Thread: The Writers' Bleak Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
After all the fun we had (or didn't have!) doing NaNoWriMo, the writers aboard thought that we might keep that thread (or another one) going all year round to talk about our writing and share ideas and successes.

So, the 2012 NaNoWriMo thread is dead, long live The Writers' Block.

mr curly

[ 18. September 2014, 08:18: Message edited by: Firenze ]
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Um, no. It wasn't intended as a perpetual thread, just something to carry over the impetus from NaNoWriMo for a little bit longer.

We used to have a private board for writers (also named "Writers' Block"), which would probably be a better venue (if revived) for this kind of thing.

Sorry. I'm closing this one too, pending some discussion backstage.

Ariel
Heaven Host

[ 14. February 2013, 18:33: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
OK, thread reopened. But just to make it clear:

This is not the place for posting any extracts or asking for feedback on your work.

Other than that, please feel free to discuss issues connected with writing/publishing.

Thanks - and have fun!
Ariel
Heaven Host
 

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Posted by deano (# 12063) on :
 
How many of the Ships authors use a system (such as the snowflake method), or are you the type to start with a blank piece of paper and a muse?

I've got a few ideas for stories, and in fact once wrote 35K words before getting bored with it. In fact it was structuraly flawed and I may fix it one day, but not yet.

But I'm trying out plotting ideas, and wondered what the general opinions are.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
This probably won't be helpful, but in nonfiction i use the old brainstorm/ slash n burn/ organize outline / turn it into text method. But I've made my living most of my life in writing / editing nonfic. Now that I'm contemplating the leap to fiction, I'm a bit at a loss.

I DID discover during my recent surgery that the fiction connections come much easier to me when I'm hopped up on hydromorphine (synthetic heroin). Somehow I don 't think that's a particularly helpful bit of info for me to have.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
But I'm trying out plotting ideas, and wondered what the general opinions are.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Curly:

quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
But I'm trying out plotting ideas, and wondered what the general opinions are.

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The novel I recently finished was plotted out using a "how to write a screenplay" model. We used the one made famous in Save the Cat! by Blake Snyder. Go to the tools tab, and download the "beatsheet". You might need to read the book to get how to use it, but you get the idea.

The result feels like "the book of a film" - which was our aim. Films tend to conform to quite a rigid 3 Act structure, and also the novel is shortish (at 60,000 words) because it is film length.

Of course, that approach worked for an action/thriller - may not work for other genres.

mr curly

Hope that helps

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quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
What I like about your process is that when I write I find myself picturing the scenes in my head, like a film. I've thought that was hindering me as I'm writing a novel dammit, but if it can be used as a part of the process, then I'm definitey interested.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:
I also found that when you create a character, they often have lives of their own, and you get to know their back stories. Sometimes this means going back to rewrite, and/or the main plot changes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by deano:
I don't think I had a clear idea of the characters in my story, and they ended up doing all sorts of odd things that just distored the plot and it wasn't viable after a while.

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I did half page character profiles onteh 5 main characters before I started. This doesn't solve everything, and some of them got changed and added to as the novel progressed, but it's also true that I found the characters developing a life of their own and driving the story forward.

As said, writers find out what works for them and go for it.

mr curly
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Chapter bloody seven is finished

(It probably wouldn't have been if I hadn't made a public declaration here that it was going to be, so that worked then.)

I'm not sure it's particularly well written, but it is at least written. I think the reason I had such a problem with it was that it was the one chapter for which I had pretty much no idea what was going to happen. I needed my main character to find out some information but didn't know where he was going to get it from. I hate not knowing where I'm going.

In the end he sat down for a nice cup of tea with a very sweet old lady who told him all about it. That old lady was only originally meant to appear in one chapter earlier on but I've decided that I like her.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
5,00 words today. Good quality first draft words at that. Very happy, could have done more, but pretty tired.

4,000 word target for next writing day, Thursday, to finish this 12k word episode of my serial. Then 2 to go!

mr curly
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I think the only way forward in my ongoing what-happens-next problem is deciding what the characters most want to do and then have them all attempt to realise their objectives simultaneously.

One wants the wedding of the century, another wants to rob a tomb...the rest I'm not so sure about.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
I meet occasionally with a fellow writer to discuss projects and give feedback on work - and after a few reschedules, we met over frothy beverages and fried potato products this afternoon.

What a joy!

mr curly
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Have just taken a step up in the daily writing routine. My blog has expanded and spawned a new one, which is a fictional cricket diary by an imaginary member of the Australian cricket team. Cowriting with someone, 500 words a day between us.

As for today, I must finish this novella!

mr curly
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I'm having a wonder: how many words do you normally write in a day, when you have a day to write?

You see, when I did NaNo last (2 years ago, and the book which was part of it comes out in 2 weeks time) I managed the 1,667 words a day, but was virtually hallucinating by Day 20.

I'm going to be committing to write 2 roughly 100k novels back-to-back shortly, and I know that's going to take me around six months minimum, each. The notion I could write 4 or even 5k words a day seems simply... mad.
 

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Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :
 
Agreed.

Of course, it depends a lot on what you're writing. (Some) fiction is one thing: if I've got my character-ducks and plot-ducks in a row, and I get in the zone, I can knock out 2,000 words in a day easy. But then I hit a snag, and can eke out only a few sentences at a time for weeks on end.

Needless to say, I haven't published any of this stuff!

Most of my published writing is op/ed in nature, and it takes research, fact-checking, care, and precision with language (because so many readers seem determined to misconstrue what's being said). It can take me a week to craft a 300-word op-ed piece.
 

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Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :
 
Yes, I can write 2-3k of non-fiction in a day fairly easily but find writing fiction really slow and exhausting, if I'm on a roll, then 1,000 words is possible, sometimes though 100 is all I can manage and then there's the times I just can't manage to write anything at all.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I'm having a wonder: how many words do you normally write in a day, when you have a day to write?

You see, when I did NaNo last (2 years ago, and the book which was part of it comes out in 2 weeks time) I managed the 1,667 words a day, but was virtually hallucinating by Day 20.

I'm going to be committing to write 2 roughly 100k novels back-to-back shortly, and I know that's going to take me around six months minimum, each. The notion I could write 4 or even 5k words a day seems simply... mad.

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It varies hugely for me. If I have nothing else to do (which is rare) and the story is moving forward well with no major roadblocks, I don't find it hard to write 5K or more a day. I write really quickly (though a lot of it is crap that will have to be cut on a later draft). But it would be rare for me to have several days in a row where I had either the time or inclination to write at that pace.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I have around six thousand words of my book written at this point and have fleshed out a synopsis in my head of how it should go. That said, I have not touched it for more than a week although chapters are named and number and the ending is doable.

I have a lot of trouble writing dialogue and at this point the protagonist doesn't talk to anybody but his reader. I did ask some friends for input on a surreal scene, ala Murakami, and it was very well-received by one who even laughed out loud! My wife, however, lets me know that there is a great deal of work left to be done and two good paragraphs won't sell a first novel!

I am not ambitious: I'd just like to see twenty-five cents every time someone orders it for an e-reader such as Kindle or Nook. I have no vision of stacks of paperbacks printed at someone else's expense or a book tour. My brother-in-law is a moderately successful published author of some ten years standing and even he has never done a tour!


 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I plan to write more this weekend: I was a set carpenter on the opera last weekend which left me no time to write!
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
I've been inspired by a trio of writers who do this podcast. This episode deals with plotting and planning. (note, not work safe for language). These guys are really pushing it as far as productivity goes, and they say that the faster they write, the better they write - with lots of practice, of course. Worth listening to the rest of the episodes as well.

mr curly.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I'll have a listen to the podcast when I get back from the SciFi Weekender. Lots of authors there (find us, inevitably, at the bar), so I'll ask around as to their average wordage.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Much excitement. A box arrived from amazon yesterday with 5 proofs of the "real book" version of my first book. I've been through the process of creating the print-on-demand set up for CreateSpace all by myself, apart from using the cover I paid someone to design for me.

Once I've triple checked it, I'll approve the proof and it will be on sale straight away. When someone buys it, amazon prints one and posts it. No print runs, no stock management, no cost to me.

Meanwhile, family are out, better cut a few hundred words!

mr curly
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Has anyone thought about microfiction? I've started a 500 word a day humour project (it's a fictitious diary of a member of the Australian cricket team) in the last few weeks. It's wuite fun, cowriting so I only have to write every second day, and it seems to be finding an audience.

mr curly
 

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Posted by Kyzyl (# 374) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
This probably won't be helpful, but in nonfiction i use the old brainstorm/ slash n burn/ organize outline / turn it into text method. But I've made my living most of my life in writing / editing nonfic. Now that I'm contemplating the leap to fiction, I'm a bit at a loss.

I DID discover during my recent surgery that the fiction connections come much easier to me when I'm hopped up on hydromorphine (synthetic heroin). Somehow I don 't think that's a particularly helpful bit of info for me to have.

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But is does keep you in connection with the historic usage of recreational drugs by great literary figures!


[ 14. March 2013, 19:46: Message edited by: Kyzyl ]
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Indeed. Next H&A day, never mind the chocolate - send opium.

The Writing workshops are finished - which is more than can be said for the novel. Though it is not necessarily a lost cause, since the one thing I did learn is that reworking pays off (who knew?)
 

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Posted by hatless (# 3365) on :
 
I'm 40,000 words into a novel, my first. Isn't it a huge undertaking? A vast, sprawling thing. I have to keep a diary for my main character, a card index for everyone else, and a map of the fictional village where it's set.

I now work part time, so in theory I have two and a half days a week for writing. The half day is no use, and I tend to find the first of the other two gets me in the zone, and I can actually write on the second one. I did 3,000 words this week and was happy with that. A chance of finishing the first draft towards the end of the year.

I started off feeling frustrated that my characters wouldn't behave in the way I wanted them to. Now I like it. 'No surprise for the author, no surprise for the reader' said Robert Frost. Last week my main character's girlfriend dumped him. Neither he nor I saw that one coming.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Meh. I have what I think is a pretty good idea for another novel (to my immense surprise, a post-apocalyptic dystopia) that I'm not ready to write yet. I have the outlines of the idea but I know it isn't for now. It's going to be a sprawling, terrifying great thing and for now I'm working on something much simpler with a small number of characters and a pretty straightforward story arc. I'm already a good two thirds of the way into my first draft. But yesterday a load of brilliant bits and pieces for my totalitarian nightmare dropped into my head.

Trouble is, being so busy cooking up good ideas for a later project is making me less excited about the current project (which I think is actually a fairly worthwhile piece of writing). How do I stay focussed on what I'm writing now and finish the sucker without getting distracted by a project that I might actually get to in a couple of years time?
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Bunyan had the same problem. He describes the ideas for Pilgrim's Progress coming at him 'like sparks from a fire' while he was trying to get on with some sober tract stuff. Fortunately, it was all still there when he got back to it - but he doesn't say anything about his technique for finishing the work in hand.

Is there anything you could carry into the current piece? Any element of the unforeseen - even if it's going on in the background - which is both a part of his story and a foreshadowing of the new one?

Meanwhile, I dreamt about my novel - in which i am currently stuck plotwise - last night. However, since the settings, characters and situations were all completely different, it wasn't a terrific lot of direct help.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
I think it's worth taking time to jot down a few notes about the new project just to have it on paper. That may have the effect of preserving those good ideas so they'll be there when you have time for them, and also hopefully getting them down on paper where they won't be distracting you too much from the current project.

I really like Madeline L'Engle's image of the writer as a cook with several pots bubbling away on different parts of the stove, now flinging a piece of something into one, now into another, then bringing the one that's most ready to the front of the stove to be worked on. But there is a point at which you have to focus on one pot and keep all the others on simmer, or else you'll never actually finish a project (not a problem Madeline seemed to have, since she finished a staggering number of books).

I'm finally getting through editing the big block of words I wrote back in November for NaNoWriMo. I've done the research I need to do to correct the more hideous inaccuracies and fill some of the gaps; I've gone through the manuscript with a pen and made corrections, and now I'm looking forward to a long weekend to input those changes into the computer. Then I'm hoping over my Easter break to be able to get some new writing done!

In other news, the weekly YouTube videos I do about writing (link in sig) are approaching episode #25, and I've decided to do a Q&A video for my 25th vlog. I've gotten some good questions from people on YouTube, Facebook and Twitter, but I thought I'd throw it out to the writing community here on the Ship too -- does anyone have a question about writing that they'd like to have a fellow-writer answer in video format? If so, I'll try to include it in next Wednesday's video.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
School holidays (Easter Vacation, aka "Spring Break") start next week so I expect to write a few thousand words and maybe get one or two of the early chapters finished! Working on my other gig Wednesday, but if I am disciplined on Monday and Tuesday I should accomplish something...
 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
I have done NaNoWriMo a few times, but never managed to edit my novels. Now Mr C has deicded to make me a cover for my angel-based novel of last year and is getting quite vocal about how I need to edit it and get it in a readable state. Has anyone done NaNoEdMo? Did it work for you?

Cattyish, inherently a procrastinator.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
I've always ended up editing my NaNo novels (to a greater or lesser degree, depending on what their fate ended up being) but I've never done NaNoEdMo. For me editing is far less easy to fit into a "month-long challenge" structure; with NaNoWriMo you've got the built-in goal of word count to easily measure what progress you've made that day. A lot of my editing process involves cutting out words and it's harder to measure that in a "how much progress I've made today!" sense. But, like everything, NaNoEdMo does work for some people.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
My wife will be doing my editing. I hope to get some more writing done before the end of the month. I must incorporate dialogue!
 

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Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :
 
I know this is a bit of a daft question - and maybe the answer is "google it" - but I've written a novel. I've had reasonable feed back from the two people who have read it. I like it, and I think I'd read it.
It's now just sitting on my computer and I really don't know what to do with it now...or where to send it...or if to send it. Or what. I suppose, with working full time at other things I don't really have much time to devote to it (I wrote it when I wasunemployed) In a way, the writing process was the fun bit, and maybe I'm not that bothered - but I like the idea of others reading it...and buying it (if I'm brutally honest!)
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
You could google it. My understanding from my writers group is there seem to be various ways of getting it published (Don't worry I am not writing a novel, which should be good news for everyone, but others in the group are writing).

The next stage is to draft a synopsis. This is basically your sell for the novel. Draft is used deliberately as according where you send it you will need to adapt it. Then the options are:

• Contact a publisher, make sure they accept novels sent on spec (not all do) and that what you send is in line with what they want.
• Get an agent, this is much the same process but then the agent does the selling to the publishers.
• Enter competitions for first time novelists.

quote:

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
...I think the reason that I'm finding this bit hard work is that I find dialogue easier to write than description...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I'm waiting on the last reader to respond (basically editors/helpful friends) and then it goes up as an e-book.

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I finished the edits for Arcanum (the fantasy brick) which were, DG, accepted. I now have a fairly punishing schedule of copy-edits to see to in early summer before it's published in November.

I almost immediately started writing the next Petrovitch (#5). It's got very dark, very quickly, which is interesting. 13k in, out of a projected 100-120k.
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I feel guilty. I've left my heroine with a burgled flat, an unsolved murder and an impending mid life crisis. I'm really not much of a self-motivator. Back to the syllabi for summer writing courses I fear.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I may look into a writing course also. When I write, I get about 500, sometimes 1000, words in a day. Up to 11,000 +, but should write this weekend if I have a day off.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I think anything approaching 1000 words a day is good going. When I did NaNo, and the 1667 words a day, I started hallucinating by week 2.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I am preparing for NaNoWriMo, but expect to have 40,000 words going in: traditionally I have the month of August off and expect to get to that point well before the end of October...
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Done. Finished. 72,000 word compendium is out in the world.

Drawing breath before editing another project (it's a mess, so have been putting it off) then writing a 10,000 word short. Aiming to plot it out then write the first draft in a day.

mr curly
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
A 10,000 word first draft in a day is quite an impressive feat!

I'm doing about 1,000 words a day now working through the second half of my first draft. I haven't written anything new since shortly after NaNo; I've been doing a lot of research and reworking of what I already have but it's definitely time to get the rest of it written, so I have the whole summer holidays to revise.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
A 10,000 word first draft in a day is quite an impressive feat!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Keren-Happuch:
Am I allowed a little plug on here? My latest translation has just gone live on Kindle - see sig.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Evangeline:
Good luck, Interested in hearing how it goes Mr Curly.

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Very happy with the results. 194 copies of The Queensberry Rule sold over 3 days. Price was dropped from $4.99 to 0.99c for the promotion. Income about $70, of which 25% will be payable to Ereader News Today for the promotion - although it will be interesting to see how many sales they "claim" from clicks from their email/facebook versus how many came from increased visibility.

The book got into Top 100 list for Thrillers over the weekend, and Top 10 in subgenre of Technothrillers. Sales are continuing in ones and twos, probably from this visibility.

Hopefully a good proportion of those who've bought will actually read it, and some of them review the book - as against free promotions which seem to result in many books being grabbed but not read.

Will be trying to book in another of my books for the same deal - although it's hard to get picked as many authors are using this service.

Oh, and this is a US site with a US reader list. No sales at amazon.co.uk. Suggestions for promo services with UK reader base welcome.

mr curly
 

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Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :
 
Good one Mr C!

The impression that I get is ebooks are quite price sensitive. A friend of mine has been trad-published but also has a few manuscripts that went through editing but then the publisher didn't buy them, she's put them up on amazon at 99c and they've hit top 10 for romance, considering that's the biggest selling genre that's pretty good.

I suspect that people are going to be more positive about reviewing a book that only cost 99c but might be more picky if it costs them a few dollars.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I have finished my first draft!!


 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
That's great!

I am about a third of the way through my first draft. I have about a third of mine done. I need to add more dialogue, likely having the protagonist actually speak with someone who talks back instead of just delivering monologues! I do, however, have all 30 of the chapters plotted out. I also need to add one or two more surrealistic episodes, ala Haruki Murakami. He is my favourite author and the first bit of surrealism I wrote went down well with a university-educated colleague at my second job though not so good with a old friend who is not well-read. I may show that episode to my wife because she has read some Murakami.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 


My son has been shortlisted for The Kelpies Prize !!!



(There's a typo -he has been published "in" several anthologies, not "he has published several anthologies!!)
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I have finished my first draft!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Evangeline:
Good luck, Interested in hearing how it goes Mr Curly.

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Had another go with that book with Book Blast - not great results - more expensive, not enough sales to pay for cost of advertising.

Back with ENT with another of my book today. Will report back!

mr curly
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I put my latest story up on Smashwords a few days ago - a teenage fantasy called Quarter Day.
I did try the "proper publishing" route, and didn't quite make it, (I got some lovely rejection letters!), but I feel that the stories are good enough to share, so this seems the best way of making them public. So far, I've put three short novels up there, and earned the grand total of £6.91!
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I studied with a Writer's course but found the discipline incredibly difficult - there were strict guidelines at the end of each module and I had to fit my written assignments into those guidelines (they usually didn't fit very well). However, I then used the principles I learnt to write an article for the Ship magazine and to guide my son who wanted to write an article for a computer magazine, the payment for which well covered the cost of the writing course.

I discovered through the experience that I write much better when I can decide when, and how, I write. But it is useful to have some background knowledge (of how best to write, and also how publishers work) to underpin the creativity.

Recently I discovered writtenkitten.net which is a rather silly, but fun, way to encourage you to write and keep writing. It worked for me (but for how long I'm not sure!)
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
A real-life friend of mine, "E" on the Ship reminded me that I should not really start my novel before 1 November if I wish to be considered for NaNoWriMo. I have all of the chapters plotted, but none finished. I shall write 1100 words a day to finish by the end of the month......
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
My current project has drifted up to 70k words, but is pretty much finished.
Spent the day proofreading. Cross eyed!!
EBook out as soon as tidied up and cover done, then print in a month or so.
mr curly
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
My first draft has gone through one revision and been dispatched to various people for proofreading. Meanwhile I'm starting on something else.

In my new novel, one of the main characters is Mozart (yes, that Mozart). I am heading off to the library to do some research and I suspect I may be some time...
 

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Posted by kaytee (# 3482) on :
 
Mozart? That sounds intriguing.

I'm reading a draft of my friend's novel at the moment, and will write up a critique for him when I've finished. I'm finding it a very valuable experience. I've identified some things he can improve, but at the same time I'm really enjoying the story. It gives me hope for my own novel. Perhaps soon I will be brave enough to let him return the favour...
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Cricket themed ebook - on sale. Print version - waiting for proof copy to arrive next week.

Starting a new series of stories, about 10k words each. First one is out to beta readers (feedback great so far), second one humming along, already outlined ready to blitz it next week. Going to do three and then launch them singly but simultaneously. Unless I get impatient. Currently being held back as my sister's art class hasn't finished their digital design project for the covers.

mr curly
 

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Posted by kaytee (# 3482) on :
 
Mr Curly, you are prolific!

I have finally got my 2012 Nano novel to a state where I can allow a few people to read it. I think there is still a lot I could do to improve it. It will be interesting to see if my readers agree with me over what needs work.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Woohoo I have met the Right Person™

My new best friend is a person who just arrived in Paris who was previously a creative writing teacher at UCLA. Once I've typed up my revisions, she's going to read my manuscript for me and tell me if she thinks it's any good.

(somewhere between and )
 

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :
 
Eldest Son is currently living in the UK, doing research and writing. He has an article he wants to pitch to the Guardian, and he's aware that customs and expectations there may be different from what he's used to. Is there someone here who knows the ropes and would be willing to give him a hand? Thanks!
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
This is what The Guardian itself has to say.

It's not meant to sound too encouraging. I used (a long time ago) to work on a national newspaper, and used occasionally be sent to explain to some hopeful who turned up in Reception asking to speak to the editor that there was a wee bitty more to writing for a newspaper than they thought...

That said, we did sometimes take unsolicited stuff if it hit the button.

Is he thinking of a Features piece? If so, future content tends to be mapped out and pieces commissioned a fair bit in advance. A topical hook is good, but if it's something happening next week, not so much.
 

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :
 
The article he's pitching would be for the Science section. Feature, not breaking news.
 

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Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :
 
Is he associated with a university? If so, the uni press office may have experience with placing features in the nationals.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Um.... (see sig)


 

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Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :
 
Congratulations!
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
How are the first few days of NaNoWRiMo going?

Had intentions . . . .

mr curly
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
I'm not doing it this year -- I'm doing final (at least I hope they're final) revisions on my current book, hoping to get it to the publisher before the end of November (having told them early September, that seems like the least I can do). I'm a long way from being ready to think about a new book, but cheers to all who are doing it!
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I've got the chapters plotted and some writing done.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I'm not NaNoing this year: I'm almost at the end of a book (85k in, another 10k or so to go), and the house needs sorting before we descend into Christmas. Good luck to everyone who is, though.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Not for me this time.

I am (a) completely undersnowed (as a French colleague of mine once charmingly mixed up the English expression) and (b) nowhere near the stage where I can write anything of any length for my next project.

I am currently having quite a pleasant time sitting in the library reading about Mozart, though. And also going to the opera to listen to Mozart. All in the name of research, you understand. I think I may also need to go on a research trip to Vienna .

After that I need to start researching Stalinist Russia and 1960s Paris (in that order - one of my other main characters is a Russian opera singer who has fled the Soviets. I have to figure out exactly when she left before I know what year we're in). And then I might just about be ready to start actually writing something.

Good luck, Nano people.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I wrote 1000 words in the last three hours and did a shed-load of editing. I may write a little bit more later but I have to go into work. I seem to be able to write about 400 words or so per hour.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I am 600 words into my long-planned Book. I spent this afternoon wandering round a graveyard looking for my subject's parents' grave, and then standing in front of her childhood home, drinking in the scene. It was splendid. But I hope the next 600 words don't take so long to write.
 

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Posted by MrSponge2U (# 3076) on :
 
I’m doing Nano again. Even though I have another novel to finish editing, I had an idea and some things I wanted to explore as a possible sequel to the novel I am currenly editing. And a bunch of my friends are doing it, so I jumped in. I’m making surprisingly good progress, up to 23000 words so far. I might wind up with a trilogy when all is said and done.
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
It's good to see you, MrSponge2U!

Good luck with your writing and editing!
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I wrote 3000 words on Thursday for my novel: I got up very early and then taught school for three hours. I wrote more after work and now have a total of over 25,000 words! Halfway there!
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I have just this minute finished the 1st draft of hopefully the next novel. 94k. Am having wine.

I love you all, very, very much.
 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
I'm participating in NaNoWriMo and spent this evening talking about it on local internet radio. Most satisfactory as an experience; they played me "We Are the Champions".

Off to write about werewolves while the moon is full. It should keep Mr C happy.

Cattyish, behind with word count. Here's a link.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
I wasn't going to do NaNoWriMo officially but planned to make some progress on several projects with some concentrated effort.
It was not gone well.
mr curly
 

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Posted by Boadicea Trott (# 9621) on :
 
Tonight I have hit 46,000 words in this year's NaNo. I am happy, but would be even happier if I had a bar of chocolate with which to celebrate.

I think I will be self-disciplined and not allow myself chocolate until I reach the magic 50K mark...
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
If my target finishing time is 11.59 PM FMT / 5 PM PST Saturday, I need to need to crack on! I've got more than 10,000 words left to write!


 

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Posted by MrSponge2U (# 3076) on :
 
I made it to 50,000 words before the deadline. Hopefully some of them made sense.
 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
I won NaNoWriMo, but I'm still writing! For some reason this project is addictive despite me not being entirely sure of its merits.

Cattyish, off to sew something as an antidote to NaNo fever.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I fell a wee bit short of 'winning' NaNoWriMo this year but I went out to dinner with other contestants and met a few published authors. I am still tinkering with my book and plan to get it edited with the last 7,000 words that are needed. Maybe it shall be published as an E-book sometime next year, God willing! My lovely bride says she will participate in 2014, but I shall not as we just have the one real computer and her Nook does not process words...
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Yaaay!!

My friend the Ivy League creative writing teacher has finished reading my manuscript and she *loves* it. She says it just needs a few minor corrections to the grammar and punctuation and it’s ready for a literary agent!

Happy dance
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Yay!


 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I'm doing a little happy dance myself! I finally got time to sit down and do a re-write of a story that I've been meaning to get round to for months, and I'm now 3025 words in, with the plot tightened up considerably, and my young heroine in deep trouble! I forsee a few more days of typing in my near future.... so even worse things can happen to her!
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
46,000 words and counting. Just shipped off three excerpts from the little novel to my sister, including one which is over 2000 words! She studied to be an English professor and her husband is a published author. My nephew and niece are very bright also - waiting for their verdict with bated breath.


 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
Did you get constructive feedback Sir K?

Cattyish, enjoying a break.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Still I am waiting for feedback from my sister, her daughter and her husband. Wife marked up one of the excerpts and I believe that I fixed it well enough to be somewhat readable!
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
They're not all full length, and some are colections of others, but with the release today of my two latest cricket humour books, I've got 21 for sale on amazon.

Behind schedule on the next 3, so no resting on my proverbials.

mr curly
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Having had restricted internet access in the past fortnight has pushed me to look at some of the creative writing I did a while ago. The problem with working on something at the time if that you don’t get perspective on it; revisiting it, it seems fluent and works well so I've been happily expanding/polishing it. The nice thing is that it also proved to me that I haven’t lost the ability, which I thought had dried up. I have a few completed novels I never did anything with but am now thinking that perhaps I should before it’s too late, and there’s some unfinished stuff that would be worth developing.

In short, it’s not been a bad thing to have a break from the internet.
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
My one NY resolution was to write a poem a week. Have managed to keep it for two whole weeks! So of course I see the edition of 52 Poems in gold-tooled Skivetex on the shelf already.

But, like Ariel, I must go back to the most viable of my unfinished novels and dust it off.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
My sister does not agree with my wife. Much editing at several thousand more words are needed. I think I will talk about drumming a bit: taking lessons and learning to read drum music as well as struggling to develop a good practise ethic. I also need to put a song that I composed on the drums on paper and learn to orchestrate other instruments to make it complete and/or marketable!
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Pre-publication wobbles. It's the biggest, most ambitious thing I've ever done - 'brave' I believe is the euphemism - and I know it's good, but the internet knows no bounds for its capacity to pick up on one thing or another and hammer the author for a perceived misstep. I will undoubtedly be a Jew-hating misogynist by sun-down tomorrow.

It was easier in Dickens' day. He had to wait for the post...
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Three of the north east family are being published this month. My husband has written a chapter of a weighty academic tome. I have written a booklet on local history, which is being published through a fund which publishes worthy but not commercially viable local history. And my son is having the full book-launch, book signing and actually available in real books shops experience with his first book! I am going to live vicariously and enjoy my son's experience. So much more interesting than my own.
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Congrats all round.

But could you fix the link in your sig so it doesn't break the scroll lock?

Hostly thanks in advance.

Firenze
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Have put some stuff up on Wattpad recently. Not being One Direction fan fiction, it doesn't appear to be going that well.

mr curly
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Right. I am back from my holidays, my bosses are already driving me potty after less than an hour (although the most annoying one of all has knackered her ligaments skiing this weekend so she won’t be around to annoy me for a while…) and I’ve decided I’ve had enough of the rat race and I want to become rich and famous .

Today I am going to send my first agent query.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Another book ready for print on demand with CreateSpace.

I'm giving a talk at a "business network" lunch time meeting run by my denomination next week on self-publishing. Feeling like a writer!

mr curly
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
Way to go, Mr Curly!!
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
I survived.

Talk went OK. People were very interested in the self-publishing process, as well as in the broader issues of digitization of content and the impact of technology on how we read and process information.

I could do that again!

mr curly

PS I wrote 10,000 words this week. Going to aim for that from now on.

[ 22. March 2014, 18:18: Message edited by: Mr Curly ]
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
One of the things that puts me off about fiction publishing is the idea of a contract where you're contractually obliged to attend book signings and tours. As someone in full-time employment with only a set amount of holiday allowance this simply wouldn't be practical (and I'd hate it anyway).

How widespread is this sort of thing? I admit to not having looked that far but got the impression that publicity events like this were an expected part of fiction publishing. Certainly bookshops do seem to have an endless supply of authors doing the rounds.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
Ariel, if you get a contract that obligates you to go on book tours (at your publisher's expense), you will be one of the lucky few. The only people who really are "obligated" to do that are people who are published by major publishers who have decided that yours is one of their handful of "big" books this season.

Most writers are published with smaller presses who have far less money to throw around, and a "book tour" is unlikely. Publishers do encourage writers to do bookstore signings and readings where possible; such things can be arranged either by the publisher or (more commonly, if like many writers you feel your publisher is slacking off on the job) by the writer herself. These are unlikely to be so frequent or far-flung as to interfere with your day job. Best-case scenario, you might get sent to a book festival of some kind at your publisher's expense ... once.

So unless you're a very well-known author or have a surprising runaway bestseller, fitting the book tour into your life is not likely to be a big problem. A more realistic challenge is managing to set up some events in your local area that will get your name and your book's name out there, and hoping that if there's a cost involved in getting to the event or putting out a few snacks at it, your publisher will spring for the cost.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
An added point, Ariel -- readings and signings tend to be held on evenings and weekends so if they're in your local area they're not likely to be too inconvenient.

However, the fact that you would LIKE doing such events is a bigger issue -- because even if there's not the budget to support a big book tour, writers are expected to make themselves available for some kind of self-promotion. I'm not sure how "I just don't want to do readings, signings or interviews" would go over with a publisher. The problem they face is usually the opposite -- writers pestering the publisher to provide them with MORE promotional opportunities, rather than writers trying to get out of doing things.

Sorry for any note of bitterness about the publishing industry that may have crept into my replies! It's a tiring gig sometimes.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Contracts are negotiable. If you get to that stage, your agent will presumably be aware of how you feel and can negotiate some sort of compromise.
 

---

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
One of the things that puts me off about fiction publishing is the idea of a contract where you're contractually obliged to attend book signings and tours. As someone in full-time employment with only a set amount of holiday allowance this simply wouldn't be practical (and I'd hate it anyway).

How widespread is this sort of thing? I admit to not having looked that far but got the impression that publicity events like this were an expected part of fiction publishing. Certainly bookshops do seem to have an endless supply of authors doing the rounds.

---

There's a clause which says I need to promote the book and agree to reasonable requests. In practice, unless you're the next Rowling or Martin, you're not being 'sent' anywhere you don't want to go, and if you are, then you get to pick and choose.

Authors are doing events off their own back. I'm doing one in London on 10/4, and I'm getting my travel paid (which is nice) but nothing else. I've never been on a book tour or anything like that - and I'm an award-winning author with a Big 4/5 publisher.

Don't sweat it.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I would like to beg your indulgence to be absurdly excited for a moment. I may?

Woooooohoooooooo

A top literary agency with famous people on their client list (including one of absolute favourite writers) has just requested my full manuscript!!!!

Yippeeee!!! My writing isn't crap!



(I know, it's far too early to be getting carried away, but it still made my day .)
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Hearty congratulations! It is often harder to get a good agent than it is to find a publisher.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Hurray!
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
Wow, la vie! That is wonderful news!
(Whatever your book, I want one!)
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 

 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
One of the things that puts me off about fiction publishing is the idea of a contract where you're contractually obliged to attend book signings and tours. As someone in full-time employment with only a set amount of holiday allowance this simply wouldn't be practical (and I'd hate it anyway).

How widespread is this sort of thing? I admit to not having looked that far but got the impression that publicity events like this were an expected part of fiction publishing. Certainly bookshops do seem to have an endless supply of authors doing the rounds.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
One of the things that puts me off about fiction publishing is the idea of a contract where you're contractually obliged to attend book signings and tours. [...]
How widespread is this sort of thing?

---

You'd be lucky to get within a hundred miles of such a thing. The typical publicity budget for a new book by an unknown author is somewhere between zero and not very much.

Yes, loads of autors try to set up talks and signings and so on, or go to libraries and conferences and conventions, but they do thatoff their own bat because they want to sell copies of their book. Far from forcing them to do it the chances are the publishers will be ignoring most of them and concentrating what budget they have on whoever is supposed to be this year's Big Thing.

[ 28. March 2014, 14:09: Message edited by: ken ]
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Ken is precisely right. If by any remote and distant chance your publisher insists upon a PR tour and sending you to signings, SAY YES. It is at least as rare as a unicorn appearing in your front garden.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
For those who are London/SE England based, I'm appearing (as if by magic!) at Blackwells Charing Cross next Thursday (10th) at 6pm for an evening of 'revolutionary fantasy'. I'll be sharing the stage with Mark Alder - staunch atheist - for a discussion about the divine right of kings, religion both as a means of social control and a catalyst for change, and we'll undoubtedly be leading the gathered crowds in a rendition of the Red Flag.

Link here. There may be a pub involved afterwards...
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:

Link here. There may be a pub involved afterwards...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
.... I’ve decided I’ve had enough of the rat race and I want to become rich and famous .

...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
According to a British government study, writers really enjoy their work and earn on average about $42,000 US: should be enough to help support a couple of empty-nesters with a daughter who is fully independent!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
For those who are London/SE England based, I'm appearing (as if by magic!) at Blackwells Charing Cross next Thursday (10th) at 6pm for an evening of 'revolutionary fantasy'. I'll be sharing the stage with Mark Alder - staunch atheist - for a discussion about the divine right of kings, religion both as a means of social control and a catalyst for change, and we'll undoubtedly be leading the gathered crowds in a rendition of the Red Flag.

Link here. There may be a pub involved afterwards...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
.... I’ve decided I’ve had enough of the rat race and I want to become rich and famous .

...

---

My advice: writing books is unlikely to result in either rich or famous, though it can be rewarding in other ways.

---

Party-pooper

I wasn’t really being serious – I know that most writers don’t make enough to live on. But a girl can dream can’t she? Aim for the stars and you might hit the moon and all that. And I have a big-shot literary agency currently reading my book. So there I'm currently in the "nothing to lose" stage of the process.

That said, I genuinely do hate my job at times and have no intention of staying in it forever. My plan B is to get married and become a kept woman*, and then whatever I can make from writing will be a handy plus.

*I know, I know… FWIW, my boyfriend has scraped me up sufficient times after a mauling by the bosses that it was originally him that suggested this, not me – because he wants his chérie not to be miserable anymore. Works for me.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I don't care about being rich or famous. I have enough to live on and I don't want the pressures that celebrity would bring. I've been writing since I was about 13, and I write the kinds of things that I want to read; if other people want to read them, that's a bonus, but I don’t expect it.

I went through writer's block for a few years when I could only stare at a blank screen, everything fizzled out and I wondered if I'd lost the knack. But I seem to have been uncorked this year and am currently rewriting a historical novel set in ancient Rome and London that I wrote years ago and shelved.

I spent about four years researching and writing it in those days; there were various field trips to places of interest, lots of libraries and bookshops, and a rapid acquiring of some of the obscurer minutiae of daily life in that era. I even joined the Association for Roman Archaeology; the membership card gave me discounted access to some sites. Huge fun – the discoveries sometimes sent me off on unexpected paths, and the plot took a twist I hadn't expected. I got a pretty good immersion in the feel of life in Nero's day, and you can't write convincingly unless you immerse yourself in an era. It's the little giveaway details that make it.

I have to say it's good to be back and able to express myself fluently again.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
There is no point in writing stuff you do not like. If you did write stuff you disliked, you could without very much difficulty find a way to make it pay: write advertising copy, legal briefs, HR memos, press releases for sleazy politicians, etc. They would pay you salary and benefits!
So if you are writing a novel in your spare time, at the absolute minimum it had better delight you, the author. This is the argument against trying to hop onto whatever the latest trend is in fiction (50 Shades, zombies, etc.) -- if you don't like whips or zombies from the outset, then writing about them is like laboring at the oar.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
You have this choice (dilemma?) in any endeavour. Do you want to make money or do you want to do it for fun? If you can do both, you're probably one-in-a-hundred, possibly a thousand, so count your blessings and pay your taxes!
 

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Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :
 
Put me in the not-in-this-for-money category. But I'm not doing it for fun, either. I'm doing it because I can't seem to think of life without writing.

And when inspiration doesn't allow me to create something new, I work on gathering poems together into book manuscripts (one of which is out there looking for a home). I've heard this call poebiz

Creating a manuscript of poems involves more than just lumping them together. There needs to be a thematic flow. I find that this task is satisfying in its own way.

Need to add that I am retired, but not at all at loose ends. I still have volunteer work, obligations with my elderly parents, etc. So dedicating time is still an issue.

as ever, copy editing is not my strong suit.

sabine

[ 09. April 2014, 19:32: Message edited by: sabine ]
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is no point in writing stuff you do not like.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
Very elegant, Trudy!

A friend of mine phoned me last week and described how he had fallen off a horse - he's still limping, six weeks later.
Does it make me a bad person that, almost as soon as I put the phone down, I put the computer on and re-wrote a scene where one of my characters fell off her horse? It's now much more realistic, and she has exactly the sort of injuries I was hoping for (in the shape of pulled muscles down one side).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Hmm. It could be a BRIDGE AT SAN LUIS REY kind of situation, in which an entire novel's worth of stuff happens in the tiny interval between the catching fire and the perishing of smoke inhalation. However, I myself would incline towards a fantasy solution. A small dragon appears, inhales the flames, and then says, "OK, toots, now you owe me one."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
I really struggle to kill any of mine off. I did it once and it was so emotionally harrowing that I never repeated it.

---

Apparently I am more capricious than you. In my next novel (that I really, really need to get on with doing some more work on ), I am going to kill off the love interest. Basically I started sketching it out and then got to the point where I thought ‘I’m getting a bit bored with this story’. I figured this was a very bad sign - I mean, if I'm not interested in it anymore, what are the chances a reader will be? - and started thinking about what I could do to pep the story up. The idea dropped into my head immediately: Kill N .

N gets run over by a truck, V is devastated, and suddenly the story takes off again in a much sadder but more interesting direction.

I don’t feel sorry in the slightest. She’s a nice girl and I was quite fond of her, but I needed her sacrifice.
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I had a couple of generic men at arms escorting my main character on a journey - and decided that, if they were going to be together for several days on the road, they would get to know each other fairly well, so they stopped being generic and got names and personalities.
Later in the book, I had to kill them in an ambush so that my main character could make her getaway.
So at least they were one step up from red shirts!
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
There are a couple of classic hardy perennial ways to get the plot going, and indeed one is to kill somebody. (Sex is the other main choice.)

I am famously hard on my characters. Once I drew up a list of everything that happened to my hero in the last books; it was very long and sanguinary.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Finished Mr. Curly's newest book and liked it. Yesterday. More Later.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Oh dear ... I have just written 3,618 words (excluding footnotes) on one verse in Hebrews (2:17). This book could be a little longer than my last (and probably won't be published if that rate of expansion keeps up!).
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
A second novel I am attempting is a complete work of fantasy and it has a new sort of character: there is a college instructor who is a vampire. Obviously, he only teaches night classes. Where is the best place to research vampires? Should I re-read Dracula? Should I re-watch Nosferatu? Do I need to put zombies into it also if I want it to appeal to young adults????
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Aren't zombies a bit over? The TV schedules seem to be positively dripping with zombies. We've had Jane Austen and zombies. I'm not sure vampires aren't all Twilighted out as well.

Maybe they should be rested in favour of a few manticores or bunyips, rokurokubi, spriggans or werecats.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
As a bemused mother of teens who are into the whole zombie genre, it seems to have become very geeky and technical.
 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
I was wearing a zombie hunter t-shirt at Christmas (I'd bought it for J but it was too small) and my dad had a full-on rant about young people today being obsessed with the undead. He actually seemed to have turned into an old-time brimstone preacher for a moment.

I delivered some copies of Attack of the Giant Robot Chickens this week and will hand over the third one today. It's making me a cool auntie!

Cattyish, off to see some godchildren.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I would not put zombies in unless the work HAS to have zombies. This goes for everything, by the way. Unless it HAS to have guns, HAS to have puppies, HAS to have a thunderstorm, it should not be there.
The novel should be like an automobile engine -- all the parts are necessary to work together to drive the thing forward. Everything that is not doing work should be tossed.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
That's just as well: I don't really need the zombies and I think the vampire character my not become fully-developed anyway. I still am not sure if I want to try NaNoWriMo again this year: we have only one computer and my wife is actively considering it.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Just published my 25th title on amazon, a 10,000 word novella. Aiming for 2 more this month, including the novel that Sir Kevin kindly read - cover and a last proof-read to go. (Does anyone else never tire of the poof-read joke?)

mr curly
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Will the title stick? Did you like my reasoning for keeping it?
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Will the title stick? Did you like my reasoning for keeping it?

---

The title has been the subject of much discussion this week, but is remaining the same ("Warm Honey") almost in spite of Sir K's reasoning for keeping it the same.

Interesting that one alternative title discussed ("The Bookshop") has spawned an idea for a sequel - which has us quite excited.

We've narrowed down the cover ideas to one concept, which is being refined over next few days. One more proofread is in process, should be released next week.

mr curly
 

---

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I've put something up on my blog (and over on Facebook) regarding the ongoing Amazon/Hachette furore.

Here
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Over at the Book View Cafe blog they are doing Story Excerpt Sunday. And this week's offering is a bit of my science fiction novel, REVISE THE WORLD. It is not from the first chapter of the work, so I am betting that nobody reading this bit alone can identify the famous historical hero...
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Bigshot literary agency finally got back to me after reading my full manuscript and said no.

This is my disappointed face -->

(Also got a form rejection from another agency at the same time. I feel like that line out of Chicago: "Just one giant world of 'no'")
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
Submitting to agents will definitely make you feel like that. I got over 100 rejections for one MS I was shopping around to agents. It's still unpublished, and I'm still unagented and publishing other books with a small local press, so there aren't always happy endings for every project -- but there are happy endings often enough that it's well worth persevering!!
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
If it is any comfort, reflect that the power and usefulness of agents erodes daily.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Should. Be. Writing.
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
My interview on the Rocking Self Publishing Podcast is now online here , if you want to hear me talk for an hour about writing etc.

mr curly
 

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Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Was shooting for 10 new titles this 6 months, only got to 9. On a 2week winter break now, resuming work on #10 when I get back.

mr curly
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I began a novel in March; it is probably done although some tinkering is going to occur. It is wildly imprudent to begin a sequel without finding a home for the first one, but drat it, a couple thousand words were written today.
 

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Posted by Tukai (# 12960) on :
 
I don't suppose many of you fiction writers have a co-author, but such joint authorship is the norm in my field of science writing.

Co-authorships have benefits but also can cause much angst. Like marriage, I suppose, especially as a substanital book can take a few years from conception to "birth" !

For my current book, which has taken a good 5 years from signing the contract to actual publication, the benefits have been a sharing of the work-load with my coauthor (J) and myself dividing producing first drafts of the various chapters (which are only loosely connected with each other) according to our complementary subject expertise. The other author would then critique and redraft that chapter. Email greatly helps this process along.

At least that was the idea, but somehow, as J seemed for the first few years to be giving little attention to this compared to his other (better-paying ) projects, it ended up being me who did the first draft of 3/4 of the chapters. That put us behind schedule, but J blithely assured the publisher that we could still meet the originally contracted submission date. With >6 months to go, I calculated from experience of our previous book how long each chapter took to move to the next draft, allowing for the complexities of diagrams and mathematics, which all require checking in detail. And I knew that I was already going at the maximum pace I could sustain with my continuing health issues. For the next few months I kept telling him to tell the publisher that we would need an extension of time. But,at a meeting with only 3 months to go, the publisher pushed the marketing importance to them of getting our book out that year rather than later, and J's unrealistic optimism led him to blithely assure them in that all was on track . I was not at the meeting as it was on the far side of the world, but when I saw the minutes a few weeks later , I [literally] nearly had a second heart attack. After a day to let my blood pressure return to normal, I phoned J to ask why he had made this commitment despite my repeatedly urging him not to do so. It went in one ear and out the other, so in desperation I phoned the publisher's editor (at her home because of time zone differences) to tell her what the real situation was, she agreed to a 12 month extension, despite the loss in sales it would bring. So then J berated me to ask why I did this, and disclaimed all knowledge of my clear and repeated warnings.

It is this inability to remember any past correspondence and to blithely insist that we don't have to worry about such red tape as copyright (because "he ignores it on his own website and no-one questions it") that annoys the hell out of me, even though he does bring much positive to the collaboration.
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I just realised today why my present story isn't working. It's starring the wrong sister. The sister who I thought was a supporting character should actually be the heroine. So it's back to the beginning to re-write from her point of view, which should make for a much better story (lots of work, but a better story).
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Tukai:
I don't suppose many of you fiction writers have a co-author, but such joint authorship is the norm in my field of science writing.

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quote:

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It is wildly imprudent to begin a sequel without finding a home for the first one, but drat it, a couple thousand words were written today.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:

If you write for the market, you are very possibly writing about what you are less interested in. And if you want to do that, there are tons more lucrative venues. Write press releases, advertising copy, legal briefs, legislative summaries. Somebody will pay you to do this! With benefits! You will make vastly more than you ever will from fiction!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Curly:
Anyone thinking about a "target audience" as they write?

mr curly

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Curly:
Anyone thinking about a "target audience" as they write?

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quote:

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Originally posted by North East Quine:
My target audience ideally would be "people like me." Except that, given my actual writing ability, it has to be "people like me, but with a higher boredom threshold."

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quote:

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I am on the downhill run for the World Science Fiction Convention over here in the Docklands (saw Gussie at a distance yesterday but could not beat through the scrum to speak to her).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Looking forward to NaNoWriMo in about 9 or 10 weeks...

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quote:

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My son has been told that if he ever publishes a novel, he'll have to use a pen-name because his real name is too close to that of a Famous Author. Is this true? Is there a problem with real names when they're similar to famous names?

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quote:

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I suppose the problem would be reader disappointment as they reached eagerly for book by Hilaire Mantel, only to find a sensitive evocation of teenage angst in Aberdeenshire instead of a hefty chunk of Tudor skulduggery.

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quote:

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I suspect someone wanting to read one of the Famous Author's warm and gently witty books might be dismayed to read about a bloodbath involving sword fights and mutant squirrels....

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quote:

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While at the same time confusing the actual seekers after squirrel ultraviolence. So best pick a name to alert them to a new kid on the block - Genghiz Nutkin?

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quote:

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This is my most stress-free NaNo in years. I've spent the last three Novembers nagging my son to ignore NaNo, focus on his schoolwork, and go to bed before 3am. Not to mention the struggle to get him out of bed and onto the school bus after a NaNo all-nighter. Now he's at University, doing NaNo again, but what I can't see can't harm me. Bliss.

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All that maternal effort to steer him away from writing books - wasted!
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
North East Quine, that is just awesome!!
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Thanks, jedijudy!

The Guardian has picked up on the similarity in names. Perhaps my Alexander should have listened to Firenze and called himself Genghiz Nutkin after all.

[ 28. August 2014, 12:26: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I'm reading The Wonder Book by Jeff Van der Meer, a writing manual of sorts that was nominated for the Hugos this year. It's one of the best books about writing that I've read, and that includes Stephen King's On Writing. I've been taking notes, and improving the story I'm writing at the moment.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Cover me, I'm going in! Sent manuscripts to three different editors, at three different publishing houses. Crossing all my fingers, and soliciting good wishes from everybody!
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Good luck, Brenda!
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I am down in the dumps. No one wants my novel. The latest round haven’t even have the courtesy to reply and tell me to bugger off. This trying to get published thing was fun when I started. Bored now.

Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I’m going to go and eat worms.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
I have a friend, she has written a magnificent novel. It is not only me who thinks that it is the whole of the writers group we go to. There are several good novels written by members of the group, but this is at least a level higher. However, she is struggling to get it published, possibly because it does not fit a standard genre.

In other words getting published sucks as task to be done until you succeed and this is not a reflection on the quality of your written material.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by North East Quine:
Thanks, jedijudy!

The Guardian has picked up on the similarity in names. Perhaps my Alexander should have listened to Firenze and called himself Genghiz Nutkin after all.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
In other words getting published sucks as task to be done until you succeed and this is not a reflection on the quality of your written material.

Jengie

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Self-publish it. Get it out there.
Self-published ebooks are the new query letter.

mr curly
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
There is a large can of worms we could open about self pub and how to do it. But, in summary, I will say that when you SB you are stepping into a professional arena. Therefore, be professional. Have that work in professional shape; have a decent cover with good cover design; get all your rights and permissions issues in a row.
When you SB you essentially take on all the tasks that Harper & Row or Random House will do. Plan to do them.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Sounds scary! My wife is a published author, but not a novelist. She did reviews of several young adult books for an academic journal run by one of her professors when she was in grad school two years ago. She would like to do NaNoWriMo sometime, but not this year as she is too busy teaching English language and literature to thirteen-year-olds at a local school. I plan to start research tomorrow or Friday to see if I can find out enough about Mars to make the last part of my planned novel make sense. I have most characters established and some scenes plotted...
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
You are wrestling with a different bear. Writing it is a separate and previous issue, bristling with its own toothy difficulties.
If you want to think about SP, google on it -- there are mountains of tips and websites full of advice.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
I'd read your novel La Vie en Rouge ...



It is tricky, though. I recently read a very good first novel which isn't self-published but e-published but which the author tells me isn't selling very well at the moment ... these things are an uphill struggle ...

But worth doing for all that.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
Getting traditionally published is a hard, difficult and discouraging process. It doesn't always pay off, but when it does, it can be wonderful. Self-publishing can be good too but it's quite a different thing and for most people it does not provide a stepping-stone to traditional publishing -- it's going off in another direction on a different path. Think about your goals and what you want for your writing, and if what you really want is to find a traditional publisher, then persevere, persevere, persevere. And yeah, take breaks every so often to whine about how it sucks, because it really, really does.
 

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Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :
 
Many of my friends are authors, (mostly in women's fiction covering suspense/crime/romance/historical stuff/contemporary women's stories) traditionally published and a few are hybrid authors, having sold books through traditional publishers and then self-published via e-books.

My personal observations (which others may obviously disagree with or may have different observations, particularly in different genres) is that unless your self-published book/s sells well then it/they can be a liability in trying to sell a book to a trad. publisher.

Without a marketing platform, selling your self-published stuff can be exceedingly difficult.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
That is an important point. If you self-publish a work, then it is published. A traditional publisher is unlikely to pick it up (unless it is a monster best-seller, or unless you become famous in some other way. I suggest sleeping with a member of the Royal Family and then Telling All if you want to pursue this avenue.)
If you look at a publishing contract, it will say what rights the traditional publisher is purchasing. Usually it is First World Rights, or First American Rights, or First English Language Rights -- something like that. The key word here is 'first'. They're paying for the first skim off the milk pan, for the first slice of the cake. They are, as it were, paying for the work's virginity -- elsewhere on SoF is a thread on this very subject. If you use the First Rights in self publishing, they are not available to sell to someone else. You may only sell Second Rights.
 

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Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :
 
Good point Brenda, I was assuming that people were trying to sell subsequent books to traditional publishers, not reselling an existing publication. Just as if your first book/s don't sell well, publishers won't buy anymore, if your self-published books don't sell then publishers won't be rushing to buy a new work.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Thanks Trudy.

In that case:

THIS SUCKS THIS SUCKS THIS SUCKS THIS SUCKS

This whole thing may qualify for "most soul-destroying process in the Universe" <sigh>

(This sucks )
 

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Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
NEQ:

quote:

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The Guardian has picked up on the similarity in names. Perhaps my Alexander should have listened to Firenze and called himself Genghiz Nutkin after all.

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Wow! Congratulations to the North East Loon. I've been looking out for his book in the local Waterstones, but maybe I should just order it from Amazon.

Fingers crossed for him...

for la vie en rouge. Other Half has been trying to sell his work for years. Hang in there. Would it help to think of the process as a job search?

[ 11. September 2014, 12:59: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Alas, La Vie. If it is any help to you, we have all been there. Rare indeed is the writer who can sell every work she ever pens. (And if she can, sometimes she is unwise to do it; there are works better left in the trunk.)
It helps to think of writing as one of all the other fine arts: ballet, playing the bassoon, painting on gesso, acting on stage. The US Department of Labor produces many statistical tables, and one of them is All Professions By Income. At the very tip-top of this table is captains of industry and CEOs -- Bill Gates, the chairman of General Motors, that kind of person. At the absolute bottom is migrant farm workers who pick lettuce. And do you know who is next up the list, from the migrant farm workers? Yes, it is freelance writers.
Or, consider the Screen Actors Guild. This is the movie actors' union; all actors who speak a line on the screen are members. (Everyone who is just standing in the crowd is an extra.) If you look at, say, Angelina Jolie or Harrison Ford, they are doing very well indeed. You say, I would like to be like Harrison Ford, rich enough to own millions of acres in Wyoming! But then you can go and look at the SAG member; their average income is $5000 a year. This qualifies you for welfare. And this number averages in Angelina Jolie and Harrison Ford, so the lowliest actor is making way, way less than that.
So: writing is like that. You had better be doing it for love, because you're unlikely to ever get money for it.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
You need damn good marketing IMHO to sell books, especially fiction. And unless you are very savvy indeed and have lots of time on your hands, your best bet is a traditional publisher who will do it (mostly) for you.

But that means getting in the door--which means either good luck or marketing. Which means probably finding an agent, who will do the footwork for you. Maybe that's where you need to be starting? Good agents have contacts and know who is looking for what. Plus publishers know that anything coming from an agent is likely to be a cut above the slush pile stuff, as an agent won't take on anything s/he doesn't think s/he can sell.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
That's the reason why I'm trying to place this trilogy with a traditional publisher. Even though I have a powerful ebook outlet to hand (www.bookviewcafe.com) I have what could be a best-seller on my hands here, and to leverage this I need all the resources of a large publishing house.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Just to reiterate. Most authors I know would rather die (literally, rather die) than promote their book in anything but a self-deprecating, stare-at-their-own-shoes sort of way.

If you're one of those people, go ahead and self-publish, but don't expect stellar results.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Mmm. This depends upon your genre. For certain areas of literature (romance novels is the best example) there is a ready-made channel of fans, supporters and buyers. Science fiction and fantasy also have a powerful fandom. A bit of promotion is easier in these cases, because there's already a structure, a place to go.

Where you're really in trouble is if you've written a straight literary novel. No built-in fan base to tap.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Well, yes and no. Most of the writers I know are SF and F writers, and a goodly proportion of them would rather pluck their eyes out than try and get someone to buy their book.

Of course, adding alcohol turns us all into witty raconteurs who could sell bridges to unsuspecting Americans...

But broadly speaking, being able to write a good book, and being able to sell that good book, are two entirely different skill sets.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Oh, for sure. And being able to write a good book is no guarantee of being able to read one's work out loud in any passable way. (JRR Tolkien was famously poor at this.)
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Oh dear Lord yes.

I can do it passably. At least, I thought I could do it passably, and then the audio book of Equations of Life came out, voiced by a proper actor...


 

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Posted by Amika (# 15785) on :
 
I've had two books traditionally published by a small publisher but the experience has been such a let-down that I've gone ahead and self-published my third. My experience of self-publishing (via Amazon) has been that it's a better deal for me than the trad-pub situation.

My publisher did not do any promotion, nor did it go to great lengths for cover art, and there were so many other frustrations that, apart from the knowledge that someone had liked my work enough to publish it, I'm convinced self-publishing is the better way for me.

So far my self-published novel has made more money in Kindle sales than the previous two novels put together, and yes, I am one of those shy writers who hates self-promotion and has no idea how to go about marketing her books. All I know is that my publishers did less than I do!

I know of one writer who had been very sceptical of self-publishing but who on having the rights to his earlier (very poor selling) books returned to him, put out one of them on Amazon under a new title and has now, in just two months, sold 1,500 Kindle copies. Yes he had kept the price low, but even so, that's good going.
 

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Posted by Tukai (# 12960) on :
 
Cracked the "champagne" * tonight to celebrate the end of 4 weeks of intensive proof-reading.

Since the book in question is a university -level science textbook of ~800 pages with lots of maths and diagrams, the task was indeed a big one - the more so as the publisher mislaid some key supporting documents, resulting in several hundred more corrections to the maths than should have been necessary. TITH! But they did apologise and allocate us an extra week for proof-reading !

All that remains now is for my co-author on the far side of the world to deliver the marked-up proof set to the publisher, after which it should be clear sailing to what we hope will be big sales in the new year.

* Actually it was Australian "methode tradionelle" sparkling, but very welcome nevertheless.
 

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