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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Desmond Tutu's 'forgiveness challenge'
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nouwen
Shipmate
# 3103
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Posted
Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere on the ship, but couldn't find it if it has.
At Greenbelt this year, I heard Archbishop Desmond Tutu's daughter (Mpho Tutu) speak about forgiveness. She explained that she and her father had set up a 30 day forgiveness challenge for people to work through at their own pace. See www.forgivenesschallenge.com
Now having just got to day 9, I have to admit that this is one of the hardest things I have done in a very long while. Is anybody else doing this challenge and if so, I would love to hear how you are getting on. If you've not heard it then have a look because it really is very good.
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Speaking the truth is not the same as being negative.
Posts: 477 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I have to say, it is refreshing to hear of something being 'hard' or difficult ... we largely seem to have embraced a pretty cost-less form of Christianity ... so something that takes effort sounds something of a novelty these days ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Chocoholic
Shipmate
# 4655
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Posted
I'm doing this too, but am not great about doing it every day so an on day 5. I think I am about to enter the bit that gets harder.
I have the book too but haven't really read much of it as it needs more attention than I tend to have span for in the evenings. I might try and read some this weekend though.
I'm having some tech issues with the forums too but wonder if it is an ipad issue only.
Posts: 773 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I signed up for this and immediately ran into technical difficulties. A reboot cured the technical problems, but while they continued I wasn't able to load any of the video clips and the site kept flickering on a constant reload. Is that what you got? Also, the fields where you enter your login details are so pale as to be virtually non-existent and difficult to find, though that may just be my browser.
I do dislike sites that rely on video clips and don't provide text alternatives, as I can't always load them and they eat into my monthly data allowance. However I'll continue as it looks interesting and is food for thought, so I'll see how it goes.
[ 06. September 2014, 07:15: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Polly Plummer
Shipmate
# 13354
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Posted
This sounds like a good thing to do for Lent - or, not to procrastinate too much, for Advent.
Posts: 577 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Nouwen, thanks for this. The website won't load on my dial-up connection, but the book is available to download for my kindle for $10 (USA). ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Polly - Advent is far too far away, but it's the start of spring here so new beginnings are seasonal, even if not liturgically so ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Chocoholic
Shipmate
# 4655
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Posted
The text boxes are ok on my ipad, and the videos/sound files are working ok but if I try to get on the forums it just takes me back to the sign up page. I wonder if it is better on some OS than others? I've not tried it on my PC as it's very slow so I almost don't use it these days.
ETA the forums don't seem very active though. I get kicked out when I try to go into them but can see the front page.
[ 06. September 2014, 09:45: Message edited by: Chocoholic ]
Posts: 773 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
nouwen, thanks for sharing this. I've signed up. I haven't tried to get on the forums or anything else. Just done the first exercise.
It works fine on my ipad.
ETA, I'm not going to put my deeply private thoughts online though on the website no matter how much they assure me it is totally private! ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
[ 06. September 2014, 10:57: Message edited by: Thyme ]
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I've kept some of mine back as well. It is the internet, after all.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chocoholic:
The text boxes are ok on my ipad, and the videos/sound files are working ok but if I try to get on the forums it just takes me back to the sign up page. I wonder if it is better on some OS than others? I've not tried it on my PC as it's very slow so I almost don't use it these days.
ETA the forums don't seem very active though. I get kicked out when I try to go into them but can see the front page.
The forums work ok for me on my laptop, (windows 8.1) I haven't tried to post. I'll try them on my ipad later.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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nouwen
Shipmate
# 3103
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Posted
I also had some technical problems with the boxes appearing too light, however I deliberately got the answers wrong, which showed the boxes up in a brighter colour!! I'm sure there is a sermon in their somewhere ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Although I am on day 9, I've been at the point for the last week and there is no pressure to proceed. I also don't upload everything either, and speak in code which only I would understand if ever the gremlins got hold of it.
Some of the readings and film clips have been really moving e.g. the prayer before the prayer. I cried buckets after reading this as it could be translated into so many areas of faith where I might struggle with, irrespective of the question of forgiveness.
Go on, give it a go..... : ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Speaking the truth is not the same as being negative.
Posts: 477 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jul 2002
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nouwen
Shipmate
# 3103
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Posted
Sorry, forgot to say in my last post...
have a look at the discussion boards on each of the days, because like this good ship, people's postings are rich, insightful and dispel with the thought that "I'm the only one...".
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Speaking the truth is not the same as being negative.
Posts: 477 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jul 2002
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
I did this, although I didn't finish it. It was originally for the specific month of May - that was the forgiveness month, and there was a start date, and you got the emails on each day of that month, and the challenges only got published on their specific day. Although at the end of the month, I got an email saying it didn't matter that I hadn't finished, and that lots of people were taking longer. I like that they've now extended it so it can be done at any time.
I posted about it on FB, and it sparked some interesting discussions, particularly about the meaning of forgiveness, and what it does and doesn't entail, and a few of my friends decided to do it too. I thought it was a really good challenge, and that the meaning of forgiveness is explored in an insightful way. For me personally, I'd already worked through forgiveness issues in my life in great detail years ago, so it wasn't new information for me, but it was good to be reminded, because I find for me it's something that needs to be refreshed. And it made me happy to see such a positive challenge, which tackles difficult issues and gives a positive alternative to hatred and bitterness.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It's not an easy site to load, possibly because it doesn't work well with ageing computers. I have to load it before I load anything else - FB or games will knock out the sound on the video clips, if they can be persuaded to load at all. I do find the format irritating in that it's so dependent on these with no alternative.
Haven't got past day 3 but will try to catch up later on.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
What does the actual challenge involve - is like a twelve step program or something, what sort of tasks do you undertake ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Chocoholic
Shipmate
# 4655
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Posted
I've not got that far with it as I'm not doing it every day but so far there have been either something to read, a video to watch or sound bite to listen to then something to think about and write down on an online journal eg who needs your forgiveness and vice versa, what barriers are there to forgiveness. Some are really quick so I do sometimes do 2 in a day.
Posts: 773 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Does anyone know how Mpho is pronounced? I have no experiemce of African names.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Going by a song I tried to learn a while back, I would guess
m-FO, with the "m" barely voiced and the "f" very soft.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
What does the actual challenge involve - is like a twelve step program or something, what sort of tasks do you undertake ?
There are small writing tasks to do each day, in addition to watching a video or listening to an audio about forgiveness - often poems to listen to, and discussions about what forgiveness is and isn't. The tasks are things like thinking about how you feel when you have forgiven someone and how you feel when you haven't, and thinking of people you would like to forgive. Because it's only 30 days, and some people might have really deep issues that need professional help, you are advised to think of a fairly small thing to forgive. You have to write about the incident - what happened. Then you write about how it made you feel. I didn't complete the thirty days, so I don't know the whole thing, but there are various steps, and the site does list them. There is a grieving process, for instance. It seems quite structured.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
I've found it very helpful and well thought out.
I'm not good at writing in this way and I haven't done that but I have done a lot of thinking.
The short prayers and videos by Desmond and Mpho Tutu are very appealing.
Nothing is compulsory, you go at your own pace and take up or leave their suggestions as you wish.
So far I am up to day eight.
It seems very simple but goes very deep and because it isn't over complicated and intellectualised I find the thoughts stay with me during the day.
I think it is a very good thing.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Is anyone still doing this? I'm almost halfway through now (Day 14) and am amazed at how helpful it is. Others have said they find it difficult; I haven't, but that's not because I find forgiving easy (far from it) but because I can verbalise my feelings fairly easily. For my "test case" I've picked someone who used to be a close friend but we've drifted apart for all sorts of reasons, and I'm surprised at how my feelings towards him have eased. The Tutus advise you not to try with anyone who has devastated you, and state you may need professional help for something really big, but for a medium sized niggle this does work well.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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