you're really in a position to do so. My acquaintances at the various London Universities (including LSE) tell me that there are a fair number of churchgoing students there too.
I'm sorry if it sounded like I was dismissing your experience - I'm really not, and I'm not generalising about all universities. My experience is based on knowledge of Christians at various universities (all different types) through national student organisations. In my experience, outside of ancient universities and some redbrick ones with a particular faith heritage, there are serious issues for churches outside Vineyard/NFI etc types.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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OddJob
Shipmate
# 17591
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Posted
I'm reliably told that the proportion of Christian students at the Russell Group Uni where I work is no less now than 20 or so years ago. However our church sees far fewer students now, and I'm glad we didn't adapt our buildings at the time to cater for a fickle market. We're not currently a church favoured by students.
However friends working in student missionary at an ex-Poly (don't want to sound snobbish - I was Poly educated/trained) in a part of the country with low church attendance report a much lower proportion of Christians there, but that probably reflects different lifestyles and regional trends.
The national picture is probably skewed by the former institutions joining the fold, and the fact that their students are often older with different lifestyles and less time to join student Christian groups.
Posts: 97 | From: West Midlands | Registered: Mar 2013
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
I haven't attended there for years, but my old High-Anglican church had very few students when I was there, but has a good bunch now. This change came about due to a chaplain who was High-Anglican who was quite clear that being a Christian student didn't have to mean that one was charistmatic and/or evangelical (while not being against those traditions). That and the fact that a few (former) students ended up on the PCC and having functions in the church, something that made the place appear more student-friendly.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
[QUOTE]In my experience, outside of ancient universities and some redbrick ones with a particular faith heritage, there are serious issues for churches outside Vineyard/NFI etc types.
That may or may not be true - but might it be related to the expectations of young people moving to university from such churches? ISTM that the "traditional" denominations expect very little of their leaving young people.
Perhaps you see it from an SCM perspective which, being, more open theologically, tends to attract students from home churches of a similar understanding. If such churches are declining and/or there are more young people in charismatic or evangelical churches, that might explain a bigger focus on the CU's which are run (still, I think) by UCCF. [You do come across as having a chip on your shoulder about the CU at Northampton which IME has been pretty ok over the years].
FWIW my experience tallies with that of Amos. Church going amongst students still happens - the expression of that does depend on the nature of the CU. The "hot" churches change from time to time and there's usually an Anglican, a Baptist, and a NFI or Vineyard in the mix.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Ahleal V
Shipmate
# 8404
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Posted
Whilst commending Leo's two points, I'm noticing a distinct bias towards graduate students in University chaplaincy. This could be down to a few factors. I don't want to think that it's necessarily a sign of secularism among the young, but I think grad students in most cases have lives that are less intense than the undergrads, and so they can take the space to think about God/faith a bit more.
x
AV
Posts: 499 | From: English Spires | Registered: Aug 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Our 'local' university is some 8 miles away and has its own chapel, not to mention a cathedral within a mile and a choice of 8 Anglican churches, 2 RC, Baptist and URC, plus 3 non-denominational outfits. And to reach us from the university is a nightmare by public transport.
Taking all that into account, we wouldn't expect to have any students - except that this year we have gained three, all of whom have stayed the course. In fact, one has brought along a friend for the last few Sundays (today was their last) and the other two have fixed accommodation in the village for next year so we expect to see more of them.
As for why they chose us: one came because he thought the previous incumbent was still with us - he knew of this person vaguely - but chose to stay even so; and he brought his 2 friends who, like him, found what was available in the Uni chapel off-putting.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
[QUOTE]In my experience, outside of ancient universities and some redbrick ones with a particular faith heritage, there are serious issues for churches outside Vineyard/NFI etc types.
That may or may not be true - but might it be related to the expectations of young people moving to university from such churches? ISTM that the "traditional" denominations expect very little of their leaving young people.
Perhaps you see it from an SCM perspective which, being, more open theologically, tends to attract students from home churches of a similar understanding. If such churches are declining and/or there are more young people in charismatic or evangelical churches, that might explain a bigger focus on the CU's which are run (still, I think) by UCCF. [You do come across as having a chip on your shoulder about the CU at Northampton which IME has been pretty ok over the years].
FWIW my experience tallies with that of Amos. Church going amongst students still happens - the expression of that does depend on the nature of the CU. The "hot" churches change from time to time and there's usually an Anglican, a Baptist, and a NFI or Vineyard in the mix.
I wouldn't call it 'a chip on my shoulder' (and I'm not sure such personal things should be brought into this...), suffice to say that I was treated very badly and the leadership over the last three years or so has absolutely decimated membership - however this should hopefully change soon with a new leadership team.
I'm also not speaking from an SCM perspective but rather a small university perspective - I've actually spent far more time in CUs than in SCM, and have tons of experience of CU-friendly churches. However, things are so different for small universities than for bigger ones - a lack of campus culture, more mature and commuting students, more students doing placement-heavy courses like teaching and nursing. Northampton is such a place so the CU was never huge to start with - all societies struggle including secular ones, except sports societies.
You do like to call me out for generalising but you are making an awful lot of assumptions about me.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
However, things are so different for small universities than for bigger ones - a lack of campus culture, more mature and commuting students, more students doing placement-heavy courses like teaching and nursing. Northampton is such a place so the CU was never huge to start with - all societies struggle including secular ones, except sports societies.
I'm sure that's true. Most of our local students commute in from their home villages, so they'll stay in their own churches if they have them. We do have a (rising) number who live on campus - these are mostly attracted by New Frontiers and Vineyard churches nearby. The tiny Congregational church right on the Uni's doorstep fails to attract anyone, I fear.
There is little "evening University culture" - even the Students' Union bar closed down, due to lack of custom! The CU is weak but is supported by the Chaplaincy.
[ 13. July 2014, 18:50: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
As for why they chose us: one came because he thought the previous incumbent was still with us - he knew of this person vaguely - but chose to stay even so; and he brought his 2 friends who, like him, found what was available in the Uni chapel off-putting.
I stuck with the university chapels while I was at university, though it was way more evangelical than I was used to. It seemed to me that it was the local church and I would need more than a clash of churchmanship to push me away. The Anglican chaplain was good enough to make up for not celebrating communion each Sunday by offering a celebration on a Wednesday. It is an experience that has stood me in good stead in my current Presbyterian wilderness ![[Biased]](wink.gif) .
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
In Cambridge there are about as many students going to church as there were thirty years ago. They're divided between the Christian Union students who go to St Andrew the Great, Eden Baptist, or Holy Trinity (and a few smaller community churches) and the others who go to St Ben'e't's, Little St Mary's, Great St Mary's and Michaelhouse, and, of course Our Lady and the English Martyrs and Fisher House. What I notice now though, is that there is considerably more provision made for non-Christian students: the Jewish students are much more visible than they were thirty years ago, and there's more provision for Jewish services in the city. Muslim students are also much more visible, though there's foot-dragging (as expected) on the building of a mosque.
All this is apart from the College chapels, though there are people who attend both church and College services.
So no: I don't see a decline.
But that's Cambridge - Oxbridge colleges, Edinburgh and places like St Mary's Twickenham are not the norm regarding students and religious service attendance. It's very very different for more 'mainstream' universities.
How is Edinburgh not mainstream? It's a city with 4 very different universities. When I was there there were several particularly popular student churches, but a fair amount of students went to the local CsofS near where they lived and those of us from particular denominations often stuck to those. I wasn't in CU but the church search they did at the beginning of each year was fairly wide ranging. Not being there anymore I can't comment on student numbers, but there were changing fashions over the years over which was the most popular church!
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scots lass:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
In Cambridge there are about as many students going to church as there were thirty years ago. They're divided between the Christian Union students who go to St Andrew the Great, Eden Baptist, or Holy Trinity (and a few smaller community churches) and the others who go to St Ben'e't's, Little St Mary's, Great St Mary's and Michaelhouse, and, of course Our Lady and the English Martyrs and Fisher House. What I notice now though, is that there is considerably more provision made for non-Christian students: the Jewish students are much more visible than they were thirty years ago, and there's more provision for Jewish services in the city. Muslim students are also much more visible, though there's foot-dragging (as expected) on the building of a mosque.
All this is apart from the College chapels, though there are people who attend both church and College services.
So no: I don't see a decline.
But that's Cambridge - Oxbridge colleges, Edinburgh and places like St Mary's Twickenham are not the norm regarding students and religious service attendance. It's very very different for more 'mainstream' universities.
How is Edinburgh not mainstream? It's a city with 4 very different universities. When I was there there were several particularly popular student churches, but a fair amount of students went to the local CsofS near where they lived and those of us from particular denominations often stuck to those. I wasn't in CU but the church search they did at the beginning of each year was fairly wide ranging. Not being there anymore I can't comment on student numbers, but there were changing fashions over the years over which was the most popular church!
Sorry - talking about Edinburgh the university, not the city! Also by 'not mainstream' I don't mean that it's weird or anything, I just mean that like other ancient universities, there is a faith culture there that wouldn't be at most redbrick or modern universities.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
I don't think there is a faith culture in the University really. Unlike some of the other ancient universities it's not a church institution originally, and although there was an old Faculty of Divinity there was no University Chapel - just a standard chaplaincy. It's also so large that it encompasses a huge range of people, the majority of my course etc were disinterested. I understand your point, but I think Edinburgh's not a good example of it.
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
Scottish universities are not the same as English universities.Two founded before the Reformation have old chapels,namely St Salvator's in St Andrews and Kings College in Old Aberdeen.
Kings college chapel has a Catholic Mass on Saturday evening,but I have no idea how many people attend any of the services.
Glasgow University,although founded originally in 1451 had no chapel in the main building on Gilmorehill built in the mid 1800s until the period after World War 1.
Edinburgh,founded after the Reformation,had and has no official chapel,but there are a number of chaplaincy centres for the different faith groups.
The new Dominican chapel is well attended,indeed every day,but again I don't know about the others.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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ButchCassidy
Shipmate
# 11147
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Posted
London perspective (which is always a bit different) from UCL student, mid 2000s, as I recall:
UCL's a bit weird in that there is no chaplaincy (Godless of Gower St etc) and therefore no focal Christian place for freshers to figure out the scene. Instead, lots of freshers (including RCs), went to CU for the first month or two (it having the word Christian and being the most obvious presence) while we got used to London ways. Then we split off as follows:
Evos to the various CU-approved churches (either St Helens or All Souls depending on whether you were reformed or charismatic);
RCs or RC-facing Anglo Catholics to Newman House, the University of London catholic chaplaincy (which is very near);
Liberals and soft Anglo-Catholics to places like St Pancras, whose vicar at the time did try to act as an unofficial Anglican chaplain with tea-and-cake meetings etc;
MOTR Christians such as yours truly to whichever we sympathised with more at the time. We tend to be quite unity-minded anyway...
Tbh, I found that London students, including Christians, tended to be a bit more individualistic than others (certainly more so than Oxford at least) and if you had chosen to go to uni there, you were probably capable of going to find a church on your own bat. From the outside, I think it looked like quite a heathen place, but then if you asked around you found that lots and lots of people went to the churches near their homes (this is London...) in quite a quiet unassuming way. Same as the London social life in general: why go to the uni places when you have the whole city to choose from?
In summary I doubt student churchgoing is a great deal less than previous in London, its just not that obvious (unless you're a St Helens/All Souls evo).
[ 14. July 2014, 17:23: Message edited by: ButchCassidy ]
Posts: 104 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2006
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Our local Universities are physically in the next-door parish (charismatic-evo C of E), and they have someone who acts as a sort of liaison between Church and Unis. IIRC, she is only funded for one day a week, but presumably works with the recently-appointed C of E Uni Chaplain (who covers all three Unis). AFAIK, though, the Church only has 8-10 regular students attending (mostly the Sunday 630pm service rather than the 1030am!).
We, OTOH, just down the road, have the majority of the student flats/apartments etc. in our little A-C parish. We are prevented, by security gates/doors/student accommodation office staff, from posting our quarterly parish newsletter through their letterboxes - but we do welcome a few students from time to time who have found us through the Internet, or simply by through walking past the Church (and, if they did that, the were either rambling carelessly through the backstreets, or were lost!).
I am hoping and praying that, after the summer vacation, we may be able to contact the new Chaplain, just to see what we can offer her, in what cannot be a particularly easy ministry.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Scots Lass - I think my opinion was skewed slightly by the big SCM (biggest SCM society in the UK) and CU presence, happy to not include Edinburgh in that list then!
Also that London perspective rings true to me from what I've heard.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
London also includes:
- Imperial College where the CU attends HTB and when I was there there was no chaplaincy to point to anywhere else;
- Kings College which has its own chapel and theology department;
- QMC (Queen Mary College) which is in a very Muslim area but has a number of local churches - no idea where students actually go;
There are also a the old polytechnics - University of Southbank, University of North West London, University of Greenwich and the rest, and all the teaching hospitals and the University of Roehampton - which used to be all the teaching colleges - so it's going to be a bit difficult to generalise for London.
[ 14. July 2014, 21:51: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
London also includes:
- Imperial College where the CU attends HTB and when I was there there was no chaplaincy to point to anywhere else;
- Kings College which has its own chapel and theology department;
- QMC (Queen Mary College) which is in a very Muslim area but has a number of local churches - no idea where students actually go;
There are also a the old polytechnics - University of Southbank, University of North West London, University of Greenwich and the rest, and all the teaching hospitals and the University of Roehampton - which used to be all the teaching colleges - so it's going to be a bit difficult to generalise for London.
I know people at LSE setting up an SCM group, and there are students attending St Pancras.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
[*]QMC (Queen Mary College) which is in a very Muslim area but has a number of local churches - no idea where students actually go;
HTB has a church plant starting up at Christ Church Spitalfields which I hear will be trying to capture students living in East London, which in addition to Queen Mary includes a large LSE student residence that is just behind the market. And of course many students who attend the central London universities actually live in East London.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
I was wondering about shipmates' experience of students attending church whilst at the local uni.
Would you say that worshiping students are fewer in number now?
I am not necessarily thinking of the numbers of Christian students but rather on their own worshiping practices; has the number of students who maintain church-going fallen in favour of taking a break from church whilst away from home?
Hasn't the number of young people who live away from home while studying for a degree fallen, because of cost? Is that significant enough to have had an effect on visible attendance at churches in university towns?
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
We usually get no students (unless you count the ones who come back to visit mum and dad), as we are 10-15 miles away from the nearest university, and do not have any student residences in the town. However, this year we do have one student who is commuting from her parents' home each day. It has been hugely beneficial to us, as she is studying education and has therefore decided to run our junior choir. Normally, as soon as the young people start to get really useful, as adults in their own right, they leave to study far from home. (And often don't come back until they retire!) Perhaps now we will see a few more staying in their home area to study and continuing to play a strong part in their local church?
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Hasn't the number of young people who live away from home while studying for a degree fallen, because of cost? Is that significant enough to have had an effect on visible attendance at churches in university towns?
This is probably the case, but in Birmingham there seems to have been a great increase in the amount of student accommodation, and the building work is still going on.
Apart from that, I'm wondering whether the growth in the number of international students (especially postgraduates) has made a difference to university chaplaincies/CUs/Christian societies.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Here at Washington State University a number of student appealing ministries of the fundamentalist type are strong. Churches like Resonate (which is Southern Baptist in origin); Campus Crusade (non denominational but heavily Calvinist; Campus Christian Fellowship are all strong.
The Interfaith House, which was owned by the local Presbyterian Synod but housed UCC, Presbyterian; Methodist ministries as well as a Jewish Student Association just closed its doors.
The Roman Catholic chapel is still going strong. We have a Lutheran office there, though I cannot say much about the chaplain (long, long story). Our local church has an on campus group called Connections which draws 20-30 people for coffee and cookies mid week. That group has 150 followers on its Facebook.
I would say my congregation gets about 30 students attending worship, though not all on a regular basis. I know our pastor maintains social media contact with a number of non attenders. It seems of the regular student attendees most are graduates. We have students from Africa, Peru, and India worshiping with us at the present time.
We really seek to keep a social media ministry, reaching out to students especially during the holidays and times of stress (end of semester tests).
The other Lutheran church in the area also has its own campus ministry, though I do not know how many are involved.
While the Interfaith House closed its doors, I do know the Methodist, UCC and Episcopal churches also maintain a presence on campus. Their chaplains are working out of local congregations which are only a few blocks from the campus.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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