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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Quakers - Society of Friends
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
Are there any Quaker Shippies? If you don't want to out yourself, could you PM me?
Many thanks
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
*waves*
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
hi!
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Ferdzy
Shipmate
# 8702
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Posted
Greetings!
Posts: 252 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Oct 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I know we have at least another two - but they might not be up yet.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
...or one of them may have been watching the cricket!
As we now have 5 declared Quakers there are probably 6 or 7 views on any one topic!
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I know we have at least another two - but they might not be up yet.
One of them might have been walking round Hay Festival with Eigon ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Hi Nicodemia. I'm a Bad Example of a Quaker.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Viola
Administrator
# 20
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Posted
I've been a regular attender since January, after having Quakerly niggles for a lot longer. Would love to join my meeting's Searchers group, but it meets at the most inconvenient time possible for my personal calendar.
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"If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15
"Commandment number one: shut the hell up." Erin Etheredge 1971-2010
Posts: 4345 | From: West of England | Registered: May 2001
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LJB
Shipmate
# 1057
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Posted
Hello
Posts: 83 | From: Ooop North | Registered: Aug 2001
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
Late to the party as usual! Hi.
Um... Is there any reason for us to out ourselves?
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Viola:
I've been a regular attender since January, after having Quakerly niggles for a lot longer. Would love to join my meeting's Searchers group, but it meets at the most inconvenient time possible for my personal calendar.
Has anyone suggested Becoming Friends?
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Garasu:
Um... Is there any reason for us to out ourselves?
"Hi... my name is comet and I'm an irregular attender..."
"Hi, comet..."
I think Nicodemia is seeking basic information on perhaps attending her first Meeting.
Can any UK Friends tell us what attending a first Meeting would be like? i can speak from my perspective, but I think we're a little different.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:
Originally posted by Viola:
I've been a regular attender since January, after having Quakerly niggles for a lot longer. Would love to join my meeting's Searchers group, but it meets at the most inconvenient time possible for my personal calendar.
Has anyone suggested Becoming Friends?
that's really cool, thanks!
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Viola
Administrator
# 20
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Posted
I have signed up at Becoming Friends. It's just a question of getting on with it really.
Both Quaker meetings (by which I mean both places - I've been lots of times now) I've attended have had the same welcome, which is a friendly greeting at the door and the offer of a couple of leaflets to read if this is your first meeting.
Then it's blissful silence, at least for a while, and tea afterwards.
I've noted that whilst Quakers may worship in silence (mostly), they are some of the chattiest, friendliest individuals I've come across.
And they don't tell you what to believe, and they are very big on equality & restorative justice. At least my local lot are.
Definitely worth a visit or two.
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"If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15
"Commandment number one: shut the hell up." Erin Etheredge 1971-2010
Posts: 4345 | From: West of England | Registered: May 2001
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
My first Meeting for Worship was like coming home! I already knew many of the local Friends through peace movement stuff so I felt supported already - then Meeting started and there was this awesome Gathered Silence. Both my regular Meetings in UK were fairly quiet places, I understand that in some Meetings folks are almost queueing up to minister so I was lucky with Birkenhead and Brigflatts as I'm a quiet sort of person [yes, really!]
As a gentle bit of background reading I recommend Harvey Gillman little book A Light that is Shining - a great introduction to our strange little group.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
Me too.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
As a gentle bit of background reading I recommend Harvey Gillman little book A Light that is Shining - a great introduction to our strange little group.
and this book. it kind of changed my life. for the better.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Ferdzy
Shipmate
# 8702
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Viola:
I've noted that whilst Quakers may worship in silence (mostly), they are some of the chattiest, friendliest individuals I've come across.
"I'm not!" (Kidding, kidding... kinda.)
Posts: 252 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Oct 2004
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
...and no-one did the obvious, and posted an empty post, or as few dots as the software would allow?
I'm disappointed!
AG
(two years at a Friends School did for any chance of me becoming a friend, sorry!)
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Viola:
I've noted that whilst Quakers may worship in silence (mostly), they are some of the chattiest, friendliest individuals I've come across.
True - until your opinion differs from theirs - then watch out. I've not found Quakers overly collaborative in ecumenical settings; they tend to want to do stuff their way. They also seem to punch way above their weight in such settings, perhaps because IME they come from a very narrow social grouping (middle class and educated). Perhaps it's because those meetings in particular towns have been rather wider in their spirituality.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I read an interesting chapter by Pink Dandelion in which he argued that because of the doctrinal freedom of British (and Liberal Quakers elsewhere) there was a very strong emphasis on Orthopraxis (or doing things the right way).
He also argued that Quakers were developing a creed like notion of the "absolute perhaps".
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
.... until your opinion differs from theirs - then watch out. I've not found Quakers overly collaborative in ecumenical settings; they tend to want to do stuff their way.
Opinions are not a problem: six Quakers, seven opinions, as the saying goes. However, there is a difficulty with Christian ecumenism: many Quakers are ex-church, and they have become ex-Church because there are certain things they can't/won't do again. From your perspective, it may look like all take and no give, but from my perspective it's an hour-long programmed service with five minutes of silence 'for the Quakers'. Reminds me of the story of someone making a flask of coffee for their family: 'three spoonfuls for Katy, because she likes her coffee really sweet, only one spoonful for Mum, because she's on a diet, and none for Dad, because he doesn't take sugar in his coffee.'
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
.... until your opinion differs from theirs - then watch out. I've not found Quakers overly collaborative in ecumenical settings; they tend to want to do stuff their way.
... However, there is a difficulty with Christian ecumenism: many Quakers are ex-church, and they have become ex-Church because there are certain things they can't/won't do again.
I think that's right, I have found quite a number of Quakers (at least in this local setting) to be quite strongly anti-Church and anti-any strong statements of Christian belief ... all of which can make Ecumenical activity difficult. Not true of everyone, of course.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
I think [UK style] Friends in general are better at shared ACTION than they are at sharing worship spaces/times - thinking primarily of how UK Friends have historically, and still do, worked strongly with UK Catholics on issues like disarmament and poverty.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
I agree with WW. As a long-time community volunteer whose primary focus is social issues, a lot of my friends are Quakers. Quakers have little time for churchy stuff, but for social issues - watch out!
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I know a few quakers via social media, but can't say I've witnessed anything "anti-church". My experience is that it's a slightly different ecclesiology, which focuses more on action that on ceremony, which is no bad thing.
I've yet to pluck up the courage to go to a meeting, though. I've read a bit about them, but without an invite and maybe somebody quietly whispering in my ear what is going on, I'm a bit of a scaredy-cat. The nearest meeting house to me is in someone's front room and I daren't knock on the door out of the blue.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
.... until your opinion differs from theirs - then watch out. I've not found Quakers overly collaborative in ecumenical settings; they tend to want to do stuff their way.
Opinions are not a problem: six Quakers, seven opinions, as the saying goes. However, there is a difficulty with Christian ecumenism: many Quakers are ex-church, and they have become ex-Church because there are certain things they can't/won't do again. From your perspective, it may look like all take and no give, but from my perspective it's an hour-long programmed service with five minutes of silence 'for the Quakers'. Reminds me of the story of someone making a flask of coffee for their family: 'three spoonfuls for Katy, because she likes her coffee really sweet, only one spoonful for Mum, because she's on a diet, and none for Dad, because he doesn't take sugar in his coffee.'
Point taken but in this case the Quakers invariably insisted on beginning with 15 minutes of centering prayer and got huffy if anyone suggested otherwise. From my perspective that's a meeting dominated by certain agendas.
They wouldn't join the local churches together group unless that group changed the constitution (agreed nationally) to accommodate their views. They were very insistent that statement of belief should include the words "in the spirit of Christ and not "in Christ" as is usual. The constitution was changed contra to CTBI protocol and to allow the friends to become members.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
I agree with WW. As a long-time community volunteer whose primary focus is social issues, a lot of my friends are Quakers. Quakers have little time for churchy stuff, but for social issues - watch out!
Point taken but as many in the UK are from a fairly narrow range of backgrounds, they can sometimes look a bit daft esp on issues of poverty and deprivation which few of them rally ever encounter.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
they can sometimes look a bit daft esp on issues of poverty and deprivation which few of them rally ever encounter.
Depends what you mean by daft, I suppose.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
Thank you everyone for your views and help re Quakers. Especially those who PM'd me. I'm hoping that after my (imminent) holiday, I will have the courage to go to one of their meetings!
I didn't intend this thread to cause division amongst my fellow Shippies! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicodemia:
I didn't intend this thread to cause division amongst my fellow Shippies!
eh. We can take it. One member at my old meeting used to say we embrace the silence to keep us all from arguing.
as for ecumenical stuff - yay to you guys for even inviting the Friends. We're never even invited. I'm pretty sure they think we're a cult.
my favorite story - When my ex-husband joined the national guard not long after September 11, he was put into Intelligence. he came home one day chuckling - he found out the military had their eye on us. The jokes about bugged Meetings went around for a few days.
"is this thing even working? all I can hear are grumbling stomachs. is that a snore...?"
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
I sojourned with the Friends for three years. As far as going to an unprogrammed Friends meeting, my experience is that it's OK to do this:
Show up a little early, find a seat, not in the seats across the front of the room if it's set up that way. Sit for an hour in silence. I think there's some kind of signal for when the meeting starts, as opposed to people gathering and sitting waiting for the meeting to start, but I have absolutely no idea what it is, (although I think whatever it is, generally you can tell when the group becomes extra quiet, and if you're sitting quietly waiting anyway, it doesn't really matter when it actually starts). In one meeting I was in, the beginning was usually someone reading a part of our Yearly Meeting's book of Faith And Practice. If someone says something during the meeting, listen. Resist the urge to comment on anything others say in meeting until you have learned more about the norms of spoken ministry (the norms basically being that you don't comment on others' spoken ministry, but only offer your own ministry, and then there are norms about discerning when to offer your own spoken ministry at all.). At the end, usually after about an hour, people will start shaking hands with those near them. This is the signal that the meeting is over. Shake hands, get up and join in coffee hour, which is just like any other church coffee hour, no special customs.
For Alethiophile who is worried about showing up to someone's house, my sense of Quaker meetings is that they would be pleased and open to have someone new show up; no introduction required. Perhaps if you still feel shy you could send a letter to that address, saying you are interested in attending their meeting but have never been to Quaker meeting before, and are looking for some guidelines? There are also some ways to track down a phone number to contact the Clerk of the Meeting to ask for information, if the notice doesn't provide a phone number, if the Meeting is part of the Quaker organizational structure that I am familiar with (from the U.S.A.) of Quarterly and Yearly meetings.
I went to my first Quaker meeting knowing nothing other than the fact that Quaker meeting consists of sitting in silence, and that I knew two Friends who went to that meeting who were my first experience of a couple who didn't engage in bickering and subtle attacks and frustration with each other, and so whatever they had that made them like that, I wanted some too.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I think there's some kind of signal for when the meeting starts, as opposed to people gathering and sitting waiting for the meeting to start, but I have absolutely no idea what it is, (although I think whatever it is, generally you can tell when the group becomes extra quiet, and if you're sitting quietly waiting anyway, it doesn't really matter when it actually starts).
Technically, in Britain anyway, a meeting starts as soon as people start sitting down and being quiet. Typically some come in and settle early whilst others stay outside to chat until closer to the official start time.
Usually, there is a process of the silence getting quieter and deeper.
People may still filter in after the official start time - you are supposed to be very quiet and discreet if you come in late, but we have some people with learning difficulties in our meeting, and one of them calls out or waves whenever she comes in. We only have one 'programmed' reading per month - the reader chooses the exact passage and also chooses when to start, but they would usually wait until the meeting feels more settled or centred.
Where you can sit: the advice I read (a long time ago) is that those who come in early should sit further from the door, leaving spaces near the door for those who come in late. In my experience, most people just sit where they like, but a few meetings do still have a designated 'Elders' bench', so it might be wise to check with the door keeper/welcomer.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
Y'alright?
Well, I call myself Quaker (I'm Anglican as well), while I haven't attended Meeting for a few years, as there is only one Meeting in Poland and that's miles away, and, well, the situation is quite strange. There are about six of us in Poland, and I haven't met the others.
I first attended Meeting in a time when I used my one Sunday a month free (I was a Cathedral Verger at the time) to go to different confessions, visiting RC, Greek Orthodox, Baptist, Assemblies of God, Methodist and URC churches as well. I was most attracted to the Orthodox service and Quaker Meeting, seeing them quite similar in terms of the focus on God in awe, something that is beyond knowing; I felt an inner silence during both occasions.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
they can sometimes look a bit daft esp on issues of poverty and deprivation which few of them rally ever encounter.
Depends what you mean by daft, I suppose.
Daft in the sense of some of the assumptions they make about others' lives, not having experienced anything like it themselves.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
That's a mighty big assumption you got there, buddy.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Perhaps we should start a purg thread ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
That's a mighty big assumption you got there, buddy.
Only in the sense of that's what I've come across in members of the 2 Quaker groups I've known in the last 13 years. It may or may not be universal but it is specific to 2 meetings.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
Hello, my life keeps me from being a regular attender here, but I am a fellow Friend.
Nicodemia, I hope you will soon be able to attend a Meeting for Worship and that you experience God's grace as you seek to connect with the inner light.
sabine
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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