Thread: Comics fins Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Hi! Any other comics fans here? * 'm mainly Marvel and DC with some Dark Horse and Dynamite, though this is kind of general, but * thought * 'd see who else there is...

[ 18. September 2014, 08:24: Message edited by: Firenze ]
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
Marvel girl! Not much time for DC, I like some Dark Horse. I really enjoyed Image back when they first came out, but I've not really been much of a reader in recent years. (grown-up life, blah blah blah)

our dear departed ken was a marvel man, as well.

My tastes run pretty mundane. I collected Spidey since I was about 6 until about 30. Also read a lot of X-Men (and various spinoffs) and I was a huge Alpha Flight fan, but it used to be hard to get those. Do they even exist anymore?
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Alpha Flight does indeed still exist, and is currently guest-starring in the Amazing X-Men storyline, "World War Wendigo."

I like both DC and Marvel traditionally, though I hate the New 52 over at DC and only like a few of those in spite of it, pretty much based on who the authors are.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I like weird indie stuff. Fantagraphics has put out a treasure of the old "Love and Rockets" comics form the late 80's -90's and I am getting sucked back into them all over again.
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Drawn and Quarterly, Pantheon, and some weird self-published indie stuff for me. SPX is one of my favorite weekends of the year. As for particulars, Chris Ware, Alison Bechdel, and Craig Thompson are good standbys; Ulli Lust's Today is the Last Day of the Rest of Your Life is an unusually good autobio comic (usually don't like those), and Asterios Polyp has such a great architectonic quality to its multi-layered drawings that it's worth seeking out. I've been meaning to find more Johan Sfaar and Art Speigelman, but I'm a cheapskate who likes abusing the local library collections, and there's only so much of either they have. Also need to start in on that Bone omnibus I got at the last SPX…

Sigh. You'd think it'd be even more incentive for me to finally finish reading about Hegel's religion, right?
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I have been a comics fan for decades, and have a very nearly complete Batman collection (DETECTIVE, BATMAN, etc.) that runs back to the 1970s. Unfortunately I have recently fallen off the sled, and am thinking of selling my entire collection on Ebay.
However, I still adore Modesty Blaise.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:
Drawn and Quarterly, Pantheon, and some weird self-published indie stuff for me. SPX is one of my favorite weekends of the year. As for particulars, Chris Ware, Alison Bechdel, and Craig Thompson are good standbys; Ulli Lust's Today is the Last Day of the Rest of Your Life is an unusually good autobio comic (usually don't like those), and Asterios Polyp has such a great architectonic quality to its multi-layered drawings that it's worth seeking out. I've been meaning to find more Johan Sfaar and Art Speigelman, but I'm a cheapskate who likes abusing the local library collections, and there's only so much of either they have. Also need to start in on that Bone omnibus I got at the last SPX…

Sigh. You'd think it'd be even more incentive for me to finally finish reading about Hegel's religion, right?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:

However, I still adore Modesty Blaise.

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quote:

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Originally posted by RooK:
It feels like the quality of writing in some ongoing web comics just utterly slays the over-hyped print stuff, and that's where most of my comic interest remains. Order of the Stick and Sluggy Freelance being a couple stand-out examples.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I like weird indie stuff. Fantagraphics has put out a treasure of the old "Love and Rockets" comics form the late 80's -90's and I am getting sucked back into them all over again.

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Fantagraphics! I used to live right up the street from one of their offices in Seattle. I had a disastrous interview with them once...(hey! how was I supposed to know NOT to dress up in a business suit?!) and some of my friends work there and have their stuff published by Fantagraphics. I love Love and Rockets and anything by Chris Ware.

I've loved Spiderman since I was about ten. I love Wonder Woman and some Batman/Dark Knight stuff. Ironman, Thor, X-Men.

I also had every single issue of the "V for Vendetta" series, almost all of the Sandman/Death series from Vertigo. Yep, I'm a nerd!
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Patdys:
Sandman, death, watchmen, V for vendetta grace my shelves.
As do Calvin and Hobbes, Gary Larson

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yes! all of these. as well as Mutts and Get Fuzzy. and Maus!

also - dare I admit it? I was a crazy Conan and Sonja fan as a kid, and obsessive - OBSESSIVE! - about Elfquest. I had all of the graphic novels and they were worn out. I honestly don't know what happened to them, they disappeared somewhere in one of my many moves.

I... ... my first tattoo came from Elfquest.

Don't laugh! I was young. and it's aged very well. so huh.
 

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Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :
 
I've come close to buying Maus several times. Is it good, or just too bleak? or both?
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
both.

fabulous. you will cry, but it's okay. get it.
 

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Posted by BessHiggs (# 15176) on :
 
I collect the Doc Savage comics, as well as the books. Used to haunt comic book stores searching for them...
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
I think Marvel's doing really well right now overall, but I'm focused mainly on the writers--a whole bunch of whom (not all) were doing great stuff at DC a few years ago (pre-New 52).
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by BessHiggs:
I collect the Doc Savage comics, as well as the books. Used to haunt comic book stores searching for them...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I don't read many comic books and have lost track of the Marvel/DC universes. I do like Alison Bechdel and also Girl Genius. I did like Sandman and Watchmen. Maus is very good if depressing. I do plan to pick up the locus award comic which is about Dr Who going to a Science Fiction Convention.

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Damn!

Very much agreed about the brilliance of Maus. Our local high school districts assign in in literature classes.

And Patdys-- why guilty? Tank Girl rocks!
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Just to combine a couple levels of geekiness-- has anyone out there heard of Sam Hurt's Eyebeam? It's like if Seinfeld and Dr. Who had a baby.


Here's a good tip-of-the iceberg example


Also, if you are a gaming fan, look up some compendiums of Knights of the Dinner Table, a strip that focuses on the antics of a table top RPG group, which ran in Dragon magazine for many years before becoming a comic on its own. Really, really funny. Also, a comic series spin off developed around the gaming group's characters-- Hackmaster.
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Maus is required reading. I held off on getting it for the longest time (because, you know, required reading, why should I read it, I should already know everything in it, I've read enough about it there's nothing new in it, ooh, signed copy, okay, I'll read it, oh hey, there's a lot here I didn't know about, imagine that), but yeah. Once you've read it, the craft of comics will make sense. Also check out MetaMaus, Spiegelman's commentary and research notes.

Also worth finding: the Contract with God trilogy by Wil Eisner, along with Comics and Sequential Art and, if you can find it, Comics: The Invisible Art. There's not very much high-level criticism on the level of literary criticism in comics (well, unless you're sitting in on panels at SPX, in which case, gender studies, here we come!), but if you read the two "theory" books and Contract, comics and comic theory will make more sense. Actually, I prefer to use Craig Thomson's Habibi as a better example of the use of graphic and lettering theory—I don't think I own a more gorgeous book than that one—but to each their own.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Patdys:
and tank girl.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:
Maus is required reading. I held off on getting it for the longest time ...because, you know, required reading, why should I read it, I should already know everything in it, I've read enough about it there's nothing new in it....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:
Maus is required reading. I held off on getting it for the longest time (because, you know, required reading, why should I read it, I should already know everything in it, I've read enough about it there's nothing new in it, ooh, signed copy, okay, I'll read it, oh hey, there's a lot here I didn't know about, imagine that), but yeah. Once you've read it, the craft of comics will make sense. Also check out MetaMaus, Spiegelman's commentary and research notes.

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Shit, I saw that in a used bookstore the other day, and just assumed it was a compilation alone. Must go back.

I was following political comics and indie comics for years, but Maus really seemed to signal a shift in public perception of comics-- it's was the first ( and still the best) solid argument for comic art as a form of literature.

The only Craig Thompson I have read is Blankets, which is almost unbearably raw and touching.
 

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Posted by Kyzyl (# 374) on :
 
Am I the only one who saw the title to this thread as "Comic sans" and thought it was going to be about fonts?

[ 28. June 2014, 18:47: Message edited by: Kyzyl ]
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
If you want meta comics; the books by Scott Mcleod starting with "Understanding Comics" give a huge insight in the art of making comics. It's worth reading even if, like me, you can't draw.

While "Maus" is definitely great, I remember with great fondness Speigelman's all black cover for the New Yorker the week after 9/11 and the comics he did shortly thereafter. Very moving art in a politically difficult time.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kyzyl:
Am I the only one who saw the title to this thread as "Comic sans" and thought it was going to be about fonts?

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Yes.

Sorry about that
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
The UK versions were 2000AD and Judge Dredd - and they weren't that easy to get hold of, the American versions were even harder - to the point that there were (are?) comic books shops in Covent Garden I used to visit.
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
I have to watch my pennies a LOT right now due to poor finances (indeed, part of what interrupted my time on the Ship a few years ago was my parents' deaths, getting a house, then losing the house, having a sort of near-nervous breakdown, getting my life back together, etc. and now I have a nice but not-high-paying job in which I have found my niche, in an apartment with Cubby), but here is what is coming out I most recommend on the super-hero side of things from DC:

THE MULTIVERSITY (Grant Morrison)
JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK (J.M. DeMatteis)
SECRET ORIGINS
TRINITY OF SIN: THE PHANTOM STRANGER #22 (DeMatteis)
JUSTICE LEAGUE 3000 (DeMatteis)
WORLD’S FINEST (Paul Levitz)
EARTH 2 (Tom Taylor)
ACTION COMICS (Greg Pak)
BATMAN/SUPERMAN (Pak)
ALL-STAR WESTERN #34 (Palmiotti)
SENSATION COMICS FEATURING WONDER WOMAN
ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN
BATMAN BEYOND UNIVERSE
ASTRO CITY (Kurt Busiek)

The Gentle Reader may note that many of these are not set in the New 52 at all:
THE MULTIVERSITY
SENSATION COMICS FEATURING WONDER WOMAN
ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN
BATMAN BEYOND UNIVERSE
ASTRO CITY
(periodically, when they collect them, the digital-first non-continuity Legends of the Dark Knight stories)

Of the remaining ones, many are not set in (1) the present day or (2) the main New 52 Earth:
SECRET ORIGINS
JUSTICE LEAGUE 3000
WORLD’S FINEST
EARTH 2
ALL-STAR WESTERN (ending soon, alas)

Which leaves just these as my glimpse into the present-day main-Earth New 52:
JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK
TRINITY OF SIN: THE PHANTOM STRANGER (ending soon, alas)
ACTION COMICS
BATMAN/SUPERMAN

All of which I am getting for two reasons: J.M. DeMatteis and Greg Pak.

When I can afford them, which is not right now, I will go get back issues or trade collections of Gail Simone's Batgirl, Jeff Parker's Aquaman, and Dan Jurgens' Aquaman and the Others. Geoff Johns made an Aquaman I couldn't stand, but I am sure Parker and Jurgens can make him more suited to my tastes.

As for Marvel:

A few years ago, I hated, hated, hated Civil War and much that came from/led to it. Hated it. Passionately. To me, that was Marvel's Bad Period. I think things have much improved, especially due to Marvel having a lot better writing than DC overall right now. (In my opinion.) I think things have become vastly better with Axel Alonso at the helm.

My Marvel list of stuff, basically based on writers (Aaron (which is why Original Sin is the first crossover series I've actually bought in YEARS), Robinson, Davis, Remender, Moore, Slott, the whole Ms. Marvel team, Rucka, Cornell, Claremont, etc.) plus my Logan/Wolverine fix (which I will always buy unless it is by one of the writers I truly, truly dislike, not naming names here):

ORIGINAL SIN
FANTASTIC FOUR
ALL-NEW INVADERS
ORIGINAL SINS
SAVAGE HULK
MIRACLEMAN -- yes, by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman BY THE WAY, IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW, MARVEL NOW HAS THE RIGHTS TO THIS GROUNDBREAKING EARLY 1980s SERIES AND IS REPRINTING IT ALL FROM THE START
UNCANNY AVENGERS
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN
MS. MARVEL
AMAZING X-MEN
CYCLOPS
WOLVERINE
SAVAGE WOLVERINE
WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN
NIGHTCRAWLER

Marvel list of stuff for later when I can:
Everything not on the above list by Waid (Daredevil, Hulk), Slott, Aaron (Thor, etc.), and Remender (Captain America), with some other things possibly.

Dark Horse: Conan stuff.

Dynamite: Sometimes, when I can afford it, Warlord of Mars or Tarzan or Red Sonja stuff.

I have a LOT of stuff on lists for "getting when I can afford them as either trade paperbacks or in back issues."
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
And there are some fantastic web comics. I highly recommend GIRL GENIUS, but plan to have a chunk of time in hand before you begin. You will wish to read it from the beginning (it's all on line for free) and it'll take you a while. They've been publishing three comics a week for more than ten years.
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Webcomics I like:

Sinfest
Thepunchlineismachismo
From Draenor With Love
Oglaf (NOT SAFE FOR WORK AT ALL)
 

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Posted by Kyzyl (# 374) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kyzyl:
Am I the only one who saw the title to this thread as "Comic sans" and thought it was going to be about fonts?

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Yes.

Sorry about that

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Clearly I went and read Oglaf.

You really have to like looking at penii a lot to enjoy it.

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Which at least makes a change from most NSFW stuff, that only tends to have female parts in it.
 

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Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
I discovered Oglaf by accident a while ago and have been following it ever since.

I also regularly read YAFGC which I discovered after following a Doctor Who comic by the same writer
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I've kinda sorta heard of sinfest-- didn't they used to be part of keenspot?

I used to prowl keenspot regularly, but checking it out recently was kind if disappointing-- the occasional manga/ d& d knockoff is ok, but that seems to be all they got now. I like the unusual. ( one of my faves in that site was some soapy thing about a Canadian girls' school.). On that note, I was cheered to see that Chopping Block-- the single panel hijinks of a cuddly serial killer-- is still going strong.

Boxjam's Doodle seems to have faded into the blue. Sad. It was a pleasant little bit of weird.

I actually had a great discussion about graphic novels with a cousin yesterday, and I told him I really owe my love of comics to two books I read when I was abour 9 or 10-- one was A History of the United States Through Political Cartoons, 1776-1976 ( I don't think I was seriously interested in history before reading this) and The Brass Ring by Bill Mauldin, who was a cartoonist for the Army newspaper Stars and Stripes throughout WWII. The latter book I should not have been reading at age 10, but I highly recommend it both as a war narrative and a celebration of comic art and the power of political cartoons.

But this memory of clandestine reading brings me back to hiding in my grandparent's attic and reading through my grandpa's stack of Playboy 's -- for the cartoons. *One shock I remember was seeing the name of beloved children's book author Tomi Ungerer as the creator of some bizarre comic strip about anthropomorphic genitalia chasing each other around a desert.

* ok, the centerfold bios were pretty funny, too.

[ 29. June 2014, 15:25: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I first started reading comics back when Green Arrow moved to Seattle and the stories were aimed at more mature readers - I loved Mike Grell's work, and was lucky enough to meet him at a Comic Con this year. That was the weekend I dressed up as Green Arrow and Captain Marvel on different days - I think Carol Danvers is brilliant, and why can't Marvel do a tshirt of her uniform top? I had to make my own.
At around the same time, I was another Elfquest fan (via a novelisation I bought at a Star Trek Con), but I never did get to find out if they ever found the space ship their race had arrived on the planet in.
Then there was a long gap, and now my Young Man is educating me - he's a long-time Captain Britain fan, and Paul Cornell, one of my favourite Doctor Who writers, did a series of stories featuring Captain Britain, MI-13, and various other characters like Spitfire and Captain Midlands - and a Muslim woman doctor who ends up wielding Excalibur! That led me on to a stand-alone Pete Wisdom/MI-13 story.
The Young Man can also explain long and complicated back stories of various characters, and stop me from making social faux pas like mixing up Marvel and DC characters!
I also dipped my toe in the water by buying the Neil Gaiman graphic novel, 1602, which introduced me to his version of Daredevil - I love Daredevil!
And just recently, I saw a trailer for a new John Constantine TV series, and I've started looking out for Hellblazer now.
 

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Posted by Ikkyu (# 15207) on :
 
I first started with the Alan Moore Swamp Thing which I still love.
And of course all other Alan Moore stuff. Or Neil Gaiman but they have been mentioned before.
What about Grant Morrison?
Animal Man
Doom Patrol
His Justice League
His X-men stuff?

I Also like the Authority and Planetary by Warren Ellis.

As someone mentioned before get the Miracleman re-issues I loved reading those back in the 90's.
I recently re-read it and it still holds up for me.

More recent stuff The Unwritten, Saga, Fables.
 

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Posted by Ikkyu (# 15207) on :
 
Forgot that I still have a lot of Elfquest somewhere.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Elfquest is fun.
 

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Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
It is MrP who is the comics fan in this household, but we recently went to see the Comics exhibition at the British Library and were very disappointed. The basic problem, I think, is that it completely ducked the question of defining "comics", so the contents seemed rather random. I had expected more historical stuff (mostly because it's what I would do with all the resources of the British Library at my disposal), but there was one Cruikshank print and that was pretty much it. Oh and John Dee's book, which was fascinating but I still don't understand why it was there. (Or the cheap paperbacks of Lovecraft.)

MrP had expected far more original artwork, rather than just books displayed at an angle, so that it was not easy to read them. There was very little discussion of the artwork and none of why one might choose this way of telling a story. We were also bemused by the number of models in Guy Fawkes masks standing around. The whole thing felt aimed at those wanting to be seen to be trendy rather than true comics fans who already knew the stuff.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
That's very disappointing, considering it was a library. What a missed opportunity!

In Downtown SF, we have a cartoon art museum, which is rather small, but nifty.

Linkage.

[ 29. June 2014, 21:40: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Now, Trina Robbins knows how to put together an expo!
 

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Posted by Figbash (# 9048) on :
 
And I might add that I was not especially happy at the way that the exhibition massively broadened the definition of comic to the extent that it eventually became 'any book with a picture in'. Yes, the Beardsley frontispiece was very nice, but what did it have to do with comics?

However, as Mrs P says, I felt that there was far too much attention paid to the self-consciously hip, or the dreadful sub-genre of the literary comic. And to find Grant Morrison's magisterial thesis on absolutely everything, The Invisibles passed off as an essay in class warfare and, specifically, the evil of fox-hunting, was simply ridiculous. I had, I must say, expected better.

So, anyway, lists seem to be in, so here goes:

• Anything penned by Giffen / DeMattheis (in particular their great '80s / '90s run on the Justice League, which was the only time anyone ever seemed to pay attention to the political / legal ramifications of the organisation)
• Anything penned by Grant Morrison, but especially The Filth and Doom Patrol - one has to love a super villain group called the Brotherhood of Dada
• Alan Moore up to about five years ago (or whenever he started Century) at which point he seemed to get far too much into the whole cross-references thing
• The Goon by Eric Powell is great - everyone should read it
• Also Madman by Mike Aldred
• Chew by Layman and Guillory with its wonderfully crazed world of food-based superpowers
• Bomb Queen by Jimmie Morrison provides, in the context of a raucously violent, near-pornographic comedy, an amazingly penetrating critique of the whole superhero concept, on a par with that in Watchmen
• The weird world of Ted McKeever - start with something like Mondo - reality simply falls apart until nothing is obvious
• Zombo the polite zombie / human hybrid, by Ewing and Flint, is one of 2000AD's proudest recent creations. His catchphrase is 'Hello, can I eat you please?'
• Hitman by Garth Ennis - with such superheroes as Bueno Excellente, who conquers with the power of perversion, or Dogwelder who, er, welds dead dogs to his enemies, plus zombie seals and dolphins, this one can't be missed
• And finally, but most important of all, anything anything starring the divine Miss Quinn, from Mad Love to her very own early '00s comic Harley Quinn, but NOT the blasphemous travesty of her shown in DC's Nu52 abomination.

And no, there's no Neil Gaiman in there. If I want to read incoherent, pretentious drivel I'll go for the London Review of Books any day.
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Aw, I love Neil Gaiman.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I've never read him, but only because I don't want to give myself another reason to part with my cash. I put off reading Love and Rockets for a year for the same reason.
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Libraries often carry collected graphic novels, especially the award-winning ones.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
...

The first taste is free.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
are we counting Heavy Metal? I used to get those regularly. loved them. are they still published?
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Yeah, I ran across some the other day-- used to sneak-read them in the local bookstore, when I was a kid.

[ 30. June 2014, 05:05: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
Kelly, come to the Dark Side and try Neil Gaiman's Black Orchid! I read it back when I had no idea who he was, and thought it was brilliant.
 

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Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 
Comics? Oh my yes.

I've have photographic evidence of my early start: a picture of a 21-month-old Arachnid sat on hands and knees and nose in a Fantastic Four.

I had access to my older brother's Marvel comics, mostly X-men, as a kid. Also the Beano and Eagle (Dan Dare, anyone?) Asterix and Tintin. Later, my own copies of X-Men, Vertigo titles and 2000AD (Judge Dredd or Pat Mills for preference, so ABC Warriors and Slaine).

I've worked my way through series including Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Y-The Last Man, Promethea and the Grandeville Series.

Shipmates, I must confess, I have an addiction to comics
 

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Posted by Mertseger (# 4534) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChastMastr:
Hi! Any other comics fans here? I'm mainly Marvel and DC with some Dark Horse and Dynamite, though this is kind of general, but I thought I'd see who else there is...

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quote:

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Also the Beano and Eagle (Dan Dare, anyone?) Asterix and Tintin.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jane R:
And I pointed out to her that reading comic books in foreign languages not only counts as Work if your teachers catch you doing it (as one of mine did when I was studying for A-level French) but also allows you unrivalled opportunities to discover the French (or German) equivalents of POW! BAM! and find out how to ask for wild boar and say 'These Romans are crazy'.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mertseger:

quote:

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Originally posted by ChastMastr:
Hi! Any other comics fans here? I'm mainly Marvel and DC with some Dark Horse and Dynamite, though this is kind of general, but I thought I'd see who else there is...

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IIRC, the entire reason I discovered SoF is because you are a comics fan. Somehow SoF cropped up in your discussing of Moore's Promethea on some other board, lo these many years.

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quote:

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The story behind it is that Tintin had been appearing in the children's magazine of a paper called Le XXe Siècle. And the moment the Germans occupied Brussels in 1940 Le XXe Siècle was closed down, on the basis that it was a Catholic newspaper. Hergé was upset because he was out of work, but very soon afterwards he received a phone call from the editor of Le Soir, Belgium's leading newspaper, asking if he'd bring Tintin over to them. Hergé was of course delighted.

In a matter of weeks Le Soir had come under control of the Germans, and began to feature reports of Wehrmacht successes on the Eastern front and stuff like that. So Hergé was writing for a paper which was collaborating, and it was embarrassing. But a lot of Belgians in the resistance said they still read Tintin because it lifted their morale. That was why Raymond Leblanc, one of the leading resistance figures, set up Tintin magazine after the war. Talking with Hergé, he said of course that with hindsight he would have done things differently. But he only collaborated accidentally and certainly his politics were not of that kind. If you look through the Tintin books, you'll find German villains littering them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It worries me that after forty five years of happy comic reading I suddenly no longer enjoy most of them. Batman, and most of DC, has been actively repellent. I buy them and cannot be bothered to read them any more. Am I (great heavens) growing out of them, at long last?

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No, they've just become repellent, at least in the case of much of the New 52.

I can recommend many (see my list above) which you might like more, if your tastes are like mine, anyway.

If you don't like the Bat-books (I do love Gail Simone in general so I suspect her Batgirl is good but it's on my "when I can afford" list), there are two more coming out to avoid in October. Yes, really. Indeed, we may be reaching "Batman Critical Mass," since I think there are about two million Bat titles right now.

(Oddly, Gotham Academy sounds like it could be fun, though since it's in the New 52 I expect doom and gloom.)
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
I know some people really like Snyder's Batman, but... honestly, the last page of the first New 52 issue of it, with the Joker's face ripped off and everything, made me so nauseated I wanted nothing more to do with it, and what I've encountered since has not encouraged me to return.

That's not outgrowing it. That's the comics changing. As a kid I'd have been even more aghast.
 

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Posted by hen house (# 17252) on :
 
Big Marvel and DC fan over here.
 

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Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
One of the best things I've seen lately was in the daily paper, when Pearls Before Swine had a visit from a guest artist.

The banner ad gives the joke away, so try to imagine coming across that strip unprepared. And do click forward -- there are two more strips to see.
 

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Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Ah, webcomics. I wasn't going to post on this thread, but then they came up! I avidly follow, and heartily recommend, all of the following (in no particular order):

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChastMastr:
I know some people really like Snyder's Batman, but... honestly, the last page of the first New 52 issue of it, with the Joker's face ripped off and everything, made me so nauseated I wanted nothing more to do with it, and what I've encountered since has not encouraged me to return.

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I thought that book stank, but the real clincher for me was the final page of the first Nu52 issue of Catwoman: Bruce and Selina caught in mid-shag in a state of rather unfortunate part-undress. It wasn't even well drawn, but, ooh, it was nasty.

I think that a lot of the problem is down to the gradual shift from comics being a thing in themselves, to comics being appendages to media companies. So Warner Brothers don't like comics, because they lose money, but they love the comics publishers' intellectual property, as a great source for movies. And then, of course, they realised that they could re-jig the comics, so instead of being imaginative literature, they were just tie-ins and promo materials for the movies. So the women are downgraded to ineffectual sex objects, and everything is about 'cinematic' action rather than plot, character or ideas. Thank heavens for Image and 2000AD.

Oh yes, I'm afraid that Simone's Batgirl was terrible. The premise was ridiculous, and the stories more so. Obviously the right thing to do would have been to retain Oracle and Stephanie Brown as Batgirl, but I suppose a paraplegic genius and a massively insecure superhero with a history of competence issues just wouldn't sell to the yahoos who fill the cinemas.

And let's not even mention what they did to Harley Quinn...
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Yeah, the Catwoman thing was... ... awkward. Not happy with that either. Or with an array of other things.

DC Comics: Bad at Math

Gail didn't want Barbara to stop being Oracle either but she was stuck with it, and she loves Barbara, so she is staying with the book. She and other folks at DC have been trying for some time to bring back beloved characters but it's been against a lot of weird editorial ... stuff. The powers that be at DC have been alienating creators a LOT since the reboot. There's an actual website called Has DC Done Something Stupid Today? devoted to keeping track of those and other, ah, missteps. There's been a LOT of poor, top-down, heavy-handed decisions at DC. (Some of the fleeing creators have gone to other companies, including Marvel and Image and Boom and others...)

I love Li'l Gotham myself. Reading them as the relevant holidays come out.

Harley Quinn seems to be a bit more like her old self (and less... unclothed) in a new series by Palmiotti and Conner, which is on my "get when I can list" because of the creative team.

I enjoy some books in the current DCU, but it's really in spite of what I see as a pretty nasty Elseworlds universe, and I cannot wait for the next reboot, ideally after regime change.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
That's the other infuriating thing. The constant reboots. At any given moment you know that what you are reading is written on sand at low tide. It becomes easier to say, gosh, let me skip the next five reboots and see if it improves.
 

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Posted by Figbash (# 9048) on :
 
And even worse, when what started as an independent story, exploring some idea or other, deliberately outside the continuity (such as Kingdom Come, with its grim look at the fascism inherent in the superhero concept, or the visionary 1990's Starman) end up being co-opted into the continuity, and inevitably misunderstood and generally ruined as a result.

Basically, as Keith Giffen has argued with some vehemence, continuity is a bad thing and should be discouraged. What's wrong with bit of imagination?
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
As an infrequent visitor to the comic universe I am wondering if the dissatisfaction with the current DC/Marvel is a variation of the maxim that the Golden Age of Science Fiction is 12.

Are these Comics aimed at adults who don't find them satisfactory? Are there substantial younger readers or are they all off watching Adventure Time?
 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by JoannaP:
It is MrP who is the comics fan in this household, but we recently went to see the Comics exhibition at the British Library and were very disappointed. The basic problem, I think, is that it completely ducked the question of defining "comics", so the contents seemed rather random. I had expected more historical stuff (mostly because it's what I would do with all the resources of the British Library at my disposal), but there was one Cruikshank print and that was pretty much it. Oh and John Dee's book, which was fascinating but I still don't understand why it was there. (Or the cheap paperbacks of Lovecraft.)

MrP had expected far more original artwork, rather than just books displayed at an angle, so that it was not easy to read them. There was very little discussion of the artwork and none of why one might choose this way of telling a story. We were also bemused by the number of models in Guy Fawkes masks standing around. The whole thing felt aimed at those wanting to be seen to be trendy rather than true comics fans who already knew the stuff.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
As an infrequent visitor to the comic universe I am wondering if the dissatisfaction with the current DC/Marvel is a variation of the maxim that the Golden Age of Science Fiction is 12.

Are these Comics aimed at adults who don't find them satisfactory? Are there substantial younger readers or are they all off watching Adventure Time?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Are these Comics aimed at adults who don't find them satisfactory? Are there substantial younger readers or are they all off watching Adventure Time?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I am in my 50s, and somehow DC has contrived to alienate me, after 45 years of happy comics reading. That does take some doing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:

Did anyone here read and enjoy the original Batman Adventures comic books? They were loosely based upon the cartoon series, and they were stellar. They got Paul Dini his start.

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Oh yes: they, and the follow-ups, were absolutely splendid - AND they gave Dr Quinn her start in the DCU too.

I don't know if you've seen, but Dini has recently done a Zatanna / Black Canary adventure which is absolutely definitely set in the old DCU...
 

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Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on :
 
Is anyone else a LSH fan? I've been following the group since Adventure days, through the various titles they have had. Having been buggered about by some eccentric creators, as well as by being tied in to changes in the DC Universe that should have been irrelevant, the real LSH was finally back in the capable hands of Paul Levitz. And then it got cancelled - so what now?
 

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Posted by Figbash (# 9048) on :
 
I definitely enjoyed Keith Giffen's adventures with the Legion, though that might count as eccentric However, as you say, whenever he appeared to be getting anywhere interesting, along came DC Central with another 'event' forcing everything to reboot, so one moment we were dealing with the rather interesting 'what happened when they grew up?' story-line, and the next moment they're all teenagers again, and Matter Eater Lad is a . . . chef???

You'd have thought being 1000 years in the future would make them immune from this crap.
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Figbash:
Well, let's start by observing that that maxim was almost certainly stated by somebody who had never actually read any SF. I suspect that very few 12 year olds would find Ubik or The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch or Solaris or Roadside Picnic especially satisfying.

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I was reading Heinlein's Glory Road at 11 and Asimov, Clarke, and at 12 when the library would finally let me check out stuff in the YA room. I didn't get to Man in the High Castle till I was fourteen. Ubik wasn't published till later. I do remember my 8th grade English Class being dismayed by being assigned "Lord of the Rings" but I had other readers to talk to even then.

[ 05. July 2014, 01:51: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Yes, one of the first comic books I ever read was the (first) death of Lightning Lad. The LSH in the glory days was a wonderful thing. But it hasn't been anywhere near as good in decades.

You have a title for the Dini Zatanna? Is it part of an ongoing series?n
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
The Dini Zatanna/BC story is a one-shot, alas.

Love Legion, though I did not like Five Years Later as I found it too grim.

I do like DeMatteis so I am getting his stuff. I have mixed feelings about Giffen's current output.

The stuff in the New 52 I recommend is listed above.
 

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Posted by Figbash (# 9048) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
You have a title for the Dini Zatanna? Is it part of an ongoing series?n

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quote:

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I definitely enjoyed Keith Giffen's adventures with the Legion, though that might count as eccentric [Smile]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Figbash:

quote:

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I definitely enjoyed Keith Giffen's adventures with the Legion, though that might count as eccentric [Smile]

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NOOOOOO!!!!! His makeover was hideous, depressing and nonsensical. Giffen didn't just knife the Legion in the back, he danced on the grave as well.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Figbash:
And dark as hell. And not even remotely escapist.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Figbash:
such as Kingdom Come, with its grim look at the fascism inherent in the superhero concept

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bernard Mahler:
No more Chips, Rainbow, Playbox,and all the others. No more Tiger Tim, Wendy and her magic carpet, or Brighteyes who was always being captured, bound and gagged by Gypsy Meg.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Firenze:
The post-war titles I remember were Beano, Dandy, Topper, Wizard, Adventure, Rover and, of course! the one and only Eagle. It was all very gendered, with girls' comics like Girl, Swift and Bunty - which I despised as someone who didn't do soppy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChastMastr:

quote:

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Originally posted by Figbash:
And dark as hell. And not even remotely escapist.

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Alas, to me, those are things which the Legion (as well as a lot of characters in DC's New 52) just should not be. We'll probably just have to disagree there...

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Agreed Chast. Also, it was incoherent. Having struggled through a dozen issues, and so given it time to prove itself, I was forced to conclude that Giffen-world was never going to make sense.
 

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Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :
 
I took to Dylan Dog horror comics when trying to learn Italian. It is hard to get in Italian in Australia, so I hope to get some more on my next trip.

As I boy I read Dan Dare in the Eagle comics and it sparked my interest in the solar system. I also read Peanuts books and bought The Dandy

I leave copies of For Better or For Worse collections in the guest room. I put Gary Larson's The Curse of Madame "C" there as well.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I see, rather belatedly, that there is a new volume of LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLMEN out this past season. Alas, it sounds uninteresting. Has anyone read it?
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
Firenze - that sounds like the Silent Three, from Schoolfriend, creeping around in robes at boarding school - it was my mum's favourite!
My favourite was Valda, from Mandy, who was more or less immortal and got her energy from holding a crystal up to the sun. I suppose she was the first superhero I ever came across.
During school terms, I used to read June and Schoolfriend, and sometimes Mandy and Bunty, because mum considered them 'suitable'. On holidays I could use my pocket money to buy whatever I liked, so I usually went for Valiant - I liked Captain Hurricane and all the Second World War stuff.
My little sister had Twinkle and we cut out and kept every single one of those dolls in national costume from round the world!
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
SQUEEEEEE!
Have ya seen the new Batgirl?
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
But what are the stories like? (I hope she is not wearing stiletto heels.)
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

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Co-writer Brenden Fletcher added their take incorporates "mixes the best elements of 'Veronica Mars' and 'Girls,' with a dash of 'Sherlock' thrown in for good measure."

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Co-writer Brenden Fletcher added their take incorporates "mixes the best elements of 'Veronica Mars' and 'Girls,' with a dash of 'Sherlock' thrown in for good measure."

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
SQUEEEEEE!
Have ya seen the new Batgirl?

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quote:

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Originally posted by comet:
our dear departed ken was a marvel man, as well.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Persephone Hazard:
I'm mostly a Marvel girl

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JEAN!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Happy 75th, Caped Crusader.

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Indeed!
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Happy birthday, dear Batman! Happy birthday to you!

It is frightening to contemplate how much of the furniture of my imagination is derived from comic books, especially Batman. I can go through my oeuvre and spot it everywhere. All of my heroes, without exception are crime fighters of one sort or another.
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
ChastMastr - I somehow missed this thread, but found your comics tumblr. Thought I'd better join in!

Happy Batman Day indeed - I haven't read that many of the comics but love Batman and the main DC world generally, and am trying to read more. I love the Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On Serious Earth graphic novel (amazing!) and really enjoyed the vampire Batman non-canon storyline. I am eh on much of the New 52 stuff though, and miss Birds of Prey and Oracle!Barbara - the Arkham video game continuity is much more my thing at the moment (I don't have the hand-eye coordination to play but I love watching walkthroughs on youtube ).

Ariel - Jackie magazine was named after Jacqueline Wilson, who worked for the magazine when it was launched.
 

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Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 
Not even Batman can spend all his time saving the world. Happy (belated) Batman Day
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I'm not really into comics. The only one I like is Astérix.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Yesterday's issue of Batman Beyond Universe just finished up its "Justice Lords Beyond" storyline--and I have to admit that it was a far more satisfying ending than I expected. There were several nice subtleties to it. Other people besides Bruce Wayne have donned the Batman name, but I don't think any have caught my imagination quite so much as Terry McGinnis.
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
And for me--as someone who loathes the New 52 as a universe (individual books in it are good but they are exceptions that stand out against a pretty awful backdrop)--the Beyond book gives me at least a taste of the "real" heroes, even though it's in the future. I haven't read the latest issue yet but I'd like to think that WW stays and we get something resembling the "real" WW to read on a regular basis--though Sensation Comics should help with that too.
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Did anyone follow the news from San Diego Comic-Con this last weekend? What are you most excited about (if anything)?
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Bumping for Wood!
 

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Posted by Wood (# 7) on :
 
O hai.

Comics, eh? OK then.

For me, it's mainly the Europeans, Moebius and Bilal. Frezzato. Gimenez. Those guys. Asterix. Valerian. And Laureline.

As a teenager, I read 2000AD loads. Also Elfquest. Love Elfquest (yes, the did find the cosmic palace/starship). I have a liking for 1970s Marvel comics, but have a strong dislike of "dark" superheroes.

I suppose that I shall have to tell you about Transhuman Resources at some point.
 

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