Ship of Fools: How good is your Revspeak?

Thread: How good is your Revspeak? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Now Christmas is over. We're moving into Epiphany, the manifestation of Christ to the Gentiles.

We've all heard of George Orwell's Newspeak. Have you met Revspeak? Revspeak is language that only Revs use.

Revspeak is a language that it is incomprehensible to ordinary people. Obviously there is the technical stuff that is Revspeak, words like 'justification', 'sacrament', 'ferial' and 'Epiphany'. It's particularly useful if its native speakers can mean different things by the same word, but not admit it to each other - 'sacrament' is a good word for that. And it's very beneficial if the words are befuddling but give you a nice gooey holy feeling as they come out of your mouth.

But Revspeak is particularly good if it can take ordinary words and use them in ways that don't fit with how ordinary people use them and don't make sense to them.

Here's three bits of Revspeak:-

1. 'Church' with no article as in 'a new way of doing church'.

2. 'Intentional' as in 'St Saviours aspires to be an intentional community'.

3. And a particular favourite of Common Worship, 'offer', as in 'Intercessions are offered'.

I don't know what those phrases convey. Do you?

What do Shipmates think? For their users, I'm sure the words carry that gooey holy feeling. Do they mark the users as 'one of us'?

And what other examples can you give of Revspeak?

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

2. 'Intentional' as in 'St Saviours aspires to be an intentional community'.

Is that anything like "conscious uncoupling"?

Posted by Signaller (# 17495) on :

quote:
Over in Purgatory: If the leadership has a heart for discipleship, prayer and mission...

Any Revs out there care to translate?

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Signaller:
Over in Purgatory:
If the leadership has a heart for discipleship, prayer and mission...

That's definitely Revspeak. 'Have a heart for' works like a switch. It throws both a sentence and a person's tongue into Revspeak.

Posted by Angel Wrestler (# 13673) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Signaller:

quote:
Over in Purgatory: If the leadership has a heart for discipleship, prayer and mission...
Any Revs out there care to translate?

If the board members/vestry/Presbytery have a passion to encourage practices that enhance and deepen their own and other church members' relationship with God, if they have a passion and commitment to pray and if they have a passion and commitment to help people in need...

"worshipping" - v - the act of devoting oneself to a deity
"worshipping" in some revspeak - v - a means of counting worship attendees - as in, "we're worshipping 150 every Sunday morning" (let it be known that I very much dislike this use of the word)

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
... "we're worshipping 150 every Sunday morning" ...

Worshipping 150 what, exactly?

I'd never heard that particular mangling of the language before, and now I'm going to need some brain-bleach to try and un-hear it ... [Eek!]

[ 06. January 2015, 01:11: Message edited by: Piglet ]

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Well, Disc World has millions of gods. Maybe people are hedging their bets by worshipping a different set of 150 each Sunday?

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:

quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
... "we're worshipping 150 every Sunday morning" ...
Worshipping 150 what, exactly?

I'd never heard that particular mangling of the language before, and now I'm going to need some brain-bleach to try and un-hear it ...

No. I haven't. And I agree.

Anyway, here are four more:-

'Worship leader' - in Revspeak that sometimes doesn't mean the Rev in robes at the front but the person leading the music - in Revspeak 'praise band'.

X was 'raised to the episcopate'. At least it's not too difficult to work out what that means. Nevertheless, anyone who isn't fluent in Revspeak says 'made a bishop'. Non-Revspeak speakers don't say that Y was 'raised to the managing directorate'.

'Let us pray for our dear brother/sister Y who is struggling with the demon of drink/lust/anger/insecurity addiction'. Apart from being a Revspeak way of gossiping and sounding pious at the same time, blaming it on a supernatural cause lets Y and the rest of us off the hook.

'Prophetic'. An ordinary person who knows a bit about the Bible probably thinks this means either foretelling the future or having supernatural insights from God. You need at least a smattering of Revspeak to realise that it's just as likely to mean 'preaches left-wing sermons with a very loud voice'.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
'Prophetic'. An ordinary person who knows a bit about the Bible probably thinks this means either foretelling the future or having supernatural insights from God. You need at least a smattering of Revspeak to realise that it's just as likely to mean 'preaches left-wing sermons with a very loud voice'.

To some folk that might not be "prophetic" at all but "unduly political" or even "heretical"!

Mind you it sounds a bit like "Yes, Minister's" usages of "brave" and "courageous".

PS Thinking of the "worshipping 150" - when did people coming to church become "attendees" rather than "attenders"? Surely an "attendee" is someone who is attended upon, such as a hospital patient of a restaurant diner?

[ 06. January 2015, 13:57: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by The Midge (# 2398) on :

'Deeper Church' is our latest buzz phrase. Maybe we are trying to fathom the bottom of the baptism pool?

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Midge:
'Deeper Church' is our latest buzz phrase.

Have you started holding your services in the crypt?

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:

quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
... "we're worshipping 150 every Sunday morning" ...
Worshipping 150 what, exactly?

I'd never heard that particular mangling of the language before, and now I'm going to need some brain-bleach to try and un-hear it ...

That's an example of 'verbing' which is a cornerstone* of RevSpeak. My (un)favourite is fellowshipping, which sounds like one of our church regulars has been parcelled up and sent by DHL or UPS.

*Cornerstone is another, and almost as meaningless. Any stone can be a cornerstone, so long as it is placed at the corner.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

PS Thinking of the "worshipping 150" - when did people coming to church become "attendees" rather than "attenders"? Surely an "attendee" is someone who is attended upon, such as a hospital patient of a restaurant diner?

On 'worshipping 150': don't know about anyone else here, but when we worship, we worship One, or at most Three-in-One.

I suppose 'attendee' is by analogy with 'standee', a word whose formation I've never quite understood.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:

I suppose 'attendee' is by analogy with 'standee', a word whose formation I've never quite understood.

Escapee? Refugee? Absentee?

Is a person who is not a standee a settee?

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

If anyone dares use the term "breaking through" I have to restrain myself from doing just that to their nasal septum.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

"Commingling" to describe the sex act.

"Called" to mean "offered the job."

Posted by Signaller (# 17495) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:

I suppose 'attendee' is by analogy with 'standee', a word whose formation I've never quite understood.

I blame Wodehouse:

quote:
I wandered in and took my place among the standees at the back...Like all rustic standees, these were stern, implacable men, utterly incapable of taking the broad, charitable view and realizing that a fellow who comes on a platform and starts reciting about Christopher Robin going hoppity-hoppity-hop (or, alternatively, saying his prayers) does not do so from sheer wantonness but because he is a helpless victim of circumstances beyond his control.(The Mating Season)

Posted by Horseman Bree (# 5290) on :

I will offer "witnessing", which IRL means actually seeing some part of a particular action. In revspeak, it means giving a testimonial to some internal thing which only the speaker has the faintest clue about, and that usually wrong.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

"Love offering": hitting the attendees up for cash, to prove how much they appreciate you.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
That's an example of 'verbing' which is a cornerstone* of RevSpeak. My (un)favourite is fellowshipping, which sounds like one of our church regulars has been parcelled up and sent by DHL or UPS.

Another one is "Discipling".

A previous vicar at my church would use the word "ministry" to describe any odd job around the church - cleaning ministry, gardening minstry, you name it. I often give a disabled lady a lift home from church on a Sunday and the vicar once thanked/congratulated me on performing "transport ministry".

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Revs (and other preachers) used to use the phrase 'please be seated', at intervals during the service. I guess they thought that sounded too churchy, because they now say 'please take a seat'. I'm surprised we have any left.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"Commingling" to describe the sex act.

"Called" to mean "offered the job."

The RCC my Sainted Aunt attended ran bingo each week, so I suppose the guy who read out the numbers had a "calling calling".

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
... A previous vicar at my church would use the word "ministry" to describe any odd job around the church - cleaning ministry, gardening minstry, you name it. I often give a disabled lady a lift home from church on a Sunday and the vicar once thanked/congratulated me on performing "transport ministry".

That's a gem. Were you 'released into transport ministry'? And by posting here, you are 'releasing yourself to share in web based ministry'.

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

And if you take the parish magazines round to people, is that a deliverance ministry?

(Unashamedly nicked from Adrian Plass, in case he's reading...!)

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
And if you take the parish magazines round to people, is that a deliverance ministry?

Don't you need a banjo for that ministry?

Posted by Kittyville (# 16106) on :

Paddle faster!

Sorry, I'll get me coat.

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Revs (and other preachers) used to use the phrase 'please be seated', at intervals during the service. I guess they thought that sounded too churchy, because they now say 'please take a seat'. I'm surprised we have any left.

Confessions time:
1) I do still say "please be seated" out of sheer habit and against my own better judgement (especially as 99% of people there most Sundays know full well when it's time to sit down).

2) The last set of church meeting minutes said that I "took the chair". I had to confess to the person who wrote them that I wanted to add "but was told to bring it back" to the end of that sentence.

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
That's a gem. Were you 'released into transport ministry'? And by posting here, you are 'releasing yourself to share in web based ministry'.

"Releasing into..." something is one I've heard quite a lot, especially in Baptist circles. With my cynical hat on, I can't help but think it means something like "Being minister of a congregation isn't exciting/sexy enough for me, so I'm going to do something else instead but still be paid by my church."

I might just be being very cynical today, though...

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"Commingling" to describe the sex act.

That term is usually used when they put a bit of the wafer into the chalice.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
X was 'raised to the episcopate'.

Some of us say 'lowered'.

As for 'released into' - is this the Revspeak equivalent of being 'let go'? Or am I equating it too much with being 'released into the wild'?

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"Commingling" to describe the sex act.

That term is usually used when they put a bit of the wafer into the chalice.

Look here, about two-thirds of the way down the page. A line uttered in one of my favorite films, Harold and Maude, by one of my favorite cameo actors, Harold Christmas.

I remember attending many a retreat at school, where attendance at said retreats was required, where the priest warned us in no uncertain terms against the dire consequences of "commingling."

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

"Released into" can have rather sinister overtones as it is associated with the covering movement in US pentecostalism, whereby someone with some gifting or another is prevented from using that gift in church until they are deemed to have fully submitted to a covering elder, whereupon they are then "released into" the use of their gift. See Rob McAlpine's Post-Charismatic for some damning testimonies.

Posted by Charles Read (# 3963) on :

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
... A previous vicar at my church would use the word "ministry" to describe any odd job around the church - cleaning ministry, gardening minstry, you name it. I often give a disabled lady a lift home from church on a Sunday and the vicar once thanked/congratulated me on performing "transport ministry".
That's a gem. Were you 'released into transport ministry'? And by posting here, you are 'releasing yourself to share in web based ministry'.

And you were released into this ministry by passing your driving test...

Posted by Charles Read (# 3963) on :

Also: birthing (as a verb) - e.g. 'we birthed a new home group' No you did not - you set one up or launched it or brought it to birth.

Here are some dialect versions of Revspeak from the world of ministry training:

'enabling the ministry of others' (= they are not a prima donna)
'deep pastoral wisdom' as in X needs to develop DPW in his next year in training (which = 'he would be a disaster as a minister if we ordained him right now, but he's got a year to sort himself out')
'inhabit the tradition' as in X struggles to inhabit the (Anglican) tradition' (= they have never heard of Cranmer, use Common Worship to prop us a wobbly table and don't intend to obey the bishop, the canons or their incumbent).

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
'Worship leader' - in Revspeak that sometimes doesn't mean the Rev in robes at the front but the person leading the music - in Revspeak 'praise band'.

Not "leading the music"! Performing the worship set.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
"Released into" can have rather sinister overtones as it is associated with the covering movement in US pentecostalism, whereby someone with some gifting or another is prevented from using that gift in church until they are deemed to have fully submitted to a covering elder, whereupon they are then "released into" the use of their gift. See Rob McAlpine's Post-Charismatic for some damning testimonies.

"Covering" also often has to do with a headship model of male/female gender roles. When I was teaching in eastern Africa, the dean (apologetically) explained to me that I needed my husband's "covering"-- meaning he had to be in the room whenever I was teaching. He usually used that time to catch up on his reading.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
And if you take the parish magazines round to people, is that a deliverance ministry?

Don't you need a banjo for that ministry?

quote:
Originally posted by Kittyville:
Paddle faster!

Sorry, I'll get me coat.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

historical tangent/

No! No! The origin of "covering" is explained in the parable of Chiefs and Indians:

quote:
A curious term arising from an ancient writing referring to a squaw who was covered by a famous chief's blanket

/historical tangent

[ 08. January 2015, 16:03: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

Missional (er?)

Listen Church (do walls have ears too?)

Share bread and wine: do communion (let's have a bit of bread and a small cup of grape juice)

Community (what is it that you have in "common")

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Performing the worship set.

Oh, I forgot. Which you move into.

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

Don't forget that the best way to prove your ideas have logical structure is to show that they all begin with the same letter. Or can be arranged to form a cutesy acronym.

(Although to be fair this is beloved of the pointy-haired boss school of management as well.)

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

"And finally," used to mean the sermon is almost half way through.

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Revs (and other preachers) used to use the phrase 'please be seated', at intervals during the service. I guess they thought that sounded too churchy, because they now say 'please take a seat'. I'm surprised we have any left.

I was actually teased at a church event for my habit of saying 'please sit' or 'please sit down' instead of the 'proper' 'please be seated'. I was not amused. [Mad]

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Don't forget that the best way to prove your ideas have logical structure is to show that they all begin with the same letter. Or can be arranged to form a cutesy acronym.

(Although to be fair this is beloved of the pointy-haired boss school of management as well.)

Which leads to another aspect of Revspeak: borrowing vocabulary from business leadership models. See "shared vision", "buy in", "pursuit of excellence", "mission statement", "political capitol" and "incentivizing"... (Closely related to mastering the art of writing books composed of three rather obvious statements written in large font with wide margins interspersed with one cutesy analogy involving a frog and hot water or a mouse and his cheese.)

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
"And finally," used to mean the sermon is almost half way through.

There is some biblical precedent for that...

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

One of our worship leaders is keen on the term 'Son worship' which sounds way too Aztec for my liking.

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :

And the phrase "Let us pray" said at the end of the readings, psalms and etcs in a service if Morning Prayer, before the prayers of intercession. What the speaker thinks we have been doing for the last 15 mins or so is utterly beyond my comprehension.... [Mad]

Posted by The Midge (# 2398) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
... A previous vicar at my church would use the word "ministry" to describe any odd job around the church - cleaning ministry, gardening minstry, you name it. I often give a disabled lady a lift home from church on a Sunday and the vicar once thanked/congratulated me on performing "transport ministry".
That's a gem. Were you 'released into transport ministry'? And by posting here, you are 'releasing yourself to share in web based ministry'.
And you were released into this ministry by passing your driving test...

Our Vicar elevated it to the status of "The highest honour ministry". In our context it meant putting the chairs out/ away.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by St Everild:
And the phrase "Let us pray"....

Do you ever feel the urge to intone back "Do we have to?" Or on a better day, "O, all right then".

Posted by The Midge (# 2398) on :

"Lettuce Pray? I will never be cruel to a salad again."

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

Or "Let us spray" at the blessing of the animals.

[Miss Amanda will get her wrap.]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
One of our worship leaders is keen on the term 'Son worship' which sounds way too Aztec for my liking.

Perhaps you should invite him/her to meet you at the top of a pyramid, and bring along your sharpest knife.

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

Dear everybody, this is wonderful, keep it up: I am learning so much about how to phrase our Parish Profile to find the right minister [Devil]

Talking of which, what the hell does Collaborative Ministry mean? Do you believe in collaborative ministry? Yes, collaborate with me or else: I Am The Vicar...

Without stretching it's meaning, this meaningless phrase can be affirmed by every kind of Vicar from a Human Floormat to Stalin's Hit Man. And don't get me started on Affirming.....

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

Community

Especially if it's a 'gathered community'.

Which I think means 'most of the electoral roll live outside the parish boundaries', but I may be wrong.

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

'Gathered community' = 'Religious Club'. I heard one such 'church' described recently as a Yacht Club with hymns ....

Posted by The Midge (# 2398) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:

Talking of which, what the hell does Collaborative Ministry mean? Do you believe in collaborative ministry? Yes, collaborate with me or else: I Am The Vicar...

Without stretching it's meaning, this meaningless phrase can be affirmed by every kind of Vicar from a Human Floormat to Stalin's Hit Man. And don't get me started on Affirming.....

It could mean that the Church Wardens or the PCC or even the person who runs the flower rota is really in charge.

Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :

"going through a season of XXX" - why is it always a "season," rather than the more common "time" or "period"?

"we will now have a time of prayer" = "we will now pray"

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

Never use the words 'country' or 'nation', or 'people' when the words 'land' or 'folk' will do, nor when they won't do.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dal Segno:
"going through a season of XXX" - why is it always a "season," rather than the more common "time" or "period"?

"we will now have a time of prayer" = "we will now pray"

Isn't it often a 'Season of £££'?

(insert currency symbol to taste)

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Some more,

"Inclusive" - Very useful word as highly ambiguous. Can mean anything from 'we let non-conformists take communion' to 'gay friendly' to 'we have a hearing aid loop'.

"Servant leader" - meant to resonate with Lk 22:26-27, which is a very important statement by Jesus and one which almost nobody takes as seriously as they should. But what do users of the phrase mean by it?

"Passionate' - particularly good word to use if one doesn't go on to say what you or someone else is passionate about.

"Mission community" - good phrase to use as it pairs up two words that are both already a big temptation to fluent Revspeakers.

Offered, speaking slightly cynically, collaborative ministry is quite a good phrase to put in an advert. These days, nobody dares claim they don't believe in it. Very few clergy will openly say that they believe that 'Father knows best' is of the essence of ministry. But its very woolliness does mean you can use it to tease quite a lot out of applicants at interview by asking them how they understand it.

Mind, the average clerical job advert is looking for an array of skills and personal qualities that very few canonised saints could meet.

[ 09. January 2015, 14:35: Message edited by: Enoch ]

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

Our minister heard some confounded motivational speaker rattle on about coconut and peach congregations, meaning ones that were tough or easy to penetrate. I objected on the grounds that if you bite on a peach stone you're going to break your teeth anyway, but, as usual, was told that I just didn't understand. So now he's got everyone (except me) talking about how we aspire to be a peachy congregation. I barf.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Our minister heard some confounded motivational speaker rattle on about coconut and peach congregations, meaning ones that were tough or easy to penetrate. I objected on the grounds that if you bite on a peach stone you're going to break your teeth anyway, but, as usual, was told that I just didn't understand. So now he's got everyone (except me) talking about how we aspire to be a peachy congregation. I barf.

Is that a fresh peach or canned peach congo? They do differ.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Revs (and other preachers) used to use the phrase 'please be seated', at intervals during the service. I guess they thought that sounded too churchy, because they now say 'please take a seat'. I'm surprised we have any left.
I was actually teased at a church event for my habit of saying 'please sit' or 'please sit down' instead of the 'proper' 'please be seated'. I was not amused.

This is one of the things which grates on me because it sounds so parsonical. You can imagine the vicar in Dad's Army saying 'please be seated.' But even worse is when clergy say 'would you like to be seated?' or 'Shall we stand to sing…?"

Anyway, it leads to a different (and Ecclesiantical) tangent: why so many pointless stage directions in the middle of a service?

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

You can't just go 'Siiiiit. Sit! Good congo!' No?

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

Calling the building a "Worship Center" or "Praise Center". Whatever happened to "Church"?

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Our minister heard some confounded motivational speaker rattle on about coconut and peach congregations, meaning ones that were tough or easy to penetrate. I objected on the grounds that if you bite on a peach stone you're going to break your teeth anyway, but, as usual, was told that I just didn't understand. So now he's got everyone (except me) talking about how we aspire to be a peachy congregation. I barf.

Permit me to vomit.

Likewise Miss Amanda's

quote:
Calling the building a "Worship Center" or "Praise Center".

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
"Mission community" - good phrase to use as it pairs up two words that are both already a big temptation to fluent Revspeakers.

Naughty Enoch - you've not been listening to Uncle Alan in class again, have you? Remember you must add " -al" to words, as often as you possibly can. If you can change your name to Al it might help.

So repeat after me, it's not Mission Community but "Missional Community." There: easy isn't it?

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

"Folk(s)" - far too twee and reminiscent of some vile type of finger in the ear music all about May mornings and September evenings when you go out but don't actually travel anywhere.

Get real: it's "people". I have told Mrs Mark that if I ever use the "f ..." word when referring to people, she will gain a good sense reward if she kills me on the spot.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
... Likewise Miss Amanda's

quote:
Calling the building a "Worship Center" or "Praise Center".

That most certainly makes the Baby Jesus cry.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

<tangent>

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
"Folk(s)" - far too twee and reminiscent of some vile type of finger in the ear music all about May mornings and September evenings when you go out but don't actually travel anywhere.

If it's a May morning* it's normally for the purpose of fornication. I can't offhand think of any autumnal outings.

*Hurrah! Hurrah! The first of May!
Outdoor sex begins today!

</tangent>

Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :

'Gifting'. As in "He has a gifting for pastoral ministry", or "We should be empowering everyone to use their giftings."

The word is GIFT. [Mad]

And to go with 'verbing, what about 'nouning'? I mean the penchant in prayer or hymns for a list of compound names for God, all ending in -er. I think it is meant to make God sound all dynamic. There is a hymn in CH4 which addresses the Holy Spirit variously as:

gift bestower
love inspirer
joy releaser
peace restorer
Christ proclaimer
wisdom bringer
ease disturber
comfort bearer
truth revealer
faith confirmer

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

*Hurrah! Hurrah! The first of May!
Outdoor sex begins today!

</tangent>

1 May 1963, then?

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
That most certainly makes the Baby Jesus cry.

Good Christians don't cry, they weep.

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

I always cringe at the request to "kindly stand". I wonder how you go about unkindly standing.

Posted by cosmic dance (# 14025) on :

From my neck of the woods I offer:
"appropriately vulnerable" - ready to share your darkest secrets at a moment's notice to prove your commitment and sincerity.
"deeply impacted" - it made an impression on me at the time.

Posted by Photo Geek (# 9757) on :

The use of the word "anointing" when no oil is involved definitely makes the baby Jesus cry.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

*Hurrah! Hurrah! The first of May!
Outdoor sex begins today!

</tangent>
1 May 1963, then?

We should stop larkin' about.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

Not sure what y'all find so objectionable about good old English words such as "folk" and "land". Personally, I think they're preferable to the equivalent words of French origin, and have certainly been around a lot longer in this land.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

*Hurrah! Hurrah! The first of May!
Outdoor sex begins today!

</tangent>
1 May 1963, then?
We should stop larkin' about.

I remember my Dad saying a variant of that, which included the F word. How apt.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Cosmic Dance, yes, "vulnerable" used as a desirable attribute is Revspeak. It goes with 'finding one's inner child'. And, yes, Cottontail, in Revspeak give (verb) and gift (noun) have developed peculiar permutations, none of which extend the use of English in any valuable way. "Let us give thanks for X who has gifted the church with a lawn-mower'.

Perhaps some of us need a 'gifting of missional vulnerability' - or is that 'vulnerable missionality' - or is there any difference?

On sitting down, there's always the slightly jocular phrase, 'take a pew'. Pews only exist where Revspeak is spoken.

An extra query. Is there something significant about 1st May 1963? It's well within my lifetime but I can't remember anything particular happening that day. The most well known date that year was 22nd November.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Is there something significant about 1st May 1963?

Sexual intercourse began
In nineteen sixty three
(Which was rather late for me)

Philip Larkin

(The 1st May arises out of the context of the thread.)

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Is there something significant about 1st May 1963?
Sexual intercourse began
In nineteen sixty three
(Which was rather late for me)

Philip Larkin

(The 1st May arises out of the context of the thread.)

Thank you for that. My brain must be slowing down. I was fixated on the assumption that it must be something specific about the day. I didn't think of the year.

[ 10. January 2015, 11:41: Message edited by: Enoch ]

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).

Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :

Is anyone designing a revspeak bingo card to use tomorrow?

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).

Pyx_e, are you prepared to admit which ones?!! As a matter of interest, are you or anyone else prepared to stick their head over the parapet and defend any of these expressions?

Chocaholic, what a lovely idea.

Posted by Eirenist (# 13343) on :

'Commingling' goes back to John Milton; in Paradise Lost the angels enjoy 'a sweet commingling'. Philip Pullman's angels in 'His Dark Materials' probably do it quite a lot.

And how about 'Hold before God' meaning 'Pray for'?

For sitting down and standing up, my Vicar uses 'If you would stand/sit . . .' Oh, and I mustn't forget 'We will now sing together Hymn . . . ' as opposed presumably to singing a verse each.

Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).
Pyx_e, are you prepared to admit which ones?!! As a matter of interest, are you or anyone else prepared to stick their head over the parapet and defend any of these expressions?

Chocaholic, what a lovely idea.

Not defending them, or not all of them, but I find the directions to sit, stand, sing, say together, etc very helpful, both as congregation member and when leading. Especially when there are people present who aren't familiar with things. It is very embarrassing for people to be left sitting or standing when others aren't. Especially if they are at the front. Even worse if you start singing and it's just the choir.

I have always felt much more comfortable with clear directions, thinking it is a courtesy.

But you can't just say "sit", "stand", or whatever. What form of words is acceptable? Any suggestions?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

One that was beloved in free churches was about 'the stewards will now wait upon your offerings'.

And I love it when their service sheets announce 'the benediction' - it's not how I use the term.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:

Anyway, it leads to a different (and Ecclesiantical) tangent: why so many pointless stage directions in the middle of a service?

Because some people get really pissy when they're left standing looking round them, and all the 'in-crowd' have sat down. Visitors really hate that - and in churches where there is a bit of a variety of worship-leader - and practice therefore varies - even regulars dislike being put on the back-foot by unusual and badly signposted congregational choreography.

It is also a fact that there will always be a small core of even the most regular attender who will never remember from one week's end to the next to sit/stand/leave at the appropriate point unless someone tells him/her to. Including, sadly, the odd cleric who manages to make even the most routine act of liturgy look like something he's never seen in his life before, rather than something he's been performing professionaly for the last fifteen years.

Small, exclusively attended acts of worship tend not to need prompts, fair enough. But sometimes it's just plain friendly and practical to indicate when certain physical things observed by everyone, need to happen at certain times of the service. Though some services really ought to flow without interruption if possible.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
One that was beloved in free churches was about 'the stewards will now wait upon your offerings'. ...

Yes, that's a gem. Do they get a tip for collecting it?. As is referring to part of the collection, usually the bit that isn't in envelopes, as the 'freewill offering'. What's the rest, pew-rent?

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

"An offering will be received" is similar. Why not "A collection will be taken up."

Reminds me of the old joke about the altar boy named Dominic, who thought that the priest, whenever he said "Dominus vobiscum" was actually saying "Dominic, go frisk 'em", and so he took up the collection.

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
One that was beloved in free churches was about 'the stewards will now wait upon your offerings'.

Nope it is not. It is only Methodists who'd use that the rest of us do not have stewards.

Jengie

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
One that was beloved in free churches was about 'the stewards will now wait upon your offerings'.

And I love it when their service sheets announce 'the benediction' - it's not how I use the term.

I remember that from growing up. My standard phrase, which I also grew up with, is "We will receive your offerings for the work of God in this Church and Circuit."

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Hang on, I thought that the offering had to be "uplifted". But perhaps that is only true in congregations where the Minister says, "Let us now be upstanding and singing the hymn no. 123 ...".

Has anyone had "journeying mercies" prayed upon them? - although I don't think that is necessarily Revspeak.

Of course, visiting preachers find it "a joy and a privilege to be here this morning". (Or, if they don't, they don't let on). However it is Church Secretaries who say that "it is good to have new faces worshipping with us today, and we look forward to shaking hands with them afterwards".

[ 10. January 2015, 19:18: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

Has anyone had "journeying mercies" prayed upon them? - although I don't think that is necessarily Revspeak.

Travelling mercies. (Which I always visualised as a sort of wheeled box).

Also, no one was ever merely ill - they were laid aside on beds of sickness.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

This is wonderfully reminiscent of Myles nagCopaleen's great Catechism of Cliche (Google will find you various extracts).

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
... Has anyone had "journeying mercies" prayed upon them? - although I don't think that is necessarily Revspeak.,,,,

Does it meet any of the following tests from the OP?

quote:
it is incomprehensible to ordinary people. ... And it's very beneficial if the words are befuddling but give you a nice gooey holy feeling as they come out of your mouth.

But Revspeak is particularly good if it can take ordinary words and use them in ways that don't fit with how ordinary people use them and don't make sense to them.

It's Revspeak all right.

[ 10. January 2015, 21:08: Message edited by: Enoch ]

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

I remember reading somewhere of a minister who realised he'd swallowed some kind of Revspeak dictionary when someone asked him which bus to take for a particular destination.

Bus number two hundred and sixty-seven, he replied. The two hundred and sixty-seventh bus. (Pause) Two. Six. Seven.

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).
Pyx_e, are you prepared to admit which ones?!! As a matter of interest, are you or anyone else prepared to stick their head over the parapet and defend any of these expressions?

"Cosmic dance." is the one I will admit to. Not always using the cosmic word but certainly my sermons are littered with dance analogies. For me the music/dance analogy works to describe Kingdom Grace.
quote

I don't let on it's a possible Nietzsche quote.

[ 10. January 2015, 21:42: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Also, no one was ever merely ill - they were laid aside on beds of sickness.

They were also "under the doctor"!

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
... Bus number two hundred and sixty-seven, he replied. The two hundred and sixty-seventh bus. (Pause) Two. Six. Seven.

That reminds me of D's favourite piece of cricket commentary (I'm paraphrasing, as I can't find the exact quotation):

quote:
And England are on 106 - that's There is a green hill far away.

(in the English Hymnal). [Big Grin]

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
... Has anyone had "journeying mercies" prayed upon them? - although I don't think that is necessarily Revspeak.,,,,

I'll own to praying that, although not in public in English.

To my mind, it encompasses a lot more than a St Christopher's medal. It doesn't try and blackmail God into getting you there on time or unscathed, just asks for mercy in whatever happens.

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Also, no one was ever merely ill - they were laid aside on beds of sickness.
They were also "under the doctor"!

As a slight tangent, non-Rev French speakers from Breton-speaking regions have, under the influence of the latter language, been known to explain in the vernacular that their spouse is confined to bed on medical advice as follows: ma femme est au lit avec le médecin - "my wife is in bed with the doctor".

[ 11. January 2015, 07:16: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
... Has anyone had "journeying mercies" prayed upon them? - although I don't think that is necessarily Revspeak.,,,,
I'll own to praying that, although not in public in English.

To my mind, it encompasses a lot more than a St Christopher's medal. It doesn't try and blackmail God into getting you there on time or unscathed, just asks for mercy in whatever happens.

...which reminds me of an anecdote about St. Teresa of Avila. She and a young nun were traveling to start a new convent. Their coach went off a bridge and into a river. The driver was killed. I think the young nun survived. Teresa yelled at God, "if this is the way You treat Your friends, no wonder You have so few!!!"

Posted by cosmic dance (# 14025) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).
Pyx_e, are you prepared to admit which ones?!! As a matter of interest, are you or anyone else prepared to stick their head over the parapet and defend any of these expressions?
"Cosmic dance." is the one I will admit to. Not always using the cosmic word but certainly my sermons are littered with dance analogies. For me the music/dance analogy works to describe Kingdom Grace.
quote

I don't let on it's a possible Nietzsche quote.

My name litters your sermons? I am deeply honoured Pyx-e. When can we meet?

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
.... They were also "under the doctor"!
As a slight tangent, non-Rev French speakers from Breton-speaking regions have, under the influence of the latter language, been known to explain in the vernacular that their spouse is confined to bed on medical advice as follows: ma femme est au lit avec le médecin - "my wife is in bed with the doctor".

Tangent alert
Curious. To me 'under the doctor' is a Wenglish classic. If there's a related idiom in Breton French, perhaps they are both translations of something in Welsh/Breton.
End of Tangent

There are some wonderful examples coming out. Keep up the good work.

I don't think, by the way, that Cosmic Dance is automatically Revspeak as it is genuinely trying to get across an idea that is quite difficult to communicate. However, it is an expression that can tempt one into Revspeak.

Might one of the reasons why Revspeak is such a temptation be that communicating what is partly incommunicable is quite difficult. It becomes a convenient cop-out to use words in stead that are 'befuddling but give you a nice gooey holy feeling as they come out of your mouth'? Once one thinks one has got away with it for the stuff that is incommunicable, it becomes a drug to get one through every occasion.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

The friendly doctors are common in Ulster as well. As is 'She's in bed with her leg' (or whatever bodily part is afflicted).

Meanwhile, I remember one didn't have relatives and children, but 'loved ones and little ones'.

Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :

Can it really be that no-one has come up with 'mission-shaped diocese'?

Mrs. S, shaking her head in disbelief [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on :

I do feel that this thread is aimed at me personally... [Paranoid]

However, as both a Rev and a civil servant, it may just be possible that I have on occasion and when faced with a situation of perhaps less than optimal confidence been heard by those of especially precise auditory skills to have used one or two of the above-mentioned circumlocutions in preference to a more precise and one might say straightforward comment that might be thought to lead more quickly to a full and total comprehension of the situation pertaining at that moment in time.

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
As a slight tangent, non-Rev French speakers from Breton-speaking regions

Is that Revspeak for 'Brittany'? (I'll include Loire-Atlantique for these purposes!)

Posted by Signaller (# 17495) on :

[Overused]

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
As a slight tangent, non-Rev French speakers from Breton-speaking regions
Is that Revspeak for 'Brittany'? (I'll include Loire-Atlantique for these purposes!)

And that Breton on the map is by no means uniform. But we'd better stop that tangent fast ("draw it to a close"? will there be an "aftermath"?)

Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Meanwhile, I remember one didn't have relatives and children, but 'loved ones and little ones'.

"loved ones" has escaped from RevSpeak into JournoSpeak and PoliticoSpeak. People no longer have relatives or families, they have "loved ones".

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Have shipmates noticed that 'loved ones' are almost always either dead or somewhere else? The phrase is also uttered in a slightly reverential voice. Family that are present are very rarely, if ever, 'loved ones'.

People who aren't here at Christmas are 'loved ones'. People you actually spend Christmas aren't unless you yourself are telling people you are about to travel a long way to see them.

[ 11. January 2015, 22:16: Message edited by: Enoch ]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Nauseating expression which to me invariably brings to mind Evelyn Waugh's 'Whispering Glades'.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
... However, as both a Rev and a civil servant, it may just be possible that I have on occasion and when faced with a situation of perhaps less than optimal confidence been heard by those of especially precise auditory skills to have used one or two of the above-mentioned circumlocutions in preference to a more precise and one might say straightforward comment that might be thought to lead more quickly to a full and total comprehension of the situation pertaining at that moment in time ...

Quotes File! [Overused]

Are you Sir Humphrey Appleby IRL? [Big Grin]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"Commingling" to describe the sex act.

The liturgical mixing of a particle of the Sacred Host at Mass with the Precious Blood.

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

Cosmic, you have no need of me when you know the Prophet. "No method, no teacher, no guru..."

Posted by Weatherwax (# 11920) on :

"Radical welcome" which is Revspeak for "Open Table" which is Revspeak for "communion for the unbaptized..." (which is part of our Diversity) (which is part of being a mission-shaped community).

W.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Weatherwax:
"Radical welcome" which is Revspeak for "Open Table" which is Revspeak for "communion for the unbaptized..." (which is part of our Diversity) (which is part of being a mission-shaped community).

"Radical welcome" - I've not met that one before. As Revspeak, it's definitely got potential.

What is more, if it's being used for 'open table', that definitely meets the test in the OP,

quote:
It's particularly useful if its native speakers can mean different things by the same word, but not admit it to each other.

'Open table' usually means 'we admit to communion people who are Christians but not pukka members of our own ecclesial community'. I've not heard it being used to mean specifically "communion for the unbaptized...".

I reckon 'radical welcome' meets the other tests in the OP. It takes ordinary words and use them in ways that don't fit with how ordinary people use them, and wouldn't guess. It also gives the speaker a nice gooey holy feeling as they come out of his or her mouth.

Posted by Weatherwax (# 11920) on :

[Smile]

The Episcopal Church Welcomes You

Weatherwax

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

For some time now British Methodist preachers have used the phrase 'young people' when meaning 'children', often when referring to the youngsters in Sunday School. I remember one minister correcting himself mid-sentence, which made it pretty clear what was going on.

The problem, though, is that for Methodists, 'young people' can also refer to people up to their late forties, so discussions can sometimes give the impression that five year olds and forty-five year olds are more or less in the same exotic category, ('We must do something for the young people') with older people somehow representing the normative voice of the church. It can feel somewhat patronising.

On a related note, I dislike the phrase 'young people are the future of the church' (which I last heard in a church sketch just a few weeks ago). It implies that 'young people' will be important, but not just yet....

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Weatherwax:
[qb] Open table' usually means 'we admit to communion people who are Christians but not pukka members of our own ecclesial community'. I've not heard it being used to mean specifically "communion for the unbaptized...".

If it doesn't mean it explicitly it usually means it functionally. Logistically, once you have open communion for "all followers of Christ" it gets pretty awkward to address baptism as a condition, even when your polity suggests (as ours does) that communion be limited to baptized Christians-- so most of us don't, at least in my tradition.

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

I may have been dozing off at the presbytery meeting last night and missed the lead-in, but was jolted back by the phrase 'missional discernment' from someone presenting a report. Still no idea what he was talking about.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

I'd be prepared to stick my neck out and say that any phrase that includes the word 'missional' is going to turn out to be Revspeak.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

I still remember my fear and trembling when I was told to fetch a corporal and place it near the lavabo

Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
Are you Sir Humphrey Appleby IRL? [/QB]

You may think that: I couldn't possibly comment...

A new one to me is 'focal ministry' leading, inexorably, to 'focal ministers'. I think that they are meant to provide a focus for different communities - local focal ministers, anyone? - but to me sounds like they need to visit the optician, and soon. Given that we are creating Ministry Areas and Ministry Area Leaders, the last thing we want is more new language to describe clerics. They will still be called 'Vicar' or 'Rev', whether ordained or not, by most people anyway.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:

A new one to me is 'focal ministry' leading, inexorably, to 'focal ministers'. I think that they are meant to provide a focus for different communities - local focal ministers, anyone? - but to me sounds like they need to visit the optician, and soon. Given that we are creating Ministry Areas and Ministry Area Leaders, the last thing we want is more new language to describe clerics. They will still be called 'Vicar' or 'Rev', whether ordained or not, by most people anyway.

I suppose a minister from the agricultural working class appointed to a parish near his home would be a local yokel focal minister. He could use his voice a lot too [Biased]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

And if this was in Southern California and the minister was trying to lose weight, s/he could be a SoCal lo-cal local yokel focal vocal minister...

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Isuppose a minister from the agricultural working class appointed to a parish near his home would be a local yokel focal minister. He could use his voice a lot too

Birthplace San Diego, so a vocal local yokel focal minister from SoCal.

[ 16. January 2015, 21:06: Message edited by: Firenze ]

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

If one wants to mix Revspeak with a buzzword equivalent from another spheres of activity, does a 'focal minister' need a 'focus group'? If so, is the focus group the whole congregation, the PCC or a select group the focal minister has chosen because they think like him/her.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0