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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: How on earth do full-time clergy/ ministers/ leaders do it?!
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
In addition to our other work, my husband and I have been made honorary Lay Readers in our diocese here in Kenya and we are helping to re-launch a parish which has 12 congregations and a new vicar.The last three Sundays I have preached and will be doing so for most of June.
We preach from the Lectionary, which I love, but I am exhausted by the sermon preparation and I've got several weeks more to get through.....
I take my hat off to all of you who do this week in and week out and I ask, how on earth do you do it?!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
I take my hat off to all of you who do this week in and week out and I ask, how on earth do you do it?!
With the help and support of others and with God's blessing to make time elastic on occasion.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
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Posted
What training have you had in preaching, Biblicat studies, Ehics, Doctrine etc?
We train Readers for at leat 2 years in the CofE - normally 3 (that's the national benchmark) - albeit part-time.
It is not fair to ask people to minister without giving them some training!
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"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
To be honest, I love preparing myself to preach. It's one of my favorite parts of the job. (To that, of course, we have to add in the actual preaching, and then all the conversations which flow out of it). It's become such a profound part of my weekly spiritual life that if I was to be assigned to a ministry where I wasn't regularly preaching, I'd probably still do a lot of the prep each week, because it's become part of my prayer.
I think that's how to make it not a drudgery or chore: make sure it's prayer. Gain a prayerful intimacy with the readings* (as well as a scholarly familiarity) for its own sake, forgetting you have to preach them. Once you've done that, start thinking about what you might say to others about how God is acting in light of these readings.
Volumes have been written about homiletic prep, but I'll share with you the single best piece of advice we got in homiletics class: Tell them what God's doing. One of our preaching profs would have us write down about a dozen sentences re-telling or summarizing a reading, all of which had God as the subject and a past tense action verb as the main verb (eg. "Jesus gave a life-giving command to the widow's son.") He'd then have us shift those into present tense and broaden the object (eg. "Jesus commands life for us."). That would then become to focus statement for the homily. Simple technique that often led to profound results.
If you want a brief primer, the two sections of preaching from Pope Francis' recent exhortation Joy of the Gospel repay reading immensely. I'll limit myself to quoting one paragraph:
quote:
A preaching which would be purely moralistic or doctrinaire, or one which turns into a lecture on biblical exegesis, detracts from this heart-to-heart communication which takes place in the homily and possesses a quasi-sacramental character: “Faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ” (Rom 10:17). In the homily, truth goes hand in hand with beauty and goodness. Far from dealing with abstract truths or cold syllogisms, it communicates the beauty of the images used by the Lord to encourage the practise of good. The memory of the faithful, like that of Mary, should overflow with the wondrous things done by God. Their hearts, growing in hope from the joyful and practical exercise of the love which they have received, will sense that each word of Scripture is a gift before it is a demand.
(my emphasis)
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*or just one or two of them. On busy weeks, I'll pick one or two readings to exclusively spend time with. If I'm limited in my time, I'd rather delve deeply into one or two readings than do a half-arsed job at all of them.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Originally posted by Charles Read:
quote:
What training have you had in preaching, Biblicat studies, Ehics, Doctrine etc?
We train Readers for at leat 2 years in the CofE - normally 3 (that's the national benchmark) - albeit part-time.
It is not fair to ask people to minister without giving them some training!
Sorry, I should have made it clearer, it's the frequency that is exhausting me not the fact of preaching. I've had two years training in Biblical and Missiological studies (which included theology and ethics and cross-cultural stuff too) and many years preaching experience at parish level so plenty of training and experience but not week in week out. That is what struck me and I am in awe of all of you who do that.
Hart - thank you for your wise and encouraging words. I do enjoy the preparation part but get nervous about the delivery (despite my experience) and also the cross-cultural situation makes me anxious to communicate well.Thank you.
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
I think it was Archbishop Coggan who spoke of preaching Sunday by Sunday as a "joyful tyranny". I have two set-piece sermons to prepare most weeks; I, too, enjoy preparing the but I would not be honest if I didn't say that it is sometimes a bit of a grind.
After all, I am effectively researching and writing two essays of about 2500 words each week, plus preparing prayers, a children's address, appropriate visuals (at times), bouncing hymn ideas back and forth with my organist ... it takes time which folk don't always seem to truly appreciate.
I think the hardest thing is "finding something fresh to say" each time, this is helped if one is following a lectionary or other course of preaching that one has devised to suit one's particular situation. But, again, some sermons seem to "come" so quickly that I can hardly get them down quick enough (despite being the world's fastest one-finger typist), at other times I have to grind out every word with difficulty. Some weeks I will come bounding into the pulpit feeling that I've got a great message from God, at other times I feel I am presenting something routine and unworthy - yet it is often these latter messages which people respond to.
I suppose one can draw a parallel with doing craft-y things such as embroidery. Doing that occasionally is, I presume, relaxing and fun; doing it to make a living at craft-fairs is a totally different ball game and needs much more discipline. That's much like the difference between occasional lay-preaching a "full-time" ministry.
I could say lots more ... but that's probably enough to be getting on with!
P.S. I have done it over a period - albeit slightly less regularly - in a foreign language/cross-cultural situation in West Africa - and that has its own set of problems!
[ 30. May 2014, 16:06: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Mrs Beaky
The problem might be Saturday prep and Sunday afternoon. The thing is that sermons are unusual situations and your body and personality try to adapt to them and quite often what we do outside them is not the best idea.
Things you might considers are:
- Do I need recuperation/relaxation time around when I am preaching?
- Do I need to process the nerves and might exercise be a good way to do that.
- Do I need to be part of a congregation as well as leading worship?
- Do I need time away from people to balance the performance aspect of a sermon?
- Do I need to bother about sleeping the rest of the week so I do not need to worry over not sleeping the night before?
- Do I need a space to let down your hair and allow the less Sunday side of your character out?
I am sure others can add other things. My Dad when he was preaching every Sunday often spent Sunday afternoon in the garden. I can see you thinking a restful exercise! My Dad never went for that style of gardening; when he gardened he did something energetic such as clearing brambles.
Jengie
[ 30. May 2014, 16:48: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
I think that's how to make it not a drudgery or chore: make sure it's prayer. Gain a prayerful intimacy with the readings* (as well as a scholarly familiarity) for its own sake, forgetting you have to preach them. Once you've done that, start thinking about what you might say to others about how God is acting in light of these readings.
Volumes have been written about homiletic prep, but I'll share with you the single best piece of advice we got in homiletics class: Tell them what God's doing. One of our preaching profs would have us write down about a dozen sentences re-telling or summarizing a reading, all of which had God as the subject and a past tense action verb as the main verb (eg. "Jesus gave a life-giving command to the widow's son.") He'd then have us shift those into present tense and broaden the object (eg. "Jesus commands life for us."). That would then become to focus statement for the homily. Simple technique that often led to profound results.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Spot on-- powerfully so.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Thank you all for your responses/ encouragement/ advice.
I won't be able to check this again till Monday as we're off to the parish but I'll take your collective wisdom with me!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
And speaking of collective wisdom, this might do better in All Saints, so I'm going to send it over there.
Ariel
Heaven Host
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
As others have said, the adrenaline, and the sense of privilege, should never cease to flow. To be honest I probably derive more of a buzz from presiding at the eucharist, but I deeply appreciate the God-given role of preaching and never take it lightly.
You are engaging in a wonderful work, and God will richly breath on and through your efforts.
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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
You could follow my mother's vicar's example. He had been in ministry a long time and he had a sermon for every week and every feast. (The lectionary was simpler in those days!)
He just got the relevant one out of the filing cabinet. She discovered this when she acted as his secretary - a voluntary job. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Oh, I have just remembered, one of my vicars had two funeral services, a short one for families who didn't want any fuss or much religion, approx 10 minutes and a longer one, maybe 15 minutes for people who wanted a bit more. He felt he knew what people wanted and that was what they got. He retired fairly recently so we are not talking a long time ago.
[ 31. May 2014, 11:35: Message edited by: Thyme ]
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
You could follow my mother's vicar's example. He had been in ministry a long time and he had a sermon for every week and every feast. (The lectionary was simpler in those days!)
He just got the relevant one out of the filing cabinet.
This saddens me. If someone is called by God to preach, the least he or she can do is to listen to what God wants to say, whether it's each week or only once a year. There are often others, whether Readers or ordained colleagues, who might be asked to preach if a vicar doesn't have the time or inspiration - perhaps that's what God is telling them!
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
The clergyman in "Lark Rise to Candleford" (I think!)had a sermon for each Sunday of the year, and believed his congregation welcomed the familiarity of their regular cycle.
Let's be honest: I have been known to dust down old sermons. But:
- usually in emergency (e.g. after an exceptionally busy week);
- never to the same congregation;
- never without thinking and praying about it;
- never without going over it, reworking and adjusting it to fit the circumstances.
It does seem to me that there are some messages which are very specifically "God's message to these people, now" and some which are more general. After all, the great preacher Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached many of his sermons on several occasions in itinerant ministry - indeed he believed they improved with repetition and familiarity. But I don't think I agree.
[ 31. May 2014, 14:04: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Not only are you not the same person as wrote the sermon, the congregation is different too.
As a member of the college choir, I was required to attend various churches where we sang. One church had three different services one day. Totally different congregations, different cultures and ages and make up.
The same sermon was preached at each of those services with absolutely no allowances for any differences at all in congregations.
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
My experience of Kenyan preaching is that its rather excitable! I'd have trouble doing that style. I don't like excessive emotion or enthusiasm in a sermon because it clouds the message. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Would be interested in hearing of your experience in the cross cultural context.
I'm only an occasional preacher at the moment but I find it takes me phlippin forever. At least ten hours a week. But apparently that's normal.
I too cannot imagine having to do it every week! I suspect that after a time you would settle into some kind of routine and rely more on your own ideas rather than devouring too many commentaries (which I am wont to do).
On the other hand, I'm not keen on platitudes. I prefer hearing an exegetical sermon that explains what their scriptures mean in their context. Then I can apply any interpretations myself afterward.
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a theological scrapbook
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
You are engaging in a wonderful work, and God will richly breath on and through your efforts.
I can't tell you how much encouragement these words gave me as I stood up to preach yesterday...many thanks to you and others who have commented for your kindness.
I've been thinking about the recycling sermons thingy. When I'm preparing to preach I do look back at things I've said elsewhere and sometimes use the odd thought and some of the same illustrations again in a different context. But mostly, I find I have moved on and there are different things to explore.
I've learned to adjust my style to wherever I am.So when (quaking in my boots) my husband and I stood up in front of our Cathedral congregation back in the UK to preach/ talk about what we were doing here in Kenya, we adjusted the style accordingly. I am a very practical person so I like to use stories/ examples to illustrate what something might look like lived out in everyday life but not at the expense of the Scriptures speaking for themselves.
Here in Kenya, Evensong,the Anglican church in the rural areas where we are based is old-fashioned prayer book Evangelical, the tradition in which my husband was reared. So we know how to adapt our style appropriately. The preaching is not overly "excitable", even in the city parishes, but it is more lively than many C of E parishes. Passionate but no shouting or manipulation tactics. The numerous Pentecostal churches are another thing altogether!
At the Cathedral in Nairobi, the preaching has actually been inspirational on more than one occasion though definitely still within the broad spectrum of Evangelical.
But even in the Anglican church the expectation in the rural areas is that the sermon will be anything up to an hour long....as our Kenyan colleagues tell us, a church service especially with a visiting preacher is an EVENT.
My husband finds no difficulty in speaking for protracted periods of time ![[Biased]](wink.gif) , I do. But allowing time for interpretation as our Kiswahili is not yet good enough for preaching I can fill 40 minutes (20 of which are the interpretation).
Yesterday, I began to use an illustration which I thought would work but could tell from the faces of the congregation that it wasn't so I changed the picture, very grateful indeed that as Zappa said "God breathed" and inspiration struck!
Back to my OP, I am very tired today.
This is a costly ministry for me! So I'm having a day off and I'm still taking my hat off to all of you full-timers.
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Nice thread. I think it's important not to expect every sermon to be stunning. If you're working on an average of two stunning, seven potboilers, and one dreadful for every ten sermons, you're not doing too badly. The same is true for any writer/performer. People remember the stunning ones, forget the potboilers, and with any luck forgive the dreadful.
But of course, never underestimate those potboilers - the ones you put just about enough effort into, that you thought came across okay, that you then forget yourself. By the grace of God and a few hefty coincidences, one phrase in one of those sermons might have changed someone's life. And you'll never know which phrase, which sermon, or which person. Preaching is a pastoral activity - probably the key pastoral engagement you'll have with the majority of those people that week - and God will always arrange for his sheep to be fed even if you don't.
And preaching should be tiring, in the same way that playing Hamlet should be tiring (not that I'm suggesting your sermons should last four hours and have a subplot about a bloke called Fortinbras).
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
You're so right, Adeodatus and it is really easy to feel it is "all about me" and to forget that we pray that we might "speak in God's name" before we preach. Thank you for your comments, they bring a lot of helpful perspective.
This time what I said really pleased an old lady of the parish who wanted me to come back to her house and stay the night and eat ugali (maize meal) so we could chat more about it!
Thanks to you too, Evensong for the encouragement!
[ 03. June 2014, 14:09: Message edited by: MrsBeaky ]
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
These are the amazing and humbling moments, when someone extrapolates something from a sermon - probably a potboiler - that you didn't think was there at all, and enthuses about the impact it has had on them. I have learned to take those moments to remind me, as Adeodatus says, that it ain't about me, and am learning to whisper a prayer of thanks to God.
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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
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