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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: October book group-Dying to Know You
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
This month we are reading Dying to Know You by Aidan Chambers .
The discussion will be led by Garasu, starting around 20th.
Please post if you're joining in.
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Having finished it last week,I'll be joining in. Looking forward to the discussion as I don't think I've ever read anything quite like it.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Fascinating book! I read it in two days and am now reading again, but only on selected chapters. If there was a sequel, I would read it as there seems to be more to tell!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
I have borrowed this book from my local library and I intend to read it and join the discussion.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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fullgospel
Shipmate
# 18233
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Posted
I have ordered the book.
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on the one hand - self doubt
on the other, the universe that looks through your eyes - your eyes
Posts: 364 | From: Rubovia | Registered: Sep 2014
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Welcome to the Ship, fullgospel!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Have downloaded this to my Kindle so will be joining you.
(and realised I still had City of Women on the Wish List - oops - September got exceedingly busy).
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Read it already - interesting book.
(And I feel totally sad. Because it was teenage fiction, and the way it started, I was reading it with half a mind on whether it would be usable for teaching. Unfortunately, I don't think so for the current batch of students.)
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Not for us either. We don't teach secondary school.
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
Finished reading.
Garasu is preparing our questions. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
Okay, here we go (with thanks to Tree Bee for reminding me!):
1. How did you find the pace of the narrative?
2. How was the characterisation handled? The different ages of the characters? the depiction of dyslexia? Did you know them as people, or were they ciphers?
3. Does the location and time period serve to ground the story, or will it limit its appeal? Are they well evoked?
4. Were there any particular details that stood out for you?
5. What did you learn? How did it function as a proxy for experience? Did any of that detract from or enhance the storytelling?
6. How did you find the language in which the story is told?
7. What's the tone? (Happy/sad; funny/serious; safe/disturbing; expected/unpredictable; larger than life/ down to earth; beautiful/disgusting; gentle/violent; easy/demanding; conventional/unusual; optimistic/bleak...)
8. It's marketed as a young adult novel. Does it work for that audience?
9. If you were writing the blurb, how would you describe the book?
10. Can you think of similar books?
And, of course, whatever else anyone wants to talk about
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Garasu:
Okay, here we go (with thanks to Tree Bee for reminding me!):
1. How did you find the pace of the narrative?
It was neither too fast or too slow, just about right.
2. How was the characterisation handled? The different ages of the characters? the depiction of dyslexia? Did you know them as people, or were they ciphers?
I think that the characters were very believable, though the widow was a bit one-dimensional. I would have enjoyed her getting together with the elderly protagonist. I thought the writer was very believable: I write a bit, with a failed novel under my belt and others in progress. I always write in my wife's study when she is not doing school planning. I think that the old man was a lot like I fancy seeing myself when I am in my seventies as I don't have grandchildren either.
I know very little about dyslexia except that writing is difficult. One of my colleagues on stage is head of audio. He is a very ordinary guy. He has a wife and three grown children. He likes to saddle up his big Ford truck and caravan for camping trips. He just doesn't write much. I think the characters are not ciphers at all!
3. Does the location and time period serve to ground the story, or will it limit its appeal? Are they well evoked?
I think it is obvious that the story is set in the present day or no more than ten years in the past. I don't see how that could be a limiting factor. I don't think that it needed to be anything but a contemporary story. I might have put more cars in it, but then I like cars and found the Range Rover perfectly suitable for a successful septagenarian writer. I have been to rural England and taken some memorable drives in Cornwall. I don't think the author tried to narrow down the story by setting it in a specific shire any more than Borsetshire is a real place! The time setting and places seen such as the river is well-evoked.
4. Were there any particular details that stood out for you?
I liked the description of the river and the pillar of stones a lot. I would have liked to see a closer description of the sculpture as I studied art at university.
5. What did you learn? How did it function as a proxy for experience? Did any of that detract from or enhance the storytelling?
I learned that true love will out and Fiorella may have been a lot of fun on a camping trip, though not marriage material as she just wanted to be a lover, not a wife. I think she was a bit too posh also. Becky really seems to love Carl.
6. How did you find the language in which the story is told?
I rather fancy the famous author speaking RP, while the other characters may have had regional accents such as Yorkshire of Cornish. This book might be suitable for secondary school pupils.
7. What's the tone?
Unpredictable but down to earth and mostly gentle except for the lager louts: they should have all been given ASBOs after the first incident!
8. It's marketed as a young adult novel. Does it work for that audience?
If by that you mean ages 17-21, I would concur.
9. If you were writing the blurb, how would you describe the book?
Boy meets girl number one, gets help with writing his deepest thoughts from famous writer; girl number two appears on the scene and she is much more suitable.
10. Can you think of similar books?
Cyrano de Bergerac comes to mind...
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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mrWaters
Shipmate
# 18171
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Posted
So I finished the book about 2 days ago, this being my first book club entrance. Knowing the ship's age profile, I'm probably the closest to this book's target audience (I'm 23). I may not be the most average reader, having read the Trial at the age of 14 and giving up fantasy before I was 18. Recently I got stuck on 2666 in extremely depressing chapter.
1.I found this book extremely easy to read. Just like fantasy I read it in about 2 days. I felt like I needed to read more and more of it fairly quickly so the pacing may have been a little too fast for me. I thought very well of the structure, even though it seemed fairly simple.
2. I think characterization was good, the mother's depiction may have been very one-sided but what do you expect from a mother deeply involved with her son.
Dyslexia in the book. You may, or may not have noticed but I'm dyslexic, however not quite to the same degree as Karl in the novel. I
think it does depict it fairly well. It is hard to do so since most of dyslexia's rules go against logic.
3. After reading the book I did not remember anything concrete about the location. Just a city, a beautiful site by the river and a few other places. Time is close to us, technology was not the point of this book. Although in 2014 two young people without facebook seem to be a rarity.
4. I do tend to concentrate on the substance instead of the form but I remember places more by emotions that they bring than how they looked. I would have enjoyed some more attention to the sculpture and other prototypes of this kind. Did I ever say that I'm pretentious about art?
5. I think I learned something about art and the process of becoming an artist.
6. I'm not a native English speaker, so that is probably why I found it enjoyable, easy to read, but nothing special.
7. It dealt with some more complicated topics, however it was still written in a practical tone. It was also very optimistic (Or maybe I've read too many pessimistic books).
8. Should, not that I know too many young adults that read books.
9. I'm terrible at blurbs. Guy meets an author while trying to impress his girlfriend. Guy becomes a sculptor and gets a new girlfriend.
10. As I said before I rarely read books like this one. I should probably read some more of books recommended here to widen my perspectives.
Posts: 80 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: Jul 2014
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
1. How did you find the pace of the narrative?
I found it a pacy read, the use of speech without much narration helped that.
2. How was the characterisation handled? The different ages of the characters? the depiction of dyslexia? Did you know them as people, or were they ciphers?
The narrator and dyslexic main character, Karl, were well drawn, leaving the other characters more sketchy, only seen through their eyes. Florella and Karl's mother were partial for that reason.
3. Does the location and time period serve to ground the story, or will it limit its appeal? Are they well evoked?
There was only really a strong sense of place for the river site and the narrator's cottage. I'm not sure how well grounded it was in time, there was some feeling of old-fashioned in the atmosphere, partly engendered by the age of the narrator.
4. Were there any particular details that stood out for you?
Not really, I'm left with a feeling of building understanding of the characters - the reader's as they read the book, the characters as they learn about themselves.
5. What did you learn? How did it function as a proxy for experience? Did any of that detract from or enhance the storytelling?
My family is full of dyslexics and I often work with dyslexics, so I found it an interesting portrayal of dyslexia and the frustrations. And was wondering if I could use it for teaching as I read it, particularly the start of the book.
6. How did you find the language in which the story is told?
Direct language, partly an implicit choice of the characterisation.
7. What's the tone? (Happy/sad; funny/serious; safe/disturbing; expected/unpredictable; larger than life/ down to earth; beautiful/disgusting; gentle/violent; easy/demanding; conventional/unusual; optimistic/bleak...)
It was an interesting take on this story - a way of mixing the generations. There was some cynicism in the narrator's exploitation of the story.
8. It's marketed as a young adult novel. Does it work for that audience?
Yes, for competent readers. I'm not sure how well it would work as, say a class reader for a group of teenagers.
9. If you were writing the blurb, how would you describe the book?
How an older man and a young man help each other on a voyage of discovery, and both come out learning more about themselves and each other.
10. Can you think of similar books?
Some of Anne Fine's work has this level of working together and learning about themselves and each other - for example The Granny Project.
The title made me wonder who was going to die in the book. Because the book ended with the narrator with another lease of life and a future.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
Here are my thoughts, I've omitted some questions where I didn't have much to say.
1. How did you find the pace of the narrative?
I didn't notice the pace so was OK.
2. How was the characterisation handled? The different ages of the characters? the depiction of dyslexia? Did you know them as people, or were they ciphers?
I couldn't believe the premise of 2 teens opening up to an older stranger, telling him their intimate secrets.
This was mainly an age difference thing, but also that they had no previous relationship.
Because of this I was never totally involved with the story and didn't believe in the characters.
As a way of exploring mentoring and relating to a different generation, and passing on life experience and wisdom, it was quite clever but just wasn't realistic.
3. Does the location and time period serve to ground the story, or will it limit its appeal? Are they well evoked?
I don't know why, perhaps it was the open discussion between Karl and the author (what was his name?) but to start with I imagined it set in America. Then the Wye, and I think Symons Yat was mentioned and I realised it was England.
4. Were there any particular details that stood out for you?
Yes, the impact that the sculptures made on Karl and his realisation that this was what he wanted to do.
Also the amount of times the author had to wee in the open air. Yes, I know, old man, prostate trouble etc, but it irritated me. Like, I can't do that!
6. How did you find the language in which the story is told?
The passages of reported speech eg pp 196/7 were very irritating. Other passages of direct dialogue were believable.
8. It's marketed as a young adult novel. Does it work for that audience?
I think you'd have to ask a young adult. It must be unusual for a teen book to be written from the perspective of a 75 year old man.
10. Can you think of similar books?
It reminded me of Gaarder's Sophie's World in that an elderly mentor is educating a youngster.
Like Curiosity, due to the title I wondered who was going to die. I really hoped Karl wasn't going to commit suicide. I suppose that was the tension that kept the story tight.
I reckon the book's message is all about communication and the many ways it can break down, and what can happen when bridges are built.
I liked the introduction of the Becky character and the different perspective she gave to the Fiorella character.
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
1. How did you find the pace of the narrative?
I enjoyed it, and thought the pace was just right. I liked the fact there was a simple straight thread running through it.
2. How was the characterisation handled? The different ages of the characters? the depiction of dyslexia? Did you know them as people, or were they ciphers?
I thought Dyslexia was handled quite well. The passage about the most important thing you can give a dyslexic is confidence really resonated as that what I tried to give my son as a child and teenager (He's probably at least as severely dyslexic as Karl). I thought having an elderly narrator of a book of teenagers was interesting. I didn't get much of a handle on Fiorella, though I think if she really liked the author's books she might write to him, not sure that Karl would have contacted the author though.
3. Does the location and time period serve to ground the story, or will it limit its appeal? Are they well evoked? I thought it was set in Nottingham for some reason at first (I think because the last time I read a book by Chambers, that's where I lived). I thought it was fine, no real opinions one way or another.
4. Were there any particular details that stood out for you?
The amount of time the narraotr spent peeing.
5. What did you learn? How did it function as a proxy for experience? Did any of that detract from or enhance the storytelling?
I thought it was an interesting way to tell a story, I've never come across anything quite like that before.
7. What's the tone? (Happy/sad; funny/serious; safe/disturbing; expected/unpredictable; larger than life/ down to earth; beautiful/disgusting; gentle/violent; easy/demanding; conventional/unusual; optimistic/bleak...)
Thought the tone was fairly even, though there was some menace with the blokes in the pub and the implied idea that they thought the narrator and Karl were lovers.
8. It's marketed as a young adult novel. Does it work for that audience?
I've orderd it for work, and will certainly market it to some of our keen readers, who I think may be intregued by it.
9. If you were writing the blurb, how would you describe the book?
Not quite sure what I would say, as the way it was written was to me in some ways more important than the story.
10. Can you think of similar books?
Nothing quite like this, most narrators of books for this age group are of a simialr age to their readers.
As to the dying to know you bit, I assumed the narrator was holding back on us that his problems were more serious than he was admitting, hence the widow's interest - she was trying to look after him, rather than being interested romantically.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
I found the friendship between and older man and teenage boy less unbelievable than others. It's not unknown amongst the teenagers I work with - they get involved through cutting grass for money or running other errands and get chatting. And there's often a strong bond between grandfathers and teenagers, better than with their parents.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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