Ship of Fools: Who's celebrating March 12th and how?

Thread: Who's celebrating March 12th and how? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

20 years ago, on that day, the first batch of women were priested in the C.of E.

I was there and remember it well.

One of those women will be p[residing on the Sunday after and I will be preaching - trying to tweak an already written sermon based on the OT reading about the call of Abraham.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

I will be celebrating the feast of St Gregory the Great and commemorating the Ember Day.

Posted by Vade Mecum (# 17688) on :

That's an amusing acid test: to celebrate the founding of the English Church, or to mark the anniversary of innovation?

Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on :

The Church in England goes back to the 2nd/3rd centuries (St Alban for example) and so the Augustinian mission was to re-found the church in those lands. And the question of whether women priest are an 'innovation' is probably a matter for Dead Horses rather than Eccles?

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

I know two women who were ordained that weekend and there is a big celebration planned in London later in the Spring, with services in Westminster Abbey and St Paul's with a pilgrimage from one to the other.

Posted by Vade Mecum (# 17688) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
The Church in England goes back to the 2nd/3rd centuries (St Alban for example) and so the Augustinian mission was to re-found the church in those lands. And the question of whether women priest are an 'innovation' is probably a matter for Dead Horses rather than Eccles?

Hardly. At the risk of prolonging the tangent, the purported OoW is clearly an innovation, at least compared to 1500+ years of history, probably in re the totality.

And since the English Church was distinctly Roman - indeed, unusually Roman-of-the-City - from the time of Augustine till the 'reformation', and claims to pseudo-'celtic' heritage are fairly meaningless. Without the Gregorian mission there would have been no Christianity in these isles.

Besides all of which, the comment was offered in jest as an amusing (to me) aside.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

I would have hoped it didn't need saying but it appears it does. The discussion of the merits of the ordination of women belongs in Dead Horses. This thread should be confined to discussion of celebrations and observances relating to the anniversary of such ordinations in the Church of England.

seasick, Eccles host

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Part of me thinks that women priests are now taken for granted so there is no need to celebrate.

The other part of me thinks that we should celebrate the lives of many faithful women who waited for years.

Which is why I am linking it to the lectionary reading for Lent 2, when Abraham goes on a l;arge journey and is not made very welcome when he gets there.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Given that our place is F-in-F (chiz chiz chiz), I somehow doubt if any celebrations will be taking place.....though it is only fair to say that AFAIK the great majority of our folk have no problem with the OoW. (If you really, really, want to know why we still have Resolutions A, B and C, PM me!)

Having said that, I will now (having been reminded) hoist up a quiet prayer for our local women priests (there are five in this Deanery, including our Area Dean), giving thanks for the fact that they are busily ministering away in some difficult parishes........

Ian J.

Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :

Guildford Cathedral on 10 May - time 3 o'clock, I think; when there is to be such a service in thanksgiving for 20 years of women's ordained ministry.

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

I might watch a Vicar of Dibley episode or two.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:

Without the Gregorian mission there would have been no Christianity in these isles.

You are taking the piss, aren't you?

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ken:

quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:

Without the Gregorian mission there would have been no Christianity in these isles.

You are taking the piss, aren't you?

ken - this may well be your opinion but I'm sure you know better than to pursue it here!

dj_ordinaire, Eccles etc.

Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:

quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
The Church in England goes back to the 2nd/3rd centuries (St Alban for example) and so the Augustinian mission was to re-found the church in those lands. And the question of whether women priest are an 'innovation' is probably a matter for Dead Horses rather than Eccles?
Hardly. At the risk of prolonging the tangent, the purported OoW is clearly an innovation, at least compared to 1500+ years of history, probably in re the totality.

And since the English Church was distinctly Roman - indeed, unusually Roman-of-the-City - from the time of Augustine till the 'reformation', and claims to pseudo-'celtic' heritage are fairly meaningless. Without the Gregorian mission there would have been no Christianity in these isles.

Besides all of which, the comment was offered in jest as an amusing (to me) aside.

Funny how these waspish little jests are only amusing to the people who make them. However, we continue.

If you really think there was no viable Christianity in 'these isles' before Augustine, then I'm afraid you really need to do a little more research. I'm a little less clear on the origins of the church in Scotland but I can absolutely tell you that in Wales, the church was up and running, well organised and well arranged, with llans, dioceses and bishops long before Augustine turned up.

Have a look on Wikipedia, at the very least. Start with:

Llantwit Major
St Illtud
St Davids (the city)
Saint Cadfan (the person)

And have a think: why did they need a synod at Whitby to determine the date of Easter if there was nothing to speak of going on?

Engage brain before operating computer. A good rule in life, as on the Ship.

Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Panda:
I'm a little less clear on the origins of the church in Scotland

(Apologies for prolonging the tangent)

St. Columba founded the monastery at Iona in about 563, thirty years before St. Augustine arrived in Kent (with the intent of turning Angli into Anglicans).

The north of what is now England was evangelized by the "barefoot saints" who spread from Scotland via Lindisfarne (founded 634).

The Parker Library in Corpus Christ College Cambridge holds one of the finest collections of mediaeval manuscripts in the world. These were gathered by Archbishop Matthew Parker partly with the intent of showing the historical independence from Rome of the Church in England.

Not believing that it is all down to Augustine of Canterbury has historical precedent!

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

More on the tangent
What on earth does "Roman-of-the-City" mean?

And what do controversialists use the phrase to express? Has it got something to do with Anglo-Papalism v Sarum usage/Percy Dearmer?

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
More on the tangent
What on earth does "Roman-of-the-City" mean?

And what do controversialists use the phrase to express? Has it got something to do with Anglo-Papalism v Sarum usage/Percy Dearmer?

Yes. It's suggesting that the Pre-Reformation Church in England was more closely aligned with the liturgical practices of Rome than the Dearmer/Sarum/Prayer-Book Catholic types would claim.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Bristol Cathedral, where it all happened, says they're going to wait until the 25th anniversary to celebrate it.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
More on the tangent
What on earth does "Roman-of-the-City" mean?

And what do controversialists use the phrase to express? Has it got something to do with Anglo-Papalism v Sarum usage/Percy Dearmer?
Yes. It's suggesting that the Pre-Reformation Church in England was more closely aligned with the liturgical practices of Rome than the Dearmer/Sarum/Prayer-Book Catholic types would claim.

Two questions one for the historical experts and the other for the rest of us:-
1. Is this true?
2. Does it matter?

Posted by Gottschalk (# 13175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
More on the tangent
What on earth does "Roman-of-the-City" mean?

And what do controversialists use the phrase to express? Has it got something to do with Anglo-Papalism v Sarum usage/Percy Dearmer?
Yes. It's suggesting that the Pre-Reformation Church in England was more closely aligned with the liturgical practices of Rome than the Dearmer/Sarum/Prayer-Book Catholic types would claim.
Two questions one for the historical experts and the other for the rest of us:-
1. Is this true?
2. Does it matter?

1. No
2. No

Those people want to foist their agenda of liturgical uniformity upon history and upon us - the scholarship of Wickham-Legg, Frere, et al, is here, to put the lie to such attempts.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

If you feel the need to include a phrase like "apologies for prolonging the tangent" or "more on the tangent" at the top of your post, then I would suggest that you consider whether you should be making the post at all. [Hint: The answer is no.] As I ruled before, this thread should be confined to discussion of celebrations and observances relating to the anniversary of the ordination of women in the Church of England. Any more of tangents or anything else other than on topic discussion and we will close the thread.

seasick, Eccles host

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

The 25 still alive from the original 32 were encouraged to return to the church where they did their first mass so both our churches had women presiding this morning.

One had wine afterwards, the other didn't because the priest concerned had given it up for Lent.

Bumper attendances as many who'd moved away over the past 20 years returned for occasion.
Here's to the 25th anniversary.

Posted by Thurible (# 3206) on :

I am related to one of them. God's sense of humour, hey?

Thurible

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