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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Book of Common Prayer....or worship?
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Karl Kroenen
Apprentice
# 16822
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Posted
OK, so I'm really confused and am wondering if someone can give me a REALLY SIMPLE explanation, or point me in the direction of a resource that can. (Did I mention it needs to be REALLY SIMPLE?)
I'm trying to work out how CoE services are structured - basically exactly what to expect at a 'normal' 10am Sunday Service. Out of curiosity really. I've got a book called the Book of Common Prayer, published by Oxford Uni Press 1965. I can't make head nor tail of it. Then I've also see the Book of Common Worship (which it seems isn't a book at all, but a series of books!). Then when I've looked online it's just as confusing. It talks about 'collects', 'refrains' and has tied my poor little brain in knots. Isn't there a sort of easy interactive thing on the internet somewhere that just tells you what day after Easter it is, what words need to be said by whom and what the readings are (are these the 'lectionaries?'). Forgive my ignorance, but it all looks like a foreign language at the moment. I always assumed until a couple of weeks ago that the Vicar just decided what to say and what readings would be done on a bit of whim.
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God loves you so much that He created Hell, just in case you don't love Him back.
Posts: 34 | From: Bristol | Registered: Dec 2011
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
I'm not an Anglican but the CofE website has this Common Worship texts which might or might not be helpful. But for really helpful help you probably need interactive liveware ie a real person in the flesh.
[ 24. May 2014, 17:26: Message edited by: StevHep ]
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Posts: 241 | From: Exeter | Registered: Jul 2012
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
Probably part of the problem is that there isn't just one answer! Book of Common Prayer was the standard text in the Church of England from 1662 until about the 1970's ( with a few adaptations additions in 1928). If a church advertises matins or Evensong or BCP communion then it will be taken from the Book Of Common Prayer and the service will follow through the text for which ever service it is.
Common worship came in in 2000 and gives options for morning prayer, evening prayer and the Eucharist ( Communion) so each church will decide for itself which to use and which bits to include and which to leave out. there are also 8 different Eucharistic prayers which can be used. Most churches therefor print there own service sheet either week by week or as a booklet for use in different seasons.
Not sure if this makes sense but if you want to ask more specific questions on what I've said I'll try and answer. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Karl Kroenen
Apprentice
# 16822
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Posted
Thanks for the replies. So, if we take a specific Sunday as an example - may be this Sunday, or the Sunday after (or any one really), how would one go about, from scratch, working out the 'script'? Where would (or could) one start?
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God loves you so much that He created Hell, just in case you don't love Him back.
Posts: 34 | From: Bristol | Registered: Dec 2011
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kroenen:
Thanks for the replies. So, if we take a specific Sunday as an example - may be this Sunday, or the Sunday after (or any one really), how would one go about, from scratch, working out the 'script'? Where would (or could) one start?
I think it helps to study specific examples of how this has been done. For instance, download this service sheet, which contains the texts that were chosen for a principal service on May 11 of this year, and study it along with Common Worship Order One. You won't be able to figure out which choice they made in every instance, but you'll get quite close to how the service is put together.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
It all depends...
The parish will have chosen which book they will use - some will use both at different services. The notice board may tell you which is used when, or it may not, in which case...
Can you ask someone? One of the clergy or wardens is probably best placed to tell you. The churchgoers may only know if they use the Book of Common Prayer, as users of Common Worship probably only have booklets each week. As for readings...
There are some lectionary sites and I think the C of E site will also tell you the readings. A Collect comes before the readings, not sure what a refrain is. Now, if you said versicles and responses...
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
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Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Perhaps it would make things easier if you knew which church you were planning to attend and the name of the service?
Just to confuse you more,I can think of a few C of E churches where they don't use the BCP or Common Worship at all, apart from the occasional Communion service.
In churches that do use these, in addition to the words of the service itself there are the readings from the Bible assigned for that day, called the Lectionary. Finally, according to the time of the year there are prayers called collects. At the moment we are in the season of Easter, then we'll move on to Pentecost.
Hope this helps a little. I'm currently struggling with learning my way round the prayer book here in Kiswahili and other local languages so I can sympathise with your confusion!
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Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I notice from your profile, Karl, that you refer to yourself as Anglo-Catholic - which implies Anglican in case you weren't aware of this ... Anglo-Catholicsm being the Catholic 'wing' of the Church of England.
Did you mean Roman Catholic?
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
It'd help if you told us a bit about what you are used to and then we can start to make comparisons perhaps.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
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Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
The parish will have chosen which book they will use - some will use both at different services.
And some may use the Roman Missal and others may use no formal liturgy at all.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
Here is the Order One Communion service from Common Worship. You will note that there are lots of options - things "may" be said, and the individual church/priest will decide which options are to be used. This would be pretty standard for a C of E 10am service.
Of course, some places run things strictly by the book, and others are a little more free-form...
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kroenen:
Forgive my ignorance, but it all looks like a foreign language at the moment.
Nought to forgive! It took me three years of theological college and two years of curacy to get my head around some of that stuff - but don't let that put you off! Thirty years on I am still gobsmacked by the (sometimes unnecessary) levels of intricacy of liturgical language (especially on this board).
quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kroenen:
I always assumed until a couple of weeks ago that the Vicar just decided what to say and what readings would be done on a bit of whim.
Some "low" (charismatic-evangelical) places that would be true. When I'm supreme dictator of the world they'll be expelled from Anglicanism but I'm told I'm biased. Perhaps God loves them too? However for the rest of us, as others have said, there are shapes and guidelines and rules that give the liturgy its form and focus and theme each week (each day, in fact).
These notes from the NZ church may or may not be helpful as an overview, though some aspects are NZ-specific.
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Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kroenen:
OK, so I'm really confused and am wondering if someone can give me a REALLY SIMPLE explanation, or point me in the direction of a resource that can. (Did I mention it needs to be REALLY SIMPLE?)
Unfortunately, there are many options that a priest in the Church of England can use. There are even many choices of lectionaries (lists of scripture readings) that can be used. That said, try this:
1. Go to The Text This Week to find out which Sunday it is. It will be on the home page. Right now, it pulls up May 25, 2014 as Easter 6. That means the Sixth Sunday of Easter.
2. Then go to here to find your collect prayers. For next Sunday, you would click on the "Lent to Pentecost" link, and the scroll down to the Sixth Sunday of Easter.
That should give you the changing liturgical texts for the day in many C of E churches. If your church follows the Revised Common Lectionary, as many do, The Text This Week site at #1 above should give you the scripture readings.
It's a bit confusing, but it's confusing because it accommodates many needs and preferences. The easiest thing to do would be to ask your priest how s/he chooses what to use. It's a legitimate question, because you may very well wish to use those texts for private devotions.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
I would suggest that the 'normal' (or perhaps the norm) for a Sunday 10am service would be a Common Worship Communion service that follows the pattern : Introductory Rites, Confession, Kyrie and/or Gloria, Readings, Sermon, Creed, Intercesiions, Peace, Eucharistic Prayer, Lord's Prayer, Agnus Dei, Communion, Notices and Blessing. There will be variety of EPs used but the broad structure will be pretty similar. Sunday Morning Prayer is increasingly rare outside Cathedrals, and as others have said there are some evangelical churches which are liturgy-lite and some (though increasingly fewer) that use the Roman Rite.
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I attend an Anglo-Catholic church and have no difficulty following the order of service, but any variation from an AC service(such as a low church evangelical service) in a different church leaves me flummoxed. The beauty of the Anglican church is that there are different churches and styles for different people's needs and I would hate to see all the churches become clones of each other. Most newcomers to my church seem to slot into the order of service quite readily and if they aren't comfortable, I guess they can choose to go elsewhere.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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womanspeak
Shipmate
# 15394
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Posted
Bib, but surely in Tasmania as in other areas of rural Australia there aren't any other churches nearby so we are stuck with whatever is on offer.
I have found it a joy in visiting the missionary diocese of Tasmania that you seem, while exhibiting a wide expression of Anglicanism contain an underlying commitment to outreach and evangelism in both high and low parishes.
Is this your experience?
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from the bush
Posts: 62 | From: rural australia | Registered: Jan 2010
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Woman Speak, I'm not in a rural area but am in a city parish and there are other Anglican churches available of all 'flavours'. I guess that this isn't so for the small rural towns in Tasmania as in some other parts of Australia, but this is outside my experience. I came to my present parish in 2001 as my previous church changed and had become a very 'low' church when it had been middle to high for more than a hundred years. I am fortunate in that I was able to find another church, but I know of other churches that I would be happy to join.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Part of the problem here, I think, is that the CofE persists in using jargon that it thinks everyone understands, but which hardly anyone does - "introit", "collect", "intercessions".... The 1970 Missal helpfully translated these - "entry of the ministers", "opening prayer", "Prayers of the faithful". Once you do this, the structure of the service becomes much clearer.
It's really long past time the CofE realised we no longer live in a culture where most people know what the "proper preface for Pentecost" is.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
It's really long past time the CofE realised we no longer live in a culture where most people know what the "proper preface for Pentecost" is.
But is it also a culture wherein no one can learn anything? Think of the terms we've all learned in the past few years that would be utter gibberish to someone visiting via time machine from 1980 or so: RAM, gigabyte, cloud storage... I think most people realize that when they experience something heretofore unfamiliar, there will be some unfamiliar terms. Best to make the learning easy rather than beat ourselves over the head for using such terms (how thoughtless we are for using terms with precise meanings!).
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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NatDogg
Shipmate
# 14347
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
It's really long past time the CofE realised we no longer live in a culture where most people know what the "proper preface for Pentecost" is.
But is it also a culture wherein no one can learn anything? Think of the terms we've all learned in the past few years that would be utter gibberish to someone visiting via time machine from 1980 or so: RAM, gigabyte, cloud storage... I think most people realize that when they experience something heretofore unfamiliar, there will be some unfamiliar terms. Best to make the learning easy rather than beat ourselves over the head for using such terms (how thoughtless we are for using terms with precise meanings!).
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2008
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