Ship of Fools: Mentally ill Christians: "spiritualized hysteria or eyes to see?"

Thread: Mentally ill Christians: "spiritualized hysteria or eyes to see?" Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by king in exile (# 18277) on :

"The righteous live by faith," right? Yet, think of the many problems that come from the intrinsic quality of agreeing to "the evidence of things unseen." It is as if Christians are conversely expected to be the most healed and well-adjusted people in the world while being mad enough to believe magical things that make zero sense. We have seen so much damage from illogical thinking in the church that I cannot bear the practice of (to quote Anne Lamott, I think) "spiritualized hysteria." I've noticed, and this is anecdotal, that many people in the church are mentally ill. This spans from the muppet-like enthusiast who shows up looking like they slept in an attic to church leadership, and it certainly encompasses me in my own way. Ironically, this recognition made dismissing some of the antics I've witnessed at times more difficult. Frenzied figures like John the Baptist and crazy-eyed Mr. Jones sitting right next to me aren’t going away, and I now wonder how wrong I am to despise the madness.
I would often think to myself thus: "What if [Joe/Jane] isn’t just hysterical? What if it is some kind of beatitudinal horror that the crazy aren't so crazy?" If we really believed in hell, I mean really believe, we would be neurotic at least. However, Jesus' own family went to save him because he was acting nuts (Mark 3:21). And, John the Revelator's very pretty daydream on Patmos really doesn't make for pleasant Evangelical small talk at the BBQ. I say this because I couldn’t bear the weight of the madness anymore, my own and everyone’s. Though, I didn’t choose; not once did I declare to myself “Damn it, I’m done expecting someone’s schizophrenia to vanish through the laying-on-of-hands, denying my true political convictions based on half-baked eschatology, believing that Christians have to be unhappy because they don’t have The Spirit, etc…” My capacity to believe in craziness simply diminished the more I saw the weight of people’s fanatical and unreasonable behavior buckle their lives. We are to minister to people in the pain of psychosis, and almost always it seems that fanatical people are those that have had really terrible things happen to them. They are so excited about Jesus the healer and friend that you can't have a normal conversation with them. Should it be so with life a veil of tears? Not for my money, but it is still hard, and answers predictably tend to boil down to “everyone just needs more Jesus,” or “religion destroys lives.”
I guess I bring this up because of my disappointment. I am disappointed that the most vigorous believers often seem to be characterized by what William James labeled “a sick soul.” This definitely includes the smooth people in leadership that package their craziness with better social efficacy. As a naïve person, you can look upon these spiritual individuals who seem to have it figured out as a standard to emulate. Then, you see a peek into their private life, their soul as it is in their home, and they are merely less candid and more charming than the kook on Facebook posting about how Monster Energy Drink is an anti-Christ (yes, look it up). Yet, I don’t think them less rude in their insanity. I think as rude for their insidiousness though I can’t blame them for not wearing the joker card on their sleeve. I’m disappointed in the mental illness of believers, but these people at least may have more of a form of faith than I now hold.

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

I'm not remotely sure I've followed you, but if I have ... I think the trick is not to base your faith, theology, praxis or views on the more headline-grabbing outliers.

Everything has its crazies (football fandom (indeed, any sport), religion, theatre lovers, atheism, Jane Austen enthusiasts, Apple fanbois, whatever), those who have drunk so deep from the kool-aid that you cannot have a conversation with them that is not either breathless or immune to reason. They are not representative, and one should not confuse their sincere fervour with veracity, necessarily.

As for actual mental illness I've seen a fairly even spread across the religious, irreligious and a-religious. And I firmly believe we're all a bit screwed up to one degree or another; 'mental illness' just means you've stepped too many standard deviations away, much like those you appear to refer to have stepped a number of standard deviations away from the religious 'norm'.

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :

Not sure whether you are saying "they" are mad because they are Christian, or they are Christian because they are mad?

Snags has got it dead right. There are plenty of "mad" people around in any form of societal grouping. And what is mad anyway? Just a few degrees away from whatever society has decreed the norm.

And actually, those of us who have suffered from a mental illness in the past, do not like it referred to as mad. (I know, I am doing it) There is, unhappily, much mental illness around, but it is not confined to any religious grouping, nor even more prevalent there than in the secular world.

Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :

I am no expert and have little experience of mental health issues. But I have lots of experience of observing people behaving in bizarre ways: I mean Toronto Blessing stuff etc., some of which I suspect may be 'cultural'.

Just want to say - I have an instinctive aversion to some of the language being used here. 'Mental illness' is not the same as 'mental health'; 'crazy' and 'mad' mean very little and seem derogatory to me. I have been told on a number of occasions that I need to differentiate.

Maybe I'm off-track - there will be people here who can tell me, if so. Or say it better than me if I'm right.

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

Just as a point of reference, I was using "crazies" as shorthand for those on the extremes of expressions of faith/belief, who may or may not actually be mentally ill.

As it happens, the majority of the people I know who have actual diagnosed mental health issues are actually fairly unassuming and middle of the road, so I'm not sure there's a correlation.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I'm also not sure I understand, but some random thoughts here...

I agree with those who've said that everybody's got issues. Some may hide it better than others, but we're all broken in some way. Expecting un-broken-ness, or pretending to it, is a sign of spiritual childishness. It's hard to get on with any real healing when people won't/aren't allowed to own up to the broken-ness.

As for diagnosable mental illness, I don't know that the church has any more of it than anywhere else. But even if it does, that's what you would expect, isn't it? Christ says "Come to me, you who are heavily burdened," and boy, do we. Which is as it should be.

I suspect you are coming out of a charismatic/Pentecostal type setting when you refer to believing crazy things--correct me if I'm wrong--but I don't think there's any correlation between, say, believing the counterintuitive things in the Apostles' Creed and mental illness. If there were, then pretty much all of medieval Europe would have been severely ill. But if you were referring to non-mainstream "miracles" (such as believing that a particular church leader has the gift of prophecy regardless of observed outcomes, which point to the opposite), I could understand that. Intentionally twisting your brain in a direction it doesn't want to go is not a healthy thing.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

I honestly don't think you can tell at the time, but perhaps looking back from the future will make it more clear. Hildegard of Bingen, for instance, had these crazy visions, yet produced beautiful music which is still listened to today.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

I kinda like the OP.

And it raises what may be part of why church doesn't work for me.

Christians are inherently "crazy" from a post Enlightenment "everything is physical and measureable" viewpoint.

A Christian teacher I like says Jesus' view of reality - the one we are to pursue - is "upside down". The last shall be first. Don't seek wealth. If someone robs you, give them more. Love your enemies. Don't worry about whether you'll have food and clothes.

Toss in any slightest belief in occasional miracles or personal guidance from God or prayer having effect on anyone (except to the extent the one praying is helped by his own thoughts) and we are totally outside the realm of "sanity".

So Sunday morning we walk into a program whose purpose is to honor the "upside down" and "more than just material" view of reality but -

But we are suppose to respond to all this amazingness without enthusiasm. Sit quietly, do what you are told, chat politely at coffee about daily troubles.

Do we believe what was talked about in church? I mean really. We sit in church hearing the most amazing - yes, crazy - stories and instructions, and we explain them all away. I asked Mom as a kid why we don't - whatever was the lesson of the day, give your extra coat or whatever - why aren't we doing that? She said Jesus said lots of beautiful things but they are impractical, we have to live in the real world.

Note the dissonance. We go to church which is inherently about "crazy" actions and attitudes, and then we dismiss it all as impractical in real life. But if it's all impractical, why do we go listen to it, isn't repeated church-going itself "crazy" if we are going to explain the crazyness away and live as if we hadn't heard of a different way?

If we dared live as Jesus advised, really live that way, how would life be different? My first thought is "I'd starve" which proves I don't believe Jesus and his "pretty but impractical" thing about lilies of the field. My second thought is "churches would kick me out" because churches thrive on predictability and an uninvolved God, or at least one who is tame enough to just show up in bread and wine and not actually do anything noticeable, that would disrupt the calm "worshipful" atmosphere most (not all) churches seek.

Yup, it's all crazy.

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