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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: World's worst "pastor"
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
So Baptist pastor Juan McFarland in Alabama, who led his church for more than 20 years, got up into the pulpit to reveal the following to his congregation:
1. he's been using drugs
2. he misused church funds
3. he's been having affairs, including with members of the church
4. he contracted HIV more than 10 years ago and now has AIDS
5. he knew he had AIDS when he engaged in these affairs
And when the deacons voted 80-1 to remove him (was the 1 his brother or something?) - he refused to leave his position as lead pastor and insisted on maintaining control of the church, including preaching and financial oversight. The church had to sue to get him out, which an Alabama court has just approved.
Of all of the arrogant, delusional Christian ministers this guy must be near the top of the list. What an absolute sicko. Most pastors like this have the good sense to resign or take a leave of absence at the very least. He stood up and preached about healing after confessing. I hope he's praying for healing for the women in his church that he may have passed HIV onto. Actually scratch that - I hope he's not. Someone else needs to pray for these ladies and any other victims of this man.
The sad thing is that in Alabama having sex knowing you have an STI is only a misdemeanor so he may not face much punishment.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I think "worst" is a heavily contested category, but he is a contender. Proof that the sense of entitlement and untouchability is not denominational.
What I cannot see in this article, or anywhere else I have seen it, is his explanation for his actions, and why he thinks his behaviour is acceptable. He appears to think he is divinely appointed and so above normal petty rules and regulations.
I also wonder whether there were not clues to be seen, and why anyone would continue to attend after such revelations.
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I also wonder ..... why anyone would continue to attend after such revelations.
Because they're really really stupid. Incapable of rational thought or self-determination. Brainwashed into compliance. But mostly stupid.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
Do you come to that conclusion from other information about this situation? From the article linked in the OP it seems that most of those who attended his latest service were sightseers and not members of the church. It also says that the pastor has changed the locks and switched the bank accounts to his name, so clearly not all of the congregation are going to just leave without a backward glance.
There is mention of him having "a few supporters", but that is all.
This article doesn't support the idea that the church members in general are stupid and have been brainwashed - or, indeed, that they are in any way accepting his leadership.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
I read several news items on the case before posting, including the reports about their previous pastor, one Darrell Gilyard, and his return to pastorship in the same area despite his being a registered sex offender, in order to boost the weekly takings at the church. ffs. Supporting one sex offender as a pastor might be seen as unlucky, but supporting another as his successor comes across as pretty stupid in my opinion. Levels of naieveté must be pretty high around there.
Incidentally, I see that national and international opprobrium levelled at the individual concerned has now led to him exiting stage left, so to speak. I hope that the local congregation are a little more careful about who they choose to give (and entrust) their money to in the future. Their attorney stated that : quote:
A lot of members are intimidated. He has run that church like a dictator over the years
which sounds pretty stupid to me.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
They only had one signatory for bank business? And the bank was happy with that?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
It certainly seems very odd that McFarland could single-handedly transfer the bank-accounts into his own name.
As Passer says, some pastors in the region seem to have developed almost a "cult" status, whereby some in their congregations will forgive them absolutely anything.
Bearing in mind the level of hatred usually reserved for sex-offenders, it beggars belief that the other bloke's congregation is prepared to welcome him back, even to the extent of having to make sure that the children in the congregation worship in a separate building.
Maybe he's putting some kind of love-potion in the post-church coffee ... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Some criticise Spiritual Giftings but some apostleship to counter that of preaching wouldn't be amiss. It looks like there were deacons but what the heck had they been doing?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
It isn't for nothing that pastor means shepherd, and his flock is likened to sheep.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
How many other churches have more than 80 deacons?
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carex:
How many other churches have more than 80 deacons?
No wonder they can't make a decision. That's like a synod, and we know how slow they can be to take action.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I also wonder ..... why anyone would continue to attend after such revelations.
Because they're really really stupid. Incapable of rational thought or self-determination. Brainwashed into compliance. But mostly stupid.
The point I'd like to make may not apply to this situation. But it is possible that within even a badly flawed congregation some - whether the flaws are obvious or not - people have found valuable fellowship with each other, important social or spiritual connections. Even felt the power of God in their friendships and worship despite the moral bankruptcy of the heirarchy. It is sometimes, despite everything, hard to walk away from friends, habits, and an environment that might occasionally have been a blessing.
All of which, is not to say that the sensible thing mightn't be to walk away.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
They only had one signatory for bank business? And the bank was happy with that?
Exactly. How the hell did a bank allow somene to empty a church bank account?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I also wonder ..... why anyone would continue to attend after such revelations.
Because they're really really stupid. Incapable of rational thought or self-determination. Brainwashed into compliance. But mostly stupid.
The point I'd like to make may not apply to this situation. But it is possible that within even a badly flawed congregation some - whether the flaws are obvious or not - people have found valuable fellowship with each other, important social or spiritual connections. Even felt the power of God in their friendships and worship despite the moral bankruptcy of the heirarchy. It is sometimes, despite everything, hard to walk away from friends, habits, and an environment that might occasionally have been a blessing.
All of which, is not to say that the sensible thing mightn't be to walk away.
Absolutely, but if there is something corrupt at the heart, it is broken. Maybe many people did, and these are those who are left.
However, he was having affairs with members of the congregation - that is surely an indication of something broken? Surely some of the others knew about it?
Yes it is hard to walk away (I know, I did it). But there comes a point when it is obviously the only thing to do.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There are sheep that simply insist on being sheared.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There are sheep that simply insist on being sheared.
"Fleeced" was the term that came to mine...
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
That isn't the only thing that happens to sheep.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
That isn't the only thing that happens to sheep.
In Alabama, maybe.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
Some things you can't easily spot in a bad pastor: adultery for one unless he/she chooses the next victim with little care and who subsequently reveals the deception when they're dropped for the next model. IME the perpetrators are pretty clued up on who/when to target - their problem is almost always serial.
Some things you can spot: it's when there's little or no accountability and the pastor rides roughshod over the (reasonable) views of others citing scripture in his defence. Cliquey leadership with often relatives involved. Records and decisions are not published and the churches often have little to do with other fellowships - citing others' apostasy.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
That isn't the only thing that happens to sheep.
Oh, you've lived in Devon too
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
They only had one signatory for bank business? And the bank was happy with that?
Exactly. How the hell did a bank allow somene to empty a church bank account?
Well now. I was the joint signatory of a charity account at a major UK bank for about 6 years. It was only when I retired my treasurerly duties (aka foisted them on some other poor schmuck) did we discover that my signature-on-file was a duplicate of the other signatory's, and they hadn't bothered checking for all those years.
It makes you wonder what else they don't bother checking. (Actually I know some of the answers to that, too, but won't divulge them here.)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
He went out of his way to admit to these sins when he could have kept his mouth shut, so perhaps he thought it would be a good opportunity for the congregation to exercise the gift of forgiveness. If so, he clearly miscalculated the outcome of his revelations.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
Passer, the SBC isn't very different from the boringly mainline Baptist Union of Great Britain in that. BUGB does have a process of accreditation, but individual congregations are under no obligation to call an accredited minister. Statistics are hard to come by, but anecdotally a fair few BUGB churches aren't terribly bothered about lack of accreditation. Yet from what I've seen / heard BUGB clergy are no more or less likely to screw up than clergy in any other denomination.
[ 19. October 2014, 18:32: Message edited by: Yerevan ]
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
He went out of his way to admit to these sins when he could have kept his mouth shut, so perhaps he thought it would be a good opportunity for the congregation to exercise the gift of forgiveness. If so, he clearly miscalculated the outcome of his revelations.
But similar to the whole Mark Driscoll fiasco, a minister needs to understand the difference between "We forgive you and still accept you as a brother/sister in Christ" and "You get to retain your role as pastor or elder." There are qualifications for the latter and someone having affairs inside of the church building and wilfully attempting to transmit a dangerous disease fails the basic test.
There's a willingness up to a point to repent - the public admission of sin and wrongdoing - but then a desire to remain in charge of the church. Would we allow a senior manager in any other job - business, education, government - stay on after admitting such malfeasance? But for some reason because Christians are meant to forgive, ministers think they can do anything they want and keep their role (with perks - Rev. McFarland had a Mercedes-Benz paid for by the church).
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yerevan:
Passer, the SBC isn't very different from the boringly mainline Baptist Union of Great Britain in that. BUGB does have a process of accreditation, but individual congregations are under no obligation to call an accredited minister. Statistics are hard to come by, but anecdotally a fair few BUGB churches aren't terribly bothered about lack of accreditation. Yet from what I've seen / heard BUGB clergy are no more or less likely to screw up than clergy in any other denomination.
My experience (anecdotal and otherwise) is that BUGB churches are much more attuned to wider accountability these days and there are considerably fewer non accredited ministers than there once were.
Yes BUGB clergy do mess up: there are some great people who won't ever be recognised and there are those who aren't good pastors who have yet to be found out. There are perhaps more controls over money (few ministers are daft enough to get involved with the finances) and Baptist ecclesiology (in its purest form) will limit abuses of ministerial power: the sad fact remains that most Baptist failures are those of the sexual variety and there's little chance of identifying the likelihood of any one person falling in this way prior to ordination.
All in all - like most denominations - many really good people, a few average but also sadly a few chancers and a few just not suited.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Most BUGB churches have a clause within their Trust Deeds which stipulates that they must call an Accredited Minister or seek a "waiver" from their denominational Trust Corporation.
Such a waiver is usually (I believe) given more-or-less automatically as the Trust Corporations will rarely go against the decision of a properly constituted Church Members' Meeting. Nevertheless, if they are unsure about a Minister they could at least issue a caution to a church against calling them. Regional Ministers will do the same.
I did know a church which called a very plausible non-accredited Minister - I certainly thought he was a good 'un. But he turned out to have a "split personality" and was involved in some very naughty stuff; he was summarily sacked. Strangely enough, the next Minister happened to have the same surname although he was no relation, and some folk were wary of calling him solely for that reason!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
With this case, and others like them, you're simply looking at the same ol' power corrupts bit. Not everyone thankfully, but there's a strong element who secretly see Christian sheep as something to be shafted. Maybe these individuals are religiously motivated, who knows? What is clear is the sheer arrogance at having sold out to their darkside.
Standing up in front of your congregation and admitting to that type of stuff is quite honestly taking the fuckin piss and nothing else.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Some commentators say that the pedestal that the clergy are put on can lead to problems. Male clergy receive a lot of attention and admiration from some of the female members of their flock, and in situations of stress inappropriate sexual relationships sometimes occur.
It's been implied that, for some ministers, the risk of falling into this kind of behaviour is one of the unfortunate side-effects of the clergy-laity divide. A controversial idea, no doubt.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Some commentators say that the pedestal that the clergy are put on can lead to problems. Male clergy receive a lot of attention and admiration from some of the female members of their flock, and in situations of stress inappropriate sexual relationships sometimes occur.
It's been implied that, for some ministers, the risk of falling into this kind of behaviour is one of the unfortunate side-effects of the clergy-laity divide. A controversial idea, no doubt.
Controversial indeed - not least in regards to what this means about the preference in many churches to limit ministry roles to men.
Are there any stories of female pastors/priests who fell into the same sorts of temptations we've seen among male clergy?
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Would Aimee Semple McPherson possibly fit the bill?
(Sounds a bit like Agatha Christie's vanishing trick which took place a few months later).
[ 21. October 2014, 08:34: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
[QUOTE]Are there any stories of female pastors/priests who fell into the same sorts of temptations we've seen among male clergy?
Yes - although they seem to be the thing we'd rather not admit to. They happen/have happened just the same - although IME it tends to involve power issues (bullying). I'm personally aware of several like that but only one involving sexual impropriety which was hushed up.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Some commentators say that the pedestal that the clergy are put on can lead to problems. <SNIP>
It's been implied that, for some ministers, the risk of falling into this kind of behaviour is one of the unfortunate side-effects of the clergy-laity divide. A controversial idea, no doubt.
There are two extremes. Clergy are either put on a pedestal and treated like Gods OR clergy are treated like crap to "keep them humble". Neither is healthy. What you want is congregations who realise that clergy people, work with the checks and balances that exist and want to get things done.
The other thing that makes situations like this more complicated is the amount of emotional investment that someone puts into their relationship with the clergy, the church and that community. That can make it very hard to break away - even when there has been a very serious failure on behalf of the leadership. It can also make reporting things to the authorities very difficult. As well as finding people who are willing to testify.
Tubbs
[ 21. October 2014, 11:53: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Some commentators say that the pedestal that the clergy are put on can lead to problems. Male clergy receive a lot of attention and admiration from some of the female members of their flock, and in situations of stress inappropriate sexual relationships sometimes occur.
This could be seen as a milder version of that which has occurred in cults. The most extreme example in recent times being Waco. Koresh had his followers spellbound and exercised control, yet even there it could be argued that it was a two way thing.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
[QUOTE]It can also make reporting things to the authorities very difficult. As well as finding people who are willing to testify.
Agreed ...but bear in mind that there are
- also spurious or malicious reports of such things
- even when reported and found to be true, it doesn't always become public knowledge. In many cases this is for very good reasons - there are other (and totally innocent) parties involved such as spouses and children
Agreed - there are times when it's hushed up for the most inappropriate reasons. The worst case I've come across personally is a minister who moved across 3 mainline (note!) denominations in the uk being recognised in leadership roles, perpetrating abuse on vulnerable women.
The first two failed to keep records and gave references which allowed him to continue. I still can't understand how this didn't hit the press - the third and final denomination realised I think what it would all look like for some very very senior people in the cold light of day and pulled won the hatches.
[ 22. October 2014, 07:04: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
The other thing that makes situations like this more complicated is the amount of emotional investment that someone puts into their relationship with the clergy, the church and that community. That can make it very hard to break away - even when there has been a very serious failure on behalf of the leadership. It can also make reporting things to the authorities very difficult. As well as finding people who are willing to testify.
Tubbs
I suppose this is one of the problems with the 'church as family' idea. Many people are reluctant to condemn members of their own families, especially if it's a case of condemning the figurehead of the family.
It's also difficult to argue that people should reduce their emotional investment in the church without also accepting that for most Christians this will mean reducing the frequency of churchgoing and/or their willingness to support the church with their time and money. IME many churches are desperate for a greater engagement from their members, not less.
I think, too, that for many people church provides important opportunities for social interaction and a feeling of being needed that they might not, for whatever reason, be able to access elsewhere. Telling these people that they're too involved in church life seems cruel and, frankly, counterproductive for the church.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
How the hell did a bank allow somene to empty a church bank account?
Well now. I was the joint signatory of a charity account at a major UK bank for about 6 years. .. my signature-on-file was a duplicate of the other signatory's, and they hadn't bothered checking for all those years.
I've had checks clear that I forgot to sign. An auditor told me when you throw a check away (because you mis-wrote it or something) you should tear out the signature area or someone might find and cash it; writing "void" is not enough to prevent it being cashed, you have to damage the check so the machine kicks it out.
So I'm not surprised no one checked the signatures on file.
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
...he refused to leave his position as lead pastor and insisted on maintaining control of the church, including preaching and financial oversight. The church had to sue to get him out, which an Alabama court has just approved.
Been there, TEC, my Mom's church, a clergy guy stopped doing any work, showed up only Sunday morning and read a sermon out of a book. Vestry finally fired him (took a couple years for them to get annoyed enough to take action), he refused to leave, said it's his church (the church was built 100 years before he came). I think he's the one went to court to demand his pay continue. Court looked at the church's legal organization paperwork, vestry has right to hire and fire, you are out.
I've seen it more often in non-denominationals, but it can happen in mainline denominational churches too.
From what I've seen, most vestry/boards of elders are conflict avoiders, if only because they have full time jobs and families and don't want their position on the board to take up a lot more time than planned.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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