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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Ashing infants
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
At what age do you think children should start receiving ashes? Yesterday, I ashed anyone who approached me for them, and if a little one was carried up in someone's arms, I'd ask the carrier if they wanted ashes for the one being carried. But, on reflection, I wonder how much sense it makes to ash someone who is very young.
The two formulae available to us are "Remember you are dust and to dust you shall return" and "Repent and believe the Gospel." Kids under seven in general can't repent, because they don't have any personal sin they're responsible for. Under a certain age, they also can't remember they are dust because that's a symbolic stretch too far. Is it appropriate to give an instruction that someone can't possibly respond to?
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Surely. The baby's holder will hear it, if no one else. And if we baptize babies (with all the teaching and exhortation that usually goes on around the ceremony, which only the adults will listen to and--hopefully--grasp), why not ash them?
[ 06. March 2014, 13:25: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179
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Posted
My 4 year old grandson was ashed at his Church School yesterday. The children were given a choice whether or not they wanted to, several chose not to, he was proud to receive the ashes like his teachers and was happy to discuss the meaning with me over the phone later.
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Maius intra qua extra
Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box
Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001
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Beeswax Altar
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# 11644
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Posted
Babies are but dust and to dust shall they return.
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leaf
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# 14169
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Posted
Interesting question, Hart. Thanks!
I suppose like Lamb Chopped I thought about the "overhearing" aspect of communal ritual participation. Strangely, sometimes overhearing can have more impact than direct speech. I may (unworthily) have my mind on the grocery list while receiving communion, but when I hear and see that the Body of Christ is given to my neighbour - a complete idiot - in that overhearing I realize that it is also given to a complete idiot like me.
I see what you mean about instruction: "Remember" and "Repent" are instructions, but perhaps they are not only for the individual but for the whole community.
Pastorally, ashing is a powerful reminder that clergy may be called upon to preside over the funeral of any of those receiving ashes... including babies. Where the baptismal cross was placed, the ash cross is placed, and a final cross of earth may be placed above. It's a keen reminder of both the power of death and the even greater power of the cross.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Pastorally, ashing is a powerful reminder that clergy may be called upon to preside over the funeral of any of those receiving ashes... including babies. Where the baptismal cross was placed, the ash cross is placed, and a final cross of earth may be placed above. It's a keen reminder of both the power of death and the even greater power of the cross.
This is beautiful. I try to make a similar connection whenever I preside at a baptism by pointing out the paschal candle: first lit at Easter, lit at each baptism, lit at each funeral.
I also see the merit of looking at repentance as a communal activity. We use Joel 2:12-18 as the first reading on that day, and Joel invited "infants at the breast" to be part of the community lament. I went to an interesting talk yesterday about lament being a pre-rational activity. Of course, lamentation is broader than repenting, but it's not like there's no connection there.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
At what age do you think children should start receiving ashes?
At any age. We're Catholic, the ashes are blessed and they are sacramentals. Among other things, you're building powerful memories for the child using the language of symbols. Even before the age of reason that child is being evangelized through signs and gestures that, the Lord willing, will form an anchor for the instruction he will receive later in the Faith.
There's a short article that touches on ashes and children right here.
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
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3rdFooter
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# 9751
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Posted
There were two boys of about 5 and 7 in the congo and I ashes them both. They were fascinated and perhaps most by the novelty of the occasion. But if novelty leads to curiosity and curiosity to exploration and hence understanding then maybe the ashes have done part of what they were meant for.
3F
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3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom
Posts: 602 | From: outskirts of Babylon | Registered: Jul 2005
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3rdFooter
Shipmate
# 9751
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
Kids under seven in general can't repent, because they don't have any personal sin they're responsible for.
Really?? Seven year olds have no sin? It might be forty years ago but I doubt I was unique in my deviousness, greed, quaraling with my sibling and so on. If I wasn't responsible then who was? When fairly faced with what I'd done and the consequences, I was repentant as the next sinner.
I am honest about the reality of sin with the school assembly and they don't seem to struggle grasping the concept.
Whether children really grasp the connection between the symbol of ashes and repentance is arguable but let's not overdo the age of innocence thing.
3F
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3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom
Posts: 602 | From: outskirts of Babylon | Registered: Jul 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
My only concern would be the small one's sensitive skin reacting to the oil and ash -- mainly the ash. It can make mine a bit red sometimes, and I'm an adult.
But as I regularly communicate any toddler who can chew and swallow bread, I see nothing at all wrong with it in principle. "Suffer the little children to come unto me," said Jesus, and I assume he meant the whole enchilada.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
[Children] [Baa-aa-aah!] under seven in general can't repent, because they don't have any personal sin they're responsible for.
I was another shipmate for whom this statement sounded wrong.
I know I'm mixing rites, so sue me. But, in the Orthodox prayer before communion of St. John Chrysostom, the communicant prays: quote:
Wherefore I pray thee, have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance; and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of thine immaculate Mysteries, unto remission of my sins and unto life everlasting.
Surely every baptized Christian sins on at least one of the axes listed (thought, word, in knowledge, in ignorance, voluntarily, involuntarily). Surely every baptized Christian can receive mercy and be made worthy to partake.
I don't think there are second-class Christians of whom seven-year-olds are an example.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
At what age do you think children should start receiving ashes?
At any age. We're Catholic, the ashes are blessed and they are sacramentals. Among other things, you're building powerful memories for the child using the language of symbols. Even before the age of reason that child is being evangelized through signs and gestures that, the Lord willing, will form an anchor for the instruction he will receive later in the Faith.
There's a short article that touches on ashes and children right here.
Thank you for that post, pancho... That was truly lovely! Having watched whole families (including some children of, I'm guessing, five or so) being ashed on Wednesday, it really resonates.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
Hmm. On Ash Wednesday the celebrant offered to ash my two-year old daughter but I refused. For me the issue is sin and the awareness of it. As a parent of three (9, 6, 2) I don't believe toddlers have an awareness of sinning; they behave almost entirely on instinct.
I had a doctrine teacher who held the position that original sin was clearly manifested in a one-year old who thumped another baby who took a toy off him. I argued that original sin was our propensity to do the wrong thing when we know what the right thing is, and this one-year old knew no better than to protect what was his. Sin, wrongdoing, even naughtiness didn't enter into it.
Slightly older children, yes. If I'd had my 6-yr old with me, certainly. He knows the difference between what he should and shouldn't do. But babies and toddlers - not for me. And if I need a reminder that baby and toddler funerals happen every day, that's a point I make to myself, not by visibly emphasising the mortality of the two-year old who's with me now.
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Heheheheh. My eight-month-old son managed to lie to me, knowingly, when he was pre-verbal.
Picture this:
Baby is used to drinking mother's milk from a bottle (feeding issues, grrrr). Discovers that by lying on his back and shaking the thing vigorously, he can make it squirt out the top and splatter everything from his face upward. Gets scolded soundly several times for doing so, as mother's milk is not so easily come by that we can afford to waste it (little PITA).
One morning I come into the room unexpectedly, to see him lying on his back, bottle in both hands, and polka dots of milk ALL OVER HIS FACE. It's obvious what he has just finished doing. He catches sight of me and gives me the most absurdly innocent "I did nothing, what!" look you ever saw.
I wish I had a picture. Dang, that was crystal clear. Wee monster! Had to go out of the room to laugh so he wouldn't be encouraged by it.
Still, relatively innocent as it was, and even adorable, it was still nascent sin, and as such clearly proof that the kid is part of the same human race who needs Jesus.
Ash my baby? Hell yes.
[ 07. March 2014, 20:07: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Pastorally, ashing is a powerful reminder that clergy may be called upon to preside over the funeral of any of those receiving ashes... including babies. Where the baptismal cross was placed, the ash cross is placed, and a final cross of earth may be placed above. It's a keen reminder of both the power of death and the even greater power of the cross.
Beautifully written, Leaf.
This sermon , titled "Truth, Dust, Babies and Funerals" by popular Lutheran Pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber, speaks to the question.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
I believe that children learn things before they are capable of understanding intellectually. They pick up atmosphere and know that they are part of something meaningful. The intellectual understanding can come later and will catch up with the rest.
We had a tot of about 2 in the congregation, who was brought up for ashing. His face afterwards was awestruck, of course he didn’t understand it (but then I’m not sure that all the adults did) but he knew he had had a real experience of something that was important.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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