Thread: Tungolcraeft Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Motylos (# 18216) on :
 
Tungolcraeft — a word I came across for the first time yesterday — is the Old English or Anglo-Saxon word for ‘astronomy’ or ‘astrology’. It lasted into Middle English as Tungolcraft, and comes from OE/AS tungol (‘planet, star’) + craeft (‘craft, art, praxis’). It has various other specific forms. It made me think about words we have lost and gained, as well as words we have adapted in our journey of language. As Christians we follow the ‘Way’ of the Logos, often translated ‘Word’, but a translation that limits its meaning. So I propose this thread as a way of ‘tungol crafting’ — searching for galaxies of meanings and symbols of significance in our linguistic inheritance. Share a word that excites you because of its sound, history, meaning, theology or whatever else. Intrigue and illuminate.

[edited thread title for code]

[ 05. October 2014, 20:38: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Welcome to the Ship.

Interesting ideas, and could lead to a good discussion. FYI: it might be that a Host/Admin will come along and move this to the Heaven board--Purg is more for robust debates.

Tungolkraeft. Good word.
 

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Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
Motylos, welcome to the Ship!

Please take the time to check out our Ten Commandments and various board Guidelines. Speaking of which, I'm wondering whether this topic is not more suited for Heaven than Purgatory, but we'll leave it a while to see how it develops.

Feel free to post a hello on the Welcome Aboard thread in All Saints, and enjoy sailing with us.

Eutychus

Purgatory Host

[x-post with GK]

[ 05. October 2014, 20:41: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
 

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Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :
 
Fortnight. A nice English word that you don't hear much no more.
 

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Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Fortnight. A nice English word that you don't hear much no more.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Fortnight. A nice English word that you don't hear much no more.

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You hear it all the time in the UK. Sennight is more or less obsolete, though.

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Interesting, though, that seventy is pronounced sennty by many Welsh people.

I haven't heard of tungolcraft - it's a good non-classical alternative to astronomy, and tungolcraft was a part of clerical training many centuries ago - you had to be able to know when it was Easter.

The Greek ouranois means heavens, but can also mean sky or atmosphere or air: the birds of the ouranois; a cloud in the ouranois; our Father who art in the ouranois. The Greek doesn't have different words. God really is a sky daddy in the gospels.

Hodos means way or path or road. When we hear 'I am the way' I think we often interpret it as 'I am the method', rather than I am the path.
 

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Posted by Motylos (# 18216) on :
 
Yes, Penny — ‘tungolcræftwíse’ and ‘tungolæ’ for the ‘-onomy’ and ‘tungolæ scream’ for the ‘-ology’!

 

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Posted by Motylos (# 18216) on :
 
Penny, I am not sure where the ‘scream’ came from. tungolgescread for the -ology!


 

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Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
A word I miss in standard English is 'mardy'. The dictionaries usually define it as meaning 'sulky' or 'moody', but to me it conveys not just that, but being precious about it at the same time.

Another word which I think it is a pity has gone out of ordinary conversational use, is 'sojourn'. Everyone knows what it means. It was slightly old fashioned 50 years ago, but now has definitely faded into being an antique. It's got slightly more intention about it than 'stay'.

[ 05. October 2014, 21:59: Message edited by: Enoch ]
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Mardy is pretty much standard English in the Lincolnshire/Notts area where many of Mrs Sioni's family live, and it does have that precious, drama llama element about it.
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

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Originally posted by Motylos:
Penny, I am not sure where the ‘scream’ came from.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Mardy is pretty much standard English in the Lincolnshire/Notts area where many of Mrs Sioni's family live, and it does have that precious, drama llama element about it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Firenze:
Some commented that the US tennis player, Mardy Fish, sounds like the successor to Angry Birds.

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North American shipmates will doubtless be aware that to UK people, having someone called Randy is really odd.
 

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Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :
 
Reminds me of when I used to work for a rock climbing magazine. I used the term "thrutchy" to describe a particular route which was perfectly understandable to anyone who climbs in the Peak District but was gobbledegook outside Derbys/S.Yorks. Thrutching is a particular kind of straining from the abdomen, such as when on the lavatory or trying to reach upwards without peeling away from a precarious foothold while buttocks are firmly clenched.
 

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Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :
 
I like and quite often use the word shemozzle (a messy situation), which has a Yiddish origin. I can't remember if I learnt it off my parents or somewhere else, and I don't know how it became popularised in Australia. Just did a bit of research and the first recorded usage in English is in Britain in 1899. Here it is often used by politicians and the media to criticize the messes made by the government or big organisations, but can also be used for everyday messy situations.
 

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Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :
 
Just searched the Australian newspaper archives and found shemozzle being used in reference to horse racing, I think the context being someone having a run of bad luck. And it's from 28 June 1888 in a paper called 'The Sydney Referee'. The paper wants to see "Mr Dukin's luck change. His shemozzle has been long enough"


And even better another article in the same paper from 4 December 1889 "The Shindy" about a fist fight explains the word 'shemozzle' and it's origins more. It used to mean luck here and was used by Yiddish bookmakers, but already at this time was been used in the US to refer to a fight.
Although the 'yankee' writing the article, had only used the luck meaning personally.

The links are here if you want to read the articles.

The Shindy

and

'What the Referee Would Like to See'
 

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Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :
 
Sorry for the triple post but just realised the article 'The Shindy' was referencing an event in England as told in 'The London Sportsman' so 'shemozzle' must have been in use there by 1889 at least. Shouldn't be posting so late at night.
 

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Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :
 
I wonder if there is a word "mank"? I often hear of things being manky, in other words a bit dirty and somewhat second best, but if that is an adjective, what is the noun?
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
I'm not sure there is a noun. But its close relative "ming" can be used as a verb "I ming, you ming, he mings..." and a noun "he's a real minger". But as an adjective...I guess minging does it.

I'm from the SE, and had not heard 'ming' until associating with folks from NI 25 years ago. These days, it's common in NW England too.

[ 06. October 2014, 17:53: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]
 

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Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
I wonder if there is a word "mank"? I often hear of things being manky, in other words a bit dirty and somewhat second best, but if that is an adjective, what is the noun?

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quote:

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prophet: Frisian, that sort of Dutch-German fusion

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quote:

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Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
I wonder if there is a word "mank"? I often hear of things being manky, in other words a bit dirty and somewhat second best, but if that is an adjective, what is the noun?

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I use mank as a noun, as in "Oh yuck, I've stepped in something nasty and now my foot is covered in mank". I looked it up in the full OED (I'm at work and can acccess is) and discovered that as a noun, mank can officially mean a blood disorder, a practical joke or a flaw, none of which are what I mean by mank. I guess I mean "nasty stuff, probably slimy or smelly or both".

Manky as an adjective is also there. Apparently it either means naughty or "Bad, inferior, defective; dirty, disgusting, unpleasant". I guess this latter definition is what I would use, but would tend to be implying " dirty, disgusting, unpleasant, slimy, smelly" rather than generally bad or inferior.

Best wishes,

Rachel.
 

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Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
A friend of ours in Orkney uses the word "tarf" to mean wet, windy weather; I think it covers weather that's worse than "dreich" but not as bad as "coorse" [coarse], which means really stormy*.

We've asked various other Orcadians if they've come across the term, but we're gradually coming to the conclusion that it's just him.

* Of course it's all relative: what a soft Southerner would call "stormy" an Orcadian would probably call "a bit breezy".
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Ah, one of those words would probably describe our last day in Orkney the other week, when we couldn't go to Skara Brae because the sea was breaking over the cliffs and the guides could not stay vertical on the narrow paths above the holes down into the houses because of the wind. (We had to make do with a replica house by the visitor centre.) Not sure which would apply, though.
 

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Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :
 

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Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:

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prophet: Frisian, that sort of Dutch-German fusion

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More of a Dutch-Anglo fusion.

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no prophet: My father's family originated where Germany, Netherlands and France have all owned the territory. There was a rumour of an English midlands coal miner of ill repute in two countries who could be responsible from the 1870s. The one who uses these word is my father's cousin who speaks German and and some form of Frisian. No English for him.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Penny S:
... the guides could not stay vertical on the narrow paths above the holes down into the houses because of the wind ... Not sure which would apply, though.

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If the guides couldn't stay vertical, that's coorse. Verging on right coorse, in fact.
 

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Posted by que sais-je (# 17185) on :
 
Bring back dustsceawung an Anglo-Saxon word for contemplating the dust. Useful both when housework is overdue or when one is most aware of the transitory nature of life.

Algebraic Geometry (not often mentioned on SoF) uses the word 'syzygy' taken from astronomy. I've never had occasion to use it .... alas.
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
I love the West Country term "grockle", as a derogatory word for tourists.

Down in Cornwall, they use the term "emmet", which means "ant". But they be furreners down there, so we don't pay any attention to 'em....

When I was growing up, it was common practice to use the word "pikey" for the local gypsy communities. As far as I can remember, it didn't have quite the same pejorative meaning that it now does.
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Doesn't the Isle of Wight have "overners" for people "over the waters", i.e. on the mainland?

Or is it used for former mainland-dwellers who have moved to the Isle?

[ 09. October 2014, 18:09: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

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Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 
And on Portland the term is "Kimberlin"
 

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Posted by Motylos (# 18216) on :
 
When we lived in North Lincolnshire, we called those across the Humber ‘Tykes’, while they called us ‘Yellowbellies’. The latter term, as far as I could discover, stems from the 17th century, when Lincolnshire men signed up for the New Model Army of Parliament and wire buff leather coats as part of their uniform.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
... former mainland-dwellers who have moved to the Isle?

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In Orkney they're called ferryloupers.

In Newfoundland they're called CFAs (Comes From Away).
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I suppose there could be an argument that all Orkney inhabitants are ferryloupers, since none of them, from Mesolithic hunter gatherers on, walked there. (Homeric joke from the Odyssey.)
 

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Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by que sais-je:
Bring back dustsceawung an Anglo-Saxon word for contemplating the dust. Useful both when housework is overdue or when one is most aware of the transitory nature of life.

Algebraic Geometry (not often mentioned on SoF) uses the word 'syzygy' taken from astronomy. I've never had occasion to use it .... alas.

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quote:

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Originally posted by que sais-je:
Bring back dustsceawung an Anglo-Saxon word for contemplating the dust. Useful both when housework is overdue or when one is most aware of the transitory nature of life.

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Jesus was obviously into the process of dūstscēawung when he was asked to pass judgement on the woman caught in adultery (and where was the man?) in the addition to John 8. Obviously it has a dominical authority to it!

Scēawung is cognate to the word ‘scavage’ — so today maybe it would ‘dustscavaging’?
 

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Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Motylos:
When we lived in North Lincolnshire, we called those across the Humber ‘Tykes’, while they called us ‘Yellowbellies’.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Motylos:
...so today maybe it would ‘dustscavaging’?

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