Ship of Fools: Heart-sinking words

Thread: Heart-sinking words Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=027929

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

This post in Hell reminded me that there are some words or phrases that just seem to bleach all hope of fun from the world. To 'outlet' I would add 'function suite' - and indeed 'function'. 'Seminar', 'workshop' and 'training' never come freighted with a feeling of joy either (you can tell where I spent my working life). For the same reason, anything beginning 'Windows' or 'Word' have me looking for the exit.

It's not just the world of work - but home, family, church, the world of leisure - see, there's another one: 'amusements' and 'the x experience' are also coming rapidly to signify stuff to which chewing tinfoil would be a happy alternative.

What are your (least) favourites?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

"networking"

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

cascade

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

Brainstorm when used as a verb. In fact, any noun used as a verb.

"Facilitate" makes the Baby Jesus cry.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

"you guys;" "kids;" (aaaah worst of all); "breakout;" "discussion;" "at the end of the day;" "no offence but ..." and sadly "freighted"

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Someone once scolded the word "utilize" out of me.

"Use." The word is "use."

And for some reason the kids are starting to throw around the word "conversate," which just makes me want to brain myself.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

"Mission action plan" or maybe "Risk assessment" to name but two.

Posted by Athrawes (# 9594) on :

Going forward. A really stupid way of trying to sound like you have a plan.

Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :

I second 'facilitate' and 'networking'.

'The [whatever] Experience'; 'strategy'; 'power point presentation'; 'stakeholders'; 'customers' when used instead of 'passengers' on the Tube.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

"Management of change", "hotdesk", "exciting opportunity".

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

My name is Sioni Sais and I am a heart-sinking word user. I goes with my trade of business analysis, which is a heart-sinking term, but I have to facilitate workshops that can include brainstorming (though they shouldn't) and when issues arise that we can't handle we park them. We have 'breakouts' too but don't get me onto them, because they are a bloody menace. Actually there's hardly a term in business analysis and the whole of enterprise architecture that isn't heart-sinking.

Ah, yes. 'Overly', that's the one that makes my flesh creep. WTF is it for?

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

Ina church setting "missional" and "intentional" are buzz words. When challenged the people using them can't define them.

Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :

I work in primary school aged childcare in the school holidays and the government recently put in place a new 'quality standards framework'. This involved quite a bit of work, meetings in term-time and paperwork on our part so now I also dislike the words and phrases 'quality improvement plan', 'statement of philosophy' and 'learning story'. I also do not like 'minor incident reports' and 'risk assessments' and 'minor first aid forms' as we have to fill them in for every little thing. Though better than having to report a 'major incident'.

At least we were recently 'audited' and for all our hard work achieved 'exceeding standards' in all areas. I don't mind that phrase. [Smile]

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
"you guys;" "kids;" (aaaah worst of all); "breakout;" "discussion;" "at the end of the day;" "no offence but ..." and sadly "freighted"

This reminded me of a wonderful exchange with my older son apropos of naked selfies.

Niminypiminy: I can't imagine ever wanting to put a photo of myself naked on the internet for everyone to see.
Nimlet1: Well, no offence, Mum, but most people who do it aren't old and fat.
Niminypiminy: !!!!!!

My heart-sinking word is 'appropriate', especially in the mouths of babes and primary school children.

'Breakfast bar' and 'ensuite' used as a noun also make me die a little.

[ 18. October 2014, 09:49: Message edited by: Niminypiminy ]

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

"I hear you but..."

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Ina church setting "missional" and "intentional" are buzz words. When challenged the people using them can't define them.

"Mission statement" when used of a church often contains aims which are really unable to be measured to give any result at all.

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Brainstorm when used as a verb. In fact, any noun used as a verb.

I love verbifying nouns and nounifying verbs.

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

Role-play - as a business term, I understand it can be fun in other scenarios.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I na church setting "missional" and "intentional" are buzz words. When challenged the people using them can't define them.

That gets a [Overused]

I agree.

As is 'being church' or virtually any use of 'church' without a definite or indefinite article. Likewise anything that refers to finding one's inner child.

I too don't like or get role plays. They only came along when I was already a fairly mature adult.

[ 18. October 2014, 11:22: Message edited by: Enoch ]

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :

"Agile working"

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

The church is full of meaningless words that make my heart sink, because it indicates the people using them don't know what they are talking about. "Bible-based" is one. "seeking to be ..." - generally indicates something that is aspirational, but we will not put in the work to make it happen.

I work in IT, which is, of course, driven by buzz-words. We wouldn't survive without them (PMs, for example, would have to be silent).

quote:
Originally posted by Bene Gesserit:
"Agile working"

This is one that irritates me. Everyone wants "agile development skills", but as every place implements these in totally different ways, it is meaningless. It is like asking for "computer skills" (which can be everything from knowing how to use word to begin able to develop software, to being confident to dismantle and rebuild a laptop.)

"Performant" is another one that gets me. It means nothing. Even when you turn it into "performing well" it is still meaningless, unless you add in what you actually mean.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I na church setting "missional" and "intentional" are buzz words. When challenged the people using them can't define them.
That gets a I agree.

I agree, I agree. A former rector, whom I love dearly, but who came to the cloth after having a business career, bless his heart, got the vestry to approve this mission statement. Aaarrrgh!

quote:
(My church)...is a loving Christ-filled family that provides an inclusive home of liturgy, music, outreach, and fellowship. We are a supportive place for change as we empower each other through the Holy Spirit to do God's work of social awareness, environmental consciousness, and spiritual growth. In thanksgiving for our abundance, we are called to serve the community. Come join us on the journey!

Posted by QLib (# 43) on :

Information Management System.

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

"Proactive."

And the dreaded "human resources"--are you providing resources for humans or are you treating humans as resources? Either way, why are you distinguishing yourself from humans?

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :

In a church context 'have a heart for' is always bad news.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Ina church setting "missional" and "intentional" are buzz words. When challenged the people using them can't define them.

It's easy. "Missional" means Holistic mission.

Aren't you glad I cleared that one up.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

A phrse that is widely used in my diocese t the moment is "mission shaped church". WTF is that even supposed to mean?

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Ina church setting "missional" and "intentional" are buzz words. When challenged the people using them can't define them.

I second these nominations and put into play "collegial" and "team player." I've yet to meet a lead pastor who doesn't self describe as "collegial" but what they mean by that varies widely. They also all say they want a staff of "team players" which can mean anything from "I like input" to "I will punish people who criticize me".

[ 18. October 2014, 15:10: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
A phrse that is widely used in my diocese at the moment is "mission shaped church". WTF is that even supposed to mean?

Old pastor of mine used this phrase. Also talked about "baptizing" practices from other faiths. (Like Passover). Also talked about "utilizing our dollars." Would try to recruit folk to church positions and tell them to "go home, think on it, sleep on it, pray on it." ( which was not bad advice, but the way he put it it sounded like a catch phrase.)

[ 18. October 2014, 15:17: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
In a church context 'have a heart for' is always bad news.

I agree.

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Would try to recruit folk to church positions and tell them to "go home, think on it, sleep on it, pray on it."

Would I be right in suspecting there was a strongly implied message that God would tell them this was something they had to take on?

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Would try to recruit folk to church positions and tell them to "go home, think on it, sleep on it, pray on it." ( which was not bad advice, but the way he put it it sounded like a catch phrase.)

Did any action ever follow all this consideration? There are churches and people who have been 'waiting on God' since the Bronze Age.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Would I be right in suspecting there was a strongly implied message that God would tell them this was something they had to take on?

Yeah, I forgot to add, whatever your prayerful reflection produced was incidental to what Pastor knew was right.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

The phrase "on the ground" used in any way but a completely literal one.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

Hashtag. It's bad enough when people type a # before a word for #noreason but even more so when they say "hashtag" out loud. I put it in the same league as making quotation marks with your fingers when speaking.

[ 18. October 2014, 17:46: Message edited by: Spike ]

Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :

Oh, yuck to all of these [Roll Eyes]

And a special yuck to 'I'd like to share with you...xyz' - why the hell not say 'I'd like to tell you about...'?

I hate 'implementation' too.

And 'Bible-believing'. What, as opposed to Mein Kampf?

Posted by marzipan (# 9442) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lothlorien:
"I hear you but..."

"... I'm not going to listen to you" is the bit they forget to say!

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :

"In my humble opinion..."

Means I am right and you are and for ever will be wrong.

Hate hate hate hearing it. And all the other nasty little words and phrases quoted before.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
making quotation marks with your fingers when speaking.

.... depends which way round the fingers are.

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

"I'm telling you this as your friend."
Usually not very friendly, at all.

"There are going to be big changes."
Church again.

"We are re-evaluating."
...And more church. [Frown]

Posted by rufiki (# 11165) on :

Restructure
Mandatory Online Course

Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bene Gesserit:
"Agile working"

"hot-desking" - grr. Not content with housing workers in what is effectively a barn with stalls, five years later they move to not even letting you have your own stall...and they come up with this fancy phrase for it and think people will be sold on the idea.

Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :

"Annual Appraisal".

Widely recognised as a charade by all participants except the incompetent buffoons in the HR department, who aren't even sufficiently on the ball to know whether the employees have worked their contracted hours or not.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

When being given directions: "You can't miss it".

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
The phrase "on the ground" used in any way but a completely literal one.

Or the use of "literally" when in fact you mean the complete opposite.

Posted by fullgospel (# 18233) on :

'veg' as in 'grow your own' or 'fruit and ---'

'pot' when used in the deplorable 'pension pot'.

[brick wall]

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I can't come to terms to arguably the most innovative ministry anyone has ever been gifted and inspirational to share, which if not stirred in our souls means we have hearts of stone. I'll pray for you. Big hugs to all of you.

Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :

"We must step out of our comfort zone."

I remember a silent internal scream at that one once, which went along the lines of "The last time I was in my effing 'comfort zone' was 1999. I would love to have just a few moments back in my comfort zone."

Posted by Hilda of Whitby (# 7341) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
"networking"

And its vomitous cousin, "team building"

Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :

This is sending shivers down my spine. Years ago I had to write an annual report for the most inept, waster of public funds ever and all I could do was pile weasel word upon weasel word-took me years to garner back my self-respect. So much "committed to", "working towards.....outcomes", and "engaging stakeholders" . [Projectile]

Posted by chive (# 208) on :

I am running a battle at work against the use of the term 'tasking' which means 'asking'. The t is utterly unrequired and makes the user into a wanker as I have pointed out repeatedly.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
This is sending shivers down my spine. Years ago I had to write an annual report for the most inept, waster of public funds ever and all I could do was pile weasel word upon weasel word-took me years to garner back my self-respect. So much "committed to", "working towards.....outcomes", and "engaging stakeholders" .

Console yourself. Presumably by writing the stuff, you were doing exactly what your bosses thought they were paying you to do.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

On church websites: "We are a vibrant and growing fellowship seeking to serve our awesome God" (or variants thereof: "vibrant" is the most detested weasel word).

Why not just say, "We're a pretty ordinary church, sometimes we surprise ourselves and do things fairly well and sometimes we mess up badly, sometimes our worship is quite good and sometimes it's boring: but God loves us anyway".

I might join that church!

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Another one that really drives me up the wall - particularly since although you know what they mean, it's execrable theology, 'God shows up', as in 'it was one of those occasions when we rally sang and prayed and God showed up'.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
A phrse that is widely used in my diocese t the moment is "mission shaped church". WTF is that even supposed to mean?

It's a 2004 book and a report (pdf) from the CofE. There is a series of spin off books.

The whole thing is full of heart-sinking words.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

In relation to news of some governmental foul-up or mismanagement: "Lessons will be learnt" - they never are, so how thick are these people?

In a church context: "relevant".

Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :

"Letting go" when the person does not want to go.

"It was a business decision" which means that it was immoral and without regard for people.

The current political favorite: "hard working families", which presumably means sending the children up chimneys like they did back in the good old days when the poor were grateful for a dry crust of bread.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Another dreadful expression used by politicians 'we must have a debate about this'.

Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :

I also hate when 'Mum and Dad' is used in place of ordinary, everyday people. Most commonly in 'Mum and Dad' investors, but also now creeping into politics, eg. the 'Mums and Dads of Australia' will approve/disprove a policy. Not all everyday people are Mums and Dads and those of us who are not parents may also be small-time investors or have a stake in government policies that affect the average person.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Just read one in Dead Horses: Love the sinner but hate the sin.

Which reminded me of another one that has been niggling at me through this thread: Telling the truth in love.

And much less harmful, but still wrong, from children "I was just..." or "I was only..." usually followed by "joking" or a similar excuse for being beastly to someone.

[ 19. October 2014, 13:14: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :

The most desperate hell-hole of a school these days will be a 'Centre of Excellence' where every child will 'achieve their full potential'.

New service booklets at my church now include an 'alternative' form of creed which is full of heart-sinking expressions including 'helping us to achieve our full potential.' [Disappointed]

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
In relation to news of some governmental foul-up or mismanagement: "Lessons will be learnt" - they never are, so how thick are these people?

What is means is that other people will learn some lessons - we, the people in charge, who need to learn them won't. Most of the lessons that these "other" people will learn is that if you are not making these announcements, then you are about to be fired, meaning that there is then nobody left in the organisation who has actually learned anything.

The other lesson learnt is often "don't get caught again".

Actually, the most heart-sinking words are anything said by a politician these days. You just know they are going to be lies, manipulation and deceit, along with helpings of self-justification and demonising of those they don't like.

[ 19. October 2014, 14:02: Message edited by: Schroedinger's cat ]

Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :

And while we're on the subject I don't trust 'Upbeat' - not since the infamous Reader Upbeat now 'abridged and revised to improve usability' - because the original was useless.

[ 19. October 2014, 14:06: Message edited by: justlooking ]

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

The thing I dread to hear more than anything is "social media" as it usually appears in the explanation of yet another half-arsed attempt at reaching out to those who have no interest in what we are doing whatsoever. I once earned myself a dirty look from the directors by musing aloud "I wonder how many ex-soviet nuclear power station owners are there on Facebook?".

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

'take on board'

A former headmaster of mine used this phrase so often that we used to run a staff sweepstake on how many minutes into a meeting he would say the term.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
In relation to news of some governmental foul-up or mismanagement: "Lessons will be learnt".

Ah, but have they "put their hands up" as well?

Posted by Charles Had a Splurge on (# 14140) on :

From our Church Profile (a horrible phrase in itself):
"we are a rainbow of multiethnicity
and social diversity."

Tautologous nonsense.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Had a Splurge on:
Tautologous nonsense.

As is this.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

"over use of the gaming product"

-which means the person has a gambling problem.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
"over use of the gaming product"

-which means the person has a gambling problem.

Actually the use of "product" really bugs me, in this context. Because it becomes irrelevant what it is, it is just a "product" that is being sold.

Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :

'check your privilege'

AFAICT the phrase currently means that I am going to wind up telling someone to stop trying to teach their grandmother to suck eggs.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
... I love verbifying nouns and nounifying verbs.

In which case, there's an especially hot corner of the hot place with your name on it. [Devil]

There's a company whose vans are frequently found in the car-park at work called "Building Solutions"; D. wanted to know, "how do you build a solution?"

"Well", I suggested, "you start with some GIN ..." [Big Grin]

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
A phrse that is widely used in my diocese t the moment is "mission shaped church". WTF is that even supposed to mean?

In California it could mean Spanish colonial architecture. [Smile]

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

"Mindful" The people who use it are sure to throw in the words "Folks" and "respectful"

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

Extemporaneous prayers that include "Father God", "Lord Jesus", and "just" every five words or so:

"Father God, we just praise your name, and we just ask you, Jesus Lord, to just bless our works to your glory, Lord Jesus. Just lead us in the right path, Father God. Amen."

As Jordan says on Blimey Cow on You Tube, it's as if God will forget his name if you don't say it often enough.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:

quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
... I love verbifying nouns and nounifying verbs.
In which case, there's an especially hot corner of the hot place with your name on it.

There's a company whose vans are frequently found in the car-park at work called "Building Solutions"; D. wanted to know, "how do you build a solution?"

There's a company round here which offers "Aperture Solutions" - i.e. they install doors and windows.

[ 20. October 2014, 06:46: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

You want there to be supplier of chemicals called 'Solutions Solutions', don't you?

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :

Another one that annoys me is 'Logistics Solutions'. Why can't they just call themselves delivery companies and concentrate on delivering your packages on time?

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

Don't ask me to 'join the conversation'.

I'll happily contribute to the discussion or join the debate. I'd be delighted to have a chat - if only that was what you meant.

'Join the conversation', though, seems to mean saying something - anything - on the subject. Nobody will take the slightest bit of notice of what I say, but I will have become a part of something that will eventually be decided by other people - if, indeed, it ever gets to anything as boring as a decision.

That is fine for a discussion board. It is not even slightly alright for anything important.

Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

'On a daily basis' is just 'every day'.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Extemporaneous prayers that include "Father God", "Lord Jesus", and "just" every five words or so:

"Father God, we just praise your name, and we just ask you, Jesus Lord, to just bless our works to your glory, Lord Jesus. Just lead us in the right path, Father God. Amen."

As Jordan says on Blimey Cow on You Tube, it's as if God will forget his name if you don't say it often enough.

When people use that technique on other people, it's usually a way of controlling them...(or else trying to make sure that they themselves don't forget it - but it comes across as controlling.)

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Extemporaneous prayers that include "Father God", "Lord Jesus", and "just" every five words or so:

"Father God, we just praise your name, and we just ask you, Jesus Lord, to just bless our works to your glory, Lord Jesus. Just lead us in the right path, Father God. Amen."

As Jordan says on Blimey Cow on You Tube, it's as if God will forget his name if you don't say it often enough.

Keep count of 'Father God' and 'Jesus Lord'. There are a couple of people at my shack who can run up a basketball score.

Posted by Wood (# 7) on :

"Action" meaning "do" always annoyed me.

In the university I worked in, "employablity" was a buzzword, and was truly a bullshit metric.

I have a whole list of argument-losing phrases that you see on the internet, but they are more suited for a Hell thread.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

At the end of a team meeting:

"Oh, Karl, before you go, can I just have a word?"

At work, any time:

"Teamwork"
"Mandatory Training"

At a church:

Anything beginning with "a time of", especially "worship" or "prayer".

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

"Going forward".

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
"Going forward".

It has a close friend which means the speaker needs beating with the Clue Stick - "In the first instance".

Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :

'Conference' is a word devoid of hope. It promises much but then shows up with 'flip-chart'. 'S.W.O.T.' and 'feedback' and you are doomed to another time-wasting exercise in phony consultation.

[ 20. October 2014, 10:39: Message edited by: justlooking ]

Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :

I use lots of these phrases. [Two face]

One I heard recently that nearly made me gasp was 'covenanting' instead of working together in a church context. We are covenanting with another person on this mission statement.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Earwig:
I use lots of these phrases.

One I heard recently that nearly made me gasp was 'covenanting' instead of working together in a church context. We are covenanting with another person on this mission statement.

Better than fellowshipping. That sounds like some poor sod has been parcelled up and submitted to the tender mercies of UPS.

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

Covenanting

This is not a buzz word. It is a historic practice by Non-Conformist in England and more widely in the Reformed tradition. There is a branch of Reformed theology called Covenant Theology. By extension coming into membership was seen as "covenanting" which involved signing a document stating the central beliefs of the Congregation. This was extended further than the local congregation with Covenanters in Scotland signing the National Covenant. Charles Wesley of course used it in the creation of the Covenant service and the Voortrekkers remembrance of the Day of Vow could equally be translated "Day of Covenant".

In other words, it is a word with a definite heritage both Biblical, Theological and Historical. I would actively avoid it, it carries too much baggage, but its use can never simply be an obfuscation of unpleasant realities.

Jengie

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
"Mindful" ...

I can handle "mindful" in the context of the old Irish grace:

Lord, bless this food to our use and us to thy service, and keep us mindful of the needs of others ...

But in other contexts, you're probably right.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Don't "send a message" unless you really are about to hit Send on the email page. If you are TALKING, you aren't "sending a message," you are saying something. Every time you say "This'll really send them a message!" I imagine you scribbling something and dropping it into a bottle, putting the cork in, and flinging it out into the ocean. Which is just about as practical as the message-sending activities you are proposing right now.

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
"Oh, Karl, before you go, can I just have a word?"

You could confuse them by delivering a prophecy.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
"Oh, Karl, before you go, can I just have a word?"
You could confuse them by delivering a prophecy.

Or something even more random:

quote:
Sure: "Parsnip".

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Ooh - is this the tennis elbow foot game?

Can I join in?

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Consultation: meaning, for example, "We have decided to sell this park to a Chinese company and we are telling you about this irrevocable decision at this meeting in a smallish venue, giving you a few moments to comment, but not to ask questions which require answers, which will cause our security staff to remove you." (A conflation of several events.)

You need to manage your expectations: you are going to have absolutely no effect on us, and must become reconciled to the fact that you are a little person of no importance. We are not a democracy. You are only worth the minimum wage and a zero hours contract.

And, in other contexts, in any place of worship but a Friends' Meeting House, "We will now have a minute of silence for your own prayers." Minute in its other meaning and pronounciation is about the time which follows.

[ 20. October 2014, 17:26: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

"Personal development." This will entail a course you don't want to go on, but which you can point to at the end of the year to prove that you're actively engaged in the great alchemical work of personal transformation, and are becoming better, kinder and more spiritually evolved, thanks to "Spreadsheets: How to Get the Most Out of Pivot Tables".

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Brain Gym - you reminded me of INSET days.

[ 20. October 2014, 18:01: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Consultation: meaning, for example, "We have decided to sell this park to a Chinese company and we are telling you about this irrevocable decision at this meeting in a smallish venue, giving you a few moments to comment, but not to ask questions which require answers, which will cause our security staff to remove you." (A conflation of several events.)
.

Wry smile of recognition. In this case the 'consultation' was 50 minutes of discussion in small groups followed by the vicar telling us a contract had been signed that very day, and how exiting, this was going to happen.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
"Personal development." This will entail a course you don't want to go on, but which you can point to at the end of the year to prove that you're actively engaged in the great alchemical work of personal transformation, and are becoming better, kinder and more spiritually evolved, thanks to "Spreadsheets: How to Get the Most Out of Pivot Tables".

Lucky you. We have 'personal development objectives'. Achieving them isn't important, just so long as we are 'working towards' them.

As for pivot tables, they bring to mind the Italian one-fingered gesture.

Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Consultation: meaning, for example, "We have decided to sell this park to a Chinese company and we are telling you about this irrevocable decision at this meeting in a smallish venue, giving you a few moments to comment, but not to ask questions which require answers, which will cause our security staff to remove you." (A conflation of several events.)

You need to manage your expectations: you are going to have absolutely no effect on us, and must become reconciled to the fact that you are a little person of no importance. We are not a democracy. You are only worth the minimum wage and a zero hours contract.

I see your 'consultation' and raise you a 'Parish Away-Day'. This is a special high-level kind of consultation in the CofE, led by an Archdeacon or at least some deanery luminary and often with a nice lunch provided. It will involve the inevitable flip-chart and S.W.O.T exercise plus 'sharing our stories' and 'making change work'. The purpose however is not to garner ideas and involve parishioners in decision-making because the decisions were made many months ago and nothing said during the 'away-day' will make the slightest difference to anything. The purpose is to make parishioners feel 'listened to' and to keep them busy until the inevitable church closure or merger or whatever.

Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :

Clinical governance. <shiver>

Cattyish, trying to be good and having to prove it.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

"Let's pray for the Holy Spirit's guidance on this matter..." and THEN they trot out the engraved plaques that make it abundantly clear they had made the decision to "retire" your branch long beforehand, and the Spirit was being invoked solely as camouflage.

I call it blasphemy, myself.

So did Mr. Lamb, publicly and with the agreement of his colleagues, to the confusion of the blasphemer who had actually meant nothing but management-speak by what he said.

Awkward.

[ 20. October 2014, 19:53: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Do you suppose that those speakers actually believe that that is what consultation means? Did they learn it while studying for their MBA or something? If it's that general... I thought they were just being bent, knowingly lying.

[ 20. October 2014, 20:04: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

"At this point in time:" What's wrong with "now?"

"Mistakes were made:" And nobody but the innocent is ever going to pay for them.

The weather-people who talk about "rain events."

The salespeople who talk about the "shopping experience."

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :

"Advise" when used to mean "inform".

"We wish to advise you that the train will be late." Where's the advice in that? I can understand "we advise you to walk because the train will be late". I can't work out who uses it and why. Nobody I know uses it in conversation, it only seems to be in public announcements.

Posted by Miss Madrigal (# 15528) on :

Webinar. Death by PowerPoint at a distance.

I would also make a case for my recent succession of job titles. What used to be a "system analyst who does tin and string on the side" has become "Strategy and Capability Architect". i can only write that down with my tongue in my cheek.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:

The weather-people who talk about "rain events."

Here in Southern California, any "rain event" is heralded by our intrepid newscasters (clad in serious weather gear as if heading out for war) as (large font all caps): STORM-POCALYPSE 2014!!!

Perhaps that's why we're in a drought-- no self-respecting "rain event" would come near the place.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

" yeah. F-- off, you bunch of ingrates, enjoy the rest of your drought." ( cloud bank sulkily drifts north)

[ 21. October 2014, 00:24: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

The Mike Diamond plumber ads on the radio: "Why won't a plumber just tell me what it costs to unclog my drain over the phone?"

If they could unclog drains over the phone, they would have long since retired on the proceeds.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Brain Gym - you reminded me of INSET days.

Tangent/ I think you would enjoy Ben Goldacre’s thoughts on the subject /tangent

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Brain Gym - you reminded me of INSET days.
Tangent/ I think you would enjoy Ben Goldacre’s thoughts on the subject /tangent

tangent response - definitely - have communicated with him on the subject/tangent

Posted by Athrawes (# 9594) on :

One of our oldest and most controversial Prime Ministers died today. He was a man of vision and immense wit, who made some serious mistakes and was dismissed from office. Tonight, the words, "Well may we say..." are heart sinking, because it means we are going to get yet another rehash of the 10 second sound bite from the dismissal. For some reason, the media think we need to hear it repeated ad nausium.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

I heard another politician today saying that we need to £step up to the plate".

On the eastern side of the Atlantic: honestly! He'd obviously been bowled a googly and got caught on the back foot.

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

Any word or phrase which appears in this video.

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

BTW I checked to see if anyone else had posted that video link; if anyone did and I missed it, sorry. It's so relevant to this discussion I thought someone probably had already thought of it.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I think the most heart-sinking words a man can ever hear are "We need to talk".

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

"I really like you — as a friend."

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I think the most heart-sinking words a man can ever hear are "We need to talk".

And some of the most heart-sinking, speaking as a woman though it is probably not confined to females, are "I'm not criticising you, but..." (Usually followed up with, "Why do you take things so personally?" [Roll Eyes]

)

I throw into the ring, "kingdom purposes." What the heck are they? [Confused]

Nen - loving this thread. [Big Grin]

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

From a senior executive to a group of employees:

"I'm sure you're all aware that..."

This is the stock introduction to layoffs.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

We have a staff opinion survey every year, participation in which is voluntary.

Where "voluntary" means "do it or else".

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

We have a "Vision discussion" tomorrow night at ringing practice with the vicar. It makes my heart sink even further as I really need to be getting some practice in before a ringing course at the weekend... instead we're (hopefully, mind) giving the vicar a hard time about the crap that's been going down.

AG

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

Oh yes, and "Enthusiastic" in job ads.

It's quite hard enough being enthusiastic about the process of trying to sell your soul to people who aren't interested in buying it, without having it rubbed in, thank you.

AG

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Ah, job ads. Particularly ones beginning 'You will be a -' (followed by list of Rottweiler-cum-spaniel attributes).

Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Oh yes, and "Enthusiastic" in job ads.

I meet your "enthusiastic" and raise you "Passionate". And I call David Mitchell as a witness.

Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :

Where do you see yourself in give years? Is another fun interview/performance evaluation question.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
We have a staff opinion survey every year, participation in which is voluntary.

Where "voluntary" means "do it or else".

All staff in my department have been instructed to take a course in 'Harassment and Bullying Awareness'.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Ah, job ads. Particularly ones beginning 'You will be a -' (followed by list of Rottweiler-cum-spaniel attributes).

I can translate those.

"You will be either a champion bullshitter or a sociopath. Ideally both."

Hope this helps.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Karl: Liberal Backslider: "You will be either a champion bullshitter or a sociopath. Ideally both."

When do you want me to start?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Do they still talk about 'blue skies thinking'?

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Only when there's an "elephant in the room".

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:

I throw into the ring, "kingdom purposes." What the heck are they?

Especially lovely when tagged onto your job description, as is often the case for clergy... a long long string of bulleted job responsibilities covering everything from weekly preaching to taking out the trash, followed by: "anything else that furthers the cause of Christ..."

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:

I throw into the ring, "kingdom purposes." What the heck are they?
Especially lovely when tagged onto your job description, as is often the case for clergy... a long long string of bulleted job responsibilities covering everything from weekly preaching to taking out the trash, followed by: "anything else that furthers the cause of Christ..."

So kingdom purposes are those which further the cause of Christ. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:

I throw into the ring, "kingdom purposes." What the heck are they?
Especially lovely when tagged onto your job description, as is often the case for clergy... a long long string of bulleted job responsibilities covering everything from weekly preaching to taking out the trash, followed by: "anything else that furthers the cause of Christ..."
So kingdom purposes are those which further the cause of Christ. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

aka anything (hopefully) short of petty larceny that we decide to ask you to do for any reason whatsoever...

Posted by Starbug (# 15917) on :

The 'kingdom purposes' sound very similar to this phrase: 'And any other duties commensurate with the grading of your post'. Any tasks that should be paid at a higher grade are a 'training opportunity' and, as such, don't incur any increase in salary.

[ 22. October 2014, 17:35: Message edited by: Starbug ]

Posted by BessLane (# 15176) on :

The oh-so-Southern "I don't mean to be ugly but..." It is always followed by a horrible, mean-spirited comment.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

or the ever-popular "we just really need to pray for our sister..." followed by a really juicy bit of gossip/ venting/ backstabbing...

Posted by Carex (# 9643) on :

Unfortunately I have a training next week for one of our management initiatives that will be dripping with such vocabulary, followed by a project where we recommend improvements to a process that we don't understand or know anything about.

Our group recently received such a list to implement. WTF???

This is one of three various "improvement processes" that have infected our facility at the moment. One has a logo showing a hammer and a pile of nails. Every time I walk by a poster I wonder if my Photoshop skills are sufficient to replace the nails with a pile of wood screws, which would be a more accurate assessment of its application.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

"It has been extremely difficult to shortlist candidates from such a talented pool of applicants..."

"We've run out of wine."

"Unexpected item in bagging area."

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

"We've run out of wine."

That intense guy in the corner -

Yeah. I don't like to ask.

There's his mum. Have a word with her.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
...All staff in my department have been instructed to take a course in 'Harassment and Bullying Awareness'.

We had to do a 'sexual harassment awareness" course and one of my colleagues (a gentleman) wanted to know if it would teach him how to tell if he was getting enough ... [Big Grin]

It was rather a long time ago, possibly not long after the term had been invented.

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Someone once scolded the word "utilize" out of me.

"Use." The word is "use."

And for some reason the kids are starting to throw around the word "conversate," which just makes me want to brain myself.

That IS bad. Try living in the American South where a certain segment of society uses the made up word for a funeral: funeralize. Every time I hear this "word" I want to throttle the speaker. "Joe Bob Billy Ray is being funeralized down at Lloyd's Funeral Home on Wednesday". Aaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BessLane:
The oh-so-Southern "I don't mean to be ugly but..." It is always followed by a horrible, mean-spirited comment.

Or the even worse one: "I'm a Christian but..." meaning you're exactly the opposite. That goes hand in hand with another oldie: "I'm not racist, but..."

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

"Kingdom purposes" means "Knows how to talk in evangelicalise" and use all of the current "hot" words.

Implies "has not idea how to talk in actual English".

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
Or the even worse one: "I'm a Christian but..." meaning you're exactly the opposite. That goes hand in hand with another oldie: "I'm not racist, but..."

Reminding me of an old "Alas Smith & Jones" (I think) gag:

"I'm not a racist, but I do believe that blacks and whites can best maintain their own cultural identities in isolation."

"I'm not a sexist, but I do believe that men and women are best suited to different occupations."

"I'm not a chiropodist, but I do make my living looking after people's feet."

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
Try living in the American South where a certain segment of society uses the made up word for a funeral: funeralize. Every time I hear this "word" I want to throttle the speaker. "Joe Bob Billy Ray is being funeralized down at Lloyd's Funeral Home on Wednesday". Aaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Shouldn't that be a funeralization home then?

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Heard one today, a Facebook query from a friend: Does anyone have a wet-dry vacuum cleaner I could borrow?

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:

quote:
Originally posted by BessLane:
The oh-so-Southern "I don't mean to be ugly but..." It is always followed by a horrible, mean-spirited comment.
Or the even worse one: "I'm a Christian but..." meaning you're exactly the opposite. That goes hand in hand with another oldie: "I'm not racist, but..."

Interesting. IME, "I'm not a racist but..." means "I am a complete and utter racist and...", but "I'm a Christian but..." is much more positive and means "I'm not a creationist, homophobe or misogynist."

"Speaking as a Christian..." is generally far more ominous, because it's likely to be followed by something like "it's about time we got back to God's Laws in this country and banned [insert Dead Horse here]"

[ 23. October 2014, 14:30: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

There is a useful rule of thumb that the word "frankly" will be followed by a lie. At the very least, it warns you that honesty is not the default mode for the speaker.

"Just Saying" following some insult as a free pass without retaliation.

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
"Speaking as a Christian..." is generally far more ominous, because it's likely to be followed by something like "it's about time we got back to God's Laws in this country and banned [insert Dead Horse here]"

Sorry but my brain automatically looks for the absurd in such situations so how about:

quote:
Speaking as a Christian its about time we got back to God's Laws in this country and banned bitching about church music

Jengie

[ 26. October 2014, 08:52: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

"The Bible clearly says ...." followed by a proof-text and a statement of the speakers beliefs in the matter.

I mean, why do people never find that the bible clearly says something they disagree with?

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
"The Bible clearly says ...." followed by a proof-text and a statement of the speakers beliefs in the matter.

I mean, why do people never find that the bible clearly says something they disagree with?

I do. All the time. That's the problem with it.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
"The Bible clearly says ...." followed by a proof-text and a statement of the speakers beliefs in the matter.

I mean, why do people never find that the bible clearly says something they disagree with?
I do. All the time. That's the problem with it.

Me too. It makes me a rotten preacher because while I am presenting Text A and stating what the 'clearly says', I am aware that Text B contradicts it. The sole remedy is to take a really deep approach that takes the rest of scripture into account, and you don't want me to try that.

The word that sinks my heart in such situations is 'finally'. It never indicates the end, nor even the end of the beginning. It's a noise preachers use when they realise the congo is thinking 'tea or coffee?'

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Ah yes - "In conclusion" - a phrase used about a third of the way into a sermon.

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

"Something will turn up soon".

AG

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

"No problem" as a substitute for "You're welcome."

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

But people who find the bible disagrees with them rarely use "the bible clearly says".

I particularly hate Christians who express Christian Fatalism. They tell you all sorts of crap that has happened, and finish by explaining how they spoke to someone, and it was all clearly a blessing. Or people say that "It is all part of Gods plan".

So crap happens, but there was some good, so it was a blessing after all? What a crappy God who makes me crash my car just so I can meet the repair man.

And if all the shit that happens is part of Gods plan, he SUCKS.

The thing is, good stuff happens, and crap happens. If the positive is God, then why is the crap not?

This is fatalism, not Christianity. Making everything part of "Gods Plan" is just an acceptance of what happens.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

'Outwith' is a death-dealing word for me, unless Scots use it.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"No problem" as a substitute for "You're welcome."

Or non-Americans saying, "You're welcome."

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

"you guys" ugh

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
"you guys" ugh

Hate it, hate it, hate it! Especially when a waiter says it to a group of women.
[Mad]

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

"You guys" is standard Californian plural for any collection of people of any gender where I grew up. Sorry about that.

Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
"You guys" is standard Californian plural for any collection of people of any gender where I grew up. Sorry about that.

It's also the start of The Electric Company:

Hey You Guys!!!!!

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"No problem" as a substitute for "You're welcome."
Or non-Americans saying, "You're welcome."

What do non-Americans say after being thanked?

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"No problem" as a substitute for "You're welcome."
Or non-Americans saying, "You're welcome."
What do non-Americans say after being thanked?

Er... "You're welcome" as far as I am aware. I do, at any rate.

Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :

"The roll of paper's just run out." Oh God. When you hear that at a cash register, it's always at the end of a gruelling day, when you've stood in line forever... and then they don't have more paper on hand, so have to page an assistant manager to go to the back and get more, and by the time that happens you have had plenty of time to re-evaluate your life choices.

Bonus points: it's equally heart-sinking when referring to toilet paper.

From American politics: "The people of the great state of..." Yes, yes, I'm sure your state is great, unlike those other great states. Americans, how can you hear this and not plug your nose against the torrent of bullshit that is about to follow?

Rage-inducing: stakeholders. Tempts me to become one, but in a far more literal sense.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
From American politics: "The people of the great state of..." Yes, yes, I'm sure your state is great, unlike those other great states. Americans, how can you hear this and not plug your nose against the torrent of bullshit that is about to follow?

Because we know it's just a rhetorical formality. And because it's not as eye-wateringly stinky as that other bit of crap from American political speeches: "The United States is the greatest country in the world." Presidents and presidential candidates are the worst for this. I always want to heave a brick through the TV.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Actually I do plug my nose at that one. It's so 1835. Every time I hear some senator talking about his "great state" I picture him with a straw hat, tugging at his suspender straps, speaking from the back door of a caboose.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
"You guys" is standard Californian plural for any collection of people of any gender where I grew up. Sorry about that.

It's becoming standard plural in England in the same contexts too. Sadly.

It seriously offends my pedant side almost to the point of revulsion: "guy" was first used of the male gender. When used not everyone present is (usually) male - so wrong use.

Then, a "guy" was usually a dupe or someone to be exploited. Is that how groups of people are seen? Wrong use (invariably).

Then, it's a Californian thing: I'm sure it works there. Apologies LC but there's some things that come across the Atlantic which should never travel. This is one of them. Wrong use (universally). [Of course, the same applies in reverse to things like David Cameron].

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

"Conservative Politician"

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

EM, might you wish to add to that "re-elected"? [Devil]

(Actually, our local Tory MP is jolly good. I can't see the candidate from The Other Lot being anything as competent. But I don't want another Conservative government ...).

[ 28. October 2014, 06:34: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Actually I do plug my nose at that one. It's so 1835. Every time I hear some senator talking about his "great state" I picture him with a straw hat, tugging at his suspender straps, speaking from the back door of a caboose.

That image is even funnier if you imagine the British-English meaning of 'suspender'.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
"You guys" is standard Californian plural for any collection of people of any gender where I grew up. Sorry about that.
It's becoming standard plural in England in the same contexts too. Sadly.

It seriously offends my pedant side almost to the point of revulsion: "guy" was first used of the male gender. When used not everyone present is (usually) male - so wrong use. ...

Hear Hear!

A 'guy' does not include anyone female. If people feel so strongly against words like 'mankind', 'guy' and 'guys' are likewise out in the same way for any context that includes women. If you're willing to use or let others use 'guy' that way, then stop whittling when us oldies forget and use 'he' and 'man' as a general term that includes women.

And don't say 'it's become non-gendered by usage'. All that's doing is claiming that your usage takes precedence to mine.

Rant over.

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"No problem" as a substitute for "You're welcome."
Or non-Americans saying, "You're welcome."
What do non-Americans say after being thanked?
Er... "You're welcome" as far as I am aware. I do, at any rate.

I'm deliberately adding to the multiquote to make the same point; if UK English has an equivalent expression then I'm all ears.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

We clearly need to go down the German "danke schon ... bitte schon" path.

I don't think the Brits have a single phrase to de that - possibly relating to our diffidence in being thanked. Perhaps "that's fine" (or similar) are about the closest.

Anyway, "You're welcome" is much better than the apocryphal "Have a nice day".

(Tangent: when I was young, the phrase "See you later" meant "I'll see you later on today". Now it seems to mean "at some - reasonably close - time in the future". Is this a slight change in usage or simply a regional variation?)

[ 28. October 2014, 07:36: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:

quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"No problem" as a substitute for "You're welcome."
Or non-Americans saying, "You're welcome."
What do non-Americans say after being thanked?
Er... "You're welcome" as far as I am aware. I do, at any rate.
I'm deliberately adding to the multiquote to make the same point; if UK English has an equivalent expression then I'm all ears.

Not at all. Don't mention it.

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

Yeah, I'd thought about 'Don't mention it', but to my ears both of your suggestions sound overly formal/ old-fashioned. 'Don't mention it, old chap.'

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

LC has explained where I got the "guys" usage from - a friend from San Francisco. I did not realise how local it was. And I really needed an inclusive noun for groups of children (yeah, I know I could say, "Come on, children", but I didn't want to sound like Joyce Grenfell (except when I was was reading monologues to the class).) Because we didn't use guys as a group word for boys, I thought it would do. I note that the children did not like Danny in Dr Who calling them "team".

Anyone got an idea for a gender-free, casual word for such occasions?

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Yeah, I'd thought about 'Don't mention it', but to my ears both of your suggestions sound overly formal/ old-fashioned. 'Don't mention it, old chap.'

"My pleasure" or the one I think I have used recently "fine". Don't know where I picked it up but it fitted in context.

Jengie

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

Good point - 'My pleasure' sometimes does fit.

A place where I have liked using 'You're welcome' is on the towpath of the canal. In situations when a young person wishes to pass, says excuse me and then thanks you after you have stepped aside, then they are literally welcome to share that area with me.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
LC has explained where I got the "guys" usage from . . . Anyone got an idea for a gender-free, casual word for such occasions?

Folks.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

This is exactly why I started using the word " y'all" .

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

I just came across the word "impactful" and died a little on the inside.

[ 28. October 2014, 12:44: Message edited by: la vie en rouge ]

Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :

I've started using "y'all" too, although I occasionally slip into saying "guys", which doesn't really offend me now. Although it did years ago when I used to work with a young man (Strict Baptist IIRC) who used to say it on coming into our office, which was about evenly split into female and male staff. So one day I breezed in addressing them as "girls!" which got right up his nose. Which served him right [Razz]

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
I've started using "y'all" too,

Do you wear a broad brimmed hat and cowboy boots as well? Surely the plural of 'you' is 'youse'?

quote:
although I occasionally slip into saying "guys", which doesn't really offend me now. Although it did years ago when I used to work with a young man (Strict Baptist IIRC) who used to say it on coming into our office, which was about evenly split into female and male staff. So one day I breezed in addressing them as "girls!" which got right up his nose. Which served him right

Well said.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

Even worse is the plural possessive, which I have heard more than a few times -- you guyses'.

[Help]

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Yeah, I'd thought about 'Don't mention it', but to my ears both of your suggestions sound overly formal/ old-fashioned ...

I use "not at all" quite a lot, and "don't mention it" occasionally, and I'm not that old. [Big Grin]

I do find that "not a problem" grates on my nerves after a while (some restaurant staff here use it ad nauseam).

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Folks, OK, Y'all comes with some Confederate baggage, does it not? At the very least, line dancing.

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

I adopted "y'all" some years ago as well, I think because "you" could be either singular or plural.

Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :

No doubt, Penny S [Big Grin]

but it's a handy, if [pedant mode] incorrect, phrase - I use it when texting my kids to ask how they are, to cover them, spouses/partners, stepkids, jobs, current problems, various cats... "Y'all ok?" kinda thing. See? Handy [Biased]

[ 28. October 2014, 17:54: Message edited by: Pine Marten ]

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Those sort of contexts, I'd probably just use "All OK?" I think I have, actually.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
"You guys" is standard Californian plural for any collection of people of any gender where I grew up. Sorry about that.

Me too. Although once I had a boss who would resolutely ignore any request, question, or statement that included the phrase-- with no explanation. It was so outside of my experience at the time to have someone be offended by the term it took me a long time (and, I suspect, countless times offending my boss) to figure out what was going on.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Folks, OK, Y'all comes with some Confederate baggage, does it not? At the very least, line dancing.

It's certainly Southern but in my part of the US, seems more charmingly so, rather than bringing to mind the Confederacy and all that. I've taken to using it on occasion--as noted, above it's just so useful in delineating plural usage.

Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Folks, OK, Y'all comes with some Confederate baggage, does it not? At the very least, line dancing.
It's certainly Southern but in my part of the US, seems more charmingly so, rather than bringing to mind the Confederacy and all that. I've taken to using it on occasion--as noted, above it's just so useful in delineating plural usage.

Sadly, many Australians feel the need to differentiate the singular 2nd person pronoun from the plural by adding an "s" to "you". "Yous came late but." is the sort of heart-sinking sentence one hears in certain quarters.

Posted by The Machine Elf (# 1622) on :

'Yous' is also common in Northern Ireland. One phrase the UK seems to have borrowed is 'no worries' in response to 'thank you' (which I think is different to how it is used originally), also people say 'no problem' or just say 'thank you' back to thank the thanker for being thanked.

TME

Posted by Anesti (# 18259) on :

"you" is derived from the second person plural, as I am sure you all know. It is "thou" that we stopped using.

Placing an s makes sense if you consider that this is how plural nouns are formed. So why not pronouns?

I don't use it, but I don't see any illogic in its formation.

It may be ignorant (in the sense that it is unaware) but it isn't illogical by any means.

The two other languages that I speak use a plural second person pronoun that differs froom the singular second person.

To me it shows aptitude in laguage learning. It's just one of those frequent cases in which one has to say "you're right but the language does not work that way".

Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anesti:
"you" is derived from the second person plural, as I am sure you all know. It is "thou" that we stopped using.

Placing an s makes sense if you consider that this is how plural nouns are formed. So why not pronouns?

I don't use it, but I don't see any illogic in its formation.

It may be ignorant (in the sense that it is unaware) but it isn't illogical by any means.

The two other languages that I speak use a plural second person pronoun that differs froom the singular second person.

To me it shows aptitude in laguage learning. It's just one of those frequent cases in which one has to say "you're right but the language does not work that way".

I made no claim about logic.
[Roll Eyes]

the English language is many things but logical is not one of them. There is no such word as "yous", it is jarring to the ear and an incorrect application of a commonly used way of forming plurals.

One expects children below the age of 4 to misapply general language rules, To hear a 3yo refer to his "foots" or to say he has "eated" his dinner or seen the "sheeps" is an indication of a developmental phase in language acquisition. it is at the least, unfortunate for an adult to misuse their native tongue in such a way and indicates a stalling of language development. YMMV and rest assured I will comprehend your meaning when you say "yous".

Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Machine Elf:
'Yous' is also common in Northern Ireland. One phrase the UK seems to have borrowed is 'no worries' in response to 'thank you' (which I think is different to how it is used originally), also people say 'no problem' or just say 'thank you' back to thank the thanker for being thanked.

TME

I find "no worries" in response to being thanked for doing something a charming Australian idiom. [Big Grin]

Australians are vaguely uncomfortable with "you're welcome", it has faint overtones of the thanker being somehow indebted or even of lesser status than the thankee, so "no worries" is like saying "don't mention it", "it's of no consequence" "forget it, it's a mere trifle".

I think the original meaning of "no worries" was almost another way of saying "she'll be right mate", whatever it is that you're concerned about will all be ok. This was extended to mean "you don't have to worry about being indebted to me" when you were thanked.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Folks, OK, Y'all comes with some Confederate baggage, does it not? At the very least, line dancing.
It's certainly Southern but in my part of the US, seems more charmingly so, rather than bringing to mind the Confederacy and all that. I've taken to using it on occasion--as noted, above it's just so useful in delineating plural usage.

Yeah, my first reaction to that was whaaaa?

Yeah, Southern does not automatically equal Confederacy, and y'all is frequently used in the Midwest and Southwest, ( and has been for over two centuries)and practically ubiquitous in African- American patois all over the country.
( and "yous" or "yez" are pretty handy, too.)

[ 29. October 2014, 00:39: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

"Youse" is a common term in working class slang, especially in East Coast American cities with large German populations. I think it's on the wane with the general erosion of local dialects thanks to radio and television.

I first heard non-gendered use of guys when I was the token male on a Lesbian construction crew for the Names Project. I've also heard it as San Francisco usage.
The use of "Gals" or "Guys and Gals" can receive a negative reception, and I'm not sure "Guys and Dolls" was ever heard outside of Damon Runyon's column.

I think of Y'all as a Southern idiom. I rarely use it for fear of being thought to be mocking.

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Someone once scolded the word "utilize" out of me.

"Use." The word is "use."

I would have agreed until I was advised by a Scottish school teacher (from Paisley) that "utilize" is sometimes needed to avoid confusion with "youse".

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Look. 'Youse' isn't good grammar. Nor is y'all. We all know that. As far as I know, 'youse' is a scouse word, but it's probably found in other places as well.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

And anyway, the full form is youse'ns - as opposed to them'ns.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Look. 'Youse' isn't good grammar. Nor is y'all. We all know that. As far as I know, 'youse' is a scouse word, but it's probably found in other places as well.

They're perfectly good Grammar. They're not standard, but they're perfectly grammatical and there are rules observed by those who use them that govern their use. Not prescriptive rules written by a grammarian; real rules that can be discerned from the usage of the speech community in which they are found.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Hear, hear.

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

I don't have a problem saying 'You all'. It works well in the absence of thou and you!

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

When people say 'youse' I hear 'yews' - it can make life a tad confusing.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
I don't have a problem saying 'You all'. It works well in the absence of thou and you!

In Virginia we say you all rather than y'all. The only problem is in forming a possessive. In that situation, I tend to say "y'alls".

Moo

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Back to the OP "Team brief"; "Staff briefing".

Also, anyone telling you their job title ends with "agent" and doesn't start with "special" or "secret". It's often a sign that they're an arsehole.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

"We should form a task force."

Because more meetings will make things better...

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
"We should form a task force."

Because more meetings will make things better...

Better known to me as a "Task Farce", as my brother referred to them thus as far back as the nineteen-sixties.

If it doesn't include at least one aircraft carrier, it isn't a task force. A bit like workshops, which ought to include saws, screwdrivers, drills and hammers, not white boards and post-its.

Posted by Anesti (# 18259) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
I made no claim about logic.

I never claimed that you made such a claim.

quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:it is at the least, unfortunate for an adult to misuse their native tongue in such a way and indicates a stalling of language development.

Using the word unfortunate as a euphamism is surely an ideal addition to this thread.

quote:
YMMV and rest assured I will comprehend your meaning when you say "yous". [/QB]

You must have overlooked the part in my post where I had written "I don't use it,".

I will rest assured that you will comprehend my meaning later, perhaps.

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
"We should form a task force."

Because more meetings will make things better...

I just hope it's going to be a
Grass Roots task force.

Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
When people say 'youse' I hear 'yews' - it can make life a tad confusing.

I hear "ewes" which is probably even more so.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Thank you everyone for your input. Do we have buy-in on workshopping through role play and brainstorming in order to leverage our synergies in an outcome-orientated timeframe? Let's stick that to the wall for the moment and take five.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Thank you everyone for your input. Do we have buy-in on workshopping through role play and brainstorming in order to leverage our synergies in an outcome-orientated timeframe? Let's stick that to the wall for the moment and take five.

Oi! You! Firenze! No!

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

To return briefly to the youse/y'all tangent, doesn't the fact that so many regional dialects of English have a plural "you" suggest that the language is crying out for our lost second-person-plural pronoun? Other languages have one; why did we give up ours? Here in Newfoundland may be one of the last places on earth where people say "ye" colloquially to indicate the second person plural, but there's clearly a need for it. Sometimes it's very important to distinguish whether one of you or the whole crowd of ye is being addressed.

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

We do have the Second Person Plural - it's the First Person Singular 'thou' that we lost.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

My subconscious has been repressing "360° feedback". Mostly because it’s a big fat lie. If it was really 360°, they would let me evaluate my manager. And there’s no chance of them letting me do that any time soon, is there?

Posted by Anesti (# 18259) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
We do have the Second Person Plural - it's the Second Person Singular 'thou' that we lost.

FTFY

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anesti:

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
We do have the Second Person Plural - it's the Second Person Singular 'thou' that we lost.
FTFY

! Whoops.

Lord I was blind...

Pride cometh...

Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
My subconscious has been repressing "360° feedback". Mostly because it’s a big fat lie. If it was really 360°, they would let me evaluate my manager. And there’s no chance of them letting me do that any time soon, is there?

360 feedback is a load of crap and I'm pretty sure it was found to be ineffective BUT if it is truly 360 degree feedback then you should be allowed to review your mngr-or at least your manager should be reviewed by at least 1 person who reports to him/her/. I have reviewed bosses and ppl who reported 2 me reviewed me.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
My subconscious has been repressing "360° feedback". Mostly because it’s a big fat lie. If it was really 360°, they would let me evaluate my manager.

Surely that'd be 180°?

Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anesti:

quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
I made no claim about logic.

I never claimed that you made such a claim.

quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:it is at the least, unfortunate for an adult to misuse their native tongue in such a way and indicates a stalling of language development.
Using the word unfortunate as a euphamism is surely an ideal addition to this thread.

quote:
YMMV and rest assured I will comprehend your meaning when you say "yous".
You must have overlooked the part in my post where I had written "I don't use it,".

I will rest assured that you will comprehend my meaning later, perhaps. [/QB]

Bit too keen to take the plural non-specific "you" as personally directed to your very own singular self there Anesti and you've got the cheek to have a go at my comprehension.
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

Igniting lightsaber
Anesti and Evangeline, knock off the personal attacks. Re-read the Ten Commandments, especially number four.

Remember, this is Heaven!

jedijudy
Heaven host
Lightsaber off

Posted by QLib (# 43) on :

I've just seen this awesome video in which X did something not particularly interesting to Y - and Y's AMAZING reaction totally blew me away. I'd share it with you, but ....

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

"Isn't it time to think about booking somewhere for the office Christmas lunch?"

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Already too late, isn't it?

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Depends where you are.

Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on :

"Excuse me, can you help me? I'm parked in the 15 minute zone and I need....."

From years of working in retail. If he needed it in less than 15 minutes I knew there was a very good chance it would not take less than 15 minutes.

"Last call!"

At a bar, Saturday night.

[ 31. October 2014, 22:03: Message edited by: Pancho ]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
"Isn't it time to think about booking somewhere for the office Christmas lunch?"

Now is the time to go vegan.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Look. 'Youse' isn't good grammar. Nor is y'all....

I say 'You lot' even when addressing my pupils. I am understood.

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:

Sometimes it's very important to distinguish whether one of you or the whole crowd of ye is being addressed.

Yes. A colleague from Mississippi once explained to me that, when addressing a group, one uses the plural form "all y'all."

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

'The grammar of colloquial speech' is beginning to depress my spirits a tad now.

Not quite the subject of the thread.

Firenze, HH

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Shouldn't 360° feedback be me looking in a mirror and saying 'what a fantastic chap you are'?

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Shouldn't 360° feedback be me looking in a mirror and saying 'what a fantastic chap you are'?

Indeed it should. I have bored and exasperated any number of managers and HR drones by describing it as 180° feedback.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

That reminds me of people who say they will "give 110%" to a task.

Literally.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
That reminds me of people who say they will "give 110%" to a task.

Literally.

That's like saying all schools/hospitals/etc must be better than average, or in the highest percentile (another horrible word by the way). It is particularly bad when this is demanded of organisations one of whose reasons for existence is to teach children basic maths.

Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :

I heard someone on the news talk about 'the customer experience'. Bleurgh.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
That's like saying all schools/hospitals/etc must be better than average...

Garrison Keiller (sp?) in his Prairie Home Companion talked about a place where all the children were above average.

Moo

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

"[Train company] welcomes you aboard.."

Aaargh no, please don't welcome me aboard. Don't. Just don't. If you do, I know that not only will you also recite the long list of destinations between here and eternity, but you will inexorably continue with "in the interests of safety and security..." and tell me this train is fitted with CCTV, I must report any suspicious persons I become aware of, mustn't leave unaccompanied bags alone, must take a moment to read the important safety information in the vestibule - then you'll finally shut up - until the next station, when I'll be encouraged to mind the gap, make sure I have my ticket because there are barriers, step down carefully onto the platform and take all my belongings (which I haven't brought) with me.

It's not even my stop.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Ariel: "[Train company] welcomes you aboard.."

In Belgium they do this in four languages.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

"Wow. Just wow."

In all honesty though, it doesn't make my heart sink, so much as it makes my hand want to slap.

Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
My subconscious has been repressing "360° feedback". Mostly because it’s a big fat lie. If it was really 360°, they would let me evaluate my manager. And there’s no chance of them letting me do that any time soon, is there?

We have 720° feedback. The faculty assess the students work. The students provide the faculty with feedback on their courses. The faculty tells the students what they have done to respond to the feedback. The student representatives comment on the faculty's response to the student feedback to the way the course was assessed.

Posted by TonyK (# 35) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dal Segno:
We have 720° feedback. The faculty assess the students work. The students provide the faculty with feedback on their courses. The faculty tells the students what they have done to respond to the feedback. The student representatives comment on the faculty's response to the student feedback to the way the course was assessed.

And in among all this assessing and responding, does anybody actually do any studying?

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
"We should form a task force."

Because more meetings will make things better...

Oh, I really shouldn't have posted this. Guess who just found out he has to chair one of the bloody things...

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dal Segno:

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
My subconscious has been repressing "360° feedback". Mostly because it’s a big fat lie. If it was really 360°, they would let me evaluate my manager. And there’s no chance of them letting me do that any time soon, is there?
We have 720° feedback. The faculty assess the students work. The students provide the faculty with feedback on their courses. The faculty tells the students what they have done to respond to the feedback. The student representatives comment on the faculty's response to the student feedback to the way the course was assessed.

Kill them. You know it's the only way. No jury in the land would convict.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

CLASSROOM MANAGEMENT is a euphemism for coercing or gently persuading pupils to behave well and learn their lessons or punishing them if they don't. It is malarkey!

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

And along with that, Challenging Behaviour.

I thought, at first, that that was when a child deliberately challenged the teacher, as in "You have got that wrong." But it turned out to be more general, as in behaviour which requires Classroom Management.

[ 04. November 2014, 11:49: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

Sorry, I gave up after the first page - but I'd like to contribute this (in the hope it wasn't on the other pages):

Gifted. As in I have been gifted with many blessings; She has been gifted with a marvellous ministry.

What's wrong with 'I've been given'??

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Also, using 'gifting' as a fancy word for 'gift'.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Mudfrog, you so speak to my condition about the loss of give, gave and given. I cringe whenever gifted is used as a verb.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Mudfrog, you so speak to my condition about the loss of give, gave and given. I cringe whenever gifted is used as a verb.

It makes me want to gift them one in the cobblers.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

One I heard today:

"We need to give 100%". Yeah, because I normally just give 10% at the start of a project, and build up to around 60%. Now you ask, thought, I will boost up and give it all.

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
That reminds me of people who say they will "give 110%" to a task.

Literally.
That's like saying all schools/hospitals/etc must be better than average, or in the highest percentile (another horrible word by the way). It is particularly bad when this is demanded of organisations one of whose reasons for existence is to teach children basic maths.

Rather magnificently, the now ex Sec of state for education, seemed to think something similar.

quote:

Q98 Chair: One is: if "good" requires pupil performance to exceed the national average, and if all schools must be good, how is this mathematically possible?
Michael Gove: By getting better all the time.
Q99 Chair: So it is possible, is it?
Michael Gove: It is possible to get better all the time.
Q100 Chair: Were you better at literacy than numeracy, Secretary of State?
Michael Gove: I cannot remember.

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :

MrJt9 took Children A&B to London last week. The tube station they disembarked at only has lifts to floor level. There had been some problems with the lifts, and as the doors closed on MrJt9 and the kids, the station announcer said "We should be alright.....".

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

Jemima, it sounds like Lake Woebegone, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

We have a gentleman of lofty position in our church administration here who uses the word "wisdom" as an adjective, when he ought to use "wise." As in, "I think it would be wisdom to bring this back to committee for further discussion," or "It wouldn't be wisdom for us to vote on this right now." As you can probably tell from my examples, my husband sits on a couple of committees with this man. We have taken to tallying up misuses of "wisdom" when we get emails from him.

I think it started with him saying something jargony but not technically incorrect, like, "There would be wisdom in doing it that way," but has now spiralled out of control to the point where I just want to scream at him that THERE IS ALREADY AN ADJECTIVE FORM OF THAT WORD CAN'T YOU JUST SAY 'WISE'?

Also, of course, even if used properly from a grammatical point of view, "wisdom" makes your opinion sound so much more important and holy that just "my opinion," or "a good idea."

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Also, of course, even if used properly from a grammatical point of view, "wisdom" makes your opinion sound so much more important and holy that just "my opinion," or "a good idea."

/tangent

I haven't been able to take that word seriously since I heard of an EU Parliamentarian for a part of Northern France espouse the excellence of "La Sagace Normande". Proceedings are subject to simultaneous translation and for once all the British MEPs were united in falling over laughing at the mention of "Norman Wisdom".

tangent/

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

I hope the Three Wisdom Men will be heading for Bethlehem soon.
[Biased]

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I hope the Three Wisdom Men will be heading for Bethlehem soon.

If only to promote their nice new seasonal range of dental hygiene products, carefully designed for the discerning traveller.

We recommend The Balthazar, a gold-plated toothbrush with genuine camel-hair bristles. To go with that, Caspar's Pearl Drops, an original blend of Eastern myrrh and Western mint, designed to whiten, brighten and indeed frighten with its sheer power and flavour. And finally, to complete the trio, Melchior's Mouthwash, a frankincense gargle, made from an ancient Timgadian recipe, the like and effect of which have never previously been known.

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :

Wintery showers. Brrrrrr.

Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:

..... "wisdom" makes your opinion sound so much more important and holy that just "my opinion," or "a good idea."

"spirit-led" has similar qualities. Someone sitting near me on a bus yesterday was complaining into his mobile phone that people at his church were not "spirit-led" in meetings. Apparently people were suggesting hymns for inclusion in a service because they liked a particular hymn.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Perhaps the CofE is very wise in not including The Book of Wisdom in most of the Bibles it authorises for use.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
... people at his church were not "spirit-led" in meetings ...

Perhaps he ought to provide some GIN. [Devil]

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

My late mother called a friend's d-in-l and, on getting the reply "I'm in a baby shower right now" replied "Well, I hope you've all got brollies and aren't too wet." : Confusion on the other end of the 'phone.

The word is PARTY and you're AT a party (as in celebration), IN applies to things like membership.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Was it "raining cats and dogs" at the time? And did your comment put her "in a stew"?

"Literally", of course! [Devil]

]

[ 06. November 2014, 17:01: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

"We apologise for the inconvenience".

Doubled if they would like to apologise.

eta: the non-specific use of 'they' gets my goat too. If you mean the government, council, immigrants, EU or bus company, say so, otherwise you're having a non-specific, lazy and pointless whinge.

[ 07. November 2014, 09:04: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
"We apologise for the inconvenience".

Doubled if they would like to apologise.

Tripled if the announcement was pre-recorded by someone who clearly couldn't care less.

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

Received an email this week from the local council about a "Consultation on the future of library services" (or somesuch wording)... why does that sound like weasel words for "We're going to make cuts"?

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
Received an email this week from the local council about a "Consultation on the future of library services" (or somesuch wording)... why does that sound like weasel words for "We're going to make cuts"?

Because that's always the context when it is used.

"Your call is really important to us"? No it isn't. If it was, they'd employ enough people to answer the telephone.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

On a similar line, buses which display "Sorry, not in service".

If they were truly sorry, they'd stop and pick us up.

Also, signs around roadworks which apologise for "these essential works" - as if that makes them any less annoying!

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

The road sign I hate is 'New traffic patterns ahead'.

Translation; the road is torn up and you have to weave your way around barrels on an unpaved or semi-paved surface.

Moo

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Together with "Raised Ironworks".

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Another roadworks special is the sign "RAMP".

This does not indicate a ramp. I know what a ramp is, most children of ten could tell you, but the sign at roadworks indicates an abrupt change in level of anything up to three inches.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

Road signs warning of pot-holes: the "normal" state of the road surfaces here is so bad* that if they're actually warning you about them, there's a chance that if you drive over one you'll get lost ...

* The definition of a good winter here is only having to replace one tyre.

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :

I have just had an email from a Major Online Retailer (named after a river) to "Soundtrack your winter..."

[Projectile]

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Forth Books? Tyne Foods? Nile Cosmetics?

Ah, I've got it: Severn Stuff!

[ 07. November 2014, 15:43: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

The law firm where I work signs partners up for a rather pricy private medical service. They are entitled to an annual check-up. I called to make an appointment for someone and was told I was going to speak to “Health Screening Fulfilment”.

Posted by daronmedway (# 3012) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
This post in Hell reminded me that there are some words or phrases that just seem to bleach all hope of fun from the world.

What are your (least) favourites?

Deanery anything
Ad Clerum
Worshipping Community
Fresh Expression

Posted by daronmedway (# 3012) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
"We apologise for the inconvenience".

Doubled if they would like to apologise.

I've been tempted to pop in and collect my apology which, at my insistence, would include the word "sorry". Describing an action isn't same as doing it.

Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :

quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:

quote:
I've been tempted to pop in and collect my apology which, at my insistence, would include the word "sorry". Describing an action isn't same as doing it.

Even "sorry" can turn into a non-apology as in "We're sorry that you feel we have failed to meet our usually high standards"

[ 07. November 2014, 19:55: Message edited by: justlooking ]

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
This post in Hell reminded me that there are some words or phrases that just seem to bleach all hope of fun from the world.

What are your (least) favourites?
Deanery anything
Ad Clerum
Worshipping Community
Fresh Expression

Closure. I hate that word with a passion. It's overused and meaningless to anyone who isn't a psychiatrist or psychotherapist and it makes ME psycho to have to hear it bandied about all the time. "Godly Play" is another cringe-inducing expression. A church where I used to volunteer has a program for toddlers and the teacher proudly told me that she's the teacher for all "Godly Play" events. I guess that means teaching little Johnny not to bash little Suzie over the head with a toy tractor but the name just sets my teeth on edge.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

If we're going to have Godly Play I want the Sword of Justice.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

"Advanced Warning". What happened to the old-fashioned simple sort of warning, such as, "Look out!"

Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
"Advanced Warning". What happened to the old-fashioned simple sort of warning, such as, "Look out!"

Quite - and besides, it should probably be "advance warning", unless the warning is really far advanced (however that would work)
...
..

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

That was my precise point! [Devil]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

In a government document for benefit claimants, which I have been explaining to someone: 'If you feel like you are worried...'

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
'If you feel like you are worried...'

No, I feel like I want to smack you round the head with the complete works of Shakespeare, Bunyan, Swift and Austen. The vapid, mithering language of 'concern' - bah!

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

Bearing in mind I do a technical job helping the profoundly non-technical:

"Oh, can you just do something for me? It's not complicated and won't take long."

a) you don't know enough to be able to judge whether or not it's complicated

b) you therefore have no idea how long it will take

c) but you've already decided it's quick and easy, which shows exactly what you think of me compared to you, even though you're too stupid to do it yourself

d) if it really is quick and easy, JUST FUCKING DO IT ALREADY!

Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
In a government document for benefit claimants, which I have been explaining to someone: 'If you feel like you are worried...'

YES! "If you feel like you are worried" rather than "if you are worried" is a patronising refusal to accept that someone may be genuinely worried.

Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
On a similar line, buses which display "Sorry, not in service".

I once saw that kind of bus which has illuminated signs on the front with "Sorry" in large letters, and "not in service" in smaller letters. However, the latter was not working, so the bus just had a general "Sorry!" on the front. I thought it very British to be apologetic about everything.

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

algorithm (yes I looked it up, that's how 'they' spell it). This is a very popular word these days; all kinds of people use it, and it seems able to mean a variety of things. However it means nothing to me. I try to get some meaning from the context, but no go. I did google it, and do understand the similarity to a recipe- a task that requires certain steps to be taken, in order.

But I believe that many people who stick this word into their writing or speaking know zilch what it means, just like me!

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
algorithm ...

I think it means 'this includes a calculation which a machine does for us, and we don't understand either'.

Another horror, 'I am unable' as in 'I regret to say that I am unable to comply with your request'. Just occasionally it means what it should mean, which is 'it is impossible' as in 'I have no wings and therefore I am unable to fly'. More usually, it means 'I have considered your request and do not want to/ can't be bothered to give you what you're asking for, but would prefer a euphemism that lets me off saying that'.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

"No one does that anymore."

Well, maybe not to qualify for membership in your woefully limited circle, but where I hang out plenty of folk still do it.

Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"No one does that anymore."

Well, maybe not to qualify for membership in your woefully limited circle, but where I hang out plenty of folk still do it.

...or even just "nobody does"!
So I am not anybody? How do they know?

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I have just come across an early use of "gifting". Mary Shelley, a dream gifting her with the image of the man beign constructed by Dr Frankenstein.

Can't complain about that, can I?

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Yes you can. I've accused The Bard of unnecessary wordsmithery. The professionals really should know better.

Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :

Last week I taught the 'Hokey Pokey' to a group of 5 and 6 year olds and one boy said they were too old for a baby dance. A 10 year old later in the day said, "I don't mean to be offensive, but aren't we too old for musical chairs?" So heart sinking when kids want to grow up and be cool so soon.

I told the six year old that I was pretty sure the 'Hokey Pokey' was originally written for adults, so no, it is not a baby dance. Kind of glad I just looked up the origin now to check though as it would be really tricky to explain to little kids. Who knew the Hokey Pokey was so controversial?

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If we're going to have Godly Play I want the Sword of Justice.

Here you go.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

I just heard someone on the news say that he and his wife had faith that God would prosper them.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If we're going to have Godly Play I want the Sword of Justice.
Here you go.

Oh dear. Apparently the Armour of God is only for boys...

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I expect Uzgurls get the Whole Pinafore of God (with matching hat).

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Hokey Pokey? A dance?

I assumed you were talking about ice cream [Ultra confused]

I suspect another 'pond' difference.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

I think it may be what we call the hokey-cokey.

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I expect Uzgurls get the Whole Pinafore of God (with matching hat).

And perhaps, no shoes?

Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :

Yes in the UK apparently it's the Hokey Cokey. The link is long, but explains it all if you really want to know why. Ice-cream, Catholic slur, magic spell or just a silly name - apparently the origins of the name are not fully known.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
"Godly Play" is another cringe-inducing expression. A church where I used to volunteer has a program for toddlers and the teacher proudly told me that she's the teacher for all "Godly Play" events. I guess that means teaching little Johnny not to bash little Suzie over the head with a toy tractor but the name just sets my teeth on edge.

It's actually a
trendy children's curriculum with a fairly rigorous training/screening for the teachers. Some good things about it, but filled with it's own heart-sinking jargon, including the ubiquitous "I wonder..." questions.

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

"Cyclists Merging" A traffic sign seen on the roads around here where all traffic going in both directions is squished into one cycle lane and one directional lane. I always envisage a cyclist (me) being mashed on the front of a large truck or bus. [Help]

The equivalent for pedestrians is "Use other footpath" on both sides of the road.

A flying car like the one in Harry Potter might be the answer.

Huia

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

There is, of course, the equally baffling sign which says, "Drivers use both lanes". If you try to comply, folk behind you tend to get irritated.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

As a child, any mention of the Hokey-Cokey was enough to make my heart sink.

Hated, hated, hated it. Along with action songs and all that cringe-inducing shit that the "look at me look at me look at me" attention whores so loved.

Yeah, my dislike of extroversion and extreme difficulty getting on with extroverts started very early.

Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :

(Tangent) You'll be glad to know I let the boy who hated it sit it out then. I think he may have been on the autism spectrum too and really was against it. He and his friend watched while the rest of us had fun being silly. He joined in the rest of the kids songs and musical statues though. I'm an introvert, but I've never had trouble with dancing/silly songs as long as everyone is joining in and I'm not the centre of attention.

My lawyer friend said at her work they were filmed doing a 7 minute presentation on a given topic and then had to watch it back and critique themselves. My heart would be more than sinking if my boss told me I had to do that.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mili:
(Tangent) You'll be glad to know I let the boy who hated it sit it out then. I think he may have been on the autism spectrum too and really was against it. He and his friend watched while the rest of us had fun being silly. He joined in the rest of the kids songs and musical statues though. I'm an introvert, but I've never had trouble with dancing/silly songs as long as everyone is joining in and I'm not the centre of attention.

My lawyer friend said at her work they were filmed doing a 7 minute presentation on a given topic and then had to watch it back and critique themselves. My heart would be more than sinking if my boss told me I had to do that.

Argh! I'd run screaming from the building! I hate recordings of me speaking, videos of me - not even that keen on photos. I always think I look like the "before he went on the mad rampage" picture you might see on a distressing article in the paper.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

The two ugly stepsisters of traffic control, "Delayed Green" and "Wait For Green Light".

Seems the delay or the wait is always on my side of the light, while traffic in the other direction proceeds on its merry way for what seems forever before my side of the light gets around to turning green.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Ah yes. On rural roads we sometimes have the temporary '4 way traffic control' when they're digging up a pavement or something at a junction.
The delay on the light changeover can make it a proper steering-wheel chomper

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

I do know that the Hokey-Pokey is what it's really all about.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

But what if the Hokey-Pokey isn't what it's all about after all? What then? [Frown]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

The steps to the Hokey Pokey (or Hokey Cokey) are well defined. If the Hokey Cokey (or Hokey Pokey) isn't what it's all about, alternative steps will be needed.

You can read that last statement as menacingly as you wish.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

More heart-sinking words:

The phone rings at 5 pm, I answer, and someone says, "Oh, you're there! I'm so glad I caught you before you left! I was afraid you'd be gone!" Because someone who starts off like that is likely to keep going for while along those lines instead of just getting to the point so that I can be gone.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

"Held" - on the London Transport indicator boards - instead of an expected arrival time of the next train. I guess it's marginally better than 30 minutes flicking forward to 25 minutes and going back to 30 minutes again. At least it's not holding out any false hope.

Ditto "severe delays" and "person under train" - although the latter comes with other feelings in addition to the heart-sink.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

"Person under train" here is more euphemistically described as a "serious passenger accident".

Back on business speak, here’s one that truly chills the blood: my workplace marketing has signed up to a kind of professional directory which contains contact details of executives at a variety of companies.

They are described as “deciders”. <Shiver>

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
"Held" - on the London Transport indicator boards . . . Ditto "severe delays" and "person under train".

The New York City subway employs similar euphemisms, as I recall. Something like "Normal service has now been restored after an earlier event." Well, there are events and there are events: victory parades vs. person under train.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:

Back on business speak, here’s one that truly chills the blood: my workplace marketing has signed up to a kind of professional directory which contains contact details of executives at a variety of companies.

They are described as “deciders”. <Shiver>

Heart-sinking is one thing. In so many organisations that is simply inaccurate.

Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :

This is for all my fellow Evangelicals, particularly in the USA where the video is from, and for those who find Evangelical catch words cringe worthy:
Shoot Christians Say

Major tangent but can't sleep after this experience today. The train examples hit too close to home. I was walking to my friends' house next to train tracks today and saw a man climb up onto the tracks. I went over and saw he was next to the tracks smoking and asked if he was ok. He acted like I was weird for asking and I actually told him I thought he was on the tracks and that I hoped he wasn't planning on standing in front of a train. I kind of said this light heartedly in case he got angry or upset. He didn't really answer properly, but I got the impression he wasn't planning on ending it all. He may have been trying to look into the weird, large garden of the creepy clairvoyant's place across the road. The place has gargoyles on the fence so it stands out.

But after I left I freaked out and didn't know whether to call the police or not. I went to my friends' place nearby and the husband checked on the man or rang the police and came back and told me someone else had already called them. But in future I'm just calling right away because I would not be able to live with myself if someone I had seen near tracks did throw themselves in front of a train.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Back on business speak, here’s one that truly chills the blood: my workplace marketing has signed up to a kind of professional directory which contains contact details of executives at a variety of companies.

They are described as “deciders”. <Shiver>

I think it all started here.
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

More of a heart-sinking sound, but at the moment we are suffering from the >DING!< of doom, when the dog rings his bloody bell at 03:00, 03:30, 04:00, 05:00 etc.

I can't confiscate it, because he's a bit poorly so may actually need to go out, but normally he just wants company. Little sod.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

Good on you, Mili. [Frown]

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

"Reach(ed) out to..." instead of contacted, called, or any other word or phrase. I've heard it most on the news ("We reached out to Mr. Smith, but he refused to comment.")

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

Oh, I just remembered the other one.

"Team ..." as a team name, instead of just a team name.

I first noticed it coming from the Twilight crowd -- "Team Jacob!" "No, Team Edward!" -- but now I see it all over the place.

It's painful.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I think it all started here.

And then there's the allegedly reputable news organizations that feel the need to have "explainers"...

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

"We're delivering better services ..." - unless it's the Post Office, the Maternity Unit or Exorcism (a strange combination indeed), "deliver" is just the wrong verb to use.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

What about the dreaded 'Delivering [insert field of activity] solutions'?

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Fine if they come in bottles, not otherwise!

We have a door and window company round here with claims to offer "Aperture Solutions".

[ 05. December 2014, 12:56: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

That's so preposterous as to be almost acceptable!

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0