Ship of Fools: Where do we go next?

Thread: Where do we go next? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

This experiment is now 2 months in, and so has another month to run. It is probably time to start a discussion about what happens after our time has run out.

Options are, as I see them (please highlight more if wanted!) are:

1. This board becomes a permanent, public board. While this is what I would like, the level of activity has diminished since the start, which might make this less likely. If we want this, we need to make a good argument for it.

2. The board becomes a private board for continuing discussion of these related topics. While this is a possibility, I am not sure it really would serve the purpose that this board could serve.

3. The board finishes and closes, and the discussions take place in other places.

Personally, I am happy to engage with any of these. This thread is for open discussion of the possibilities. Please note, I will not be offended by anyone who says "it has served its purpose and should close".

The future needs to be a mutual agreement. Of course the hosts and admins may have some say in this too - but we need to have a clear view about what we, the contributors to this board, need to come up with.

Posted by Komensky (# 8675) on :

Keep it.

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
1. This board becomes a permanent, public board. While this is what I would like, the level of activity has diminished since the start, which might make this less likely. If we want this, we need to make a good argument for it.

I too would like this board to stay. I have appreciated the honesty here and hearing about how other shipmates have dealt with, and are dealing with, issues of non-faith. However, I haven't felt able to contribute much because I am not at present in a non-faith place. I wonder if the remit could be opened up a bit? Maybe to discuss faith and non-faith issues we find ourselves up against? I, for instance, have a few challenges as I'm a liberal contemplative type in a con-evo church.

I'm not sure how it could be done in practice, though; we have Purgatory and Dead Horses to discuss serious subjects and All Saints if we want support with issues related to them...

Posted by Macrina (# 8807) on :

I am one of the ones who has diminished activity. I'd very much like to keep it. I don't know how many lurkers would read it but I really have felt helped by listening to the stories of others in my position.

Posted by MrsBeaky (# 17663) on :

If the board does close would there be any mileage in having an ongoing "Faith free" thread on the All saints board- a bit like the "Sundry Liturgical Questions" thread on Eccles? It would limit discussion to one topic at a time or might curtail discussion prematurely but that might be better than losing this board altogether...
I have visited the board every time I visit the Ship and would be sad to lose all trace of such discussions as I think they are healthy conversations to be having regardless of our faith position.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I would keep it if the software limits allow. I imagine another '8th day' topic is waiting in the wings, so we may need a new name.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I would keep it if the software limits allow. I imagine another '8th day' topic is waiting in the wings, so we may need a new name.

It would have to be moved and established anew. That would be a chance to learn lessons from this experiment and relaunch.

In a month, this board as it stands will end. The question is what happens then.

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :

I would like to keep it. I have found many of the posts of great help. Just knowing there are others out there having The same problems is of enormous value.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

This is the third 8th Day, so there is a little data on the life cycle. An initial spike, followed by a slowing and levelling of activity has been the pattern - and pretty much what one would expect.

At the end of Verseworks, we opened a thread for general discussion of poetry (as some posters had indicated an interest). It sank. A Circus thread continuing one of the most popular poetry games was hardly much longer lived.

I don't know, were any of the Kempistry topics spun off into threads on existing Boards?

I am just wondering if there is some dynamic whereby 8th Day topics don't survive transplantation? (After all, they didn't spring up naturally before the creation of their dedicated space).

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Yes there were some Kempistry threads sent elsewhere but they sank too. There's the Kinaesthetic prayer thread on page 2 of Ecclesiantics, not posted on since 29 December 2014 and a few others further down page 2.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

I think this particular incarnation of the 8th day has gone further than the others in its fight for its own distinctive tone and purpose, rather than simply being a space for talking about different things in the same voice as the rest of the Ship. What that means for its future I'm not quite sure: I can see it being cited as evidence either for letting the topics go elsewhere, because the tone has been established, or for continuing it precisely because of its distinctiveness. Personally I would go for the latter, as a private board if necessary.

Posted by Potoroo (# 13466) on :

I would definitely like to see the board continue, either as a public or private board. I think there will always be people interested in Faithfree issues, especially as the Ship of Fools is a website of "Christian unrest". I certainly have more threads in me, but have not posted them as I'm uncertain of whether they are suitable for a public board.

Posted by Luigi (# 4031) on :

I would keep it. Been fascinating to read. Maybe I (and other lurkers) should post more, so that there is more activity here!

Posted by DOEPUBLIC (# 13042) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Potoroo:
I would definitely like to see the board continue, either as a public or private board. I think there will always be people interested in Faithfree issues, especially as the Ship of Fools is a website of "Christian unrest". I certainly have more threads in me, but have not posted them as I'm uncertain of whether they are suitable for a public board.

This captures the essence for me. A special culture has started to develop, that is not in the spotlight. However, the liberty of expression can be tempered compared to the security of a private board.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

I like a public board because others happen on it, but a private (not-archived, not google-able) allows more openness for those who would like to say more but not in the internet-is-forever domain.

Would it work to have some kind of perpetual thread (purg?) inviting people to the Faith Free private board? It could consist of topic invitations such a "I want to discuss how to adjust to life without church now that I've decided it doesn't make sense, come to FaithFree and share your ideas."

I'm NOT saying "do this" - it's not well thought out. Just trying to maybe spark a better idea from someone else.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

It's a tad disappointing that 8th Day topics can't migrate into the mainstream, even though they have as much following (I would have thought) as some of the more recondite topics in some of the existing boards. I shouldn't, myself, like to see it disappear into private board status. My own preference would be to see it join the roster of special interest boards (if it appears after Kerygmania and Eccles, it could maybe be retitled 'None of the above').

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

Like life, like private boards topics peter out after initial interest, Oooooh shiney! Now what else have you got for me? In the public boards, interesting topics do the same. Those who don't close with a bang, just dribble on until they are euthanized.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
after initial interest, Oooooh shiney! Now what else have you got for me?

As you say, that's life.

I guess the question is, does this topic have enough interest and variety to continue - and if so how long? One more month? Another year? We've all kinda splat what we've been longing to say out loud and are pretty much done?

Does the ship need a mortuary, a last stop before burial, bell on toes, wait a bit to see if the body comes to life and rejoins the family of active boards, or is truly ready to consign to the dust?

I kinda like the perpetual thread idea - perhaps multiple FaithFree topics simultaneously in the thread, not one at a time.

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :

I too like the idea of The Faith-Free Thread - try saying that one out loud!

Posted by parm (# 9287) on :

As a lurker, I've very much enjoyed reading the discussion that's happened here, and have found it enormously helpful in clarifying (and, in some cases, further muddying) some of my thoughts - even if my personal contribution has only been a single post. I'd be very much in favour of keeping something around in some form - whether it would sustain enough discussion longer term to warrant a full board of its own, or a single thread on another board with define rules/agenda, I don't know. But I think the journey out of faith is as valid a topic for discussion, sharing and mutual support as the journey into and through.

Posted by Winnow (# 5656) on :

I have very much enjoyed reading all the posts in this Special Interest Discussion. I'm pretty much a "lurker" -- I can't for the life of me keep up with you guys! -- but I do SO MUCH enjoy the reading. If I have anything to offer, I'll do so, but not likely. I'm Unitarian Universalist, so the losing-faith thing isn't so much an issue with us -- we don't care if you have "faith" or not! Nor how or why you might have lost it, or what you're doing about it, if anything. Which is not entirely true -- we DO care about you, a lot, and want you to be filled, spiritually, whatever that means to you. If anything. Bedtime in Idaho, USA ... thanks for being here ... love you guys ...

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

I've enjoyed this board as a faithless person. I think there's value to having a public discussion rather than a private board. That provides a hook for people who may be newly dealing with questioning their faith or faithlessness.

It also seems like the volume of postings has diminished pretty substantially. The board has provided a 'no arguing about lack of faith' space. Can that be maintained in an All-Saints or Purgatory thread? Otherwise it seems like it's just another Purgatory topic that anyone can bring up.

If it is exposed as threads the other question is how many threads? It does seem like there are two or three topics here that might benefit from a separate thread. The tradeoff is that too many threads may hasten the extinction of the topics.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
If it is exposed as threads the other question is how many threads? It does seem like there are two or three topics here that might benefit from a separate thread.

Like, Faithfree - deciding to leave God or church; Faithfree - benefits/costs of life without God or church; Faithfree - looking back on life with God or church. A few threads?

But anyone can post anything, including (within the Ten Cs) "here's why you are wrong" or "the problem is probably you, not God or church." Not the same feel. But experimentally, sure, see how it goes.

P.S. Does a private board also have a cost? Servers aren't free. If so it takes a certain size to keep it afloat financially as well as in activity.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Info is here. Though I don't know how payments to SoF are working at the moment.

[ 10. February 2015, 16:32: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
P.S. Does a private board also have a cost? Servers aren't free. If so it takes a certain size to keep it afloat financially as well as in activity.

Yes - there is a cost that would probably be of the order of £100, which those members who wanted it would have to contribute towards. It is not a great deal, but it is worth considering, as there is some commitment involved.

Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
.... We've all kinda splat what we've been longing to say out loud and are pretty much done? .....

As someone who has contributed, starting a few threads, and then cut down a great deal on posting, I think Belle Ringer sums it up correctly.

I cannot put my finger exactly why or how but it has increasingly felt that 'church people' have come to the fore rather than fully faith-free people and people moving in that direction whilst staying in or near church, and I have not welcomed that. Just me.

Having said that, I have greatly valued the space for the sharing and discussion of people's stories. And folk have helped me to sort out one or two things. Thanks.

I have my doubts that this Board can survive for long.

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

I'm going to say two apparently contradictory things.

First, I thing it was always going to be a hard trick to pull off to have a public board where you're allowed to be critical of church but not critical of the criticism. Especially on the Ship where criticism and counter-criticism are pretty much meat and drink.

Second, if you figure out a way to do - presumably with much heavier hosting that takes place on most boards - then it will turn into a very valuable space.

Posted by DOEPUBLIC (# 13042) on :

Presumably, the choice must enable the guidelines to remain as parameters. How will this be possible on a free thread ? How would access/vetting to a private board take place ? Or is the base-line those who have posted thus far.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
I cannot put my finger exactly why or how but it has increasingly felt that 'church people' have come to the fore rather than fully faith-free people and people moving in that direction whilst staying in or near church, and I have not welcomed that. Just me.

Could that be because

quote:
Faithfree is a place to discuss the implications of having lost or rejected your faith, be that in a representation of the divine, or an expression of faith community.

gives equal weight to loss of faith and loss of faith community ?

[ 10. February 2015, 20:10: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

The parameters can be tweaked for a new board, so the focus could be changed and managed based on the experiences of this board.

The problems of a private board are partly as DOEPUBLIC explains - there are no clear parameters for access to the board in the form it currently stands.

There would be a possibility of a purely support private board, for those who have left church or faith explicitly. That would be different board, but would be a reasonable follow up to this experiment. BUT it would not be the same, it would have a different focus.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Probably inconsistent with how the Ship works, but could be fun to have Faithfree disappear in the mists and re-appear as 8th day for a random quarter once a year or once per two years.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Probably inconsistent with how the Ship works, but could be fun to have Faithfree disappear in the mists and re-appear as 8th day for a random quarter once a year or once per two years.

That's essentially what T&T did back when it was a thing.

Posted by Ultima Thule (# 18347) on :

Never confuse quantity with quality.

Posted by Luigi (# 4031) on :

The other thing that this board could do is have more discussions like the Stephen Fry one. I think on this board it does have a different flavour to those in purgatory.

Posted by Potoroo (# 13466) on :

When does the Faithfree board finish its experiment, SC? Is it the start of March?

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

If the board is to hibernate and re-appear briefly periodically, like Brigadoon, then perhaps it would be appropriate for it to show up during the Hosts and Admins carnivals.
It could be left visible and untouched while the jokes run on the usual boards.

[Smile]

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
First, I thing it was always going to be a hard trick to pull off to have a public board where you're allowed to be critical of church but not critical of the criticism. Especially on the Ship where criticism and counter-criticism are pretty much meat and drink.

Which is pretty much why I haven't really done much with Faithfree. I can express empathy for people posting on it and their experiences, and within extremely narrow boundaries I can make comments, but that's about it. And I think that making any threads on Purgatory limited in that way would be a very bad idea, so if Faithfree continues, I think having its own board would be best, just to keep the rules of Purgatory and such the way they already are.

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

... though looking at the Defending God thread I'm now confused, since I thought that was precisely what we weren't supposed to do on Faithfree all this time... [Confused]

Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
... though looking at the Defending God thread I'm now confused, since I thought that was precisely what we weren't supposed to do on Faithfree all this time...

Yes, couldn't agree more.

It's partly why I said

quote:
I cannot put my finger exactly why or how but it has increasingly felt that 'church people' have come to the fore rather than fully faith-free people and people moving in that direction whilst staying in or near church, and I have not welcomed that. Just me.

Of course, it feeds my prejudices - church people know it all and can't stop talking. [Biased]

Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :

Mark Wuntoo:

Because, as Doublethink. pointed out earlier the board guidelines are:

"be that in a representation of the divine, or an expression of a faith community" My bold.

Some of us have not lost our faith in the divine, or in the Christian belief, but no longer believe that that faith is best lived out in a traditional church community.

Likewise, the ship population I guess has a preponderance of people who do have some religious belief, especially of the Christian variety. It is after all a board of 'Christian Unrest' So it should not be surprising to find mention of this.

If you want a board where expressions of belief in a God are not allowed then maybe you should either start a private board here, or join an atheist board where you will be less troubled by the intrusion of expressions of religious belief.

I have not contributed much to this board, although I thought I would at first, partly because I have limited my posting recently, and partly because I got tired of the complaints by people who have lost their religious faith every time someone posts about having a faith but looking for a different way to express that in community.

Maybe there are in fact two different boards here and the problem was trying to combine them. Or possibly the title 'Faith Free' which does imply the first part of the definition, rather than the second.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

This board is not "anti-faith" or "anti-church". It is intended for those for whom the traditional approaches are no longer working. That is quite a broad range - from those for whom any sort of faith is no longer worth while to those who are still involved in churches but it is no longer where they find God.

As with any new board, different peoples expectation will vary. We have tried to provide for all sorts of positions and views, and tried to find a balance between them all. A new board will start from a better position, but will still have the same issues.

If there are particular problems, please let us know. I have tried to be accepting of discussion (in the Defending God thread for example) where all parties are able to express themselves.

The opinion that "Church is of the devil" will gain as much unfavourable hostly attention as "You cannot be a Christian if you are not at church". This board is about exploring a rejection of faith, be that in the church or in God. It is not about judging people for their faith choices.

Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :

I think some confusion has arisen. The opening to the Board states

quote:
Faithfree is a place to discuss the implications of having lost or rejected your faith ....

which I have taken to mean a loss or giving-up of faith in GOD whether within or outside of the church. As far as I recall, that reflects the conversations which took place before the Board was established.

I cannot see how that squares with

quote:
It is intended for those for whom the traditional approaches are no longer working. That is quite a broad range - from those for whom any sort of faith is no longer worth while to those who are still involved in churches but it is no longer where they find God.

Any new Board would need to clarify, I think.

Thyme: I have made it clear in a couple of places that I am a non-theist, not an atheist. And atheist sites bore me to tears.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I also stayed out of this board almost completely because I could tell that certain posters would whack me upside the head if I posted from my Christian-but-really-unhappy-with-the-church-right-now perspective. In fact, I DID get whacked when I recommended hanging on to Jesus in a Purgatory thread that later got transferred to Faithfree. The post in question was extremely mild, and that was the only reference to Jesus or God at all--the rest of it was pure All Saints type support of a person having major issues with the church. From that experience and a number of similar posts not aimed at me, I concluded that those like me were highly unwelcome. (Not by the hosts, let me clarify--I had no trouble with the hosting at all)

Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :

If people want a place where they won't be challenged by those of another opinion, but supported by those of a similar disposition, maybe a thread or two in All Saints would do the trick.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

For me this has been the perfect space between All Saints and Purgatory. The point is not to speak into a void, as one is if there is no response to one's post, but to have an exchange based on experience, on one's own incarnation, and not on intellection. The tendency to major on intellection is the thing that mostly keeps me out of purgatory. My observations from experience seem to cut no ice. They do here, and this has been very heartening.

Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :

It's very one-sided if people are able to speak of experience if they have no faith, but not if they do.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

To be honest, it has felt at times as if some posters felt others were not entitled to post unless they posted somekind of mini-biography to validate their right to post.

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

I think different people were looking for very different things from this board. I would be quite happy in something which was essentially a purgatorial debate space, but with the tone of the debates informed by people on both sides being much more than usually aware that these issues cut close to the bone. To an extent, I think that is available here, although whether that is actually because of any enhanced sensitivity on behalf of posters, or just because the balance of numbers between the convinced and the doubtful is very different here to in purgatory, I don't know. I suspect it may be a balance of numbers thing, and the sensitively-handled debate concept may have been wishful thinking on my part from the outset.

All of which nonetheless suggests that the moving the more purgatorial threads into purgatory and leaving them to sink or swim, wouldn't work for me.

I'm really not sure where we go from here. I wouldn't engage much with a private board for the faithfree only, I suspect, but will miss this board as it stands when (if) it ceases to be.

Best wishes,
Rachel.

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :

I have really valued this board. The last page of the defending God thread, and KarlLB's "Who knows, eh?" in particular.

I would love the board to continue in some form, and I appreciate that space which is somewhere between All Saints & Purgatory.

That's probably no help at all, is it? Sorry.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
For me this has been the perfect space between All Saints and Purgatory. The point is not to speak into a void, as one is if there is no response to one's post, but to have an exchange based on experience, on one's own incarnation, and not on intellection. The tendency to major on intellection is the thing that mostly keeps me out of purgatory. My observations from experience seem to cut no ice. They do here, and this has been very heartening.

Agreed.

All my observations are from experience, as that's all I have.

It's been very good to have a place to share stuff about where we are (lack of) faith - wise.

[Smile]

[ 22. February 2015, 13:54: Message edited by: Boogie ]

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
To be honest, it has felt at times as if some posters felt others were not entitled to post unless they posted some kind of mini-biography to validate their right to post.

Yes. I definitely felt that way.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
To be honest, it has felt at times as if some posters felt others were not entitled to post unless they posted some kind of mini-biography to validate their right to post.
Yes. I definitely felt that way.

I suppose being a new board, it was useful to know where people were coming from, what their position was. For many people, they had not been able to express their position - to admit that they no longer believed.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

Debate based on intellectual proposition has a home, in Purgatory. If this was to be different, it needed to start from a different point and use different material to conduct itself. If you are uncomfortable with this, Purgatory seems to me to provide a satisfactory home.

I have very rarely felt that Purgatory was an environment in which I wanted to live, because any and all biographical or experiential data is dismissed.

Therefore, whilst I can understand what DT and others are saying, I don't feel that it is a particularly mordant criticism. It would be far worse if an experimental board merely mirrored the provision already provided by the well-established boards.

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

It's not about wanting to have Purg-style intellectual debate only. It's about whether you have to establish credentials before you can speak. It felt like if you were at all pro-church or pro-faith then you needed to be able to justify your standing on the board.

BTW - I was just re-reading the "Personal Relationship" thread in Purg and it contains quite a lot of non-dismissed personal experience. I enjoyed that thread partly for that reason.

Posted by Potoroo (# 13466) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
Maybe there are in fact two different boards here and the problem was trying to combine them. Or possibly the title 'Faith Free' which does imply the first part of the definition, rather than the second.

I agree with Thyme. I have definitely felt in a minority - I think there are only 3 or perhaps 4 of us on this Faithfree board who no longer follow / believe in God.

I can see that there could be quite a vibrant and in-demand ongoing board for those who still believe in God but have problems with / no longer go to church. Such a board could include intellectual discussion, as the big issues are what causes some people to leave church.

I don't see much of a future board for the few like me. Nevertheless, I have appreciated the opportunity to express myself here for 3 months, and I thank those of you who listened, as I can only hope that it will go easier on the next person you meet who is leaving / rejecting God. Which might just make a difference to their life / spirituality.

Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :

I agree, Potoroo. The pool of Faith-free people prepared to share in discussion has been small, thus others (with varying degrees of belief in GOD) have taken the stage.

Obviously of real concern to some people but, really, of what personal interest to many Faith-free people is a discussion headed ‘Defending God’? Or whether choruses are crap? Even a thread entitled ‘How do you experience doubt’ suggests that the Faith-free are outsiders – when actually we may have come to a point where we no longer doubt, we know [Big Grin]

I thought Belle Ringer’s thread on spirituality outside of church (not BR’s only attempt to get things going along these lines) might go somewhere, although an ‘admission’ of being a believer may have hindered that. I, for one, would have learned a lot from people who have found help in different forms of spirituality.

I have said that I have appreciated the Board. But I fear it will go into oblivion for lack of clarity on its purpose and for the constituency of posters.

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:

Obviously of real concern to some people but, really, of what personal interest to many Faith-free people is a discussion headed ‘Defending God’? Or whether choruses are crap? Even a thread entitled ‘How do you experience doubt’ suggests that the Faith-free are outsiders – when actually we may have come to a point where we no longer doubt, we know

I would count myself as Faith-free (sadly), and I was interested both in some of the issues raised in the original post on "defending God" and in the discussion further down the line of theodicy. I wasn't interested at all in the discussion of Stephen Fry's motivations in the middle, but I can scroll on past if I want to.

In terms of the "doubt" thread, I would make two points: 1) I can ask Christians how they experience doubt from an entirely non-Christian perspective. It's a valid question. 2) I still experience doubt - now I just doubt my faithfree position instead of my faithful one.

Some of your posts seem to suggest, Mark Wuntoo, that the rest of us are not doing the Faith-free thing right, as far as you are concerned - that we are insufficiently Faith-free for you. There is indeed a significant difference between where I find myself (which I would characterise is being no longer able to believe, but somewhat wishing I could) and where you find yourself (perhaps quite happy to have found your way out of belief to what you see as a much more satisfactory position). However, we are, I suspect, closer in our thinking to one another than to many of the ship's crew. Nonetheless, we just happen to want to discuss different things some of the time.

This board is an attempt at a community for "faithfree" people within a Christian website. The numbers involved were always going to be comparatively small. If you narrow it down further to people who are faithfree on your terms, you're eventually going to be in a community of one. It's possible that this board can't be all the different things that its different denizens originally envisioned it to be, but the fact that it isn't uniformly what any given poster originally envisioned certainly doesn't make this experiment a failure, in my view.

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :

Rachel: fair enough, you make good points. Probably I tend to see things in 'black and white'. (Although, being non-theist, I try hard to respect those who have faith in a god.)

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

FWIW, I can't really see the point of this board, given that all of the discussions could be held elsewhere (and probably have).

If one expects to have a discussion about faithlessness (and however one might understand that) without the contributions of the faithful to whom this website is primarily directed, one assumes you'd be better off spending/wasting your time elsewhere.

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :

mr cheesy, by "held elsewhere," do you mean elsewhere on the Internet? Or on the Ship, but on boards that already exist?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Yes, I meant elsewhere on SoF.

Of course, these debates are always underway somewhere on the internet.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

OK, as I am reading these comments, I think a number of people have found the board useful (which is good), but there does not seem to be enough to justify a permanent board (either public or private).

So, unless there is good reasons otherwise, this experiment will end as a valuable and useful place to have discussed some important matters. I am happy to continue discussions with anyone about anything that has been raised here.

Thank you everyone for your participation, and enjoy your last few days!

Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :

And many thanks to you SC for your work and commitment to the Board.

Posted by DOEPUBLIC (# 13042) on :

Thanks SC for providing this space, sorry that it will not flourish further.

Posted by Luigi (# 4031) on :

Thanks SC and AR for the idea and looking after the board. As some have suggested perhaps it can be revived on a temporary basis from time to time. I certainly thought the experiment has been worth it.

All the best
Luigi

[ 01. March 2015, 18:37: Message edited by: Luigi ]

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I would say a big thanks to Autenrieth Road for assistance here too.

It was a worthwhile experiment, we will have to see what happens next.

Posted by Potoroo (# 13466) on :

quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
Thanks SC for providing this space, sorry that it will not flourish further.

Echoing what DOEPUBLIC said.

Posted by DOEPUBLIC (# 13042) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I would say a big thanks to Autenrieth Road for assistance here too.

It was a worthwhile experiment, we will have to see what happens next.

Thankyou to AR, as well. Your kindness is appreciated.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

Thanks for all the work to the board hosts. This was helpful for me.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Potoroo:

quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
Thanks SC for providing this space, sorry that it will not flourish further.
Echoing what DOEPUBLIC said.

Yup. I feel like there are a number of questions/issues/puzzles inside me to discuss that would come out over time, but that are so used to being unexpressed they are hard to grasp and put into words.

But I appreciate the existence of this board even if temporary, and the work SC and AR have been doing. Nothing lasts forever but it's been good. Thanks, all!

Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :

I'd like to echo the thanks already expressed.

This board has, on the whole, felt like a "safe space" where most people didn't feel the need to try to drag doubters back to faith. I am not too sure where I am at the moment, but it has been immensely valuable to be able to share space with people who understand faith not making sense, but simultaneously feel the pain of this - it can be like a bereavement or perhaps a divorce, when something that was a big component of your life is no longer in place.

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