Ship of Fools: Quakers - Society of Friends

Thread: Quakers - Society of Friends Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :

Are there any Quaker Shippies? If you don't want to out yourself, could you PM me?

Many thanks

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

*waves*

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

hi!

Posted by Ferdzy (# 8702) on :

Greetings!

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

I know we have at least another two - but they might not be up yet.

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

...or one of them may have been watching the cricket!

As we now have 5 declared Quakers there are probably 6 or 7 views on any one topic!

Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :

I am a Quaker attender.

Posted by QLib (# 43) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I know we have at least another two - but they might not be up yet.

One of them might have been walking round Hay Festival with Eigon [Smile]

Hi Nicodemia. I'm a Bad Example of a Quaker.

Posted by Viola (# 20) on :

I've been a regular attender since January, after having Quakerly niggles for a lot longer. Would love to join my meeting's Searchers group, but it meets at the most inconvenient time possible for my personal calendar.

Posted by LJB (# 1057) on :

Hello

Posted by Garasu (# 17152) on :

Late to the party as usual! Hi.

Um... Is there any reason for us to out ourselves?

Posted by QLib (# 43) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Viola:
I've been a regular attender since January, after having Quakerly niggles for a lot longer. Would love to join my meeting's Searchers group, but it meets at the most inconvenient time possible for my personal calendar.

Has anyone suggested Becoming Friends?

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Garasu:
Um... Is there any reason for us to out ourselves?

"Hi... my name is comet and I'm an irregular attender..."

"Hi, comet..."

[Smile]

I think Nicodemia is seeking basic information on perhaps attending her first Meeting.

Can any UK Friends tell us what attending a first Meeting would be like? i can speak from my perspective, but I think we're a little different.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by QLib:

quote:
Originally posted by Viola:
I've been a regular attender since January, after having Quakerly niggles for a lot longer. Would love to join my meeting's Searchers group, but it meets at the most inconvenient time possible for my personal calendar.
Has anyone suggested Becoming Friends?

that's really cool, thanks!

Posted by Viola (# 20) on :

I have signed up at Becoming Friends. It's just a question of getting on with it really.

Both Quaker meetings (by which I mean both places - I've been lots of times now) I've attended have had the same welcome, which is a friendly greeting at the door and the offer of a couple of leaflets to read if this is your first meeting.

Then it's blissful silence, at least for a while, and tea afterwards.

I've noted that whilst Quakers may worship in silence (mostly), they are some of the chattiest, friendliest individuals I've come across.

And they don't tell you what to believe, and they are very big on equality & restorative justice. At least my local lot are.

Definitely worth a visit or two.

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

My first Meeting for Worship was like coming home! I already knew many of the local Friends through peace movement stuff so I felt supported already - then Meeting started and there was this awesome Gathered Silence. Both my regular Meetings in UK were fairly quiet places, I understand that in some Meetings folks are almost queueing up to minister so I was lucky with Birkenhead and Brigflatts as I'm a quiet sort of person [yes, really!]

As a gentle bit of background reading I recommend Harvey Gillman little book A Light that is Shining - a great introduction to our strange little group.

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :

Me too.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
As a gentle bit of background reading I recommend Harvey Gillman little book A Light that is Shining - a great introduction to our strange little group.

and this book. it kind of changed my life. for the better.

Posted by Ferdzy (# 8702) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Viola:
I've noted that whilst Quakers may worship in silence (mostly), they are some of the chattiest, friendliest individuals I've come across.

"I'm not!" (Kidding, kidding... kinda.)

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

...and no-one did the obvious, and posted an empty post, or as few dots as the software would allow?

I'm disappointed!

AG
(two years at a Friends School did for any chance of me becoming a friend, sorry!)

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Viola:
I've noted that whilst Quakers may worship in silence (mostly), they are some of the chattiest, friendliest individuals I've come across.

True - until your opinion differs from theirs - then watch out. I've not found Quakers overly collaborative in ecumenical settings; they tend to want to do stuff their way. They also seem to punch way above their weight in such settings, perhaps because IME they come from a very narrow social grouping (middle class and educated). Perhaps it's because those meetings in particular towns have been rather wider in their spirituality.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

I read an interesting chapter by Pink Dandelion in which he argued that because of the doctrinal freedom of British (and Liberal Quakers elsewhere) there was a very strong emphasis on Orthopraxis (or doing things the right way).

He also argued that Quakers were developing a creed like notion of the "absolute perhaps".

Jengie

Posted by QLib (# 43) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
.... until your opinion differs from theirs - then watch out. I've not found Quakers overly collaborative in ecumenical settings; they tend to want to do stuff their way.

Opinions are not a problem: six Quakers, seven opinions, as the saying goes. However, there is a difficulty with Christian ecumenism: many Quakers are ex-church, and they have become ex-Church because there are certain things they can't/won't do again. From your perspective, it may look like all take and no give, but from my perspective it's an hour-long programmed service with five minutes of silence 'for the Quakers'. Reminds me of the story of someone making a flask of coffee for their family: 'three spoonfuls for Katy, because she likes her coffee really sweet, only one spoonful for Mum, because she's on a diet, and none for Dad, because he doesn't take sugar in his coffee.'

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by QLib:

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
.... until your opinion differs from theirs - then watch out. I've not found Quakers overly collaborative in ecumenical settings; they tend to want to do stuff their way.
... However, there is a difficulty with Christian ecumenism: many Quakers are ex-church, and they have become ex-Church because there are certain things they can't/won't do again.

I think that's right, I have found quite a number of Quakers (at least in this local setting) to be quite strongly anti-Church and anti-any strong statements of Christian belief ... all of which can make Ecumenical activity difficult. Not true of everyone, of course.

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

I think [UK style] Friends in general are better at shared ACTION than they are at sharing worship spaces/times - thinking primarily of how UK Friends have historically, and still do, worked strongly with UK Catholics on issues like disarmament and poverty.

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

I agree with WW. As a long-time community volunteer whose primary focus is social issues, a lot of my friends are Quakers. Quakers have little time for churchy stuff, but for social issues - watch out!

Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :

I know a few quakers via social media, but can't say I've witnessed anything "anti-church". My experience is that it's a slightly different ecclesiology, which focuses more on action that on ceremony, which is no bad thing.

I've yet to pluck up the courage to go to a meeting, though. I've read a bit about them, but without an invite and maybe somebody quietly whispering in my ear what is going on, I'm a bit of a scaredy-cat. The nearest meeting house to me is in someone's front room and I daren't knock on the door out of the blue.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by QLib:

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
.... until your opinion differs from theirs - then watch out. I've not found Quakers overly collaborative in ecumenical settings; they tend to want to do stuff their way.
Opinions are not a problem: six Quakers, seven opinions, as the saying goes. However, there is a difficulty with Christian ecumenism: many Quakers are ex-church, and they have become ex-Church because there are certain things they can't/won't do again. From your perspective, it may look like all take and no give, but from my perspective it's an hour-long programmed service with five minutes of silence 'for the Quakers'. Reminds me of the story of someone making a flask of coffee for their family: 'three spoonfuls for Katy, because she likes her coffee really sweet, only one spoonful for Mum, because she's on a diet, and none for Dad, because he doesn't take sugar in his coffee.'

Point taken but in this case the Quakers invariably insisted on beginning with 15 minutes of centering prayer and got huffy if anyone suggested otherwise. From my perspective that's a meeting dominated by certain agendas.

They wouldn't join the local churches together group unless that group changed the constitution (agreed nationally) to accommodate their views. They were very insistent that statement of belief should include the words "in the spirit of Christ and not "in Christ" as is usual. The constitution was changed contra to CTBI protocol and to allow the friends to become members.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
I agree with WW. As a long-time community volunteer whose primary focus is social issues, a lot of my friends are Quakers. Quakers have little time for churchy stuff, but for social issues - watch out!

Point taken but as many in the UK are from a fairly narrow range of backgrounds, they can sometimes look a bit daft esp on issues of poverty and deprivation which few of them rally ever encounter.

Posted by QLib (# 43) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
they can sometimes look a bit daft esp on issues of poverty and deprivation which few of them rally ever encounter.

Depends what you mean by daft, I suppose.

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :

Thank you everyone for your views and help re Quakers. Especially those who PM'd me. I'm hoping that after my (imminent) holiday, I will have the courage to go to one of their meetings!

I didn't intend this thread to cause division amongst my fellow Shippies! [Hot and Hormonal]

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nicodemia:
I didn't intend this thread to cause division amongst my fellow Shippies!

eh. We can take it. One member at my old meeting used to say we embrace the silence to keep us all from arguing.

as for ecumenical stuff - yay to you guys for even inviting the Friends. We're never even invited. I'm pretty sure they think we're a cult.

my favorite story - When my ex-husband joined the national guard not long after September 11, he was put into Intelligence. he came home one day chuckling - he found out the military had their eye on us. The jokes about bugged Meetings went around for a few days.

"is this thing even working? all I can hear are grumbling stomachs. is that a snore...?"

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :

I sojourned with the Friends for three years. As far as going to an unprogrammed Friends meeting, my experience is that it's OK to do this:

Show up a little early, find a seat, not in the seats across the front of the room if it's set up that way. Sit for an hour in silence. I think there's some kind of signal for when the meeting starts, as opposed to people gathering and sitting waiting for the meeting to start, but I have absolutely no idea what it is, (although I think whatever it is, generally you can tell when the group becomes extra quiet, and if you're sitting quietly waiting anyway, it doesn't really matter when it actually starts). In one meeting I was in, the beginning was usually someone reading a part of our Yearly Meeting's book of Faith And Practice. If someone says something during the meeting, listen. Resist the urge to comment on anything others say in meeting until you have learned more about the norms of spoken ministry (the norms basically being that you don't comment on others' spoken ministry, but only offer your own ministry, and then there are norms about discerning when to offer your own spoken ministry at all.). At the end, usually after about an hour, people will start shaking hands with those near them. This is the signal that the meeting is over. Shake hands, get up and join in coffee hour, which is just like any other church coffee hour, no special customs.

For Alethiophile who is worried about showing up to someone's house, my sense of Quaker meetings is that they would be pleased and open to have someone new show up; no introduction required. Perhaps if you still feel shy you could send a letter to that address, saying you are interested in attending their meeting but have never been to Quaker meeting before, and are looking for some guidelines? There are also some ways to track down a phone number to contact the Clerk of the Meeting to ask for information, if the notice doesn't provide a phone number, if the Meeting is part of the Quaker organizational structure that I am familiar with (from the U.S.A.) of Quarterly and Yearly meetings.

I went to my first Quaker meeting knowing nothing other than the fact that Quaker meeting consists of sitting in silence, and that I knew two Friends who went to that meeting who were my first experience of a couple who didn't engage in bickering and subtle attacks and frustration with each other, and so whatever they had that made them like that, I wanted some too.

Posted by QLib (# 43) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I think there's some kind of signal for when the meeting starts, as opposed to people gathering and sitting waiting for the meeting to start, but I have absolutely no idea what it is, (although I think whatever it is, generally you can tell when the group becomes extra quiet, and if you're sitting quietly waiting anyway, it doesn't really matter when it actually starts).

Technically, in Britain anyway, a meeting starts as soon as people start sitting down and being quiet. Typically some come in and settle early whilst others stay outside to chat until closer to the official start time.

Usually, there is a process of the silence getting quieter and deeper.
People may still filter in after the official start time - you are supposed to be very quiet and discreet if you come in late, but we have some people with learning difficulties in our meeting, and one of them calls out or waves whenever she comes in. We only have one 'programmed' reading per month - the reader chooses the exact passage and also chooses when to start, but they would usually wait until the meeting feels more settled or centred.

Where you can sit: the advice I read (a long time ago) is that those who come in early should sit further from the door, leaving spaces near the door for those who come in late. In my experience, most people just sit where they like, but a few meetings do still have a designated 'Elders' bench', so it might be wise to check with the door keeper/welcomer.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :

Y'alright?

Well, I call myself Quaker (I'm Anglican as well), while I haven't attended Meeting for a few years, as there is only one Meeting in Poland and that's miles away, and, well, the situation is quite strange. There are about six of us in Poland, and I haven't met the others.

I first attended Meeting in a time when I used my one Sunday a month free (I was a Cathedral Verger at the time) to go to different confessions, visiting RC, Greek Orthodox, Baptist, Assemblies of God, Methodist and URC churches as well. I was most attracted to the Orthodox service and Quaker Meeting, seeing them quite similar in terms of the focus on God in awe, something that is beyond knowing; I felt an inner silence during both occasions.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by QLib:

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
they can sometimes look a bit daft esp on issues of poverty and deprivation which few of them rally ever encounter.
Depends what you mean by daft, I suppose.

Daft in the sense of some of the assumptions they make about others' lives, not having experienced anything like it themselves.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

That's a mighty big assumption you got there, buddy.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

Perhaps we should start a purg thread ?

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
That's a mighty big assumption you got there, buddy.

Only in the sense of that's what I've come across in members of the 2 Quaker groups I've known in the last 13 years. It may or may not be universal but it is specific to 2 meetings.

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

Hello, my life keeps me from being a regular attender here, but I am a fellow Friend.

Nicodemia, I hope you will soon be able to attend a Meeting for Worship and that you experience God's grace as you seek to connect with the inner light.

sabine

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