Ship of Fools: Ascesis (including various forms of fasting)

Thread: Ascesis (including various forms of fasting) Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

How do people incorporate ascesis into their prayer life? And why? There is some danger in this, as we're not meant to boast about our fasting, but we are meant to encourage our sisters and brothers, and this board is meant to help us explore our practices.

I've never been very 'good' at fasting (the not eating anything kind). Maybe that's it's greatest value in my life, that twice I year I do something that I know I'm no good at. I just do the two mandatory(ish) Catholic fast, Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

More helpful to me are other forms of ascesis. During Lent, I generally give up both dessert and alcohol. Not that I have either frequently, but I feel the force of not being able to seek pleasure in so easy a way. Last Lent, I also took up the practice of parking in inconvenient parking spaces which was a very basic act of service and reminder that I'm to think humbly of others as superior to myself.

Living in small community with two others who don't want to go meatless on Fridays (which I used to do), I've had to find something else to do as a regular Friday practice. I've taken up wearing less comfortable clothing (and whenever I do laundry, I arrange my piles so as such clothing will automatically come up on Fridays). I don't wear anything painful, but things that I notice and remind me of what should be a weekly remembrance of Christ's Passion.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

I 'got out of' fasting as a teenager when I went to daily mass after or before my paper round.

I used to faint until the vicar told me always to eat breakfast BEFORE Communion.

I have obeyed ever since!

But it is something I ought to review.

Posted by Jenn. (# 5239) on :

I've been struggling with the idea of fasting for some time. It's something I think I ought to do, but I don't really know why somehow. I get the idea that it might be 'training' not to gratify 'fleshly desires' and to rely on God instead, but I'd love it if people could help me to understand better why the ascetic practices are useful in their relationships with God.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

The short answer is that if you are praying with fasting then feeling hungry reminds you to pray.

Or it can be an accidental fast, you spend longer than intended meditating and forget to eat.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

quote:
And why?

I fast from food, because I'm an absent-minded pig. I have a problem with gluttony, and fasting helps me deal with it, and appreciate my food. It's good for me physically and spiritually. My discipline comes and goes - I think I'd value the accountability of communal living.

Fasting also turns-back-on neural chains which have got burned out by over-stimulation. When I have stuck to a serious Lenten fast (no meat, sugar, tea, coffee, beer) it's amazing that cabbage starts to taste of things. This also works for me with music, TV, and internet - currently another gluttony problem brewing. Fasting renews surprise, amazement, thankfulness. It is about enjoying things more, not less.

I've posted this poem on the ship before, but please read it - it's lovely.

Kavanagh - "Advent"

[ 10. September 2014, 18:14: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]

Posted by EloiseA (# 18029) on :

Small and regular practices of self-denial seem to be helpful for me, erode selfishness and tiresome niggly preoccupations. The ascetic practices don't feel like deprivation but they take effort and attention. They are also a way of reminding myself that it is all about God and not myself.

Fasting is something I do regularly, along with eating fish on Fridays. During Lent I keep my life very simple and fast quite strictly. Attending midnight vigils where there is exposition of the Blessed Sacrament (this is an ordeal for me because I battle to stay awake much as I love the vigil) doing voluntary service for those in hospice, visiting the ill and lonely, writing letters to those in prison. When I am praying for those going through tragedy or a life crisis, I do all-night prayer vigils and have a Mass said for a special intention, light candles and do novenas. I also do some things that feel penitential or intended to mortify the flesh: praying on my knees for a long time on the bare floor, washing in cold water in winter, doing long pilgrimages on foot when possible, offering up these insignificant sacrifices in the hope the Beloved may use them.

No matter how I write this out and this is my fifth attempt, it sounds masochistic and anachronistic, but something here is necessary and has led me into a new kind of freedom to be there for God. I have attended daily Mass every day when possible for all my adult life and organise my routines around Mass, prayer and service. This might be unusual for laity but I know many older and young religious who do this and much more in their lives of dedication.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

quote:
it sounds masochistic and anachronistic

I don't think so, the way you've described it - though I am not RC and I imagine I'd personally struggle with the form of much of your practice. I'd apply the usual 'fruits of the spirit' test to it. If it leaves you pissed off, fuming or despairing, then something is amiss. But this is not what you are describing.

Posted by EloiseA (# 18029) on :

Thanks, Mark. My spiritual director is one of those very sensible and level-headed old Carmelites who dislike anything excessive or 'unhealthy' and he is fine with it.

As you say, the 'fruits of the spirit'.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:

quote:
it sounds masochistic and anachronistic
If it leaves you pissed off, fuming or despairing, then something is amiss. But this is not what you are describing.

Unless you are already pissed off, fuming or despairing and it helps you to get through these feelings, then it is useful. Even if it initially takes you deeper in to the negative feelings in order to get through them.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

Yes. Perhaps we'd better refer folks to your 'bastard' thread to take this angle further!

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

As * have been taught, but can't remember where, there are supposed to be three sorts of fast - not that * do this!

1. Total, no food, no liquid. Impossible to follow for more than about 3 days, and quite dangerous well before then.

2. No food, but water allowed. 40 days is about the limit, and even then, not without some sort of medical advice, before the system starts eating itself. This is the sort Jesus did in the wilderness. It was about that point when Satan tempted him to turn stones into bread.

3. Limited diet, e.g. vegetarian, smaller quantities etc, probably no alcohol. Suitable for Lent for ordinary people. Hard work but provided in reasonable health and making sure one gets the necessary nutrients, including the ones that are missing because one isn't eating X, probably good rather than bad for the health. Intermittently, can be kept up indefinitely.

All are for a purpose, to train the body, sharpen the spirit, and roused on God, not on the fast or the health results.

Shipmates might be interested in The Mount Athos Diet which is largely written from the health standpoint, but is quite interesting.

Incidentally, * thought the asterisk business doesn't apply to this board, but it seems to have attacked it.

Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:

quote:
it sounds masochistic and anachronistic
If it leaves you pissed off, fuming or despairing, then something is amiss. But this is not what you are describing.
Unless you are already pissed off, fuming or despairing and it helps you to get through these feelings, then it is useful. Even if it initially takes you deeper in to the negative feelings in order to get through them.

I agree with this - and I think my angle fits better here than the 'God, you bastard' thread. I find fasting can provide a focused way to work through strong feelings of hurt and anger. The fasting can intensify those feelings (there is always a feeling of relief after eating - emotional as well as physical) and make me pursue them more single-mindedly to work through them rather than avoid them. I pray with more intensity, with more clarity of focus. This may not be the case for everyone, but it is for me. I generally do the kind of fast where I eat a little, and I find it helps with sensory overload, because my mind and body can get overwhelmed with too much input, and fasting can quieten me and focus me, and then I can see clearly to bring negative emotions and experiences to the surface and deal with them. It is a tool that God has used powerfully in my life.

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

I suck at fasting. [Frown]

I may have blood sugar issues but I also am sure that I am inclined to use that as an excuse.

It also has never seemed to me to help me get closer to God.

As for other ascetic practices in my life that honestly seem to help me with my faith, whether or not they might seem more ascetic, less ascetic, or just plain weird may vary from person to person. (See the Liturgical Prayer at Home thread.)

Posted by Circuit Rider (# 13088) on :

I have a general practice of fasting two days a week, on days I am working on Sunday sermons. I began last year before Lent when I faced some of the darkest days of my life during a serious family issue.

At first I ate toast and water for meals and then moved to total abstinence. I am able to handle a 24-hour period although it is still difficult.

Fasting is beneficial to me and I'll keep up the practice.

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