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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Saying grace before meals
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I read the Kempistry guidelines and saw
quote:
cooking special food over favourite prayers
I have no idea what that means, but I would like to discuss cooking special prayers over favourite food - or, more prosaically, saying grace.
Do you say it? Why? Why not? Out loud? Silently? Over every meal? At home? At a restaurant? If sometimes but not always, what is the dividing line? Can we discern national differences here?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
Growing up, my parents always made sure we said grace before cooked meals but not usually before more ad hoc 'snacky' meals.
Having come from a conservative Anglican background, they were quite set into patterns of saying prayers at certain times and for certain events.
I've rather moved away from that and make prayer more of a way of life, rather than something to be slotted into your schedule. So I tend to pray silently (or sometimes muttering) as I go round the shops, picking up the food to cook I'm going to cook. This does have the downside of having awkward moments when somebody later says, "shall we say grace" just as I've put a chip in my mouth.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
My kids brought the practice into our home from their RC primary school, and we stick to it. Elder kid (9) 'feels funny' if we don't say it. This includes her bringing it up in atheist friends' houses if we share a meal, where I would have let it slip. I'm proud of her and of course support her with solid amens. At the same time she sometimes reminds me of me at that age - riven with guilt about odd things, and not peaceful inside. Or just less 'compromised', to use a word people used to knock about a lot when I was small. I don't know, but I'm very glad we pray.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
This does have the downside of having awkward moments when somebody later says, "shall we say grace" just as I've put a chip in my mouth.
My father-in-law used to say, pointedly, "that bit won't do you any good". But we still say grace at sit-down-to-table meals in this house.
I find it's one of the few remaining times in the day when we actually pause and think about God's provision for us. And once you've got the tradition installed, it seems rather, um, graceless to drop it.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
Without wishing to sound like the family of my avatar, we do try and say grace before every meal - to the extent that my wife and I do so even when we're eating without the children: we even use "their" grace!
I guess it's one of those things Mrs Stejjie and I always did when we were young and we've carried it on - I also wonder if it can be a way of remembering to pray throughout the day?
And yes, it is sometimes rather rushed in our house or said through a mouthful of food or after half the plate's been eaten (so that Mrs Stejjie will sometimes add "and for what we've already eaten" at the end). I guess the children probably see it as something we have to do at the start of a meal before we get to eat and I'm sure I saw it the same when I was their age, so I don't blame them.
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I silently say grace before a meal. Also when I have guests in my house I ask for a moment of silence. I don't do this when I'm in a restaurant with people (although I'll slip in a silent grace myself).
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
I didn't grow up with the tradition of saying grace but husband and I decided at some point to start main cooked meals with a prayer. I can't really remember whether we started doing this before we had children. But we don't normally say grace at breakfast although sometimes I mutter my own silent thanks if I think of it at that time of day. Occasionally we say grace over our sandwich lunch but more so when we are with others who we know are in the habit of doing so!
One of our children finds it hard to know what to say when praying aloud with others. Does anyone know of a good resource for some set graces that we could look at using some of the time?
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:
One of our children finds it hard to know what to say when praying aloud with others. Does anyone know of a good resource for some set graces that we could look at using some of the time?
You could always go for a table grace die, which I personally think is more in the "Gadgets for God" league than anything else. The "sales argument" is hilarious, too, complete with proof text: quote:
Casting lots is a scriptural way to make a choice. The eleven Apostles chose Matthias to succeed Judas Iscariot as one of the Twelve Apostles by casting lots (Acts 1:15-26).
Guaranteed to work about six times, I would think!
In France, in protestant circles, there are quite a lot of sung graces (which have never caught on in our family but which we do use at church meals). I can probably point you to some, albeit in French.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
We could do graces in French! Our kids having done all their schooling in French school are now more fluent than their parents! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
[ 05. September 2014, 12:39: Message edited by: Lucia ]
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Can I share a theory I have about grace before meals? I've a hunch that, before it was ever attached to any particular religion, it was a sort of acknowledgement (if the meal contained meat) that for us to be fed, a life had been taken. That's why I think it's actually terribly important, and why I always say at least a mental prayer of thanksgiving before I eat.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:
We could do graces in French! Our kids having done all their schooling in French school are now more fluent than their parents!
Hehe!
Toi qui disposes (traditional version, first verse); alternative, to the tune of "oh when the saints". To spare the hosts, I won't link to more, but that last page sends you to lots of others. The ones I know there are:
"nous te disons merci"; "seigneur toi qui donne pâture": "pour ce repas (swing)" and "compte les bienfaits de Dieu" ('count your blessings' in Engilsh). So that's one more than the "dice graces" already, and free to boot ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Now imagine that granny in the Norman Rockwell painting singing one in the middle of the restaurant.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:
One of our children finds it hard to know what to say when praying aloud with others. Does anyone know of a good resource for some set graces that we could look at using some of the time?
You could always go for a table grace die, which I personally think is more in the "Gadgets for God" league than anything else. The "sales argument" is hilarious, too, complete with proof text: quote:
Casting lots is a scriptural way to make a choice. The eleven Apostles chose Matthias to succeed Judas Iscariot as one of the Twelve Apostles by casting lots (Acts 1:15-26).
Guaranteed to work about six times, I would think!
My sister found the Grace Cube (same thing as Eutychus', but without the thees and thous) very effective for her kiddies. They were getting bored of grace for a while, and the 'game' element of this revived their interest, as well as giving them some words to say. They have grown out of it now, but they each have a fund of at least 6 graces that they can say whenever. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I don't know if there are any sung graces before a meal in the Netherlands, I've never encountered them. There are some sung prayers before a child goes to bed. This is the one my parents sung with me.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
This might one for a poll? Do you say it? Aloud or silent? Is it thanksgiving, petition etc? Is it a set prayer or made up just then? When do you refrain from grace?
My family has stopped formal grace in lieu of acknowledging each other and glad we are together and safe, with our understanding having developed that God doesn't really provide food, protection or anything else material.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
My inlaws often have a sung grace when family are round, usually 'All good gifts around us', and sometimes sung in the round.
We seem to have got out of the habit in our home and I sometimes wish we'd say grace more often. I think it is because my husband often isn't home when we eat so it doesn't feel right; we sometimes say it at weekends when we are all together. But I'd like to pray together more as a family anyway, let alone say grace.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I don't know if there are any sung graces before a meal in the Netherlands, I've never encountered them. There are some sung prayers before a child goes to bed. This is the one my parents sung with me.
That's originally the famous German poem "Müde bin ich" by Luise Hensel, sister of the German composer Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy. The melody that you likely learned is from the German folk song "Taler, Taler, du musst wandern". The combination became one of the most popular good night songs for children in Germany, a (rather recent!) tradition that I guess must have spilled over into the Netherlands at some point in time...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
IngoB: That's originally the famous German poem "Müde bin ich" by Luise Hensel, sister of the German composer Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy. The melody that you likely learned is from the German folk song "Taler, Taler, du musst wandern". The combination became one of the most popular good night songs for children in Germany, a (rather recent!) tradition that I guess must have spilled over into the Netherlands at some point in time...
Thank you, I didn't know that. Yes, the text is that of Hensel's poem (allowing for some free translation). The melody differs a bit from Taler, Taler after the second line, but I guess that's something that can happen in adaptation.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
We say grace before dinner, and also before lunch if it's a "proper" meal as opposed to a sandwich.
We've had some interesting discussions over the years with our children regarding grace. E.g. If you don't like your vegetables and are only eating them under parental duress, should you be able to exempt said veg from grace, on the grounds that saying that you're grateful when you're not would be lying to God?
(As if trying to get them to eat their greens wasn't hard enough without adding a theological dimension ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) )
[ 06. September 2014, 17:49: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
I don't say grace before my meals. I grew up with saying it, but for me, it was meaningless. I thank God spontaneously when I go shopping and find good things to eat on the bargain shelf, and I sometimes thank God spontaneously while I'm eating, because I like my food and I am grateful for it. But for some reason, the ritual of saying grace before my meal has never been a meaningful thing for me and I can't associate it with the spontaneous thanks I give God at other times - perhaps because I grew up with it being just a ritual, rather than meaningful thanks.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Always when we sit at the table together, which is most evenings and lunch in the winter when the children are home.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
My parents still say grace - out loud at home, silently in restaurants. But it's not something I'd want to carry on. That doesn't mean I'm not grateful, though!
As children, we used to sing grace before school lunch every day:
Thank you for the world so sweet,
Thank you for the food we eat,
Thankyou for the birds that sing,
Thank you God for everything.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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OddJob
Shipmate
# 17591
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Posted
I gave up at the age of 10 when it consisted of giving thanks for the 1970s northern England diet of boiled potatoes (seen as a principal food group in those days) and something even less palatable such as boiled cabbage.
Later I appreciated the sentiment and feel it's better to give thanks spontaneously for receiving a pleasant surprise or for being fortunate/able to achieve much, such as managing to complete a run on a sunny day on a par with folk 20 years younger.
Posts: 97 | From: West Midlands | Registered: Mar 2013
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
I find that a silent grace before eating, and the Lord's Prayer, and the Serenity Prayer, are the only prayers I can pray these days. (And liturgical prayers when I'm at church.) Also I can sing (even when not in church) sung things that I know from church, whether it be anthems, hymns, or service music. Everything else ties me up in too much knots of confusion.
Lectio Divina, on another thread, seems like something I can do, but it doesn't seem like prayer to me (which I say as a positive thing, given how confused I am by prayer).
[ 13. September 2014, 23:04: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Can I share a theory I have about grace before meals? I've a hunch that, before it was ever attached to any particular religion, it was a sort of acknowledgement (if the meal contained meat) that for us to be fed, a life had been taken. That's why I think it's actually terribly important, and why I always say at least a mental prayer of thanksgiving before I eat.
Wow, we think alike.
I wrote somewhere on the Ship before about watching an episode of Gordon Ramsey's "'F Word." in which he was saying goodbye to his pigs at the abattoir. He told them what good pigs they were, and how he'd miss them, and how sorry he was it had to be this way-- then he stopped and said, " dunno what to say, really."
"Thank you!" I shouted at the TV set. " say 'thank you!"
And yeah, that lead to thought about humans entering the agricultural era, and hand- raising their food, and the natural affection that arises from a person when they take care of something...
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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CuppaT
Shipmate
# 10523
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Posted
My youngest says a full grace before everything he eats. This means that if he goes and gets a cookie and milk, he is going to set them down on the table before carrying them into the computer room and stop and stand before the icons and raise his hands and say the Lord's Prayer and then grace.
I admit, this drives me a little nuts. But how do you tell him that he is overdoing it? Once when I was confessing that I overate, the priest told me that I should be thankful for everything that I put in my mouth. My son does this better than I do.
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
Posts: 919 | From: the edge of the Ozarks | Registered: Oct 2005
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Jude
Shipmate
# 3033
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Posted
Oh how I loathe that song that says "in this house we're gonna say grace". It just seems so pious to me. I could never sing it at our old church. And yet at our house on Sunday evening we DO say Grace. But not on other days, which we used to, as I remember when I was little. Maybe it's just gone out of fashion ...
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"...But I always want to know the things one shouldn’t do.”
“So as to do them?” asked her aunt.
“So as to choose,” said Isabel.
Henry James - The Portrait of A Lady
Posts: 233 | From: A town with four parishes | Registered: Jul 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
CuppaT: But how do you tell him that he is overdoing it?
To be honest, I think it's a phase.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
My youngest says a full grace before everything he eats. This means that if he goes and gets a cookie and milk, he is going to set them down on the table before carrying them into the computer room and stop and stand before the icons and raise his hands and say the Lord's Prayer and then grace.
I admit, this drives me a little nuts. But how do you tell him that he is overdoing it? Once when I was confessing that I overate, the priest told me that I should be thankful for everything that I put in my mouth. My son does this better than I do.
Check he doesn't think something terrible will happen if he doesn't say it.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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CuppaT
Shipmate
# 10523
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Posted
Never thought of that. Good idea.
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
Posts: 919 | From: the edge of the Ozarks | Registered: Oct 2005
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itsarumdo
Shipmate
# 18174
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
My youngest says a full grace before everything he eats. This means that if he goes and gets a cookie and milk, he is going to set them down on the table before carrying them into the computer room and stop and stand before the icons and raise his hands and say the Lord's Prayer and then grace.
I admit, this drives me a little nuts. But how do you tell him that he is overdoing it? Once when I was confessing that I overate, the priest told me that I should be thankful for everything that I put in my mouth. My son does this better than I do.
I'd say it's an admirable level of self-awareness
Why not ask what he thinks about when he does it - rather than assuming something negative from the outset?
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"Iti sapis potanda tinone" Lycophron
Posts: 994 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Jul 2014
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