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Originally posted by Esmeralda:
He has Asperger's too so when he blows up it can be a really serious meltdown. All he does if you leave him alone is play on the computer all day.

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My guess is that the computer playing relaxes him - or, at least, doesn't stress him - while any thought of the school work pushes his stress levels way up.

It's been a long time since I was that age, but that is how I would feel in his situation. Not sure what to do - I am still learning how to manage my own emotions and stress levels ... but maybe learning relaxation???

Also, if he has any "executive function" issues, it may be extra difficult getting his brain into gear each day, so he plays games as something simpler and easier to handle. If so, he may need help planning - it can all look too overwhelming to start work. Helping him to break down down the work to bite-sized chunks that don't look so daunting may help.

These are wild guesses - each person with AS is different.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
I wonder if he would be interested in discovering why revision is important and what effect if might have.

You could for instance set him a piece of work then ask him a set of questions immediately, wait 24 hours and ask him the same questions and finally ask him a week later. In between you keep the answers. When he has completed the questions a week later then show him the three sets of answers.

Next allow him to do the same with another piece of work but this time he goes through the work again before answering the questions. Again allow him to see his three responses, and then allow him to compare with what his previous go.

He should find that whereas the first set of responses deteriorate the second set improve.

The difference is that he has learnt this for himself.

Jengie
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
Same problem, minus the aspergers and plus a healthy dose of ADHD. It's a teenager thing. Deep breaths.

I agree that the video games are probably calming. You shut down all but the here-and-now brain response and you can avoid reality. Problem is that reality won't wait. And as parents it's our suckyass job to help them figure this out before reality kicks their asses.

I occasionally take and hide the power cord for the (triple cursed) game console.* i have also hidden the laptop under the mountain of clean laundry he had to fold. Only worked once, now he checks, but it worked great!

In short, I dont have a solution for you. Remind yourself that you're being a horrible bitch of a mother For His Own Good™ and try and discuss it when he's not flipping out. When he's throwing a tantrum it's pointless. But talk, just talk, when you both are even tempered. No judgement talk, stick to the "i want to raise you right, i need your help..." kind of language.

I also try to remind my son that if he doesnt get some good ol' book larnin' he'll not be able to afford to move out and he'll be stuck with me FOREVER! Mwahaha!

I have been known to go to the switchbox and cut the power to his room. Just saying.

What are his motivations? Because little comments like "girls stay away from boys who are ignorant and lazy and cant take care of themselves..." help in my case. The only thing The Boy digs more than denial-through-gaming is girls.

* i want it on the record, your honor, thst i banned the damned thibgs from my house. Which is why their pond axum sucking reprobate of a father bought them one.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
Effing edit window. Excuse all typos.

Another thing that works- my elder son takes his job as role model to the younger son seriously when reminded of it. If you have younger kids, neices and nephews, etc you can try that tactic.

And remember that with kids no tactic will work forever and be the ultimate solution. You will always have to keep changing up. Accept it. Took me years to get over feeling like a failure because none of my "solutions" lasted.
 

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Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
We survived our son's teen years (He turns 30 today) and he never gave us a moments trouble.

Selective memory is a wonderful thing.
 

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Posted by Think² (# 1984) on :
 
When I did AS levels, I revised by just reading the Letts revision guides (rather than going back over my previous work) - this was less boring than reading stuff I had already written, and quicker. And because you buy them by syllabus you know you are covering the right stuff.

Owing to a stuff-up at my FE college - they had left out part of the syllabus I needed, and in the exam I answered a question on it solely on the basis of the Letts guide. I got a decent result.

I may also be worth mentioning I revised for less than a week, for all my GCSEs and 6th form exams. Some people do well with extended periods of revision - my sister did - but it doesn't suit everyone. It may be that your son is better able to do a short burst than weeks and weeks.

Some letts stuff is also doable by computer which may be helpful.

(Life outcome, I have a doctorate and a professional job YMMV.)
 

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Posted by Little Miss Methodist (# 1000) on :
 
I suspect that I was the teenager who couldn't be nagged into doing revision. I used to tell my parents that "if I stop getting good grades you can nag me, but whilst i'm getting straight A's, is it really an issue?". It wasn't and they left me to it. I always did my revision eventually, and that is still my pattern of working 15 years on.

It works differently with everyone, but it's possible that your teenager needs to be left to his own devices. These are his first exams at college, he'll have the chance to retake i'd imagine, and finding out for himself that "no work = crap results" is probably a good lesson to learn no matter how hard it might be for those who need to step back and watch him learn it!

The thing my mother used to find most disappointing about trying to get my sister to do her revision was that you couldn't do the revision for her. No matter how long my mother sat with her helping her to revise or helping with homework, my sister only took in exactly as much as she chose to. My mother would learn all about geography, but my sister would have been thinking about some tv program the entire time. There has to be motivation on the part of the student, otherwise time spent "revising" is time spent daydreaming with your work in front of you. Perhaps your son will get down to it in his own time when he is motivated enough to do so?
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
I agree with Little Miss Methodist about motivation. Having a specific goal that means something to the teen, and the motivation to get to that goal has made a difference in my two young-uns.

Not that I was able to motivate them. (Unless you count taking away privileges, or offering special treat and outings as motivation.)

Daughter-Unit (who has multiple learning disabilities) went to college right out of high school. She hated it. She had a 1.5 GPA at the end of one semester, and dropped out. Now, she has a goal, a specific job she wants to obtain. She's back in college, and even with the 1.5 from five years ago, her GPA is now almost 3.1.

I guess self-motivation is one key.

Good luck, Esmeralda!
 

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Posted by morningstar (# 15860) on :
 
Chunking, time-tabling and structuring.
And most of what Comet sez as it will help you keep some sort of perspective.

Does he know how to check a fuse? If not, don't tell him ... yet; just remove the damned thing from the plug (even if you have to replace a moulded one first)!
 

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Posted by Jenn. (# 5239) on :
 
I seriously hated revision. When a friend came over to revise for my a-levels we made a drinking game out of it - and I hardly drank alcohol!

I discovered that I can only revise for about 10 minutes without giving up, so I made flash cards and at uni I revised for 10 mins between lectures, or while waiting for something, or between tv programs. It took me until uni to work out a way I could revise though. I hate going over stuff I've already done, so revision guides and past papers worked best as they were at least new. I am the sort of person who left exams early on the grounds that I had done the paper, and checking was pointless because I never spotted mistakes - if I had done a question my brain wouldn't admit that I could have done it wrong. The only point to going over a paper was to do things I had missed, but that was because I didn't know the answer and was also pointless. Hence finishing 3 hour exams in less than 2 hours during my degree.
 

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Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :
 
My elder son thought that one day a week in the swot vac revision time was working hard for the exams. He did not do very well.
At 24 he decided to take up an associate degree and got two distinctions this year. Now he knows what he wants to do he wants to and does study hard.
 

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Posted by Silver Faux (# 8783) on :
 
My youngest son was pretty much born with a cigar in his mouth and a beer in his hand, searching through any and all rule books to find any rules he had missed breaking and therefore had not checked off his list.
When he turned 11, he began to act like a teenager, and everything I recall after that is a dark, hollow space for the next few years.
Nothing, not a single word that either my wife or I spoke to him could make him pay attention to graduating high school.
He was interested in girls, video games, buddies, and experimentation with the nasty side.

Eventually, one day, in his second-last year of high school, he decided he wanted to become a chef.
He worked in a restaurant, worked really quite hard in shcool and raised his marks, graduated high school, then chef college, and now has his "dream job" on the other side of the continent.

I like to tell myself, now that he is no longer close by, that if I had it all to do over again, I would simply try to enjoy him, trust that he would one day find his way, and be easier on him and the whole family, including me.
But that's me fibbing to myself; if I had it to do over again, I would probably respond as asshole to asshole all over again.
Sorry, that's not very helpful, but it is the best I have!
Other than my prayers for you and your son.

 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Esmeralda, what does your son want to do? Does he know where he is going next and what the current entry requirements are? It's changing fast with tuition fee changes and universities reducing the numbers of students they are taking.

If the system works the way it did when my daughter went through it, he can resit AS level exams, so if he fails these ones or doesn't get the grades he needs there's a process for refusing those grades and resitting in June - but that might well give him 11 exams in June, not 6. There's also a limit to the number of times you can resit - and schools and colleges often don't allow people to go to the next year unless they've got a reasonable pass rate.

But those resits will show, and depending on whether he wants to do, that might make the difference between being accepted by a university or a training scheme or not, in the current climate.

My daughter is now in her 4th year of an MEng and I'm incredibly grateful that we managed to get her through now timed to avoid the worst of this one (and avoid the worst of what happened to her sixth form college). My colleague's son didn't get his grades to go to university this September - in fact only one student from his (private) sixth form did, and he is currently on a year out and applying with the grades he's got, but no-one is sure how university education is going to pan out in the next few years.

The incentive for your son may well be in what he needs to go where he wants to go and realising how tough it now is. But be careful, because that might be another reason he's switched off, he may have seen no-one get to university from his sixth form this summer and think there's no point.
 

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Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
I don't think there's much you can do. If you have a reasonable home life and there is plenty of opportunity to revise, it's really up to the child to actually do it. We have tried all manner of things with our two. The older one was very successful academically and got into a very competitive degree course - only to crash out at the end of last academic year as he had changed his mind about his life plans. I'm just backing off there and letting him decide how to proceed - you can't control someone's life at 20, however stupid you think they're being!

The 17 year old is studying for A levels. He didn't do that well in his AS levels, and that's because he simply won't study to the depth and detail required. Nagging just stresses both of us out without adding an iota to what he is learning.

I agree with those who say it's all about motivation. If they really want to do it, they will. BC was really motivated to get onto his degree course, but when he stopped wanting to do it, it all fell apart. I can only hope he finds his true metier soon! As for SC, he doesn't have a clue what he wants, so motivation is very hard to find. I shall just have to keep praying!
 

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Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
Just to add - I'm a university lecturer at a new university. We are already oversubscribed for next year, and have raised our points considerably. The competition is incredible - which is nice for me as a lecturer (better, more motivated students) but very sad as a mother (dodgy AS results for SC may now be fatal to his chances!).

It's a very hard world out there at the moment. I do not envy the young.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
I don't really understand your system over there at all so this may be off the mark. This conversation just has got me thinking.

My mother did everything right. Two bachelors degrees and a masters, taught at university before chucking it all to join the peace corps once I was out of the house. She then went on to work in many overseas countries as an education consultant, only to move home where she now runs a nonprofit that focuses on teaching about the environment. Many careers; great adventures.

My dad dropped out of high school to be a rodeo rider. Worked with pack mules, worked with the mustangs, became a dog musher, a career journalist and now author and columnist. Many careers; great adventures.

I dropped out of high school and went to college at age 16. was a model and a dancer for a short time; then a plant pathologist. Then a hunting guide; then a journalist. Now I tend a bar and use my spare time to act and sing. Next summer I'm finally getting paid to act. And I volunteer for a few nonprofits using my skills to help causes I'm passionate about. Many careers; great adventures.

My daughter went to college and is about to go back after taking a year to try out domesticity. My littlest is likely a college bound one also. My teenage son- I dont know. He has a good brain. He's curious and self-motivated but I dont really see him thriving in academia. I see him more backpacking through India or fixing bicycles in Spain or even kayaking Palau. He's unlikely to settle down and stagnate, and I suspect he'll be a lifelong learner and adventurer. Like me, like my family.

Some kids do well in the education system we have set up for them. Some don't. If they don't pass the necessary tests, if they wash out of college- that's not the end of the world. It may even be the beginning. What do you really want for your children? Academic success? Financial success? Working 9-5 and paying a mortgage in the burbs?

I want my kids to have adventures. I want them to collect stories. I want them to have moments that make them exilerated. Some are lit up by education, but others are not.

I guess- don't despair if your child bucks the trends. There is so much more to life than doing it right. if you teach them to value living, to put their face to the gale and laugh- they're going to do okay.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I was wondering if computers means so much to him if there was a way his work could be adapted to be done on the computer?

Do you think he might be able to forge a career in computing? Our elder son used to find computers a way of relaxing (ultimately to the exclusion of all other hobbies) and has now also made a career out of it, via a computer science degree.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
I'm with comet on this. I was a boring nine-to-fiver (actually a 7-330er, but who cares?) for half of my working life. Then I started adventuring in the mid-eighties. By the mid-nineties I was all over the place, while still remaining a slog at work (I had to pay for the stuff somehow)

Now I'm retired, and still all over the place. I picked up a flyer and had a discussion about going up in a balloon next summer. That was yesterday. Now that my next excursion is planned, I am starting to think of 2012.

I wish that I had had enough confidence now to deal with alternate jobs or many careers. But I had other issues to deal with and many battles to fight. I still do, but I deal with them on the side now, because no-one can take my pension away.
 

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Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
Actually, I'm really in agreement with Comet and PeteC. It's one of the reasons I'm not on BC's back to get himself straightened out. If he wants to grow his hair long, drop out and live simply, I should be glad about that - I didn't bring him up to be a conformist anyway. It's just that I do worry. What if he's thrown away a winning ticket in life's lottery? What if he never finds out what fulfills him? I know - I should have more faith!
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
You give a kid the best training you can. What he does with it when he is an adult is up to him. What seems like a disaster to you might be a source of great comfort to him. Kids have to be flexible job-wise these days. I don't think I would be able to cope with it, and am very glad I am firmly on the retirement career track.
 

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Posted by multipara (# 2918) on :
 
Get over it. It's his life, not yours.

You are not in duty bound to bankroll him/her past the age of majority.

As regards majority, the vast majority turn out OK. Remember your kid is made in God's likeness , not yours.

m (been there done that with vile teenagers-and survived)
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
Now that my youngest, though still a teen and still in college, is 18 years old, I have actually had the cynical thought that at least now I'm not responsible for him. Not more than love/family/compassion/Christian reasons make me responsible for him, of course -- but it's no longer for me to train him.

All of my kids are brilliant people -- beautiful in a scary way, likely to take over the world as soon as they get around to it -- but they haven't been on the typical/standard track in life...

Well, I was gonna say they'd all branched out doing things their own way as they entered young adulthood, but that's not completely true. They've been out-of-the-box off-the-wall people all their young lives.

Is it maybe a different thing, when your child has been one who benefited greatly from a traditionally structured, regular, supportively-framed upbringing, as far as education and discipline, etc.?

Am I "seeing" correctly, that a successful education/childhood for a kid with AS, or ADD/ADHD, learning difficulties, etc., would automatically include regularity and structure and consistency in all things? Or is that too cookie-cutter a way to look at it?

Looking back over my children's childhood years, bless their hearts, the only wide-open constants in their lives were their parents' continually less-than-perfect parenting. Well, that and love. But you know what I mean.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
There is a poem by Anne Ridler about a parent's expectations during pregnancy and when the child is a newborn. It ends with the lines

May she grow to her right powers
Unperturbed by passion of ours

We don't know what our children have the ability to become.

Moo
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Our youngest is now 14 (school year 10) so he gets time off for revision but at the moment he doesn't revise much, or spend much time on assignment/homework.

Mrs Sioni and I find it hard to criticise as we were pretty idle at that age, so we rely on his siblings (especially eldest, who is a trained secondary school teacher with a job as of today!) to 'mention' things. Words from siblings & role models have had more effect on our very mixed gang of five, although I realise that anyone with Asperger's could have relational issues too.
 

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Posted by Carex (# 9643) on :
 
I jumped straight from being childless to having teenagers, and had to develop a strategy quickly. I realized that the role of a parent was to ensure that their children survived the process of growing up: too little attention and they might not survive, too much attention and they never complete the process. It seems to have worked - perhaps not as well as I might have liked, but as well as I might expect given the other influences in their lives.

But I was also the oddball, taking a year off in the middle of Uni because I wasn't motivated, and coming back wanting to learn everything there was to know. Quitting a well-paying job in my profession to spend a couple years having adventures in other parts of the world. Even sitting at my desk now I believe that has made a significant contribution to my being a trusted and capable employee, though I can't say exactly how. Perhaps because once you have braved the rain, snow, heat, loneliness, physical challenges and personal demons and overcome them, how much more difficult can it be to resolve an accounting problem or develop a new procedure?

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Comet wrote:
...put their face to the gale and laugh...

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Bright maths students are nearly always lazy even when they don't appear to be. Yes I as a teenager pulled the wool over a huge number of people's eyes. Yes I got the work in on time and it was nearly always over 80%, that did not mean I was working hard. It also means that when you hit an understanding wall your marks plummet and you don't have the skills to do the things you need to do.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Moo:
There is a poem by Anne Ridler about a parent's expectations during pregnancy and when the child is a newborn. It ends with the lines

May she grow to her right powers
Unperturbed by passion of ours

We don't know what our children have the ability to become.

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Originally posted by Chorister:
There's a lot to be said for spending the first ten years of a child's life bringing them up and the next ten enabling them to become independent. People in Britain, at least, have regularly been good at the first part, but have increasingly neglected the second.

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Originally posted by Chorister:
...Why does it all have to be such a race?

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Originally posted by Chorister:
Perhaps a slower start to study post-GCSE, combined with the opportunity to do voluntary service or outdoor pursuits would be a kinder way of pacing our young people? Why does it all have to be such a race?

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Originally posted by Chorister:
I've heard of quite a few youngsters who get burnout during AS year and need to take time out. I never remember that happening a generation ago (although many never actually made it as far as the 6th form). Some of the cause surely must be the relentless pressure to succeed - with regular exams plus coursework - from year 10 onwards, if not before. The traditional first term of 6th form being a chance to ease oneself into a new way of working towards A levels just doesn't happen now, as the first exams are immediately after Christmas.

Perhaps a slower start to study post-GCSE, combined with the opportunity to do voluntary service or outdoor pursuits would be a kinder way of pacing our young people? Why does it all have to be such a race?

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Originally posted by JoannaP:
When did the concept of the "AS year" come in? It is not something I did 20 years ago; my whole Lower 6th was about learning to work more independently and to construct arguments rather than regurgitate facts. It was probably the most enjoyable year of all my time at school - certainly secondary school.

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Originally posted by Pottage:
I got respectable GCSEs without ever learning how to revise or picking up any exam technique, and I too suffered a setback at the beginning of sixth form. I suddenly found that I couldn't just get by with flicking through the textbook the night before a test to remind myself, and I didn't know any other way of doing things. I did get to grips with the different style of work required for A level after a while, but I remember it being difficult. Unhappily though I never did learn how to revise, nor acquire any exam technique, so I didn't get terribly good A levels, and had similar problems at university and later at law college (coursework fine, but scraped through exams).

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• I am physically a slow writer and write very much slower than I think.
• I have some sort of written language difficulty, today I would probably be tested at school, even back then (early 1980s) at least one teacher thought it should really be investigated
• I have anxiety related problems, these exacerbate the second difficulty .

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Idle curiosity; does anyone have a teenager who's done YASS? (Young Applicants in Schools Scheme) i.e. the school leaves free periods in their timetable and the pupil does an Open University module. The school provides nothing but a desk in the library and free periods; the onus is entirely on the pupil to sort themselves out with the Open University, choosing, applying, submitting TMAs etc.

It sounds win-win; several periods a week which are effortless for the school (no teacher contact required) and a good transition for the pupil to the self-discipline of Uni. Anyone got practical experience?

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Originally posted by Taliesin:
Please answer with clear and unabiguous advice, so I can at least blame someone else for once when it all continues to go wrong.

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Originally posted by Taliesin:
When is help helping and when is it disempowering?

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That's a really good question. If you find the answer, bottle it and sell it. You'll make a fortune!

Here's my clear and unambiguous advice. I'd hate for you not to have anyone to share the blame with.

Seriously, though, by the age of 20, most of the adolescent moodiness should have past. If it continues to be persistent and severe, you might consider recommending (or requiring) a mental health evaluation.

Setting limits on behavior is important with adult children as with little ones, so any time is a fine time to say, 'for goodness' sake, go and be miserable and negative somewhere else.'

As for what you should pay for with the car, for adult children living at home, we've found it helpful to make clear what we will or won't pay for, then sticking with that consistently. What's reasonable to pay for depends on your child's needs, your financial situation, and what's common or expected among your social group. But don't do something like insuring a car just to make an unhappy person happy. It won't work, and you'll all just be frustrated.

There. Now whatever you do, you can tell your daughter that it's the fault of some anonymous person on the Internet whom you've never met. Good luck!
 

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Posted by birdsoftheair (# 15219) on :
 
This sounds very familiar to me with a 16 year old with known MH issues but makes me wonder how much it is real distress and how much it is just plain selfishness.

However I came across this condition
PDA which is part of ASD and actually begins to make sense of some of her behaviour from 2 years onwards.

But and this is a big but, at which point do we as parents say get on with it and at which point do we see the assorted moodiness, tantrums and lightening mood changes as more than attention seeking?

Much as I love her I also breathe a sigh of relief when she has a few days away and so does she. We don't row but only because we tiptoe round her current mood and associated needs for that time.

This turning into a rant and I don't mean it to because she can be an utter delight. All my friends think she is enchanting!

Any suggestions gratefully received and Taliesin's
plea is one that I share too!
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Parenting a teenager has been a trial (balanced with a blessing - it's nice having a young man around when he's making the effort to be "human") just lately and looks like being an enduring challenge for a while yet.

Here's a question, though. He moves from Scouts to Explorers at the end of the month, but is going camping one last time with his scout troop in the summer.

I have had an email from the scout leader - something they are planning for camp is for the older ones (The Smudgelet is the oldest at 14) to do an unaccompanied hike overnight to a campsite 11 miles away where they will set up camp and sleep out before being picked up the following morning. They're intending to be in groups of threes/fours/fives and the ideal route apparently takes them partly along roads, partly across country. The scout leader will apparently visit the other campsite during the night to make sure they got there safely and managed to set up camp.

Am I being an overprotective mother when I say I don't feel altogether comfortable with this? Should I agree to him doing it? Is it part of the letting-go process or is it a bit too much too soon. Bearing in mind that he's the eldest, would the loss of face in front of his peers be damaging or how could I handle saying no in a way which prevented this?

(I would be perfectly happy if he were with a scout leader doing a night hike, or if it were during the day with regular check points to make sure they weren't too lost, or even if he were doing it as the youngest of a group of explorers)

To add into the mix, he's been running away when he's got overwrought just lately and it's not a reassuring thought to think he might feel more confident being out in the middle of the night on his own if he's done it before with the Scouts. I'd really rather he feel vulnerable and realise he'd rather be safe at home with the mother from Hell.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
My daughter (just turned 15) was part of a group of Guides camping for two nights under the leadership of another 15 year old as part of her Patrol Camp Permit. They were in a field adjacent to a farmhouse belonging to a Guider, so had access to an adult if necessary. My daughter's also done a hike/camp/hike as one of a group of four girls all recently turned or about to turn 15 as part of her bronze Duke of Edinburgh with (as I understand it) fairly minimal adult supervision. The latter was in an area with patchy/ non-existent mobile phone reception

I did have some qualms about both, but I think I'd have had more qualms about an 11 mile overnight hike with a 14 year old as the oldest. How old will the others be? If he's the oldest will he have a leadership role?

My 17 year old is just back from a school expedition - 3 weeks in Borneo, with 19 pupils (aged between 16 and 18) 2 expedition leaders and two teachers (two very young looking teachers!), so there's a rapid change in what is regarded as feasible in the years between 14 and 16/7, and lots and lots (and lots!) of maternal qualms (not to mention sleepless nights!) along the way.

I think the big question is - does he want to do it? If he does, and there are others younger getting parental permission, I think it would be difficult to say no.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
Old Scouter Mode On

Yeah, you're being overprotective. That's OK, you're Mum. But when he's home he doesn't feel that empowered. When he's with his peer group, he might feel responsible. And I don't think he'd run away if the Scouter gave him some responsibility in his group.

I think he'll come through with flying colours. Bug bitten, and sunburned maybe, but with flying colours

Old Scouter Mode Off

For the record, I'm old enough to be his grandfather, and I feel like running away when I'm overwrought. But I have the option of no-one dragging me out from under my duvet.


 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
(The running away fear is about him gaining the confidence to do it more effectively than he currently does)
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
I wouldn't be comfortable either, Smudgie. 11 miles at night seems excessive. However, I do see scouts being well organised - we once discovered a woman hiding in a barn on the downs, and when we asked her if she was ok she siad, 'yes, I watching out for a group of scouts to check they're ok, but I don't want them to see me.'

My sons are going on their camp week after next, and the blindfolded hike is the bit that scares me - daytime, and fine for my older boy, but the younger one is 11 and diabetic.

I'm not comfortable. They are going, though.

Thanks for replies above. Glad to have the input.
 

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Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
Mr Ferijen, the resident Scout leader, says that this (probably the Expedition Challenge) tends to teach Scouts how to walk a long way with stuff on their backs. Which I can't imagine is very reassuring for you:(

However, Scout leaders would much rather hear your concerns, and adaptations can be made for some badges.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferijen:
Mr Ferijen, the resident Scout leader, says that this (probably the Expedition Challenge) tends to teach Scouts how to walk a long way with stuff on their backs. Which I can't imagine is very reassuring for you:(

---

This used to be good preparation for University.
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Slightly reassured - the scout leader assures me that the actual hiking part of the enterprise is during the daylight hours, and the boy assures me that it is not all the scouts who are taking part, it's just the older ones.

He was really keen to take part and I have every confidence he'll be fine. When I told him my reservations (i.e. that the group might argue and fall out and that it only takes one idiot in a group of three to cause quite considerable difficulties) and when he considered the specific named people that he'd be hiking with, he expressed his own reservations!!! I actually feel far happier knowing that he has looked at it a bit more objectively too.

It was really the nighttime thing that was bugging me.
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
I'm really glad he's not hiking through the night, or with younger children. That sounds much more reasonable.

I'm wondering, if anyone can point me at websites about spine alignment. Google ain't doing it by itself. My daughter has a misalignment - as a child her upper jaw needed to be pushed to one side with a spring, and when her weight was so low I could see clearly that her spine kinks, top and bottom. She was a very tall baby... I'm wondering if there is any correlation at all between something being 'off' structurally and some kind a brain function.

Clutching at straws, I grant you, but I remember reading an article years ago that is ringing bells. Just wondering if anyone has/knows of a theory...

I could just 'take her to a chiropractor' or 'take her to an osteopath' but these people tend to give it a go whatever - they don't send you to someone else. So I'd like to pick the most likely, first. Or have a clue. Or something.
 

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Posted by birdsoftheair (# 15219) on :
 
Hi Taliesin

I found this site

It is a chiropractic site and may be off the wall but it seems to suggest that neuro problems can be caused by spinal misalignment affecting the brain. I could not possibly comment on this and I always treat such sites with a healthy dose of sceptism but sometimes they mention a certain condition that allows you to do further research.

Just a thought......

birds
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
Thank you.

Yes, I know I can't believe everything uploaded, it just feels quite plausible. We'll start with a GP and osteopath appointment and move on from there.
 

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Posted by birdsoftheair (# 15219) on :
 
Good idea, and I will learn to spell skepticism!

Birds
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
you spelt (spelled) scepticism right for English English, skepticism is American English
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I'm bumping this thread as I think it has some longer term use and I don't want it swept away if we prune All Saints sometime.
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
For you have the teenagers with you always, and whenever you will you may do them good...
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
one of my Most perplexing teenagers .....is visiting with his partner and daughter....


job well done :he's doin' well/ they're doin' well

hope this is an encouragement to those currently going through it with their teenagers
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Its funny, but on the good days, its like the whole of their life has been great.

On the bad days (sometimes mentioned on the prayer thread) its like there has only been one day and it has been hellish.


I had the privilege of God showing us a bad example of parenting when a parent said to us, when little Oglet was a baby, in front of her teenage kids no less, that when they were babies was the best time as a parent.

We have strove since then to make each day the best time for her to be a a child and show her that each day is the best time to be a parent

There are times when its painful but, for right now at least, a well adjusted teenager is a wonder to behold.

Tomorrow she'll probably complain about having to do homework and about something else but...oh well...she's a teenager...got to let her live.
 

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Posted by birdsoftheair (# 15219) on :
 
How do you decide the right level of support for an over anxious teenager who resorts to SH when distressed?

She wants to live in the school hostel (a boarding home as the school is on another island)
but is not managing to attend school properly as she is so distressed by subjects being taught ie assisted suicide. We cant protect her from everything like this and think she should take a year out at home to sort herself out. She is also a drama queen so it's hard to tell if it is genuine. She cant cope away from us but doesn't want to stay here.

We are worn out by the nights of texts and phonecalls when away as she is so upset and it is made worse by the fact we cant get to her. It feels like emotional manipulation. We did not answer 1 text during school time and got accused of total abandonment, although she did laugh about that later. I spent 3 days with her last week staying with a friend to get her settled but cant leave Mr B or Aged Parent for that long every week.

Sorry to go on but very close to losing it with her.


Any ideas folks?
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Lots of sympathy, no answers. How much of the timetable is she struggling with? IIRC assisted suicide is part of the Int 1 RMPS course? Could she simply drop this, or are there other subjects she struggles with?

Is her guidance teacher supportive?
 

---

Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Lots of sympathy, no answers.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by birdsoftheair:
How do you decide the right level of support for an over anxious teenager who resorts to SH when distressed?

---

How old is she? If it were me, and she were 13 or 14, I'd bring her home and get things sorted out. If she's 17 or 18, I think I'd set some boundaries. If she lives at the school, she's on her own. That means she can only call/write/text during normal hours, and only so many times per day/week/whatever.

Is there a mental health professional working with her, who can help her learn healthier ways of coping with distress?
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
Can she withdraw from the lessons on assisted suicide? This sounds as if it must be very stressful for her.

Moo
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
Much empathy from me, too, but no advice

How long is it thought that these lessons might go on for? I did some teaching on the subject once and was stunned when I got feedback that someone found it upsetting, but it was too late to tone it down because we'd already finished. Most topics are pretty short. At least it is regarding the topic - which is finite, and can be walked away from - rather than social dynamics, which are ongoing and all-pervasive.

I agree with Josephine - a lot depends on how old she is.
 

---

Posted by Persephone Hazard (# 4648) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by birdsoftheair:
She is also a drama queen so it's hard to tell if it is genuine.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by birdsoftheair:
How do you decide the right level of support for an over anxious teenager who resorts to SH when distressed?

She wants to live in the school hostel (a boarding home as the school is on another island)
but is not managing to attend school properly as she is so distressed by subjects being taught ie assisted suicide. We cant protect her from everything like this and think she should take a year out at home to sort herself out. She is also a drama queen so it's hard to tell if it is genuine. She cant cope away from us but doesn't want to stay here.

We are worn out by the nights of texts and phonecalls when away as she is so upset and it is made worse by the fact we cant get to her. It feels like emotional manipulation. We did not answer 1 text during school time and got accused of total abandonment, although she did laugh about that later. I spent 3 days with her last week staying with a friend to get her settled but cant leave Mr B or Aged Parent for that long every week.

Sorry to go on but very close to losing it with her.


Any ideas folks?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PeteC:
Don't let his size intimidate you. Remember, you're the one who cleaned him up for the first five or so years of his life. My eldest nephew, now 46 and a grandfather himself, and easily larger than his mother would still do stuff, muttering away, because his mother could (and probably still could) push all the right buttons. Hang in there. Be firm. And push that button.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by comet:
...We talk, and he agrees, and then he just does his thing anyway. it's after tons of this that it escalates.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by comet:
here's the problem - he doesn't give a crap about school. he has great "someday" dreams, but he can't connect that he needs to slog through high school to be able to follow those dreams. the kid is SMART, but failed his graduation qualifying exams. he admits that he was bored so he just wrote whatever in the test so he could read his book.

---

quote:

---

He has great "someday" dreams, but he can't connect that he needs to slog through high school to be able to follow those dreams.

---

quote:

---

My oldest didn't graduate from high school because he wouldn't do the mickey mouse assignments. I couldn't make him. He didn't smoke or drink or do drugs. He didn't even have a girlfriend. He's brilliant. He worked hard on the things he wanted to work hard on. His grades tended to be either As or Fs.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by birdsoftheair:
She has been offered a lot of professional care and often won't use it because she dislikes talking about her problems.

...

I guess I used the drama queen term a bit rashly because we know these feelings are real but she does play on them a wee bit too.

---

These two bits in your reply stood out for me - from what you've said, she is talking about her problems, but to you and not a professional. Would it help for you to talk to a professional councillor about how to help her? Just a thought - and lots of sympathy...
 

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Posted by harmony hope (# 4070) on :
 
I just wanted to send my support for everyone here trying to find a good way through teenage-dom... I have 2 daughters aged 14 and 11 and both have/are presenting their own (very different!) issues and I think that teenagers are some of the most wonderful and simultaneously frustrating human beings alive!

Mind you if you asked my daughters they'd probably say that about me too!

You are all in my prayers and please hold me in your's!

Harmony
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
you got it, Harmony. Us parents have to stick together. if only to remind eachother that we're not completely insane yet.

#2 is currently giving me the cold shoulder for picking him up "too early" from The Girl's house. she lives in the neighboring town. He's lucky he gets to go see her at all. anyway - that's par for the course.

Wanted to let you all know we had a pretty good talk the other night. He admitted that he fell into old habits and realized how hard it can be to change those. I thought it was pretty wise of him to come to that conclusion. We talked about ways he can try to fix it - like, if he catches himself in a lie, rather that defend it, own it. I told him the world respects those people who can admit mistakes and own their failures as well as successes. I suspect we're still in for a long haul here but I feel hopeful knowing he really does want to try and fix this; that he's struggling with the process rather than just brushing it off.

as a side note, in the "funny things teenagers say" category: when we were arguing about his pick-up time, I told him if he makes it a big fight he won't get to go visit again next time. his text response, "Fine. I see how it is. You're just going to crush me again."



that's me. Crushing innocent children since July, 1989.

(hey, it's a natural talent!)
 

---

Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by birdsoftheair:
Thank you to all who have replied.
just to clarify she is 16 and refuses to take a year out which shows me she has some determination. She has been offered a lot of professional care and often won't use it because she dislikes talking about her problems. She has a great guidance teacher and staff at the hostel who are on duty all night.

---

She does sound like she's struggling although I also suspect your comment about emotional manipulation bears some truth too - I doubt that it's conscious or purposeful on her part, it sounds like she's got into a pattern of responding when she isn't coping to well which includes SH and lots of parental support. It says a lot about your relationship that she's looking to you.

As part of your setting boundaries with her as suggested above, you could suggest she contacts ChildLine - while most adults thing they're there for abused kids, actually they work with kids who are struggling for any reason. The on-line service would mean she wouldn't even need to talk to someone - there's a closed instant messaging service that would let her chat to someone on-line. They'd hold confidentiality where other professionals wouldn't, which can be helpful for dealing with self harm.
 

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Posted by TallPoppy (# 16294) on :
 
Just found this thread. I have a 17 year old son who wanted to study medicine but do as little work as possible for his AS levels. This does not compute. We had a job insisting that we would not then pay for the extra entrance exam for med school as his chemistry grade was too low (and his lack of application too clear) for this to be a realistic option. He's incredibly clever, but has lost focus since starting sixth form. We have spoken to the school and will do so again, but ultimately you can't force them to work...they have to want to do it for themselves.

We are in family therapy because of my severe recurrent depressive disorder, so we are 'lucky' to qualify for professional help. And our therapist is excellent. But it still feels like a struggle to get this lad into adulthood.

I have found the posts here very helpful. I feel that I am not alone!

TallPoppy
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
there's a few years until my youngest ceases to be a teenager...but could i add my thanks for this thread?

there've been a few times recently when i almost splurged on here, thinking that i needed help or support...
actually i discovered that i am not alone and that helped to put Everything into perspective for me.

having the odd chuckle at a teenage angst ridden statement aimed at other parents really does help



 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
... my eldest ceases to be a teenager a week on Thursday, and d'you know, I suspect the problems will not end at midnight.

I have another kid who didn't work particularly hard because she hated everything about school and got ok grades and isn't doing anything right now, and sadly, I don't even have the compensation that she's brilliant. I mean, she might be, but it's certainly not an assertion I can bandy about.

The job scene is dead, of course - it's hard to insist she finds work when there isn't any. And she absolutely won't volunteer anywhere. How long do I let that go on..?

I wish I could sum up some 'funny things they say' but I'm currently having a sense of humour failure.
 

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Posted by Think² (# 1984) on :
 
Get them to do something like this, or this, or this, or this, or this volunteer to get gig tickets thing.

Any costs they have to earn themselves, if you can afford it - match what they raise themselves. There are, currently, literally thousands of vacancies in catering and hospitality.
 

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Posted by TallPoppy (# 16294) on :
 
I have found 'getting' a teenager to do something to be impossible. Either they want to do it, or they don't. The motivation has to come from them.

Not trying to be defeatist, but I think the problem is a somewhat intractable one. I had hoped that my son would do something over the summer holidays in between A2 and AS levels, but he didn't even look for a voluntary job!

I do voluntary work and I love it...

TP
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
You could point out that they are not in education any more and that means no child benefit, no parental tax breaks, additional people charges on the council tax over and above the food and other bills, and they need to pay rent - sign on or find a bar job, but you want some income. (Not that I'm winning that one)
 

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Posted by Think² (# 1984) on :
 
I think orange rock corps is potentially quite motivating - you do get to go to gigs after all. Presumably they'd have no other income to pay for things like that at the moment.

[ 18. September 2011, 20:41: Message edited by: Think² ]
 

---

Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
You could point out that they are not in education any more and that means no child benefit, no parental tax breaks, additional people charges on the council tax over and above the food and other bills, and they need to pay rent - sign on or find a bar job, but you want some income. (Not that I'm winning that one)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
... the amount of time he has in the morning betwen getting up and catching the school bus is determined by random fate. Will he have time to have breakfast / comb his hair / remember his homework? Who knows how capricious fate might have tossed the dice which determine this?

---

That's not being ten, that's being human. Surely everyone knows that your brain works at variable speed while waking up, so there is no consistent subjective perception of the passage of time, and so can be no possible accurate planning of activities within limited time? It just doesn't work!

One morning you are sitting around bored for hours waiting for something to happen, the next you find that going to the toilet and putting your shoes on takes up all the available time and you are late! There is no way to plan for this or prevent it, you just have to work round it.

My brain doesn't usually catch up with the passage of time until about 11am or the second cup or tea, whichever is later. If I get to work unusually early - as I have to some times to do unspeakable things to computers before most of the staff and students get in - I don't usually get more work done that morning. Just being physically present in the office doesn't increase the amount of usable time you actually get to do stuff in between 7am and 11am. It varies randomly between about ten minutes and three hours.

Though some days, like today are worse. I don't think I caught up with the clock till about 5pm. Which is probably why I'm still at work.

This is of course NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with having stayed up to about 6am this morning reading online comics from the 1970s and 1980s. Though even then time is flexible because I managed to read about the same number of pages in the two hours after about 2am that I would normally read in five or ten minutes.

But being ten years old is irrelevant. Time is flexible. Especially in mornings. Even when you are over fifty.

(And as loads of people have said on the thread on evening services, going to bed earlier does NOT help in the long run. Or even the medium run. It can get you an extra morning or even two - who could ever catch a plane if it didn't - but then it wears off and you are in a worse state than before)
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
There was a typo in my post - should have said "teen" not "ten"

School is a bus-ride away; four miles so he could walk or cycle, but it's along a busy road with no footpaths or pavements, and involves passing a wee shrine where a young driver failed to take the corner about 3 or 4 years ago.

He's actually pretty good at catching the bus; my major peeve is that he often misses breakfast / leaves the house dishevelled etc. I suspect that he's less alert at school on breakfastless mornings.

Mrs Whibley - mostly what said teen wants to do at the weekend is to have a lie in.
 

---

Posted by Think² (# 1984) on :
 
Is it worth just giving him a breakfast bar and a banana to eat on the bus ?
 

---

Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
What assumes me is how I have to adjust my own stance to time depending on which child I'm talking to. Each will interpret the phrase '10 o clock' according to their own relationship with the fourth dimension, and will be, variably, still eating breakfast, upstairs applying makeup, reading a book or standing with one hand on the door handle saying, 'I'll wait in the car, shall I?'

I always thought that last one was a total boon til I saw the psychic fall-out this year.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Well, I had a blazing row with the Girl over her homework this evening. The teacher who had set the task had used the wrong value of g for the Moon's gravity. The Girl wanted to use the value as written. I told her (nay, insisted) it was an affront to Science! to use anything but the right one.

We did make up later. I have no idea if she's changed it or not.

But what do you do if you know more than the Science teacher about science? (or for that matter, the English teacher, the Geography teacher and possibly the Maths teacher too) Do you suck it up or correct them?
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
I make sure my child has the correct information. I then send a note back with the homework explaining what happened so my child isn't penalized for it. so far, so good.
 

---

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
That's... actually very sensible. I'm kind of assuming you don't start your notes "Dear Mr/Mrs Wronghead..."
 

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Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Act now, before your teenager turns 41!

Actually a word of encouragement. This too will pass just like sleeping through the night, weaning, toilet training etc. I've been through it, three sons, wild behaviour, in bed all day, hard to wake up, why listen, no study and the rest. Those going through this have my sympathies.

It was totally exasperating at the time, particularly as there is a gap of only 15 months between the oldest and second son. Now they are amazing, supportive, helpful, successful in all sorts of ways and generally really great people.

Remember, we all make choices and live with the consequences.

[ 20. September 2011, 23:52: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
 

---

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
That's... actually very sensible. I'm kind of assuming you don't start your notes "Dear Mr/Mrs Wronghead..."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
he has it in his power to GET UP ON TIME.

---

I was going to post a long rant on this, but then ken came along and did it much better than I would have done. I suspect it might be genetic.

Either way, I hope for your son's sake that he does have it in his power to get up on time. I worry sometimes that I don't and it causes a great deal of panic.

On Friday, I need to get a train at noon. It will take me 45 minutes to reach the station the train leaves from. To be absolutely safe I will be getting up at 0830. To enable me to do this I will be setting four alarms, one of which is a Teasmaid and therefore provides immediate tea. I will also quite possibly be asking an early-rising friend to ring me to check that I am awake. All this week I have been staggering my getting-up-time, working back an hour or 30 mins a morning, so that I'm all set for Friday's early rise.

I am absolutely petrified that I will sleep soundly through all the alarms and wake up at eleven with a mug of cold tea by the bed. There is precedent. I actually feel sick thinking about it.

And yes, when I was fifteen my mother had a similar rant about how stressful it was getting me out of bed in time for school in the morning (And oh! seven kinds of hell there were the time I accidentally overslept by enough to miss the start of a GCSE exam! I got an A* in that subject in the end.)

[ 21. September 2011, 21:15: Message edited by: Persephone Hazard ]
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
I always found that letting a dog into the room hastened a teenagers departure from the warm and cosy bed.

A toddler has the same effect.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
I heard of a mother who kept marbles in the freezer. When her son was extremely reluctant to get up, she would dump the marbles in his bed.

It got to the point when the mention of marbles was enough to get him up.

Moo
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
If you're not out in 2 minutes, it'll be marbles, m'boy

My mother had the same routine. She used ice cubes, and if the case were particularly stubborn, she dumped a few down the front of pyjama pants.

As for my sister? I was woken first and told to get going. As soon as I started brushing my teeth there was a pounding on the bathroom door. It got to the point where I just ran the water and waited 30 seconds.
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
hmmmm
happy days


however, the youngest is today off to view student accomodation, with a view to moving in as soon as poss. just as well as the course has already started and the commute is not all it's cracked up to be

mind you, said child hasn't been living at home for nearly two years
* so whyyyyyyyyyyy is the stuff still here?

* at what stage is stuff finally evicted from parental home?

* and should I be expecting relief that this stage has been reached ( parenting since 1980) or am i likely to start inexplicable behaviours?


off to view prospective pad......

[ 24. September 2011, 10:55: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]
 

---

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
mind you, said child hasn't been living at home for nearly two years
* so whyyyyyyyyyyy is the stuff still here?

* at what stage is stuff finally evicted from parental home?

---

When the parents move out of that home.

Moo
 

---

Posted by TallPoppy (# 16294) on :
 
When we move out, my (now) teen plans to move in and take over!!

TP
 

---

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
You speak the truth, Moo. My mother moved to an apartment 11 years after the last of us moved out. One of the last times that we siblings were all together is when she called us to take anything we had left, or it would be junked.

Mother's A1 Free Storage had closed.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I cleared the last of my junk out after Mum died, about 4 years ago. I figure clearing the house when Dad goes will be a big enough job without any extras.

I think there is still a spare pair of shoes there so I can escape to the bush when visiting.

Huia

[ 24. September 2011, 13:08: Message edited by: Huia ]
 

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Posted by Silver Faux (# 8783) on :
 
Once you move into a condo, the rules become simple: for everything you buy, dispose of something.
Buy a new shirt today? Donate one to charity.
Buy yet another book lately? Hide one in the church's library.

When my youngest son was at college, it took a full van to move him there to start the term, and the van just as full on the drive back at term's end.
Of course, it wasn't the same stuff that he returned home with, but it did fill the van.
So he understood the "one in / one out" rule long before I did.
 

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :
 
How do other parents decide how involved to be in making sure their teens get their homework done? Is it the teen's problem and not yours? Do you enforce a homework time? Check homework for completeness and/or accuracy? Something in between? Something else?

Littlest One is not so little any more -- he's 16, in 11th grade. Because of his neurodevelopmental glitches, I've been more involved in his schoolwork than is typical, and more than I was with his older siblings. I had to be.

And I'm trying to figure out whether it's time to back off now, and let him ask for help if he needs it, and otherwise let him succeed or flounder or fail on his own. Or whether he still needs more support than a typical kid his age needs. Or whether it matters whether he needs the support, because he really doesn't want it any more.

I'm inclined to think that backing off is the right thing to do. But then I get the automated email from the school showing that he failed to turn in a couple of assignments, and I find myself jumping back in, and he gets ill-tempered about it, because he really wants me to leave him alone about it.

And then I wonder if I'm backing off because it's time to back off (which would be a good thing to do -- an over-involved parent is bad for a kid), or whether I'm backing off because I dislike getting into hissing matches with a teenager (which would be a bad thing to do -- it's a parents job to enforce the rules, even when the teenager pitches a fit about it).

And why doesn't it get easier to get a kid through their teens? It's not like we haven't done this before. You'd think we'd know how to handle it by now!
 

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Posted by harmony hope (# 4070) on :
 
If only there was an easy-to-decide-on answer... I often ask myself more or less the same question. I do know one thing though - you are undoubtedly a brilliant mother just for asking yourself those questions!
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Here's my teenage son; the one I've sought advice about re his lack of enthusiasm for mornings, lack of enthusiasm for revision, etc.

Here is the thing he is enthusiastic about; creative writing, in this instance the script for the clip in my sig. He's the long-haired one in the armchair.

My baby....
 

---

Posted by Japes (# 5358) on :
 
North East Quine, that's fabulous!
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Yes, brilliant!
 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
NEQ - I love it. And it's stricken terror into the heart of MY teen
 

---

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :
 
Wife and I survived four teens. Basically we let them face the natural consequences of their choices. We started that early on. When daughter was late getting up for school one day, I took her there in her pjs. Did not happen again. When son got in trouble with law, he had to pay the fines and did the community service. Had little problem with second son and third son, but what we did was to encourage them to follow their dreams.

Daughter is now 33 with a daughter of her own. Granddaughter very much like her mother.

Son has two daughters, one with ADHD (mild). It is amazing to see how he had become a great father in his own right.

Second son is starting on a career path of his own making. Should do well.

Third son is still in college, but is a leader of his peers.

Sort of burying them when they turn 13 and not digging them up until they turn 21, my advice is to allow them to experience the natural consequences of their decisions and encourage them to pursue their own interests.
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
mind you, said child hasn't been living at home for nearly two years
* so whyyyyyyyyyyy is the stuff still here?

* at what stage is stuff finally evicted from parental home?

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When the parents move out of that home.

Moo

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Absolutely true!

I spent periodic weekend days helping a friend get her stuff packed and out of the parental home when they downsized to retirement living. This went on for over a year.

The male parental unit finally had it -he wants to lease out the place- and served her with an eviction notice.

So she moved her tail and her stuff in a Uhaul truck to three spaces in a local self storage. She put the last three, leftover, nasty foot lockers in the backseat of my car. Which might need detailing now. She couldn't understand why I blew a fuse. "Don't take it out on me!" Grrr!

She's my age- mid-fifties.

She told me that she'd take me out for dinner and a movie in thanks for the help. But she wanted me to help her move a small chest of drawers out of her dwelling to storage.

I very, very carefully told her that I was wrung out on moving stuff for a while. "So the bottom line is you don't want to do it?" Uh, that would be correct.

We went out to dinner, but I had to pay for my own movie ticket because she had gotten into a minor fender-bender on which she had to cover the deductible. Oh. And also she had to cover the cost of a Thanksgiving trip to the Grand Canyon (she certainly wasn't going to spend it with her parents and her abusive brother!), a new pair of hiking boots, and a day pack (which I offered to loan her, but no, she needed a new one of her own).

<><><><><><><><><><><><>

Don't let this happen to you. File the eviction papers before they turn thirty.

So how long does adolescence last again? As Wodders' sig says, "Childhood may be brief but immaturity can last a lifetime." I'm pretty immature myself, but looking at my friend sometimes, makes me feel a little better.

Luckily, she is a good companion with whom to go to museums and plays and concerts. And in some ways I'm not a prize myself.
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Sorry to everyone for hogging space on a perfectly useful advice thread. It's the adolescent in me.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
file under: life lessons for the teenager set -

I let my daughter borrow the car to go to wasilla today. she took it last night. we live 3/4 of a mile from the bus stop. this morning, the 10 year old was exhausted (my birthday party last night was epic for someone as wee as he is) so I decided to let him sleep. Talked to the teen; he wanted to go to school ('cause, see, The Girl will be there) so I helped rattle his cage, made sure he had his jacket and a flashlight. mentioned the time to him a few times ("remember it takes ten minutes at a fast clip!").

He called me from down the road saying he'd rounded the corner to see the bus pulling away. asked me to call his sister and demand a ride for him. I sent her a text; but it would be over 20 miles out of her way and she didn't have time. oh well.

Guess you missed school, buddy. (it's 14 miles away. helluva walk in the dark)

oh crisis! somebody give me a ride! I'll fail school for sure!

oh please.

part of me wanted to scramble to find him a ride, but the part that won says that missing the day is healthy. it's one of those consequences things. so he's moping, but it's all good. and he hasn't once tried to pass the blame onto anyone else, so we've got some progress, here.
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
Hi.
Happy new year to you all.

I'm posting here rather than on the general parent help cos I don't want it up there on page one for evermore...

I have a dilemma regarding space allocation.
I have 4 kids aged 20, 18, 14 and 12. We moved into a 3 bed house 5 years ago and built into the loft straightaway, to provide D1 and D2 with own rooms. S1 and S2 share, OH and I share. When D1 moved out to go to university last September, the others moved around to have a room each. By Feb this year, she was ill and home again. Siblings moved back without fuss. We have just had an extension built so that we now have a good sized kitchen/diner/living area, with the idea that OH and I will make the (small) living room our bedroom for a year or so, til someone moves out, so the boys can have a room each. The unspoken plan was that boys would go upstairs to loft rooms, girls would move downstairs into slightly bigger rooms. Yesterday I realised that it would be a lot less hassle to simply move one boy across to our room and leave the rest alone.

D2 goes ballistic. It's not fair, apparently. Despite doing a token amount of housework as rent, despite being out 4 nights out of 7.
Despite the fact that being on a floor of their own gives them a lot of privacy and autonomy, with a shower room pretty much to themselves, and the logic of not being in the middle of the house.

I don't know if I'm being fair, being nasty or being a wimp. Instant reaction, anyone?

ETA: the original '3rd bedroom' was so small it got lost as a wide place in the hall.

[ 31. December 2011, 16:07: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
 

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Posted by birdsoftheair (# 15219) on :
 
hmmm, I wonder if all the fuss is due to it being your room rather than actual logical objections, ie son is being favoured by this, rather than it being practical. Sounds a lot like our house where we only have 2 to worry about.It still seems to be a competition as to how much each one gets etc.I just get sick of it.

Maybe a group meeting to discuss it?
Or just say decision is made and cover your ears (sounds a lot like my DD)
Birds
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
It's because she (D2) was looking forward to moving back down to the biggest room in the house, and she did only get a 5 month stint in it previously. If she was 15, it would be a much more rational arguement, but chances are she'll have moved out in 6 months - she often talks about getting a flat as soon as she has a job. Maybe it's a non-problem, and as you say I should lay down the law and cover my ears.

[ 31. December 2011, 18:41: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
 

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Posted by Ann (# 94) on :
 
Friends of ours used to swap round every six months - each had a turn in the single and really too small bedroom and the double and spread out bedroom.
 

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Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Taliesin:
It's because she (D2) was looking forward to moving back down to the biggest room in the house, and she did only get a 5 month stint in it previously. If she was 15, it would be a much more rational arguement, but chances are she'll have moved out in 6 months - she often talks about getting a flat as soon as she has a job. Maybe it's a non-problem, and as you say I should lay down the law and cover my ears.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
Dear D2
Welcome to the real world. Life is not fair. But i still love you lots
xx

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yes...

Janine, I think you were replying to a previous page. But thank you for reminding me how grateful I am to live in the UK. What a nutty system.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
Taliesin - when the "not fair" argument gets thrown at me, I pull the "my house, my rules" card. I try to talk it out rationally at first, give them a chance to come round to my viewpoint on their own; but the reality is, a family is not a democracy, and the bill-payers and sock-washers get to make the rules.

let her huff and puff and slam some doors. high drama is worth exactly it's full physical weight.

she needs to remind herself how lucky she is to have a room at all, especially one she isn't sharing with someone else.

'sides, the boys are going to be there longer, so it makes sense they get settled in a place where there won't be more and more moving. then she can come back to her room and no one will have jumped her claim while she is away. otherwise, she'll come home for the holidays and find all her crap in a bunch of boxes in the attic. this way, she has her haven safely tucked away and nobody will have ousted her.
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
"....a family is not a democracy, and the bill-payers and sock-washers get to make the rules....."


oh yes
THAT one is going up on the notice board right now!
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Janine, I think you were replying to me. He isn't often actually late for school, but he heads out of the house with something grabbed from the fruit bowl to be eaten on the school bus for breakfast; one of his school ties* in one pocket, to be put on in the bus; I hope he combs his hair on the bus 'cause he doesn't do it before leaving....It drives me nuts, and I'm sure it's not a good start to his day.

We have the NHS so free medical treatment, and we don't have the same system re truancy / lateness. I'm in no danger of ending up in court. Any blame is laid firmly at his door by the school. Also, it's a fairly small (800 pupil) rural state school, where the kids seem to be cherished as individuals and where his teachers are generally sympathetic to well-meaning-polite-but-hopelessly-disorganised types.

(He has to have two ties, as, at any given time, he's lost one. By the time he's lost the second, the first has turned up.)
 

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Posted by Clarence (# 9491) on :
 
Just a note to give you hope.

17 yo niece, aka Princess Bitchface, just shouted her mother dinner at a good restaurant and followed it up with a movie.

Am still wondering who she is and what she did with the real niece, but poor embattled sister is SO happy she has her daughter back.
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Just wondering what your opinions might be.
My boy is fourteen and a half, a lovely lad but with the encumbant problems of a)being a teenager and, more specifically b) carrying a lot of baggage and insecurity due to life experiences. Most of you will be aware that he's an adopted child.

Two and a half years ago, during a time of family trauma, we moved house and I left teaching and started a far far more rewarding job which I love.

The downsides are that I earn less money and that I work shifts. This means that I am out of the house two evenings a week (one the evening he's at Scouts, one the evening he ought to be at another club but keeps refusing to go or to find a replacement for). I also work every other weekend, usually 2.30-9 on a Saturday and 7-3 on a Sunday. On the plus side, it's a job I leave at work when I walk out of the door, has a degree of flexibility to it, and means that during the holidays we have half a day together even when I'm not on leave.

I have a policy that, because of the time I am at work and he is at home, I do not do anything else (apart from one women's group at church to which he is also invited and gets to share cakes and a drink with us and then play on my friend's computer and with her dog while we all chat once a fortnight). I never go out with friends or do lots of housework or go to an exercise class or attend work do's in the evenings - I do all that during the mornings when I'm at home and he's at school.

The job is with children with disabilities, which he resents, believing I love them more than him. And he greatly resents me not "being there for him". He also resents us not being wealthy and it is causing him problems with his behaviour, even though he's actually a really good guy!

He wants me to pack in my job and go back to teaching. The advantages would be that I would be there most evenings and weekends and school holidays and we'd have a slightly better income. The disadvantages would be that I would be exhausted, I'd be swapping a job that I love for one that is far more tiring and stressful, he'd still be jealous of the relationships I made with the kids, and at my age a career change really needs to be the one which I'm considering keeping for the rest of my working life. Plus, of course, teaching doesn't end at 3.30pm when the kids go home.

In four years time he could have left home and be at university or with a job and a flat of his own.

What would you do? Would you change your job, knowing that the hours you are working are potentially adding to how screwed up he is?
 

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Posted by Jenn. (# 5239) on :
 
Smudgie - *hugs*

Aged 14-18 I resented my parents for: not being christian; not being my personal taxi service; not giving me money; not coming to school plays; not coming to parents evenings and much more.

I don't know what you should do, but I do know that 14 yr olds resent their parents being anything other than perfect (and the definition of perfect changes daily).

Is there a comprimise job? Working in an EBD school? Or a school for children with physical disabilities?

Prayers for you as you make the decision
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I, too, think that most teens will resent something. Two weeks ago, my elder teen had a moan at me for not doing enough for him whilst I was driving him to school after he'd missed the bus.

My 14 year old niece was hugely resentful when her parents provided her with a brand new baby brother, and she had a point; especially when he reached the toddling stage and was into everything. She hated going out as a family and having complete strangers assume she was a teenage mum. (Though not as much as her Mum hated people assuming she was the granny!).

If you did change jobs, do you think there would be aspects of that he'd resent, too?
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Agreed with the going trend so far. As a teen I somewhat resented that my brother got so much attention despite the fact that with his disabilities he very obviously needed it. And that was even though my brother and I were quite close! I rather think that teens need to resent something, and if he's resenting that you have a job you love, it could be far worse! This way at least his image of jobs will be that they are too fun and one should save time for one's family! A good model for him as he starts his own career.
 

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Posted by Jenny Ann (# 3131) on :
 
Well, I'm not a parent so what do I know, but - I think well done for having a teen that wants to spend time with you, definitely a job well done!

JennyAnn
 

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Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by comet:
a family is not a democracy, and the bill-payers and sock-washers get to make the rules.

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I like that.

Smudgie, I wouldn't let your 14 year old call the shots. Teenagers will always resent something - I think they need to. And one of the best things you can give your kids is happy parents. If you love your job that counts for a lot.
 

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Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
Another factor for him (and you) to consider is that it might not be that easy to get a job in teaching. The TES forum picture seems to be that the jobs with security are not there anymore.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
... and at that age you're supposed to resent your parents for something, even if you have to make it up. You might remind him that the teaching workload means you'll be able to spend far less time with him than you currently do, and you're actually keeping this job for his sake!

If you think it worth delving into, you might ask him what specific things make him feel that you love the kids more than him. I mean, is it talking about them at home, or the fact that their emergencies drag you away from [insert event] here, or ...? If you can drag a specific concrete detail out of him, it may be something you could visibly alter in his favor. But the general statement could mean just about anything, up to and including "I don't want you spending time with anybody BUT me."
 

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Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
Smudgie, you can't look after him if you don't look after yourself. Its the old airline routine, if oxygen masks drop down, get your own on first.

One of the exercises I do with the parents I work with is the teenage vaccuum cleaner suck-in short circuit. Your boy is clearly using a very common suck-in (play on Mum's vulnerabilities, ie, your worries about having changed jobs and the impact on him) and you need to figure out what to answer when he tries that. It is just a suck-in - teens are truly gifted at derailing a discussion in their favour. He can think what he likes, but you simply need to tell him you love him and refuse to discuss it - it isn't actually his business.

A lot of truth has already been told above about teens needing to have a focus for disgruntlement - the big thing is not to become persuaded they are correct.

For the record, other common suck-in tactics:

• Swearing
• Dirty looks
• You're not my real mother/father
• Trying to get you to argue
• I hate you
• Slamming doors

quote:

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It would be nice if you cared dad

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... I hadn't got my car or kurumans's home in time to get her to one of her Spin (gym) sessions - she is a recovering (I doubt) anorexic who works out for around seven hours a day and studies post grad for another seven. Never mind that kuruman neede3d her car for an urgent and serious medical appointment.

Grrrrrrr fucking grrrrrrrrrrrrr

I even went on an eight kilometre run with her yesterday to keep her happy.

But apart from that life's good.

Grrrrrrr fucking grrrrrrrrrrrrr

And she's happy now - after an hour long workout. But I'm not.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
*sigh*

... and it hasn't got any easier since then.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Zappa, does she have any aunts or cousins closer in age to her than you are? Relations that aren't parents often communicate more easily and get things over. It works with our daughters and their younger brothers (especially the youngest of them).
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Zappa, is she getting any help for the anorexia? Because this doesn't sound recovered, it sounds transferred. My next sister down was badly anorexic as a teenager. It took professional help to get her eating semi-normally and willing to be less in control.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
She was ... or did. Now she's self managing. Sort of. And she's fine. No-one else is. To be honest I'm close to my wits' end, but so far have found a few suck it up techniques.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
Not wishing to state the obvious, but if she is fine and no-one else is, would it not be prudent to suggest that she take her self-pity and other problems elsewhere where there might be people more competent than mere family to deal with it?
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Part of the gold standard treatment for anorexia is usually some form of family therapy. Has that been offered ?
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
I don't know that there was any - it would have been during the two periods of blatant disorder rather than this on-going era of post-disorder universe control. She lived with her mother then. God it's exhausting. But the last week or so has improved because my own workload has decreased and - even if it sometimes means driving 40kms each way - I am able to meet her for big one on one coffee times, or intensive focused times when it's all about her. And it is.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Big thanks though, all of you. It's great to hear others' views and experiences and not be alone. Kuruman and I manage to debrief with humour from time to time. I think the kuruzapplets might suffer most ...
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

Had a good few days. Worked hard to find happy times. Found some. Tonight daughter unit storms in furious with everyone because her dinner (she prepares her own, cos no-one else is up to it) has allegedly burned 'because I was on the phone'. I meaning her, not me.

Excuse me? And like that's anyone else's choice but yours? I pointed this minor detail out to her, but I doubt I achieved anything - though later she did ask what CD was playing (I suspect a kind of reconciliatory question).

I suppose in the end I should vacate this thread. This isn't about a teenager, it's about a special needs adult. Ironically she's doing a post grad teaching diploma, and I edited an essay for her today in which she addresses the needs of a disruptive (hypothetical) special needs child. But bloody hell it's like a high needs adolescent.

Today at Mass there was a very very ill anorexic woman. Probably about 37 kg. That's only about two kg lighter than Zapplette # 2 was when all this flared back up in 2007. She's come a long way since then but Christ it ain't easy. And there's a helluva lot of steps back along the way.

I whispered a prayer for the anorexic woman. It was polluted by the memories I have of Zapplette # 2 when she was at her physical worst, when I could not look at her. Pray God we don't go back there again.

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. There's some parallels: my sons are suffering for your self-centreness. Somehow I have to make some right decisions here.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Anorexia is a disorder of control, and will continue to be so. If family therapy has not been offered, I would seriously look to see if there are any options for you to access some, or be assessed for it. If you don't' find to deal with things as a family, you will end up resenting her and that will help none of you.

It sounds like a situation in which you need professional advice, rather than mild internet support.

[ 09. September 2012, 11:24: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I think the thread title could usefully be interpreted as Help! I've got an adolescent! and I firmly believe adolescence can often carry on to the mid-20s, or longer. I have no problems with people beyond official teenage being discussed here.
 

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Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
Maybe it's a bit like when Joseph was described as being a young 17. In age should have been counted as an adult, but in reality still had a lot of "growing up" to do.
 

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Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :
 
I haven't got a teenager, but my Sister in Law has - he's 13/14 now, and she wrote to me:
C has grown up so much since you last saw him, definitely in teenagedom, any tips on motivating that age to put in some effort would be appreciated! He's still really into his music with lots of bands at school and a Saturday band every other week. Karate is quite full on, training now for his black belt, hopefully May next year he will be ready to take the exam. It's just a lot harder work persuading him he has to go, always okay once there just can't always be bovvered!!!!

I can't offer any tips - can you?
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
Zappa... I wanted to PM, but I'm not because anorexia is a secret illness that thrives when it's allowed to be hidden, so I'll say here how much I feel for you and your partner and the younger children. My eldest has a non-specific eating disorder, combined with a load of food (wheat, dairy, yeast) intolerences possibly caused by the screwy behaviour, and her elder sister has fought one for a decade. Both have anxiety disorders of some kind that they use the eating disorder to try to control. I am currently away from home, and my colleague turns out to have a close family member with a very similar problem. At church, because i talked (sobbed) about the issues in a prayer group, a woman later phoned me to talk about her daughter presenting similar anxieties.

My first feeling when I discovered my daughter's illness was one of shame. It's another level that stops people talking about it.

Doublethink, I am NOT being rude or sarcastic when I say, do you know of any help at all available in the UK, for a person with an eating disorder not actually about to die because their BIM is under 14? (normal is 19 - 24 FYI)

ALL we had was some very unhelpful 'counselling' by someone with no clue, at very inflexible hours (IE, only for people without work) and I have paid for nutritionist, which helped a bit at £75 a go, and my colleague's relation is having outpatient treatment for hundreds of pounds a week in a private clinic, and I phoned every single family therapist in a 50 mile radius and no one was able to work with us.

So vague internet support from a community I believe cares is actually the best there is.

[ 26. September 2012, 15:11: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I have a teenager who started University three weeks ago. Self-catering. He is perfectly capable of cooking simple, inexpensive meals and did so regularly at home. However, he has set himself a tight budget food-wise, and it sounds as though he's not eating. He had a starter box of groceries from us, (pasta, tinned tuna, eggs, tinned peas etc) which he managed to eke out for ages, and now he's run out of that, it sounds as though he's not eating. Today, he claims to have had cornflakes with milk for breakfast, a tin of soup for lunch and a tin of soup for dinner. Plus a bar of chocolate. And that's it.

What do you do when a teen is being really stupid but is living 200 miles away? Let them get on with it? He knows I think he's being ridiculous.
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
I remember doing the same when I started university, and actually lost a stone in the first three weeks (which I couldn't afford to lose back then). The problem was simply an organisational one: I did know how to cook, but I didn't know how to shop. I also hadn't yet found out where the nearest supermarkets were. And besides, I was too busy getting my head around lectures and study. So I lived on a sandwich a day bought from the off-licence next door. It was only when I noticed how tired I was feeling that it clicked that maybe I wasn't getting enough by way of vitamins.

So the problem may sort itself out once your son has settled more into his new way of life. But the thing that really helped me get organised was teaming up with a friend to do shopping and cooking. It meant that we could suss out the supermarkets between us, and it was a whole lot cheaper to buy things for two instead of for one. It also made cooking more fun and creative. It might be worth suggesting to your son.

Good luck to the young man.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Thanks. He's naturally skinny; he had a BMI of 19.6 when he went away, so losing even 8 pounds would tip him into the underweight category.

It is a big change; when I started Uni the halls provided breakfast and evening meal and clean bed linen. In second year I was self-catering but still had fortnightly clean bed linen. He's straight into self-catering, plus all his laundry.

He does know where the nearest supermarket is, but perhaps hasn't appreciated how often he needs to buy stuff.

He's ended up in an odd student flat - 3 females and him. The girls are friendly, but I think he's the odd one out re combining to cook together. There was supposed to be a fifth flatmate, but he's been a no-show.
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
Here's the thing, when we Want our teenagers to talk to us why do they tell us stuff like this?!

You have my utter sympathy and no doubt that of many more on here. Sadly arms length catering is not really an option, so don't even think about it.
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
... yes, very much sympathy.
Buying food is difficult because of quantities and special offers and so on - it feels so expensive to buy the right quantity... I am cooking for only two at the moment and I struggle to get the amounts right.
They do talk, but they don't necessarily tell us anything - my daughter exagarated or concealed until she really wanted me to know, then hit with with stuff that was clear. It's human nature to want the story to sound more interesting, and most people forget details or underestimate (or over estimate) unless they are actually keeping a food diary.
So unless you're worried about deep unhappiness (of which food issues is a symptom) maybe it's better to trust that he'll figure it out eventually. But do encourage him to offer to cook for the girls in the flat one evening - if he buys the veg can they supply seasoning, that kind of thing? and then they might all look out for each other a bit more.
good luck.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
What sort of area is he living in? Supermarket food may not be the cheapest option where he is, it might be worth checking the markets and/or local butchers or ethnic stores. My daughter now cooks and eats chicken feet and pig's trotters, which she didn't learn from me.

How near is the nearest supermarket? Is it near enough for him to time a sweep through as they really reduce food? Here with late night shopping to midnight, it's about 8pm. I eat a lot of bags of salad that cost me 10p. And if I manage to find lots of bonus cheap stuff, the stuff that works that way gets frozen - 30p ready meals, 30p for a couple of lamb chops.

Is there a freezer in his flat? My daughter's flats (four years of this) they had a drawer each in the freezer, and some of the storage I provided included plastic boxes for the fridge to keep her food separate (she's massively allergic). Pilfering might also be an issue - having tempting food around when the other students roll home from a night in the bar can mean you lose any nice food. My daughter kept dry goods and her plates, cooking equipment et al under her bed in a couple of plastic crates with lids. (Again, she couldn't use equipment someone had used and covered with something she was allergic to)

She bought a meat parcel from the local butcher a couple of times. It looked expensive at £10, but there was so much in it it lasted her for weeks - there was still stuff left in the freezer when she moved out that she gave to a fellow student who was staying on as a PhD. Mixed bundle of stewing beef, sausages, bacon, lamb ...

Is the tight budget for food so he can afford beer? If so he's probably getting calories from that, but he'll really need to think about boosting his vitamins. (This one wasn't an issue - alcohol is one of the many allergies)

What are the cooking facilities like? Student facilities can look totally unhygienic within days and put even keen cooks off. Is it organising time to cook or the thought that it's going to take an hour to clean the kitchen before cooking is possible? A slow cooker can mean you eat when you get in and are hungry, then can wash up and prepare afterwards. I have done things like prepare all the vegetables and meat for the next day straight after eating, put it in a box in the fridge overnight, then next morning all I've had to put the food into the slow cooker, turn it on and leave.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 

quote:

---

Here's the thing, when we want our teenagers to talk to us why do they tell us stuff like this?!

---

He told us last night that he'd done his week's food shopping; 14 tins of cheap soup, 30 cocktail sausages, which he planned to eat at the rate of 4 a day, more milk and a bar of chocolate.
Instant parental panic.

Thanks for calming me down. Now I think of it, it probably is a shopping problem. The nearest supermarket is 20 mins walk away, and 14 tins and 4 pints of milk is probably as much as he can carry from the supermarket to his flat, so just buying that would have been at least an hour long round trip. He's used to cooking, but he's also used to food just being there, sitting in the fridge or cupboards, ready to be cooked.


Thanks, shipmates!
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Cross-posted with Curiosity killed:

He's in a satellite campus in a small town. It's a 20 min walk to the nearest supermarket by day, but that includes an unlit stretch through woods; they've been told not to use that route late at night, so buying late night supermarket reductions would involve a longer walk, unless he chums up with someone with a car.

His flat is beautiful. New kitchen two years ago; American fridge / freezer; plenty of storage space. It was immaculately clean when he moved in three weeks ago. His flatmates are all doing nursing degrees, so I assume they'll have high standards of hygiene.

He doesn't like alcohol, so unless his tastes change, that isn't an issue.

Hmmmm.... I wonder if we could / should do an online Tesco shop for him, so that he's well stocked with back up tins and just needs to shop for fresh food for the next couple of weeks?
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
If he has a freezer, it may be worth using Iceland to do a monthly stock up, as they do a free delivery if you spend more than £25 option, which I used when I didn't have access to a car. Also if he gets to be friends with those in his flat (or other flats in the block) then getting a taxi back between them with all the foods on "stock" up weeks is a good option.
I'm sure he will work it out in time, and it does sound like it is a practical issue not anything else which is good.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I used to do that sort of helping fill up with heavy food when I visited - mother pack horse.

(She and the workshop leaders prefer her to wear her hair braided into corn-rows for workshops and labs and I used to rebraid it every 6 - 10 weeks, so it wasn't unknown for me to go up a couple of additional times a year as well as helping move in and out every year.)
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
Is he likely to venture to a local church....one of my friends thinks that being adopted by old ladies who think that students need feeding up is always a good plan......I know at our church we have an adopt a student scheme going on.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Now I think of it, it probably is a shopping problem. The nearest supermarket is 20 mins walk away, and 14 tins and 4 pints of milk is probably as much as he can carry from the supermarket to his flat, so just buying that would have been at least an hour long round trip.

---

Have you thought of getting him a little folding cart to carry the stuff home?

Moo
 

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Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
I was at uni at the very beginning of online shopping,it was a huge novelty but... if he can team up with other people, organising your own supermarket delivery is cheaper (you can zoom to the offers, go to my supermarket,co.uk, cheaper delivery than taxi/bus fares), avoids carrying stuff, and particularly good for bulky things like loo roll. Even if he doesn't want to team up with people, delivery charges are fairly small if you get a big enough quantity of food.

Personally, I wouldn't do a delivery from a distance for him, he does have to learn and you do, eventually (i remember living off omelette and cous cous for quite a while, not a great culinary combination but I've survived). But, an emergency parcel from home - chocolate brownies last well sent in the post, fruit cake would be a classic, some multi vitamin tablets and dried fruit - might make you feel better, he gets the novelty of a parcel, and he might get the message. You could always slip in a gift token for the nearby supermarket to him if you can afford it.
 

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Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :
 
Does he really not have enough money to buy reasonable food? You say that he has set himself a tight budget, which implies that he does have the funds to spend more, but doesn't want to.

He is also telling you about it even though he knows you think he is being ridiculous, which makes me wonder whether he is trying to get you to give him money, or provide him with food in the way you naturally have done when he was at home.

If he does have the money to buy proper food himself I think you should leave him to it - unless you have other worries concerning his desire/ability to look after himself. Learning that you have to spend money on the boring stuff is a part of growing up and becoming independent.

I have a relative who, when he left home and bought his own house, decided he didn't want to spend his own money on the things that had previously been provided for him, and didn't eat or sleep in his own house for something like 5 years. His parents supplied everything he needed without asking for any contribution, and he is now the meanest adult I have ever met.

BTW Why on earth is he not buying big bags of pasta, which are cheap, filling and not too heavy to carry? Every other cash-strapped student I've known has done this.

[ETA Cross-posted (and agree) with Ferijen]

[ 07. October 2012, 16:06: Message edited by: Drifting Star ]
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Thus the "Freshman Fifteen".

Pasta and enormous alcohol consumption.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Thanks, everyone. His Dad phoned him last night and ranted. Told him a box of cornflakes, 14 tins of soup and 30 cocktail sausages to last a week is not a healthy diet! Anyway, he's done another shopping today and bought bread / cheese / eggs / apples which is better. And I've done an online shop for him, all bulky or heavy items. I haven't ordered any everyday stuff like milk or bread, as he has to get into the habit of shopping. I've just ordered store cupboard stuff, pasta, rice, couscous, tinned tuna, baked beans.

Hopefully, he'll get organised with someone else and work out a sensible shopping strategy.

Teens! Why doesn't it get better once they leave home???
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Cross-posted with Drifting Star:

quote:

---

Does he really not have enough money to buy reasonable food? You say that he has set himself a tight budget, which implies that he does have the funds to spend more, but doesn't want to.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Cross-posted with Drifting Star:

quote:

---

Does he really not have enough money to buy reasonable food? You say that he has set himself a tight budget, which implies that he does have the funds to spend more, but doesn't want to.

---

I think at the moment he just doesn't know what expenses he's likely to have in the next year, and is erring on the side of caution.

---

well, then he's the opposite of either of my two elder children. "Money! yay! spend it all quick!"


both of mine would be eating out every night and then wondering why they can't afford to keep the lights on in a month.

I also find it amazing that you have here a teenage boy who isn't trying to eat everything that doesn't bite back first. I just can't imagine this scenario ever happening with my son.

I feel like I live with Pacman.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Zappa... I wanted to PM, but I'm not because anorexia is a secret illness that thrives when it's allowed to be hidden, so I'll say here how much I feel for you and your partner and the younger children.

---

quote:

---

posted by NEQ:
being caught out by the hob in his flat which has a "safety" cut-out after 20 mins i.e. it has to be actively put on again every 20 mins

---

Dear God - I'd never cope with that. Wonder if it might be worth introducing him to a slow cooker as you can a) put it on and leave it and b) use it for cheaper cuts of meat which take a long slow cook to do. Or indeed any casserole type thing, which also gives you multiple portions for the week or for freezer storage. (I love my slow cooker - can you tell?)
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
By trying to allow my son to take a bit more responsibility for his own future (and because his school haven't mentioned much about deadlines for 2013), we have accidentally missed applying for some of the sixth form places which do the courses he wants to do. He's applied for one, and has one other form to fill in, but it does somewhat diminish his chances for September.

He's had a good education generally from his school, but it looks highly likely that the problems he's been having all year with Maths and English are going to result in him seriously underachieving in both those subjects at GCSE and having lost all confidence in his ability. They are both essential for his future choices. What I'd like to do is take him out of school for a year and let him concentrate on getting good results in those two subjects and also take a GCSE in ICT which was not available at his school.

Does anyone know whether it is possible to do this and how to set about it? Does he have to do it at the college he wants to do his A'levels at? If he's a May baby, does it mean we can do it without having to pay tuition fees in his final year or would it prove costly? The school is not proving very helpful at giving advice and Connexions now no longer exists.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Sorry I'm so late on this - I read it at the time and couldn't think of anything but it has struck me that even without Connexions there should still be somebody in what used to be the education dept of your local authority who will have this information - and if they are reluctant to help then ask your local councillor to find out for you - that is what there for.
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
I hope you found a solution, the basic rule is that you can do whatever you like if you can get a college to agree, and so long as you enrol on a course before his 19 birthday, it'll be free for the duration of that course. I'm amazed the colleges aren't telling you this though, you'd think they'd be more helpful.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm now charging my nearly 20 year old daughter rent. I said £30 a week, she said £100 a month and I agreed. She's given me the first months rent in notes and I feel weird. Can anyone help with appropriate boundaries...?
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
Taliesin -

What do you mean, 'boundaries'?

Sounds like you're doing your kid a big favour...market rates here (N.England, shitty inner city) are say £35 per week for a single box room, food and bills on top - that must be £65 a week incl council tax. You're in the South, which will be worse. In other words, kid is still being a (partial) kid and relying on you, so you still get to call the (most important, whatever they are to you) shots. I'd bite the bullet and spoil a day getting that fact out in the open so everyone can get used to it.

NEQ - I'm really impressed by your kid's initial fiscal discipline, whilst getting his head round a new situation. And if he's now easing off, well good. I'm a lecturer, and where I work the SU have recently run stalls encouraging students to buy own-brands!!...in my day, hrmpf hrmpf, happy shopper green margarine hrmpf hrmpf, never had it so good hrmpf hrmpf...

MiM
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
a day.

and yes, her elder sister is paying £400 a month to live in a bedsit, food and bills on top. So she knows, really.

Except that I pay half that, cos she's at college, and the (darling, pro education) gov say her massive loan shall only cover tuition fees and half the rent. (plus small amounts of food, heat and what have you) So that's interesting. And she's dairy, wheat and yeast intolerant, so she can't exactly live on pasta and cheese or even beans on toast.

So having finally bitten bullet that means actual rent shall be paid by D2, since she hasn't done the housework-in-lieu I was prepared to accept, we still thrash out details. Yes, I'm a coward. She spent her 14-16 years threatening to leave home at the first legal opportunity so the habit of treading softly got ingrained.

look, I'm just casting about for a bit of support while I psyche myself up for the next bout.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
Stick to your guns! parenting ain't for sissies. and you're doing your kids no favors by coddling them too much. it's real world training, and GOOD FOR THEM.

(now, repeat this to myself 20-hundred times...)
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
mark-in-manchester, thank you. His latest scheme was to do a gammon roast and then eat it at the rate of one slice a day to see how that costed out. Electricity is included in his halls rent, so he didn't have to factor that in. He's acquired more kitchen stuff - some overseas students were in his halls for a single term exchange and donated him a wok and some other stuff when they left.

Come the summer, I'm going to be on here asking for advice re transporting him home- the car was filled to bursting point when we took him to Uni and he's got a lot more stuff now. I have visions of our house being swamped by his stuff over the summer - no idea where we will store it all!
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
North East Quine

It may not be coming home. That is if as at many universities he has to fend for himself in the private sector next year, then he will quite possibly have to pay for rental over the summer.

However expect to need to buy plenty of cleaning equipment and spend a couple of days helping to get the place into something that you might consider living in if desperate.

Jengie
 

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Posted by To The Pain (# 12235) on :
 
NEQ,

Shoot me a PM if you'd like me to survey my various Scottish University contacts - I had a couple of summers where my belongings got spread around the city while I waited for the next lease to commence. And these days I have the sort of friends who have spare rooms/cellars in the close/sheds/garages that they are happy to offer space in. Heck, I still have my last flatmate's wardrobe in my hall cupboard!

And in the interest of furthering the North East Loon's frugal efforts, I recently discovered a girl called jack and want to try everything she suggests!
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
love the girl called jack. thanks.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I've forwarded the link to the Loon, and will be trying out a couple of the recipes myself. What a great site! Thanks, To the Pain.
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
The boy now has a conditional offer at college, though one that's been a real steep learning curve in life lessons: he's suddenly had to process the fact that all my gentle nagging that "you really do need to work hard on your maths and English and get a decent GCSE" was actually ]really good advice that he'd have done well to heed! The offer they've given him is demanding Bs - he's expecting C or maybe even D in each. Result? He's started studying!

They also suggested he should lower his ambitions and do something less academically challenging than what he really wants to do. Initially he slumped and started looking at vocational courses that he wasn't really that interested in, then he pulled himself together, said "What do they know?" and set out to prove himself capable.

He's got the paperwork to apply to do resits for a year, either at the college which has made the offer or at another (more convenient!) college. All we need to do now is get him sufficiently organised to send that paperwork off.

Downside to all this - it seems that enrollment day could well be while he is on his one already-booked week away... and they're insisting that he attends in person. Seems a bit demanding - I'm hoping there's a sensible way around it.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Smudgie:
then he pulled himself together, said "What do they know?" and set out to prove himself capable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
So how are are everyone's teens doing?

I met one of them recently and he was a delight, but then I don't have to live with him - it did strike me then how much someone can mature in 6 months, as he had since I last met him.

---

And don't forget, you met the Smudgelet recently too
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
My daughter starts her final year of school tomorrow. I can't quite get my head round that.

Son is home for the summer and looking for a holiday job.

We had a big group family hug when son arrived home. It was lovely. However husband and daughter are taking bets on how long I can remain sweet tempered and sunny now that son is home.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I managed almost a week before wanting to throttle him. I think I deserve a reward for lasting out almost a week.
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Our oldest (16) has been testing the limits with inappropriate language and general rudeness. He spent the last two evenings without television access. We'll see his disposition when we get home from work this evening.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Good luck, Caissa!
Our son has never "tested the limits" as it were - no bad language, no intentional rudeness. The frustration comes from his amazing ability to sleep in / miss buses / forget which day it is/ end up with unnecessary complications because his phone is out of charge / out of credit / be in the wrong place / at the wrong time.

But he's wonderful, really.
 

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Posted by Haydee (# 14734) on :
 
My lovely 14 year old daughter has very cleverly bu**ered up the sliding door in her room - as we are on a first floor flat and I am not spiderwoman I am going to have to get (and pay) someone to fix it

It broke because she has never been able to grasp the concept known as 'finding out what the problem is' rather than implementing the 'use brute force' technique and therefore didn't spot that the runners were blocked when she was trying to shut it.

Mind you, she's convinced it was my fault because I insisted she opened it for a bit because the 'teenage den' smell was getting just too overpowering...
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
What do other people expect of teenagers at home for the summer? We're not asking for rent money (no point, he needs all the money he has to support himself at University) and he hasn't got a summer holiday job yet, though he is looking.

What we want is for him to do 1/4 of the housework, i.e. his own laundry, load /unload the dishwasher every other day, sort the recycling occasionally, hoover weekly, nip along to the shop if we're out of milk, cut the grass etc. Plus we don't want his stuff strewn all over the house, we don't want him leaving dirty mugs lying around, we want him to tidy up after himself as he goes.
 

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Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
NEQ - that sounds fair. We have a twenty-four year old at home at present after six years of being away either working or at uni. He's pretty good at doing his own laundry etc and a fantastic cook (so much so that I don't know where half my stuff in the kitchen is anymore). He's not so good at the cleaning, but I'm trying to get him to do more. He did the loos today, so perhaps we're getting there.
 

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :
 
I think it sounds perfectly reasonable, too.

One suggestion I'd make -- write your expectations out, go over them with him, and post them somewhere that it's not too difficult to refer to (front of the refrigerator, inside a cabinet door, whatever). Then, when his stuff is strewn all over the house, you can ask him to review the expectations, and make sure he's doing what's needed.
 

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Posted by Japes (# 5358) on :
 
I had a deal that I did all the cleaning of the kitchen, living room and bathroom. I also took back all the dog related chores, which is why I ended up with the cleaning as a whole, as he was an elderly dog, and contributed to the need for a lot of the work.

Mum preferred to deal with the cooking and laundry, though I sometimes did my own of both, or emergency loads of laundry.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
According to him, he was up till 4am, applying for jobs online. Then he woke up at 2pm this afternoon, and lay in bed reading till 3.30pm. At this point he got the irate parental yell, so he got up, but by the time he was showered, dressed and breakfasted (assuming you can describe a meal at 4pm as "breakfast")it was after 4.20pm. More parental nagging and he did his laundry and the dishwasher and made a cup of tea for everyone, but when I went to start making dinner, my paring knife and the pan I wanted to use were still in the dishwasher. So I was annoyed all over again...

How annoying would other people find this?

He's off out now, taking a neighbour's autistic son to his youth club, so my neighbour is telling me how wonderful he is. And he is wonderful in many, many ways.

Would this sort of thing drive other shipmates batshit crazy?
 

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Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :
 
It partly depends on what was expected of him before he left, and that ship has already sailed for you. And in what I am about to write, there is no criticism of your at all -- it's more a word to those still raising children at home.

When my wife went back to school, our three were 7, 10 and 13. At that point the two older started to do their own laundry (the youngest was ticked off because she wasn't tall enough to get her things into the top-loading machine and so had to rely on Mom until she got taller). All three discovered they were making the evening meal once a week -- we had a lot of pasta in ready-made sauce, but they all learned how to cook very quickly. And the ones who didn't cook were always responsible for clearing away after the evening meal and washing the dishes. (Just to explain, Dad tried to do the laundry -- really I did -- but I didn't do it up to Mom's standards, and she didn't cut me the slack she did the kids.)

So when each in turn arrived for the summer vacations, they just started doing what they had done. With or without jobs, and we experienced both kinds of summer with at least the oldest, they still did their own laundry and helped with meals.

Your expectations of him are absolutely the minimum, IMO. I'd guess there's motivation problem, which may well be out of your control.

John
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Theoretically, he was doing his own laundry for a couple of years before Uni, except for his white school shirts, which I did along with his dad's shirts, to make up a full white load. But if his sister didn't have a full load of darks or lights, she'd add some of his to hers, and vice versa, though in practice it meant his sister was doing the bulk of their joint laundry. And the whole "equal share of dishwasher" has been an ongoing hassle for years, along with practically everything else relating to him helping out around the house. He intends to do it, he says he'll do it, but somehow he just rarely does.
 

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Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:

Would this sort of thing drive other shipmates batshit crazy?

---

I went through a few years of keeping vampire hours, and I also have a fondness for reading, so I think I can empathize with your son.

I don't think your expectations are unreasonable - you're not a hotel, and when he's home, he needs to pitch in and do his share. This doesn't necessarily mean that he has to keep the same hours as you, though - if he's used to rising late and going to bed late, expecting him bushy-tailed at the breakfast table might be too much - but then as a night owl he should certainly be in the frame for helping to cook dinner (he can chop vegetables and be a kitchen slave, even if he can't actually cook, and maybe he'll pick something up) and clearing up afterwards.

Helping make dinner, ensuring that the dishes were done, kitchen was spotless and everything put away before he went to bed in the evening would, I'd think, cover his kitchen duties.
 

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Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :
 
(The following may not be feasible because you said he needs all his money for school, but if he gets a job...?)

If he leaves a chore undone, would it be possible for him to "hire" the person who ends up doing it for a reasonable hourly rate? Say he (ahem) "forgets" to load the dishwasher and you have to do it, and it takes you 10 minutes, he would then have to pay you 1/6 of an hour's wages. (In the States that would probably be around $1.30 to $1.60 - I don't know what cleaners earn where you are.)
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
I think the wage should be time-and-a-half for unexpected duties.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:

---

even if he can't actually cook,

---

quote:

---

He's an excellent cook. Indeed, only two weeks ago, when he was supposed to be getting ready to go to his aunt's for lunch, he was distracted by the realisation he had egg whites to use up. So he made macaroons. He was over an hour late for his aunt, but the macaroons were delicious.

(We were annoyed with him at the time - "using up my egg whites" isn't a good excuse for being very late!) [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Sounds to me that you are trying to force your square peg in a round hole.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Smudgie:
...My sixteen year old is starting to learn that one.

---

The poor oppressed wee laddie!



[ 19. June 2013, 07:21: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
I found that ignoring teenager's mess during the vacation was actually the Only way to survive.

Anything else produced upset and headaches
(mine)
 

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Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
My home-from-uni offspring are expected to do as they did before they left school - that is, pull their weight with household chores of all types, including mowing grass, shopping, sorting out and doing laundry, dishwasher emptying and cooking meals for us all from time-to-time.

And it helps enormously if they get the aged parent a drink without being asked - Pimms o'clock of course.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 


You know how I keep posting angsty stuff about my teenage son not getting up / not eating breakfast (or not eating breakfast till 3pm)/ not going to bed etc etc etc, interspersed with putting links on my sig line to various of his creative writings?

Well, the boy done good. He's written a children's novel which has been shortlisted for The Kelpies Prize.

Normal maternal angst levels will no doubt rise again soon enough, but at the moment there's rejoicing in the North East household.


 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
My teen is having a good summer. He is helping out 3 days a week with our church's breakfast/lunch programme.
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
NEQ, that's wonderful.

birdie wanted a general kids thread. Did s/he start one, and if so, where is it?
 

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Posted by Anna B (# 1439) on :
 
I have been reading this thread with much interest, as my 11-year-old son has suddenly begun sleeping 10-11 hours a night and eating double dinners.



 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Aha, the dreaded puberty is about to hit - or is already hitting - the poor guy.
 

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Posted by Haydee (# 14734) on :
 
As it's a public holiday today (Women's Day - the excitement never stops...) I relaxed the 'going to bed' and 'watching TV' rules for Miss Teen.

Needless to say, the chances of her getting up this morning are minimal because she was up past midnight...

... cleaning and tidying Even cleaning behind the cooker (desperately needed )

Happily the small child is distributing crumbs and hot chocolate all over the floor this morning to get us back to normality
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
The teens have been remarkably quiet recently, haven't they?
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
This thread is testament to the effort I have put into getting my teenage son to stop sitting up into the small hours reading and writing, and my efforts to transform into into someone who gets up / gets dressed / eats breakfast / doesn't miss buses / or lose things / or forget things etc etc etc. Huge angst and maternal concern.

Well, I failed. This week he signs a publishing contract for his first children's novel, and he hopes this is the start of a lifetime of late nights, missed breakfasts and much writing.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
I just want to congratulate him for all the effort he put into not trying to put his square peg in a round hole. I've never known a published author! (My sort are into self-publishing)


 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
OTOH, if you'd encouraged him never to go to bed before 2am, live in a teepee and only wash once a month, he'd probably have become a chartered accountant.
 

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Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Congratulations to your son NEQ - does this mean he won that competition?
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Yes, he won. The prize was £2000 and a publishing contract.
 

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Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Woo! - well done him. I'm not envious, oh no!
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Yes, he won. The prize was £2000 and a publishing contract.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
... my parents didn't ever "crash" with me when I was a student ...

---

Mine didn't either - I was in Kepplestone halls of residence, so it wasn't really an option - but I vaguely remember my dad once grabbing an hour or so's shut-eye on my bed having had an early start coming down from Orkney, stopped in Aberdeen to see me and before heading off to Edinburgh to see my sister and brother.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
A quick New Year prayer for all teenagers and parents of teenagers.


 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
This thread was on page three.

My elder teen has turned 20 (I was very young when I had him, not really old enough to have a son in his 20s ) and he has.... wait for it.... can't quite believe it myself.... bought himself an ironing board and iron.

It feels weird. Years of nagging about leaving dirty clothes on the floor, and now he's not only using a laundry basket, but he owns an ironing board. And he's gone through the ownership-of-an-ironing-board rite of passage two years younger than I did, and three years younger than his Dad.
 

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Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
Definitely feel in need of some support.
Youngest (15) asked if it was ok to go out tonight with friends for a birthday meal (friend's, not hers).
At 9:30pm I texted to find out how they were planning to get home, as by now it is dark - plus I had foolishly assumed they would have been back much earlier. Reply was that the meal was running late & they were still waiting for the dessert.
Long conversation via text to eventually get that another parent would now pick them up.
Should I ground her for not keeping us informed?
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
You had "assumed" she'd be back earlier - had she "assumed" she was allowed out later?

If she didn't keep you informed that the late-running meal meant that she was going to break a definite curfew then yes, ground her, but if it was miscommunication and misunderstanding, I'd say not.
 

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Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on :
 
Not unless you asked her to in the first place.

I'm not a parent, but to my mind, you should have a short discussion now and then bide your time. Next time she asks to do something similar, set clear ground rules and the consequences and then see what happens. I've been out for supper and have the timing be way out of my control and not realised how it would seem to others.

Glad to know she worked it all out even if you were afraid!
 

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Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
Trouble is, she has a habit of not always giving us the full picture.
The other dilemma is that she has self-harmed in the past. Our concern is if we get to heavy with her about things, she'll do it even more.
She is having counselling - but part of me feels like its a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. She tells us she is fine, she bounces in most of the time, except when we are on the way to the sessions, when she shuts down to me.
Arrgh - her brother & sister were never like this, so we really don't know what to do.
 

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Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on :
 
Ugh, teenagers! I still say, much less anxiety of you just let her know how it felt to be you in the situation and really deal with it the next time she is about to embark on an outing. It can be very clear cut - here's the deal, take it or make a new plan.

I feel like too many people try to get teenagers to see the sense of things right after something happens and their brains don't work that way. More learning can happen if they are reminded when they are about to get into a similar situation. Then, you can remind them of what happened last time and help to make a plan that takes variables into account.

It can be a brain development thing - maybe she just isn't able to think ahead to the consequences the way that your other two were able to. Frustrating all around.
 

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Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Kat in the Hat:
Trouble is, she has a habit of not always giving us the full picture.
The other dilemma is that she has self-harmed in the past. Our concern is if we get to heavy with her about things, she'll do it even more.

---

She sounds a lot like my sister at that age! With hind-sight, I think what would have helped her were really clear boundaries which parents and child agree to and stick to. No boundaries were set for the dinner, so it seems unfair to ground her - perhaps best used as a learning experience?

My sister would have benefited from a lot of love at this point, and knowing that her parents loved and liked her. SH is a coping mechanism (albeit an unwise one), so helping your daughter negotiate growing into a teenager (with lots of clear boundaries you can all agree on) will help her cope with life in better ways.

And if you can avoid it, do try not to compare her to her elder siblings, either explicitly or implicitly. With my sister (I'm the elder one) it not only damaged her relationship with her parents, but with me as well.

My two cents. Good luck - I remember how hard it was for our family at that time!
 

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Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
Thanks for the support - hindsight is great isn't it!
All we can do is our best & to acknowledge when we get it wrong.
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
It's a perennial problem, but I wouldn't ever ground anyone after an event.

Teens feel the need to hide a bit, and its normal. Our generation just lied, and with no mobile phones who could check? The key was to get back at curfew time, and I ran all sorts of mad risks to do it.

My 16 year old says he's going out, with a friend, and I say, please text by 6 if you're not planning to be back for dinner. And one night I called his mobile at 9.30 to remind him to be home for 10. But the purpose in calling or texting is to check all ok, not to renegotiate a boundary.

My 14 year old is diabetic, so different rules apply. I need to know where he is and when on the move from A to B. not sure how that's going to work in a couple of years.

Older daughters were very different... if anyone can explain to me how to avoid someone developing an eating disorder I'd be glad to know it.

At 22, eldest is nearly better, thank God. Picking through it together, we can't pin point any causal factors, though I'm very willing to put my hands up to anything.

School was intense, admiring an older sister with the same patterns, feeling anxious about exams, all these things contributed.

I used to try to encourage her to relax and go out more...

Other daughter also had difficult school days, took on EMO characteristics as a shorthand for me to describe, here, but she wouldn't have used that descriptor.

Totally fine now, at 21, happy, assertive, hard-working etc.

Not sure what I'm trying to contribute. Got to go to work now.
 

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Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
Another one with the eating disorders. Lothar II thinks he's overweight. We've all talked, gone to doctor's, done the counselling. Now he wants to go veggie - just before GCSE's. His nibs freaked out, with me in the middle. And that's before you add in lack of sleep - Lothar I & II, school bullying, exams, the state of his room, the trail of dirty crockery left everywhere.
I have a terrible urge to turn back the clock and enter a convent.
 

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Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
This is why I love the Ship.
I know it is a place where I can go & be sure of finding people who know what I'm going through and can offer such words of wisdom

 

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Posted by Melisande (# 4177) on :
 
Elder Daughter will be 12 next month. We are deep into the sulks and the eye-rolling and the inability to stand the very existence of parental interest in her day.

I'm just surprised by how hurtful I'm finding it, even though I know it is just the insanity phase, and I remember it fairly well myself. I suppose I can trust that somewhere deep down she appreciates that I care, even though she would rather die than express it.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Younger daughter entered teenagerhood at age 8. We seriously wondered if any of us would survive past her fourteenth birthday.

Happily, she improved once she left primary school and while she is "feisty" (for which read: doesn't take any shit from anyone) we all get on well enough.

Our youngest (of five) is 18 in June and there have been a grand total of exactly one (1) grounding. There could have been more, eg for unauthorised & excessive partying while mum & dad were away, but we usually took the easy way out and asked ourselves "What's worse? A grumpy teen in their room alone or out with friends".
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Mine is also 12 with eye-rolling and general crankiness. I figure it's a backhanded compliment--I never felt safe enough in my family to make a nuisance of myself that way.
 

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Posted by ecumaniac (# 376) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Mine is also 12 with eye-rolling and general crankiness. I figure it's a backhanded compliment--I never felt safe enough in my family to make a nuisance of myself that way.

---

This is totally true. I was perfectly behaved as a teen.

Now I live on the literal other side of the world and will only communicate with my parents via email.
 

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Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 
Gah. At a loss to know what to do with/about Opus 1. 12 years old, thinks she's depressed, is definitely very sad, but has a tendency to try and 'act' ill to get sympathy. Since reading about depression, she's been trying to show more of the signs, and I'm desperately trying to figure out where the line is between being supportive, and letting her indulge herself and thereby encouraging the downward spiral.

It's of course a lot more complicated than that, but I'm struggling to see how to help her, especially when she doesn't want to help herself...
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Is this behaviour continuous, or is it cyclical?

Just thinking back, at that age my menstrual cycle made me horribly depressed for a week a month - to the point where I learnt not to make any decisions in a premenstrual state because it was the time I'd storm out of things I liked doing, burning my bridges behind me. A few repetitions of crawling back a week later and grovelling helped the penny drop. And if it's that she really may not have much control over how bad she feels or any recognition that it's what is happening.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Beethoven

Is there something going on at school? Not quite sure how to put it but I can remember so seriously stupid behaviour went on at my all girls secondary school. We almost made it a competition to see who was the most depressed.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
You might want to take her to health care professional Beethoven and let them do an assessment.
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Beets, I will try to scan some information and email it to you if you can PM me your email address.
I think it's important to take it seriously, even though you are not sure how deep the depression actually goes. There is a lot of concern at present about mental health and wellbeing amongst children and young people.
First of all I would really recommend talking to your child's teacher to see whether this depression is something which manifests itself in all settings or just when she is needing a bit of extra attention from you.

There is a lovely set of books of which Starving the Stress Gremlin is one, and they give a Cognitive Behavioural Therapy approach in a really approachable and fun style which young teens can do alone or with their parents. I've not used the material but I've looked thoroughly at it and it looks really good. The image of feeding or starving a monster is a really effective one. By taking the depression seriously and offering to work with your daughter to battle against those gremlins will validate your respect for her needs, give her some of the attention she seeks but in a positive way rather than fuelling the depression (i.e teamwork rather than her getting you to worry about her), and will give her some resilience and self-help skills which will stand her in good stead throughout life.

The suggestion about consulting a mental health specialist is all well and good and would be the ideal, but sadly access to such specialists is incredibly hard to come by and is a long process, and in my experience can be of extremely mixed value.

As others have said, be aware of anything that might actually be on her mind and worrying her to make her feel insecure or anxious. Maybe find a job you can do together (talking is always easier if you're doing something together, makes it less intense) and open a conversation by saying about something which is worrying you or making you anxious (not her), maybe even asking her advice. She may open up, or she may not, but keeping those lines of communication open is vital, and it really helps if she begins to see you talking to her as a young grown-up-in-the-making rather than a child.

If she does talk, listen = sounds obvious, but more often than not we get tempted to interrupt, contradict, or even hear what we want/expect to hear instead of what they're actually saying. So let her talk, maybe paraphrase what she says and feed it back so that she knows you're listening and trying to understand fully what she's trying to express, give her time and don't force it. It's incredibly hard to do! Use "tell me a bit more" or " how does this make you feel?" or "How would you like me to help you?" rather than "I bet that made you angry" or "You need to do this". Again, incredibly hard to do and possibly even worth practising with someone else so that you overcome that urge to problem solve/nag/interpret/divert which is an inevitable product of being a parent!

Not sure whether any of that is helpful to you. One thing that is good to know is that you are not alone. I'm speaking as the parent of a teenager and also as the person responsible at my school of researching and gaining training in wellbeing/mental health for pupils of secondry school age. (Your daughter's school may just have someone with a similar remit - it's definitely worth asking).

Last but not least - what I have definitely learned is the importance of taking good care of my own mental health if I am to support my teenager. Make sure that's part of your approach to life! (And yes, I'm nagging.... precisely what I said not to do, but I know that often as parents this is an area we neglect)

Goodness, isn't this a long post! If you've read it, remember to PM me your email address. And good luck!
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Speaking from personal experience--it is possible to be very ill with depression and at the same time be making use of it to get attention or whatever. You don't want to ignore the first, serious bit--the actual illness--because you're concerned about the second bit--possible manipulation. That can be sorted out later, after she's well.

And just in case you're wondering about the early age--my first episode of major depression started age three, and was actively life-threatening at age seven. It can happen, and needs to be watched and taken seriously.
 

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Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 
Thanks all for the replies!

Curiosity killed... - there may be an element of hormones in it, but she's some way off menstrual things being a real issue (which is its own whole bunch of stress!)

Jengie Jon - I don't think there's any kind of 'trend' for this behaviour at school. There's definitely a school link, but I suspect if there's anything at all deliberate about it it's more along the lines of it being a way to be special.

Smudgie - many thanks for the detailed reply. I'll PM you my email address. I know the behaviour is showing at school, so will try and speak to her teacher soon. I'll have a look at the resources you've suggested, too. You're right about how hard it is to just listen; I know I'm not good at it, but will keep trying... We've talked about the importance of exercise, amongst other things. She'd like to run with me, and I'd like to get back to running, so I think it's time we stopped talking about it and actually put our trainers on! Except that of course we can't this evening or tomorrow... Maybe Friday! But when we do get out there, hopefully that will serve as both good time together, doing something positive, and an opportunity to talk in a non-threatening environment.

Lamb chopped - indeed. I know that although I wouldn't say I was depressed in my teens, I had a horrible time at school and was deeply unhappy for several years. I know age isn't a barrier to mental health matters, so I don't think that's one of my concerns about how 'real' this is. It's the difficulty over whether there's something truly worrying behind the attention bit which bothers me much more - and the concern that just giving the attention encourages the attention-grabbing behaviour... Hopefully we'll find the right way to be able to help her build positivity (is that even a word?! ).

I knew Shipmates would have a variety of suggestions, experiences, and ideas, so many thanks to you all. Keep us in your prayers!

[ 30. April 2014, 13:46: Message edited by: Beethoven ]
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
There are some excellent books about on Creative Listening - I'd particularly recommend one published in the 1980s by a Quaker woman I knew who was in child psychiatry - except I can't remember either her name or the name of the book but Quaker Book Centre would know if you gave them a call.
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I would still advocate seeking help from a health care professional. I would not worry as much about reinforcing the behaviour by giving it attention. If you have tried extinction and the behaviour hasn't gone away after a period of perhaps elevated behavior then there is most likely an underlying problem. Regardless a health care professional can be invaluable.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I don't have any suggestions Beets, but you both have my prayers.

My teenage years were horrible for both my mother and I.

Huia
 

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Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 
Quick update - without any dramatic change (hah!), things seem to have settled down a bit with Op 1. She's still not 'Happy', but the focus on Being Depressed seems to have eased off somewhat. We'll keep listening, and keep trying to support and encourage, and hopefully we'll all get through this!
 

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Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
Youngest is has been having counselling, is taking mild meds for anxiety, has self-harmed in the past - says she isn't at the moment, but is now apparently at risk of developing eating disorder.
I feel that no sooner is one set of issues sorted that she starts another. Part of me feels that there is a lot of attention seeking, in that once the attention (eg hospital/counselling) stops, something else will crop up.
I'm really not sure what I (or rather we, as my husband feels the same) can or should be doing.
Daughter won't (says she can't/doesn't want to) talk to us about this, so it seems that every time we see a specialist we find out more & feel complete failures because - around us - she seems most of the time to be ok.
Not really asking for advice, but I know how the good folk on the ship can put things into better perspective that I can achieve at the moment.
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
the Kat in the Hat : don't know if this will help or not, but hey...

I had a rubbish time as a teenager, nothing what so ever to do with home and everything to do with outside home. But, i just could not for the life of me find a way to talk with either of my parents about any of it.

After a difficult few years my mother regularly imported other adults into the home, not to talk with me, just to be around. That helped. A lot. Maybe building on the improvements, Mum then set about ensuring that i was talking with other adults, but not about me, on a regular basis.

So for me at that time how did it look?
There was a couple up the road who had a clutch of young children and it was obvious they needed help. I was going on to work with children so the fit was there. Those two women proved a rock to me and actually went on to provide my very first references.
A toy library in our nearby city was desperate for help and my mind was made up when i saw the brother of the woman who ran it! Again, that woman needed my help: i was there for one afternoon a week so they could take more families.
Quite a number of voluntary placements were added, often time limited, until i had a veritable social scene all of my own and somehow the problems mostly fell away.

When they threatened to come back i could take them to a specialist counsellor ; but otherwise i had plenty of attention from other adults who valued me for what i could bring to the table.

Hey. It helped me anyway. I do hope that together you find something that helps the situation you described..
 

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Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
To be fair to her, I can see why she would not want to talk to us. There is plenty in my past I wouldn't have been able to talk to my parents about. Not because I don't have a good relationship with them, but just because I felt sure it would upset them & there was nothing they could do to make it better. I'm fairly sure that is the same for her.
Doesn't make it easy though when we are asked "how are things going?" and we reply "They seem ok at the moment", then they tell us that things aren't with a look that seems to say "what rubbish parents you must be if she can't tell you what she is telling us"
I'm sure they are not really thinking that, but I wish they would give some indication that it is highly likely we don't know and that it is ok for us not to know!
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Bumping.

The North East no-longer-a-teen decided that it would make for some jolly mother and son quality time if he went through this thread, reading aloud everything I'd posted about him, and commenting.
 

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Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :
 
Perhaps it's given him some ideas for his next book!

Best wishes to Alex (?) on reaching his third decade.

John
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Beloved goddaughter (not quite a teen, but in full teen mode) is going through a difficult time. However, she regards me as uncool, and I've been getting the full eye-rolling, sighing treatment the last couple of times I've seen her.

I'm not sure how to deal with deliberate rudeness.

Although we're not related, her mother has named me as goddaughter's next-of-kin, so I feel I should keep trying to be nice, but I'm fed up with her at the moment. Life is busy, and I have plenty to do without creating time to see her, only for her to be rude.

On the other hand, I'm in awe of how capable she can be - her mother's health isn't great, and there are times when she's caring for her mother, shopping, cooking, organising their household. She's far more capable than my own two were at the same age.

She deserves to be spoiled a bit, and I'm willing to do my best, but whatever she wants, it isn't me. I get the impression that I'm an embarrassment.

Suggestions?
 

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Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
Sounds like the eye-rolling might come directly from having to cope with too much at her age. Perhaps you could sit with her mother of a evening and let her go off to do whatever teenage things she needs to do (what you might think of that need is irrelevant)
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Her mother's health issues are intermittent, she isn't tied to the house of an evening. However, there aren't many "cool" activities for teenagers to do locally. (She doesn't want to go to Guides / Scouts / church youth group etc).

She and I seem to be going round in circles - she wants what she can't have, and she doesn't want what she can have.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Although, you're right, she has had to cope with far too much at too early an age.
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
This isn't a mother speaking, but it worked for me as a teacher - different relationship, I know, but it might help.

The best way I found of dealing with 'attitude' was to externalise it - to put a name what the teenager is doing. So pick a time when both of you are fairly calm anyway, and if she does the eye-rolling thing, try saying gently: You might not be aware of this, but see when you roll your eyes like that - it comes across as really rude. Do you mean to be rude, or did you not realise?

You'll probably get mumble mumble or flounce in reply. But you'll have named the thing anyway. So thereafter, whenever the eyes roll, point it out what she's doing, but make it into a little joke. Oops! There go the eyes again! And give her a grin, and say, Now tell me what's bothering you.

Good luck.

[ 19. November 2014, 12:17: Message edited by: Cottontail ]
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
As an instructor, I often find that naming behaviour is the first step in discussing and addressing it.
 

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Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Life is busy, and I have plenty to do without creating time to see her, only for her to be rude.

....

She deserves to be spoiled a bit, and I'm willing to do my best, but whatever she wants, it isn't me. I get the impression that I'm an embarrassment.

Suggestions?

---

Thinking aloud, which may be way off the mark ... could you say some of this to her? - i.e. tell her that you will always be around if she needs you and she can always get in touch if she wants to spend more *quality* time with you, but that you don't think either of you are enjoying each other's company much at the moment and you're not enthused about spending masses of time with her while she's being stroppy and rude so will cut down a bit for now? (I think she definitely does need you, as I know there've been discussions about what would happen if her mum were to die although this isn't imminent. My impression is that it would be damaging for her for you to drop all one-to-one time with her, but e.g. if you see her one-to-one on a weekly basis at present could you drop that to fortnightly and see how it goes?)
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
This is probably a bad idea, but ... what about printing out some of this thread and handing it over? At the very least that gets across the idea that you're honestly concerned and not sure what to do, plus that you care. It also forces her to see you as a human being rather than a stand-up cardboard character in the drama of her life. (I'm pretty sure when I was a teen that I thought of most adults this way--as people (?) who would be totally unaffected by my behavior because, er, they weren't real people. Sort of like how five-year-olds are so surprised to meet their kindergarten teacher in the grocery store, because we all know they only exist at school.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Originally posted by Zoey:

quote:

---

I think she definitely does need you, as I know there've been discussions about what would happen if her mum were to die although this isn't imminent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
I'm not spending much "quality time" with her at the moment, because she doesn't want to. Or rather, she suggests something, I agree, she changes her mind.

---

quote:

---

Is there any faint chance that she could be testing you?--As in, I want to know if NEQ is really going to be there for me in spite of my general annoyingness, for the long haul?

---

That has occurred to me.

But mostly, it's as if she has a distorted idea that life is perfect for "everybody else" "Everybody else's" parents have the fairytale happy-ever-after marriage, but she's stuck with a mother whose health is poor and a godmother stepping in now and then.

I wonder if having a godmother when she actually wants the sort of nuclear family you seen in gravy adverts feels like getting coal in her stocking at Christmas?

Her: I want to go to Disneyland, Florida. Everybody else at school has been to Disneyland, Florida.

Me: I can't take you to Florida. But I could take you to the new leisure pool with the flumes, and then your favourite Chinese buffet for lunch afterwards.

Her: *sighs heavily* Goes off in a sulk.

Now, I can see that if you are yearning for Florida, then an offer of a trip to the swimming pool and lunch must seem quite rubbish. But most kids haven't been to Florida, and most kids would would, I think, regard an offer of a swim and lunch as a decent offer.
 

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Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on :
 
She just sounds like a typical young teen to me. I cannot tell you how many times I did the same thing to my parents, it is a wonder any of us came through.
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Sounds like a typical teen to me, too. When my boy does the eye-rolling routine, I make it into a joke . "Hey, you're doing that thing with the eyes again that only teenagers can do..... do it again, it's so cooooooool."
"Ooops, there go the eyes, again"... "ooh, and again. Proof you really are a teenager".

I think part of the thing is that kids want to know you're there for them but don't actually a)want to admit it or b)actually want commit time to spend with an older person when there's a chance a "better offer" might come along... even when there isn't. (And I don't mean that offensively, but we all know that it's cooler to do things with people your own age at that age - emphasising that you're no longer a child who does everything with an adult and yet not yet a boring old grown up yourself).

Perhaps you could go along the line of "I know you maybe have more teenagery things to do these days but I miss spending time with you and would like to get to know you as a young adult instead of a child. Is there anything you'd like to do together? My budget's not immense, but I'm sure we could find something if you'd like to sometime when you've got nothing else on."
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:

But mostly, it's as if she has a distorted idea that life is perfect for "everybody else" "Everybody else's" parents have the fairytale happy-ever-after marriage, but she's stuck with a mother whose health is poor and a godmother stepping in now and then.

I wonder if having a godmother when she actually wants the sort of nuclear family you seen in gravy adverts feels like getting coal in her stocking at Christmas?

---

Ooh, that one stinks. I've been going through it with my son for the past two-three years, because everybody else has:
younger parents,
richer parents,
TV and iPhones instead of books and an antique Steinway piano,
takeout food instead of Asian cooking,
trips to Disney World instead of Grandma's house in boring old Southern California ( ).

It's only recently that he's come to realize that he's also missing out on:
domestic violence,
the loss of a parent to death or divorce,
constant moves cross country,
dangerous neighborhoods,
severe family illnesses.

Unlike many of his friends.

I told him all that, of course. But it wasn't until he got a little older that he really started to get the point. (And until he got actual "you are there" experience with other kids' lives who DO have those problems--at which point I think he decided it was better to live with his own burdens than to pick up someone else's.)
 

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