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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Mental illness and leaving the church
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Potoroo
Shipmate
# 13466
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Posted
A big part of my 'falling away' from God and religion was the fact that I 'fell into' mental illness. I had a 3-year nervous breakdown, which means severe depression to the point of not functioning. I spent those 3 years mostly in bed. The church did not deal with this well, and effectively drove me away.
When I was desperately ill, and losing my faith, I was told by the elders they wouldn't help me as I wasn't "trusting in God." (I belonged to a medium-sized, moderately charismatic Vineyard church.) I spent over a year being intensely suicidal, and the rest of that 3-year period I was just sometimes suicidal.
During that time, I was begging every Christian I knew for help. I struggled mightily to get to church sometimes, only to be ignored – people (even people I thought were my friends) wouldn't even pray with/for me. When they did pray, it was the 'rebuking' type of prayer - e.g. "let this person turn back to you, God, and choose the right path". I had never turned away!
I couldn't feel God at all. I did everything I could to try to find him. I even went to extremes and had (very mild and controlled) 'deliverance', I rebuked 'generational curses', I repented of every slightest little thing, real or imaginary. I searched and searched the Bible, and prayed and prayed. None of this changed anything. This was my critical time of need, in fact my life was on the line, and what did I have? No God, and no Christian support at all. I don't consider the little bits of ministry given to me as support of me, but rather the opposite – a breaking down of me. I had to beg for what I did get, and they didn't care about me as a person at all, just about getting rid of what they saw as demonic.
I literally don't know how I survived.
98% of my Christian friends dumped me, with no explanation, as I have mentioned elsewhere. However, my atheist friends rang, came by with care packages, listened to me, were there for me. Solidly, for 3 whole years and more. They had no agenda, other than loving me. This had a huge impact on me.
Needless to say, I now no longer self-identify as a Christian. This decision was not taken lightly. It took years and years of begging God to help me, of searching for him with every fibre of my being. For no response - worse than no response actually, a hostile response. I still believe God is there, I just want nothing more to do with him.
And I am very, very happy to be secular now.
I am aware that this post might be confronting to some Christians. Please remember it was just my experience of Christianity. However, I believe this sort of thing needs to be heard. I feel strongly that the church handling mental illness wrongly can have a huge impact and can turn people away from God.
Is there anyone else who would like to discuss this issue? Maybe some people who have left the church or their faith because of it?
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Gilbert's Potoroo is Australia's most endangered animal.
Posts: 2778 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2008
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Dear Potoroo
I am so, so sad to hear that this happened to you and I have no words, except to say I'm sorry.
It can happen with physical sickness too. A dear friend of mine was very involved with her church and then got ill and has been ill for more than 15 years. When she didn't get better it was like she became a bit of an embarrassment to everyone and as she was too ill to go to church, she in effect left because no-one came to see her. She is still a Christian but many people shake their heads and say what a shame she's no longer involved like she used to be....it makes my blood boil....long term relationship with those who are suffering (regardless of their faith position) appears to be beyond the scope of many of us in churches.
And it really sucks.
And I'm truly sorry.
MrsBeaky
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
FWIW I have seen religious interpretation of mental illness do terrible damage, whether that be telling people they are ill because they have not prayed hard enough or lack faith, or misguided attempts at exorcism, or reinterpreting mania as speaking in tongues. (I note that the individuals concerned identified these experieces as painful and unhelpful, not solely my opinion.). I don't think you are alone in this.
Conversely, I have seen some faith communities be supportive. But I have never met anyone who has had a good experiece being the recipient of deliverance/exorcism ministry.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
I have some understanding of how painful this could be.
Some years ago a crisis in a chronic condition left me feeling extremely scared that treatment for the problem would not work and I would be left with a significant disability. I was overwhelmingly sad. This went on for about 2 years, treatment for the physical problem that made no noticeable difference weekly or fortnightly. I was still able to function but most mornings I was disappointed that I had woken up.
This coincided with a new minister at my MOTR church who was into spiritual healing and casting out demons. As he preached about physical illness being caused by unresolved sin in your life or satanic oppression blah blah, I sat there knowing my underlying condition that I'd developed in infancy was incurable and deteriorating and the immediate complication was serious. What really upset me was that so few people spoke out against this nonsense. I remain forever grateful to the student minister who stood up and talked about his father being totally incapacitated by motor neurone disease and yet still being assured and confident of God's love and that he was God's.
I also happened to work for a church institution at the time and they couldn't have been more supportive and loving.
I felt frustrated and all sorts of things towards God that I wasn't being healed-despite all the best scientific treatment (and prior prevention actually) that was supposed to work.
What saved me turning my back on God was that there were Godly people who were supportive but mainly I knew (and this is a subjective, personal knowing) that the false prophets and "miserable comforters" were just that-misguided and dangerous and I was determined to stand against their BS, even though at times, just between me and God, I feared I was going to succumb to Job's wife's entreaty to "curse God and die". I did leave that particular congregation when the pain of belonging exceeded the pain of not belonging, but in the long term my faith was strengthened rather than diminished.
This is just my personal experience, I know there are dangerous Christians out there, who assume a lot of simplistic nonsense, particularly about mental health. I do know that my mainstream denomination has trained its Ministers and to some extent its parishioners to understand that mental illness needs professional care and that we should seek to walk alongside and not to believe that Christians can't become depressed or to imply that mental health problems mean you have turned away from God.
I say this not to diminish anybody else's experience but just to share my own experience of leaving a church because of illness, although for me it was the heresy (for want of a better word) rather than my illness that made me leave.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Potoroo
Shipmate
# 13466
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Posted
Wow. Thank you for your kind and very sobering responses.
I am really sorry to hear about your friend and how she has been treated, MrsBeaky. I think you're right about becoming an "embarrassment", unfortunately.
Evangeline, I found this very encouraging:
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
I do know that my mainstream denomination has trained its Ministers and to some extent its parishioners to understand that mental illness needs professional care and that we should seek to walk alongside and not to believe that Christians can't become depressed or to imply that mental health problems mean you have turned away from God.
You said your treatment was making no noticeable difference...were you left with a disability? (No need to share if you'd rather not.)
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Gilbert's Potoroo is Australia's most endangered animal.
Posts: 2778 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2008
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
No ongoing disability, thanks be to God. Treatment worked but I had no way of being sure of that at the time, by keeping normal vision in one eye and it stopped anything more going on in the blind eye "behind the scenes" but that eye remained unable to tell light from dark until an operation restored the sight in that eye.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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TallPoppy
Shipmate
# 16294
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Posted
Insightful and compassionate posts. Thank you.
And a really valuable thread to have initiated, Potoroo.
This whole board has provided an excellent forum for intelligent and kindly conversation about some really significant and difficult issues. Thanks SC.
TallPoppy
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Papaver exaltatum
"Love comforteth like sunshine after rain"
Posts: 2389 | From: Southern England | Registered: Mar 2011
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
Potoroo and all who have suffered or still suffer like this:
Thank you for feeling able to share your stories which are most moving and ..... I risk getting patronising so will stop.
'Walking alongside' I like - and that seems a positive thing to do.
Not minimising anyone's experience I found this of significance and it suggests a way forward for some quote:
What really upset me was that so few people spoke out against this nonsense (preaching).
Evangeline: it's good to hear that some take this seriously to the extent that ministers / parishioners are trained.
Lighting a candle, as I said elsewhere, for me has no Christian meaning (but is a spiritual thing, I think) and I do that for those who suffer in loneliness. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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TallPoppy
Shipmate
# 16294
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Posted
Lovely commentary, Mark.
The really odd thing about coming onto this board as someone who has lost all faith is that I almost see a future where faith might, just might, once again be a part of my life.
Isn't that paradoxical?
TP
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Papaver exaltatum
"Love comforteth like sunshine after rain"
Posts: 2389 | From: Southern England | Registered: Mar 2011
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Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961
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Posted
During my clinical depression 20 years ago the people of my normal Anglican church understood that it was an illness but other Christians were not so understanding.
I found, though, that I could not cope with the Confession because I reacted to it by feeling depressed. SO I stopped attending the C of E and went to the Quakers for 6 months. That was a good experience and I have nothing but good things to say about them. I recovered enough to see that my sinfulness (the fact that I get things wrong) is not related to my (self)worth and so I started back at the C of E.
Over the last 20 years I have mainly met, thankfully, CHristians who understand the medical roots. But when I don't I end up denying rather robustly other Christians ideas about sin and the Devil.
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Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
If only.
Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TallPoppy:
Lovely commentary, Mark.
The really odd thing about coming onto this board as someone who has lost all faith is that I almost see a future where faith might, just might, once again be a part of my life.
Isn't that paradoxical?
TP
That is brilliant TallPoppy. I think it is probably because having a safe space to explore is a really positive way of reconsidering what faith means. That is the very best hope for this board.
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
One of the things I value about my present church is that, as far as I can tell, about half of the congregation members under 50 are on anti-depressants or similar medication, which means a very supportive, understanding group.
So different from my previous church, which had a much older congregation, and no understanding of non-physical illness. A call to find out why I had stopped going to church (and an offer of Home Communion) would have meant so much and, at that point, I was not really capable of initiating such a conversation myself - but that did not fit into the 'contact the pastoral group if you need anything' model the church had.
Now, if I miss two consecutive Sundays, I tend to get a text message checking that I am O.K.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Potoroo
Shipmate
# 13466
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
No ongoing disability, thanks be to God. Treatment worked but I had no way of being sure of that at the time, by keeping normal vision in one eye and it stopped anything more going on in the blind eye "behind the scenes" but that eye remained unable to tell light from dark until an operation restored the sight in that eye.
That's good news, Evangeline. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Gilbert's Potoroo is Australia's most endangered animal.
Posts: 2778 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2008
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
Seeing mention of 'Vineyard' churches reminded me of two visits that I made to similar congregations (one 'New Frontiers', the other 'Pioneer'). Each congregation had a member who was known to be living with anxiety. At both congregations I witnessed the elders (one was an 'Apostle') ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) requesting all members not to contact the person living with anxiety and that if they wanted to know anything they should talk to the elders. I know that the anxiety of one of the individuals was caused by the abuse of the elders. I'm not saying it happens in all churches of that type but I am saying that is seems to me to be indicative of their controlling nature.
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
My apologies if I am wandering in here uninvited, I do not mean to intrude. I don't even often speak in purgatory, let alone such a specialist board as this, due to my mental health situation.
Some of you had such awful experiences of church and mental illness and it is important that these stories are heard, Christians need to know how you feel and insensitivities must be challenged. Easier said than done though, if one is in a state of depression or anxiety. Churches have the same ignorance as the population does, but it becomes more highlighted as a church should be a place of comfort and love. More training is needed and I would like to see disability advocates within churches.
I do want to say that not all Charismatic churches treat people with mental illness, or any disability, like this. I have attended a NF church for 10 years and am very open about my bipolar disorder and have had nothing but support. There has been no pressure to attend meetings, volunteer or join groups, all of which can cause me anxiety. No pressure for prayers either or doubts of my faith. I'm also someone who doesn't want people not to contact them, I do not cope with unexpected phone calls or visitors. And I know others with mental illness, just as well supported, throughout my church. Likewise those with other disabilities, my church goes out of their way to provide for them, support them and give them a voice. Controlling does not have to be a feature of the charismatic church.
That said, if a church I was attending attempted to control my mental health (like many manic depressives I manage my health by taking ownership of it) or lacked a supportive culture I would leave like a shot. I left my Anglican parish church for the sake of my sanity, though that situation was not personally against me, the church was a mess for many of the congregation. Mental health is far more important than any church.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
... Mental health is far more important than any church.
Indeed.
I am pleased your experience has been positive, unlike others on this Ship.
BTW, you are invited and welcome! This may be a different type of Board but it isn't closed.
[ 31. December 2014, 14:03: Message edited by: Mark Wuntoo ]
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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Potoroo
Shipmate
# 13466
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
At both congregations I witnessed the elders (one was an 'Apostle') requesting all members not to contact the person living with anxiety and that if they wanted to know anything they should talk to the elders. I know that the anxiety of one of the individuals was caused by the abuse of the elders.
Mark Wuntoo, that's appalling. It effectively cut the person off from all support! ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
And Heavenly Anarchist, that's good to hear of a church that's supportive, and that you are in a healthy situation for your mental health. Disability advocates for churches sounds good too.
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Gilbert's Potoroo is Australia's most endangered animal.
Posts: 2778 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
Mental health is far more important than any church.
I do tend to agree with this, although I know that others wouldn't (perversely).
Churches that are really good (and they do exist, but are few) cope with all sorts of people with a range of issues (including mental health issues).
The problem is that the majority of churches don't have people with the skills to appropriately work with and support people, especially those with mental health issues. The rather patriarchal nature of churches, where the vicar often has to manage everything, means that those with challenges can be neglected and hurt.
And so many churches don't acknowledge that they are damaging and abusive to certain groups of people. They may not mean to be, but they are. And some of them do mean to be, because they suck at being Gods people.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
Can fully relate to this Potoroo. Though I seem to edge towards the position that the church chose to stop visiting me, leaving me in the position to no longer visit them. In writing that last line I recognise that SOF/WND is my present faith in church.The gap therefore, presently being between the virtual and the real.
Initially, I moved away from 'Toronto'. Then I moved as the ministry my partner and myself led was 'bringing the wrong people into the church'
Finding a safe place was difficult, but we did 15 miles from home. However, that connection has dwindled as my mental health deteriorated and my partner died from cancer.
Quotes giving further context being
"You should be reading your bible more"
"Lets pray for the years the locusts have eaten"
"Well done you are in just the right place"(when I was in-patient on a psychiatric ward).
"What you need is more fellowship"(from a personal that promptly walked away).
"Oh she was cursed then"( when I informed a person that my partner felt she may die at an early age).
[ 12. January 2015, 12:16: Message edited by: DOEPUBLIC ]
Posts: 2350 | Registered: Oct 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
A tipping point for my faith (in retrospect) came when I told my priest about my mental health issues and he said, "That's not a spiritual issue, it's a health issue, and you need to work with your doctor, and do what he says as far as treatment goes."
If he had told me to stop treatment and trust God, or tried to pray the grey away, I can imagine it would have sent me packing.
So sorry about your experience, Potoroo. Hugs from Seattle.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
May I ask more generally if churches do a good job of social support at all, let alone with mental illness? They often call themselves 'Christ centred' and supportive communities etc, but are they really?
Our experience in the context of family reactive mental health crisis after a near murder there is not much there. Our experience is getting a greeting card, offers of "call if you need something" and feeling that we were a dreadful burden when we tried to take up the offer for practical help.
I had the sense that people in the church often really don't want to know that others were suffering, struggling or in trouble, perhaps feeling that "good Christians' and regular church attenders etc who experienced problems violated some of their sense of order in the universe such that reaching out would acknowledge our suffering and that wasn't okay, because how can such bad things happen to such good people or some such. I also felt the shame of it.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Potoroo
Shipmate
# 13466
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...: May I ask more generally if churches do a good job of social support at all, let alone with mental illness? They often call themselves 'Christ centred' and supportive communities etc, but are they really?
You are right, of course.
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
If he had told me to stop treatment and trust God, or tried to pray the grey away, I can imagine it would have sent me packing.
So sorry about your experience, Potoroo. Hugs from Seattle.
Thank you, MT. I am glad you have a good experience with a priest who is sensible about mental health!
quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
"You should be reading your bible more" ...
"What you need is more fellowship"(from a personal that promptly walked away).
"Oh she was cursed then"( when I informed a person that my partner felt she may die at an early age).
DOEPUBLIC, I am sorry you had to hear these things when you were suffering. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Gilbert's Potoroo is Australia's most endangered animal.
Posts: 2778 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2008
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
Thanks Potoroo. Did the locusts eat two quotes ?
[ 12. January 2015, 21:33: Message edited by: DOEPUBLIC ]
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Potoroo
Shipmate
# 13466
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Posted
I didn't know enough about your situation for the other two quotes. Plus I was looking to cut down the quote as I don't like quoting huge amounts of text!
But I am sorry for what you went through and the lack of supoort you received from the church.
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Gilbert's Potoroo is Australia's most endangered animal.
Posts: 2778 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
May I ask more generally if churches do a good job of social support at all, let alone with mental illness? They often call themselves 'Christ centred' and supportive communities etc, but are they really?
Thinking out loud - there is no such thing, really as "the church," it's an abstraction.
There's a random collection of people, each with their own needs and abilities and interests. Some might notice "Nancy hasn't been here for a few weeks" but most won't really be aware, they are focused on people who are present.
*If* one of the people who notices Nancy's absence is the "reach out and touch" kind, Nancy gets a phone call asking are you OK, do you need anything, a bowl of chicken soup or a ride to a doctor? *If* Nancy says yes, maybe the caller provides the help.
Or maybe the caller gets busy and forgets.
Or maybe the caller contacts the church office. Response to that contact depends on who is on duty to take the call, how important or unimportant the call is viewed compared with other work at hand, whether the message is garbled, and how "politically" important Nancy is perceived to be for that church.
Some church offices see their job in response to a need as putting people on the prayer list, period.
Mostly any personal help comes from personal friends, not from "the church."
I have recently begun to see email used to alert people to specific needs, two churches on whose email list I am started doing this as about the same time, I wonder if there was some article somewhere.
One email said a long term member has become housebound and would love to attend but needs a ride.
Another said a family need an afternoon caretaker for a man with Parkinsons for a couple months until the family can get other living arrangements worked out.
Another email said a member's neighbor has no car (there is no bus or taxi here) and needs a bicycle to get to and from work.
Response has been good. If there start being twenty emails a week instead of one a month, will response be good? Maybe, people like to fill a specific short term need. Humans are social animals and also like to be useful.
Dis-ease care can be awkward to ask help for because of privacy concerns and the ignorantly abusive attitudes of some "helpers." One advantage of a mostly gray haired church, everyone has been through some bad stuff and has (usually) learned by experience what not to say!
Anyway, with modern easy targeted communications, maybe "church reaching out with caring" will improve compared with twenty years ago?
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Anyway, with modern easy targeted communications, maybe "church reaching out with caring" will improve compared with twenty years ago?
Or it will feel even worse, knowing how easy it is to reach out these days, when nobody does.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
...requesting all members not to contact the person living with anxiety and that if they wanted to know anything they should talk to the elders. I know that the anxiety of one of the individuals was caused by the abuse of the elders.
This happened to me, only I had depression brought on by an abusive minister. When I finally resigned from the parish, I wondered why I didn't hear from anyone, as I had, I thought, a large number of good friends in the congregation. I resigned solely because of the minister, the members of the congregation were lovely.
About a year later, I met one of my favourite church people in the street and said hello. She said, "Oh, are we allowed to talk to you now?" I said, "You always have been." She said, "But you weren't right in the head." I said, "What do you mean?"
She told me that for two Sundays after I resigned, the congregation had been told that I was "not right in the head," and that I had expressly said that I didn't want to see anyone from the congregation.
The poor woman who talked to me must have realised this was news to me, and looked terribly embarrassed, but we were able to talk ourselves back into conversation over the next 20 minutes while I caught up on her life and told her about my new job. We've seen each other several times a year since then, so no damage done there, thank heavens.
I have never been so angry at the church as I was in that moment. To tell outright lies, and in such language, and still call yourself a minister.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Potoroo
Shipmate
# 13466
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
She told me that for two Sundays after I resigned, the congregation had been told that I was "not right in the head," and that I had expressly said that I didn't want to see anyone from the congregation.
APW, that is appalling.
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Gilbert's Potoroo is Australia's most endangered animal.
Posts: 2778 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Sheeyit.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Yes, well, fortunately it is now 9 years in the past, and I have re-established many of those relationships. Not all.
People often think I left the church because of its anti-gay stance, but it was being treated so badly by my own minister that did it.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
the congregation had been told... that I had expressly said that I didn't want to see anyone from the congregation.
Sometimes clergy tell people bad advice ignorantly thinking they are giving good, but this was clearly a vicious control issue.
My story is the opposite - In one church the congregation were told to never contact or have anything to do with me. Several friends there called to give me the news and discuss it sympathetically, one brought me a tape of that meeting, we continued to do things together. No personal friendships changed.
(The preacher liked me again after I sent some money to his church several months in a row, that kind always like people who donate; my "buying his friendship" made life easier for friends who felt caught in the middle.)
The point being, I value friends who think for themselves and would not believe any such statement - or if they believed it would see it as a cry for help and refuse to break off contact. I am trying to be/become that kind of friend, aware, not automatically accepting second or third hand info.
But that assumes out-of-church contacts were already taking place. People who see you only in church are not going to suddenly show up in your private life uninvited or against a warning.
Again, I think modern communications can reduce the power of abusive clergy. An email to a few church friends "haven't seen you in ages, how about lunch to catch up?" But it can be awfully hard to reach out when sick or in a depression.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
May I ask more generally if churches do a good job of social support at all, let alone with mental illness? They often call themselves 'Christ centred' and supportive communities etc, but are they really?
By the looks of it this question can't be answered in a general way, as an individual's experience of receiving support from their local church congregation seems to vary enormously.
Most of the (Anglican) churches I've known well enough to comment on, would have been fairly supportive to members going through bad times, including depression. But perhaps not in a structured way. It would've come down to, maybe, some visiting - or supportive listening - by whichever clergy-person was involved with their pastoral care (including, home communion, etc), and whatever other visiting might've been felt appropriate by close friends within the congregation.
Indeed, it's often the 'hidden' visiting by one's friends from church that does the donkey work of keeping the hurting person within the community.
Many congregation members live as neighbours, sometimes even work-colleagues, family members etc, and have been friends for many years, so it's hard to imagine that these strong, time-tested bonds can disappear just because one party has become ill, or stopped attending church. Having said that, undoubtedly some people's notion of friendship is so fragile and insincere that this does happen. And I'm certainly aware that some churchy people are very prone to getting up themselves when fellow congregation members have trouble with their church-membership for whatever reason. But I see that as a personality thing, frankly. And that anyone who behaves like that, would behave like that in whatever situation they were in, not just because it's 'church'.
In situations of supporting those with depression within congregations of my own experience, both alone and in clergy-lay teams, I know we sought to be part of whatever support networks the person concerned had, in a helpful and positive way, if permitted to be so. And any known to us who were in difficulty for whatever reason, could've been confidentially referred to in the staff meeting, as a way of ensuring that, if possible, they weren't left unattended, and their supporting minister wasn't him or herself unsupported.
I'm also conscious that our current rector will visit people who are no longer 'visibly' part of the Sunday congregation. And again, ime, it's a fairly normal thing for parish ministers to have on their regular, or occasional, visiting schedules those who left, were disaffected or stopped coming for whatever reason. Those who were unable to attend for reasons of sickness would be particular candidates for home communion and the ministry of prayer.
I've never been part of a church where a leader instructed me, either individually or as part of a congregation, to avoid or censure a certain person for any reason, let alone illness. And I grew tired, very quickly, of one church where the theme of some of its preaching was how God punished gay people with AIDS. I can't even imagine - well, not easily imagine - the kind of church where this could be regarded by intelligent Christian people as acceptable behaviour.
However, I can imagine church leaders - on an individual level - being unwise, uncharitable and vicious in their response to things they don't understand, or have ignorant views of, such as mental illness; and trying to influence others with their ideas. One can only hope that leaders such as these don't remain unchallenged by their congregations, and that congregation members have the compassion and good sense to continue as good Christians in their actions towards those who struggle with mental illness, by offering care, support and understanding.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
A different view of "mental illness."
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/08/22/shaman-sees-mental-hospital/
What a Shaman Sees in A Mental Hospital
Have we let our excessively materialistic culture blind us to broader realities, resulting in labeling people "mentally ill" when the truth may be something amazing?
Call me excessively materialistic if you will, but a cursory reading of that article makes me think "exchanging one superstitious bullshit view of mental illness for another one."
Sorry.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
Interesting. I work in a mental hospital, and it is true that some patients, particularly those with what are generally labelled as psychotic symptoms, can show extraordinary awareness of those around them. I have walked briskly through a ward, talked to one person for ten seconds, and had a patient ask me if something is wrong or bothering me, and it was.
Patients can be extraordinarily supportive, empathic and affirmative towards each other. You might expect that they would be cruel, excluding, mocking, and would enjoy finding each other's weaknesses, but usually they are the complete opposite despite being enormously troubled themselves.
I always assumed that the staff set the tone and ethos, but perhaps it's the patients.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Potoroo:
I am aware that this post might be confronting to some Christians. Please remember it was just my experience of Christianity. However, I believe this sort of thing needs to be heard. I feel strongly that the church handling mental illness wrongly can have a huge impact and can turn people away from God.
Your response makes perfect sense to me. I think "fake friendship" as a false exercise of Christian piety is one of the most common failure modes of churches. At least so for churches that define themselves heavily on the "brotherhood" of the community and the "loving your neighbour" stuff. The charade then falls apart when the shit hits the fan. (In your run-of-the-mill RC church, you are more likely to get comprehensively ignored for a decade or two - the failure mode there is more to make the church a drive-through McD serving consecrated hosts...) Another big failure mode of churches is to see prayer for the health of mind and body as a kind of supernatural competition to regular medicine and counselling, as if God could not act through regular care and medicine. Looks like you got hit by the combination of the two. That's no doubt enough to eat away even the strongest of faith. Sorry to hear that.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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