Ship of Fools: Silence

Thread: Silence Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=027872

Posted by Roselyn (# 17859) on :

How long do you think a silence should last in intercessions in a "contemporary" service where the congregation is unused to silence or even quiet??

Posted by Galilit (# 16470) on :

The important thing is to announce the length of the silence so people have an idea and so they know how "deep" to go.
Nothing is so physically, mentally and spititually dangerous to the healh as being jerked out of deep prayer and nothing is so inconducive to anything positive to have people waiting for it to end or wondering when it will.
Depends what else you have around it too - song, "Taize-type" chant, readings Biblical or other, music.
I would say start with 2 minutes if people have something to think on and something before and after and then build from there as experience and comfort grow.
Good luck - it's wonderful once everyone is used to it!

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
How long do you think a silence should last in intercessions in a "contemporary" service where the congregation is unused to silence or even quiet??

I agree with Galilit, and would just add that I think it's very helpful to announce (roughly) how long a period of silence will be. Let people know what to expect.

Posted by Vade Mecum (# 17688) on :

Surely, though, nothing is less conducive to an atmosphere of reflection, or more disruptive of the rhythm of intercession and silence, than being told, examination-style, "you have two minutes to pray?"

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

Alerting the congo by calling it a 'brief silence' to bring their own prayers/thoughts, I would suggest between 30-45 seconds. Folks generally unused to silence in worship would find that plenty long enough.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

And if allowing a time of silence, at least respect it. Don't talk through it as I heard one person do once -

"And now we have a time of silence to offer out own prayers to God". After about 2 seconds "And in this silence, we can use this time to ask God whatever is on our mind..." (very short silence)"... use this silence to think about those times when ..." and so on.
[Mad]

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
Surely, though, nothing is less conducive to an atmosphere of reflection, or more disruptive of the rhythm of intercession and silence, than being told, examination-style, "you have two minutes to pray?"

I'd agree with this: a) because I'm a useless judge of how long or short something's taking and b) because it would set me more on edge than just simply "We're going to spend a short while in silence to bring our own prayers to God" - I'd be forever looking at my watch, thinking "1 minute left... 40 seconds left... oh crap, I'm supposed to be praying... bother, I've only got 30 second left, erm, please help me, God... only 10 seconds... bless everyone... time up! That was rubbish praying..."

I read a letter to the now-defunct (in print form) Baptist Times suggesting that if you leave a time of silence, then you should let it go on ever so slightly more than people are comfortable with - and that's stuck with me. I hate it when someone announces "we're going to have a time of silence" and then leaves about 10 seconds - I need time to get myself quiet internally and announcing a time limit will almost certainly work against that. So I'd leave at least the 30-45 seconds suggested by Anselmina, and probably a bit longer than that (perhaps up to 2 minutes - though that might be a bit long).

[ 13. March 2014, 11:39: Message edited by: Stejjie ]

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:

quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
Surely, though, nothing is less conducive to an atmosphere of reflection, or more disruptive of the rhythm of intercession and silence, than being told, examination-style, "you have two minutes to pray?"
I'd agree with this: a) because I'm a useless judge of how long or short something's taking and b) because it would set me more on edge than just simply "We're going to spend a short while in silence to bring our own prayers to God" - I'd be forever looking at my watch, thinking "1 minute left... 40 seconds left... oh crap, I'm supposed to be praying... bother, I've only got 30 second left, erm, please help me, God... only 10 seconds... bless everyone... time up! That was rubbish praying..."

I read a letter to the now-defunct (in print form) Baptist Times suggesting that if you leave a time of silence, then you should let it go on ever so slightly more than people are comfortable with - and that's stuck with me. I hate it when someone announces "we're going to have a time of silence" and then leaves about 10 seconds - I need time to get myself quiet internally and announcing a time limit will almost certainly work against that. So I'd leave at least the 30-45 seconds suggested by Anselmina, and probably a bit longer than that (perhaps up to 2 minutes - though that might be a bit long).

Do you find 2 minutes silence long on Remembrance Day?

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Do you find 2 minutes silence long on Remembrance Day?

No (though the way that happens in our church is a whole other story and not one that I'm particularly happy about...). And I when I said 2 minutes might be "a bit long" I didn't mean for me, personally - I tend to prefer longer, not shorter, periods of silence.

I think Remembrance Sunday is a special case though, compared to silence at other times in church, in that it's set and people know what to expect and the length will probably be announced beforehand in any case. Silence during prayers at other times tends (in my experience - YMMV) to be shorter and I get (pleasantly) surprised when it goes on longer. I don't know why, and it probably sounds nuts, but 2 minutes might feel longer in some settings than in others (eg Remembrance Sunday) - perhaps due to people's expectations?

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

Oh, and...

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
And if allowing a time of silence, at least respect it. Don't talk through it as I heard one person do once -

"And now we have a time of silence to offer out own prayers to God". After about 2 seconds "And in this silence, we can use this time to ask God whatever is on our mind..." (very short silence)"... use this silence to think about those times when ..." and so on.

I have done this before. Mea culpa - it annoys me as well...

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Guilty as charged, too ...

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Our (very occasional) Taize services have two periods of silence - 10 minutes and 5 minutes - clearly stated on the simple service paper. No problems, but it does mean the service leader/musician has to keep half an eye on the clock, though we care not about a few seconds more or less!

I think it was The Blessed Richard Giles (yes! YMMV!) who suggested that silences in the Eucharist e.g. after the prayers or the homily could be marked fore and aft by the sounding of a bell or gong........I have to say I rather warm to this idea (I like bells - we have bells and smells at Our Place), but presumably there would have to be some indication in the service sheet as to what was going on. Again, local custom/circumstances would dictate the length of such periods.

But...if you are going to have silence, please keep silence!

Ian J.

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
<snip>I think it was The Blessed Richard Giles (yes! YMMV!) who suggested that silences in the Eucharist e.g. after the prayers or the homily could be marked fore and aft by the sounding of a bell or gong........I have to say I rather warm to this idea<snip>an J.

When I was a child, the beginning and end of the silence on Remembrance Sunday used to be marked by the firing of a maroon at the local police station in the centre of town. (Possibly not suitable for a regular time of silence in church though [Devil]

)

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

I've heard more than once that a good rule of thumb for the worship leader who has just announced a moment of silence is to inwardly say the Lord's Prayer as a guide to length.

Of course, for we Quakers, that would seem like a nano-second. [Smile]

Once, when I was leading an ecumenical worship service, I did the Lord's Prayer thing as a moment of silence, and a woman said amen! very loudly after about 10 seconds. Then, while someone else was saying an extemporaneous prayer, she also cut that person off with an amen after about 10 seconds.

Clearly, silence was a challenge for her as well as prayers that were more than a sentence long. [Smile]

YMMV.

sabine

[ 13. March 2014, 15:37: Message edited by: sabine ]

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

2 minutes. Any longer and I get the giggles.

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Galilit:
Depends what else you have around it too - song, "Taize-type" chant, readings Biblical or other, music.

Do you mean before and ofter the silent period, or during it? I've been asked by several clergy persons to play background mood muzak during so-called silent times. My response was, 'Well then it wouldn't be silence would it?'

I have also been asked if I could "play silently" while such and such was going on, to which I answered, "sure, no problem" [Big Grin]

Posted by Galilit (# 16470) on :

I meant before and after - as you say "silence" should be just that.

I meant that the announcement should be in the style of "a few moments" or "a minute or two" not as if it's being timed to the second.

A Quaker friend once told me of a situation where the "yoofs" organised Meeting one day and intended silence of 10 minutes or similar reasonable-for-them silence and older people were seriously and clinically discombobulated by the truncated-for-them meditation!

Posted by gog (# 15615) on :

Last time they let me do anything involving silence at the "contemporary" worship round here which is similar to that in the OP, we had 20 minutes first for the period of Lectio Devina, and then 15-20 minutes later for the period of Ignation Examine. And the service was about an hour.

Interesting response, was most of the folks there really liked the silence.

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Galilit:
The important thing is to announce the length of the silence so people have an idea and so they know how "deep" to go.
Nothing is so physically, mentally and spititually dangerous to the healh as being jerked out of deep prayer and nothing is so inconducive to anything positive to have people waiting for it to end or wondering when it will.

Yes, was at a Taizé service the other week and the silence ended after about 5 mins and the next chant really took me by surprise. My regular Taizé service says 'around 10 mins' on the service sheet in the introductory blurb. I find this helpful as I know that I've got time to let go.

As to the OP I think it depends on what the purpose of the silence is. In intercessions I might leave a few seconds after a simple petition for people to elaborate on that petition, then have a response, then another simple petition etc, where the silences would each be quite brief, (and I'd measure by elaborating on the petition myself).* But, if going for completely silent intercessions, how about timing how long they usually take and leaving that amount of space.

Personally I'm in the group who'd like a sense of whether we're talking half a minute, 2 or 3 mins or 10 mins+ because I'd use them slightly differently.

*Unfortunately nerves got the better of me the other week and my planned pauses didn't happen.

quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:

quote:
Originally posted by Galilit:
Depends what else you have around it too - song, "Taize-type" chant, readings Biblical or other, music.

Do you mean before and ofter the silent period, or during it? I've been asked by several clergy persons to play background mood muzak during so-called silent times. My response was, 'Well then it wouldn't be silence would it?'

I have also been asked if I could "play silently" while such and such was going on, to which I answered, "sure, no problem"

An obvious occasion for the performance of 4'33 ...

Carys

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
And if allowing a time of silence, at least respect it. Don't talk through it as I heard one person do once -

"And now we have a time of silence to offer out own prayers to God". After about 2 seconds "And in this silence, we can use this time to ask God whatever is on our mind..." (very short silence)"... use this silence to think about those times when ..." and so on.

I seem to come across this all the time, and it really gets on my nerves!

My impression is that most church traditions are quite uncomfortable with worshipful silence - although they don't try to cut down on 'dead time' during transitions from one activity to another.

Posted by Roselyn (# 17859) on :

Thank you, it's not to my taste but I'll do what I am asked during Intercessions and let you know after Sunday

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

I've led intercessions with a bidding sentence and a 30s or a minute's silence following, and announced them as being that. I personally like this, but when I've led them they are the intercessions that others do not come up afterwards and say thank you, when they do for said intercessions. Leading the intercessions I time it, because I'd happily go for much, much longer.

When I've done it I've just used the 5 normal headings - church, world, national, local, sick & dying - for the bidding sentence.

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

I find these days that people are uncomfortable with silence. We are so used to constant music etc that silence is very confronting. It is always difficult to impose the 1 minute's silence for Remembrance Day. Perhaps retraining the congregation needs to be done in baby steps so that it is a very gradual change. This takes a lot of self discipline by the leaders but I'm sure it can be achieved.

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I find these days that people are uncomfortable with silence. We are so used to constant music etc that silence is very confronting. It is always difficult to impose the 1 minute's silence for Remembrance Day. Perhaps retraining the congregation needs to be done in baby steps so that it is a very gradual change. This takes a lot of self discipline by the leaders but I'm sure it can be achieved.

[pedant mode on]
Isn't it two minutes' silence on Remembrance Sunday?
[pedant mode off]
The problem I have on Remembrance Sunday is that the guy who puts together our Powerpoint slideshow for each Sunday insists on putting a recording of the Last Post at the end (he puts it on a timer, so it comes in automatically). The trouble is, he includes it as part of the two minutes, rather than afterwards. So last year, when I wanted a short piece of music beforehand, he took the start of the two minutes to be from the start of that piece of music, which, unless I was counting wrong, meant we ended up with about 30 seconds of proper silence in total.
Which I think underlines your point about people being uncomfortable with silence.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

I understand what you mean about background music. On the odd occasion, we have had quiet music playing while the intercessions are going on. I feel really distracted, as I can't concentrate on the prayers as the music interrupts them; equally I can't concentrate on the music as the prayers interrupt it. Perhaps people who can multi-task find it helpful, but I find it a terrible distraction. I think others must have commented the same, as it certainly hasn't been taken up as a common practice.

Now we have our time of silence (1-2 minutes) after the sermon. Which makes sense, as it gives you time to think through and digest what has been said during the previous 12 minutes or so.

Posted by daisymay (# 1480) on :

We also have various "silents" in the church during the Sundays. It is not very long silence but a while.

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
I understand what you mean about background music. On the odd occasion, we have had quiet music playing while the intercessions are going on. I feel really distracted, as I can't concentrate on the prayers as the music interrupts them; equally I can't concentrate on the music as the prayers interrupt it. Perhaps people who can multi-task find it helpful, but I find it a terrible distraction. I think others must have commented the same, as it certainly hasn't been taken up as a common practice.

Now we have our time of silence (1-2 minutes) after the sermon. Which makes sense, as it gives you time to think through and digest what has been said during the previous 12 minutes or so.

Hmm I find quiet (gentle) music much less distracting than full silence! Full silence means I get distracted by things like breathing, stomach rumblings etc. Silence means I can hear too many little noises that distract me, whereas music means I only have to listen to that one noise. But I have misophonia and am very sensitive to tiny 'micro-noises' which is maybe why I find one noise that covers them to be better.

Posted by Roselyn (# 17859) on :

Managed 4 silences of c, 40 secs., it wouldn't hold any longer bit it followed an unexpectedly long sermon about 3x normal length. and we all managed the brief responses (don't normally have these.)

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
Managed 4 silences of c, 40 secs., it wouldn't hold any longer bit it followed an unexpectedly long sermon about 3x normal length. and we all managed the brief responses (don't normally have these.)

When I was learning how to be the officiant at our parish's Daily Office, a nun advised me on how long to keep the silence after each lesson: "Silently recite the Lord's Prayer...and not slowly." I think I still do that, but when done with the Lord's Prayer I only start thinking about standing up, so there are a few more silent seconds.

Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :

In Lutherland 30-45 seconds is about all that the average congregation can manage, unless it's a service like the Good Friday service our former church did a couple of years ago where between noon and three we had worship leaders reading Jesus' words from the Cross with well-spaced intervals of silence. In that case worshippers were prepared on what to expect, and it was also a come-and-go service with people drifting in and out during the course of the afternoon. I like significant silences during worship, but I'm in a small minority.

Posted by Roselyn (# 17859) on :

I can cope with days or even half days. Very slow sentences with space between them is OK. It's the tiny secs and minutes I personally find odd.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I've never heard of a congregation that was taught how to deal with periods of silence. The assumption seems to be that congregations can't can't with silence, full stop.

Perhaps we need to invite the Quakers in for some lessons! (Not the Quakers who have programmed worship, obviously.)

[ 16. March 2014, 11:53: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I've never heard of a congregation that was taught how to deal with periods of silence. The assumption seems to be that congregations can't can't with silence, full stop.

Perhaps we need to invite the Quakers in for some lessons! (Not the Quakers who have programmed worship, obviously.)

Periods of silence aren't very common or natural for modern-day people, so it makes a lot of sense to teach congregations how to cope with it.

I find total silence very distracting.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I find silence at home difficult, but in a church service there are far fewer temptations from computers, TVs, phones, etc. so it should be the ideal place to be silent.

Due to the lack of distractions I value any opportunity for private prayer during church services - especially since many churches aren't easily available at other times. But I think some people feel that a church service is an inappropriate place for private prayer.

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I find silence at home difficult, but in a church service there are far fewer temptations from computers, TVs, phones, etc. so it should be the ideal place to be silent.

Due to the lack of distractions I value any opportunity for private prayer during church services - especially since many churches aren't easily available at other times. But I think some people feel that a church service is an inappropriate place for private prayer.

I've already explained upthread why I find total silence distracting due to my misophonia. I think church is the perfect place for private prayer and am puzzled as to why anyone would think the opposite.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

When I refer to silence in church I'm really thinking about opportunities for silent prayer, not about utter noiselessness. For me, silent prayer can occur while music is playing softly in the background. But it doesn't occur when a minister gives the congregation 3 seconds for their own prayers and then starts talking again.

During Evensong the ideal time for such prayers is while the choir is singing, but at other kinds of services the opportunities for personal prayer are few.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Perhaps we need to invite the Quakers in for some lessons! (Not the Quakers who have programmed worship, obviously.)

The silence in Quaker worship is programmed.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I thought the term for non-led (and mostly silent) Quaker worship was 'unprogrammed' and the term for the hymn sandwich type was 'programmed'.

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Perhaps we need to invite the Quakers in for some lessons! (Not the Quakers who have programmed worship, obviously.)
The silence in Quaker worship is programmed.

Svitlana is referring to terms Quakers themselves use. 'Programmed' worship in the Quaker sense means that there are some planned times of talking and maybe singing. Most Quakers in the UK have 'unprogrammed' worship which in the Quaker sense means that there is no planned or programmed speaking, but it is entirely left to That Within.

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Perhaps we need to invite the Quakers in for some lessons! (Not the Quakers who have programmed worship, obviously.)
The silence in Quaker worship is programmed.

Yes, the silent time is part of the program, often the only part other than the handshake at the end. But even in Quaker Meetings with other aspects to their worship silent time is still there.

Here is an short explanation. The silence is not the object. Settling in and then opening one's heart and mind to listen is the important thing. It takes more than a minute or so to reach this state of readiness for whatever God wants you to know. . .which is the question I ask at the beginning of silent worship, what do you want me to know?

Of course, being in readiness can open one to many things, including praise, petition, examination of one's life, etc.

Here is a link to a very informative overview of unprogrammed (silent) worship.
www.bloomingtonfriends.org

sabine

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I thought the term for non-led (and mostly silent) Quaker worship was 'unprogrammed' and the term for the hymn sandwich type was 'programmed'.

Some Meetings in the US also use the term "semi-programmed" to indicate that there is almost a 50-50 split between the active part and the silent part.

In the US, there are four different Quaker traditions with different styles of handling the silent time, so it can be a bit confusing.

sabine

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

Gosh, I keep finding things I need to explain.

Silent time may well not be silent since people often feel led by the Spirit to rise and speak.

OK, I think I'll let the link provide the rest of the info, esp. since the OP was really about silent time of a different sort.

sabine

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I find total silence very distracting.

Indeed, I think I'd spend most of a prolonged silence, even if we all knew about it and what it was for, monitoring how we're all doing with the silence. "Hmm...everyone's being very silent indeed...Wow, that was a loud cough over there...I'll bet some people think something's gone wrong...Oops, I'm not praying yet..."

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

Good question

I give as much time as it takes me to mentally recite the presidents of the United States. If I want to give them more time in silence, I'll recite the monarchs of England starting with William I or if a longer time is desired I start with Alfred the Great. Other than a review of history, I don't get much out of it but that's one of the hazards of leading worship.

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

If that is what the people you're 'leading in worship' are also doing, unbeknownst to you, then I don't see why you would bother with it. You could at least mentally recite the books of the bible, or the Lord's prayer and Creed. Just my opinion.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

Pearl b4 Swine

Unless you time silence in someway you get it wrong. But to time unobtrusively means you have to remain outside the silence yourself. Beeswax Altar may recite the presidents of USA, I simply watch the second hand of a clock. We hold the door open so others may enter even if by doing so we are barred ourselves.

Jengie

Posted by thwarted_thurifer (# 16177) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
2 minutes. Any longer and I get the giggles.

Ah, the dancing feet of giggling clergy while prostrate on Good Friday. Priceless....

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:

Unless you time silence in someway you get it wrong. But to time unobtrusively means you have to remain outside the silence yourself.

Maybe preachers could use timers. This would enable them to participate in the silence themselves rather than thinking about when to stop.

Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :

When leading public intercessions, I usually use a timer and gradually increase: 10, 15, 20, 25 arriving at 30 secs for the departed. This way people are eased into stillness without needing it explained. We are blessed with an over-explaining incumbent, so the less extra verbiage the better.

When leading our reflective Stillness on Sunday, I keep my eye on an unobtrusive clock and introduce "a time of stillness" (~5 mins), later "an extended period of stillness" (~10mins) and later "a further period of stillness" (~15mins). But I stay acutely tuned to the shuffling of feet, and presence of newcomers and adjust accordingly. It's an immense privilege to hold a congregation in prayer during their stillness.

And, you will notice, I prefer 'stillness' as less daunting than 'silence'.

Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :

Our last minister in our Church of Scotland parish introduced a time of silence after the readings. He was uncomfortable with silence but taught himself and us to wait a few seconds, gradually extending the time to maybe a couple of minutes over the years he was here.

I note that in a small group if you leave 11 seconds of silence then someone will talk just to break the tension. In our ladies' group I timed it at 9 seconds one day, even though I had given warning that I would do the experiment!

Cattyish, learning to listen.

[ 01. April 2014, 07:34: Message edited by: cattyish ]

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

While I'm very fond of silence myself (I spent some time alone in deepest Northumberland recently, where for hours on end the loudest sound you'll hear is the creak of a tree branch in the wind), I wonder what happens to "corporate" worship when everyone is invited to retreat into their own heads for several minutes?

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Ask the Quakers. Or the Buddhists. Corporate silence can be very powerful. And silence is not "retreating into our heads" necessarily. It can well be getting beyond our individual self consciousness.

But that sort of contemplative silence is not what the OP was talking about.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Corporate silence can be very powerful.

That's often said, but what does it mean?

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

When other people are around being silent in a room, I'm far more aware of silence. If I'm being "silent" on my own, I'm constantly chattering with myself inside my head. And the funny thing is that noises outside the room (bird song and traffic) don't detract from the atmosphere in the silent space.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I'm no good at meditation - I need to be taught properly how to do it - but I can't understand why churchgoers don't see periods of corporate silence as opportunities for prayer. Why would you sit there fidgeting if you could be praying? If you don't feel prayerful at church when do you feel prayerful?

The whole topic of silence in church would make a fascinating research project for somebody.

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I'm no good at meditation - I need to be taught properly how to do it - but I can't understand why churchgoers don't see periods of corporate silence as opportunities for prayer. Why would you sit there fidgeting if you could be praying? If you don't feel prayerful at church when do you feel prayerful?

The whole topic of silence in church would make a fascinating research project for somebody.

Because some of us find it hard to pray while sitting still and silently. I know I pray better when I can walk around.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

In some of the Pentecostal churches praying aloud while walking around is possible. But I suppose that's off-putting to people who'd rather pray in perfect silence while sitting down!

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

Actually the fiddlers might well be those who do silent meditation. It takes me a couple of minutes to settle to meditative prayer and by that time most prayer times are over. So what do I do? keep myself out of meditation mode by fiddling or start settling into it only to be jerked out of it before I really start?

Jengie

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
When other people are around being silent in a room, I'm far more aware of silence. If I'm being "silent" on my own, I'm constantly chattering with myself inside my head. And the funny thing is that noises outside the room (bird song and traffic) don't detract from the atmosphere in the silent space.

It's almost like the presence of noise outside gives shape and tangibility to the silence inside.

[ 01. April 2014, 22:02: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

If we had a "like" box, I'd tick it for your last post.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Corporate silence can be very powerful.
That's often said, but what does it mean?

I tend to fall asleep.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

My local church recently started having meetings for meditation, something which I've not found particularly helpful before. The revelation for me was the use of a mantra - a repetitive devotional word or phrase to keep the mind from wandering (I use "Jesus, Lamb of God, have mercy on me"). That made such a difference and 30 minutes of silence drifted by almost unnoticed.

During Holy Week we've had services every evening, and the first 3 had short periods of silence. I'm surprised that folk know how long their silences are - I just guessed ours! We mixed Taize chants with the set readings and a short reflection, and about 5 periods of silence. People coped very well with the silence but I think it was a self-selecting group as our congregation tend to get very grumpy if there are aspects of a service they haven't been warned about in advance.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

quote:

I think it was The Blessed Richard Giles (yes! YMMV!) who suggested that silences in the Eucharist e.g. after the prayers or the homily could be marked fore and aft by the sounding of a bell or gong........I have to say I rather warm to this idea<snip>an J.

Dragging up an old (but not extinct) thread to make the hosts cry (oh, wait a minute) and add that I was at a Richard Giles seminar last week - he also recommends Nepalese Singing bowls for this moment, and that could work well in the magnificent acoustic of my pad.

For about 25 years now I've used about a minute of silence after the sermon, and around 30" at other points in the liturgy. I haven't really got it happening in my new pad yet ... my lay officiant killed it today [Mad]

[ 01. June 2014, 00:48: Message edited by: Zappa ]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I wonder what happens to "corporate" worship when everyone is invited to retreat into their own heads for several minutes?

From personal experience, this is when one of your small children realizes that he has a burning question about some detail of the service that just can't wait, but has to be asked now. Said child has two volume settings - loud and ear-piercing.

(The question was "what does redeemer mean?" which doesn't really lend itself to a two-word whispered answer...)

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0