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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Positive
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Good folk of this sub-forum.
We've talked a lot about what we regret or miss or the problems, but what positives do we think there are in our current position compared with that we held previously?
For me, and it's linked to one of the Straws wot broke... is honesty.
If a Bible passage stinks, I feel I can say "this stinks".
If a dogma seems to be utterly barking, I feel I can say "this is barking".
I can call hubris hubris. I don't feel I have to police my thoughts to guard against religious thoughtcrime.
It's like Big Brother is finally overthrown and the Party can no longer force me to think their way.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
Echoeing Karl!
A sense of freedom from feeling bound to comply and with that freedom a contentment, even joy. A freedom from feeling guilty, a freedom from 'rules' (perhaps some of these were imagined, thanks to my fundy background). A freedom to be myself, to think my own thoughts, to do my own thing.
'Surprised by joy' was exactly what I felt very soon after making the definitie break.
Once having tasted freedom ....
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
I found that being outside the hierarchy of the village mafia was a lot better than being at the bottom of it. I no longer get called on to do unpleasant jobs in the name of my "Christian duty", and I can speak my mind without caring what anyone else says.
Sunday morning fishing trips are nice as well.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I suppose it is similar, but I would describe it as "inconsistency". I am free to be inconsistent in my beliefs, I am free to explore and discuss these as I will and can. I no longer have to find a way of being consistent with the church teaching, as well as exploring myself.
Also, I can stand outside the church and see it from the outside, while being knowledgeable enough about the inner workings. When there is a policy statement from the CofE (which I was part of), I can declare that it is total crap if it is. I feel no compulsion to make excuses - I can say that he CofE is institutionally homophobic.
It is immensely freeing, especially as someone who has looked for leadership roles, I have had to fit into the church a lot. It is so nice not to have to do so, to be able to call crap crap.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Since for me churchgoing is only dull duty, deciding a couple days ago to quit resulted in instant spark of joy.
I look forward to actually encountering God again instead of going thru the empty of God (for me) motions at church and coming home irritable.
I intend to spend my limited free time in activities that renew instead of drain,
and with people who can laugh and create instead of just doing and thinking as they are told.
I miss what church claims to be, warm loving mutually supporting God-aware. It's hard to give up the dream but I'm worn out with the reality.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
Being an atheist, I've never experienced much of the joys of faith. The primary value of no faith is honesty. I watch people try to tip toe around obvious untruths in the Bible by dismissing them as literary or beyond comprehension and it all seems an elaborate dance. I don't want to worship a God who is omnipotent and tolerates vast evil.
I also see people who have been harmed by beleif that God made them defective and that one should just accept a crippled life or early death. I'm so glad not to be part of that conspiracy. I don't miss the thread of hellfire. The regret of a short mortal life is balanced by not fearing an afterlife.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
If a Bible passage stinks, I feel I can say "this stinks".
If a dogma seems to be utterly barking, I feel I can say "this is barking".
And I feel I can say that a Bible passage stinks or that a dogma is barking at my liberal Anglo-Catholic church. Admittedly the vicar did not look happy when I said I was bothered by the emphasis on Mary, to the exclusion of other saints - but I felt free to say it to him and there do not appear to have been any negative repercussions.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Let's keep this thread for talking about the positives, and take comments about "but you can do that in Christianity too" elsewhere.
--Autenrieth Road
Faithfree Host
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
I'm free to ignore religious cant. I'm free to follow my conscience and reflect on how to do better at living my values without worrying that there's something wrong with me because I don't pray, or being hyperselfcritical because, oh no, I'm not checking to be sure I put Jesus first. I'm free to look at the church from the outside instead of trying to think it should make sense. I'm free to laugh off religious pronouncements that have no grounding in reality.
I think the second one is biggest: I'm free to be myself and reflect on my own values and really grow that way. What do *I* really think? I can find out and act on that.
[ 22. January 2015, 05:35: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
If a Bible passage stinks, I feel I can say "this stinks".
If a dogma seems to be utterly barking, I feel I can say "this is barking".
And I feel I can say that a Bible passage stinks or that a dogma is barking at my liberal Anglo-Catholic church. Admittedly the vicar did not look happy when I said I was bothered by the emphasis on Mary, to the exclusion of other saints - but I felt free to say it to him and there do not appear to have been any negative repercussions.
And I can do it in my FE place as well, but I couldn't do it before when I was trying to as it were believe six impossible things before breakfast.
It wasn't churches saying I couldn't do these things. It was my own soundness meter.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
A sense of relief really, and freedom. I like exploring other religions; on the other hand, I sometimes just find religion quite boring, and it's good just to ignore it.
I think I had a lot of guilt as a kind of engine inside me, powering religious stuff; for some reason, the guilt has diminished.
Also, a lot of it just seems really bonkers now, and I feel more sane.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
A sense of relief really, and freedom...
I think I had a lot of guilt as a kind of engine inside me, powering religious stuff; for some reason, the guilt has diminished.
For me it's not guilt so much as a world view that life is serious, God is serious, we must always strive to be good, strive to do the right things, strive to "hear" God, strive - it's all darkly serious endless striving. No joy. (In a mainline church that ignores the concept of hell! The hellfire churches are worse.) Even Christmas and Easter they have sober the celebration by talking about Jesus' torture and death.
Yes to relief and freedom, a feeling I can breathe! An expectation of adventures instead of fitting uncomfortably into a pre-assigned slot. (You are a singer, your duty is to sing mediocre music in the mediocre choir, and NOT try out for a musical stage show because rehearsals would conflict with choir rehearsals and we need you here.)
Joy. Laughter. Freedom to feel and express emotion. To try new things physical emotional spiritual. To create instead of just follow and mimic.
Prisoner set free.
And a little scared about how to find new friends; but it will come.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Also, a lot of it just seems really bonkers now, and I feel more sane.
This! And a lot other things already mentioned.
Just to clarify, what I find bonkers is not the belief in Jesus, but the church institutions.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Well, I got tired of belief in anything really; and there is a process of discarding beliefs which is refreshing and also quite alarming. What is left? Ah, my dear, blue-bleak embers fall, gall themselves, and gash gold-vermilion. (Hopkins).
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
Nice opening post Karl. I agree that honesty is the big one, for sure. For me that was not taking part in any way at all (or even endorsing) manipulative and dishonest practises and beliefs that completely dominated church life for around 10 years. It has meant a very sad and disjointed home life—I sometimes wonder if life would have been better if I had continued believing in lies and taking part in all the manipulation. So, yes, that's a positive from a personal perspective, but that freedom—to call a spade a spade—has come at no small cost to other aspects of my life.
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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