Thread: Election Rituals Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on
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There is a General Election coming up in the UK next week, and I was wondering if anyone else had a set of rituals they followed every time there's an election?
In our house we watch Duck Soup and drink something fizzy. It all started in 1992 when we'd brought a bottle of champagne to celebrate what we thought would be a Labour victory. We drank it anyway and then Channel 4 played Duck Soup at about 2 in the morning which cheered us up despite everything, so we've done the same every time since.
I love the anarchy of the Marx Brothers and the great lines such as 'If you think the country'a bad off now just wait till I get through with it.
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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No great rituals here, but I have a plan.
The election falls on working day 5, which is the busiest day of the month for me at work. I'll probably be working 8:30am-8pm. But I like watching the results come in.
That said, I get very frustrated by the long gaps early in the evening hours when there's lots on unenlightening speculation.
So the plan is to get up early and vote as soon as the polling station is open. I'll then head to work and have an awful day. On getting home at about 9ish, I'll go straight to bed and aim to get up at 3:30am (this is where my plan my well fall to pieces), watching the results when they actually become available.
I'll then get the bus to work, which takes me through Parliament Square, up Whitehall, past Downing Street, etc. So I'll see what I can see.
Posted by Mili (# 3254) on
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Elections here are always on a Saturday and voting is compulsory so nearly so there are voting booths close to everyone. My ritual is to walk to the booth and vote fairly early in the morning- not as soon as voting opens, but before the lines get too long. I grab 'how to vote cards' for the party I am voting for to use as a guide if I agree with their choices and politely decline those for other parties.
For the house of representatives we have to number each candidate from 1 onwards in order of preference. This is easy as each party only has one candidate to vote for, so not many boxes to fill. For the senate we can put a 1 for our party of choice above the line or number each candidate below the line. There are multiple candidates and lots of small, obscure parties represented. If I was a truly serious voter I would vote below the line. However I get a little anxious voting and worry enough about accidentally voting for the wrong person without filling in dozens of boxes, so I always vote above the line.
My local voting booths have always been at schools, so my after voting tradition is to grab a sausage in bread from the fundraiser sausage sizzle to eat on the way home.
I never watch the full results, but will check in on them on the internet during the evening. Usually we know the same night who has won, though two Federal elections ago it took days to find out which was nerve wracking. I was in Ethiopia that year with my parents (did an early vote that election). We kept ringing home and couldn't believe the results weren't known yet!
I also voted in a Federal election in London once at the Australian Embassy. No sausages, but the Labour Party volunteers handing out the how to vote cards gave out home made lamingtons.
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mili:
Elections here are always on a Saturday and voting is compulsory so nearly so there are voting booths close to everyone. My ritual is to walk to the booth and vote fairly early in the morning- not as soon as voting opens, but before the lines get too long. I grab 'how to vote cards' for the party I am voting for to use as a guide if I agree with their choices and politely decline those for other parties. to fill.
My local voting booths have always been at schools, so my after voting tradition is to grab a sausage in bread from the fundraiser sausage sizzle to eat on the way home.
I also voted in a Federal election in London once at the Australian Embassy. No sausages, but the Labour Party volunteers handing out the how to vote cards gave out home made lamingtons.
Our motto on voting day is the old one of vote early, vote often and vote for the dead.
Around here, many booths are at schools but the one we often vote at is at a church. Not just a sausage sizzle, but cakes, jams, pickles and so forth are on sale to raise money for various causes. If I am charged with electoral fraud, I shall say that I attended 3 or 4 booths to give a wide range of support to charities.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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I take a slight detour on my way to vote, to go past the grave of our local suffragette. A wee acknowledgement of gratitude.
When the kids were at home, I always insisted on taking them with me (including the suffragette grave stop), and telling them that it was both a privilege and a duty to vote, whilst they did the teenage sighing and rolling eyes thing.
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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What's a lamington? Is it some special sort of leaflet?
Interesting description of different ways of doing things. Fundraisers, tellers etc aren't allowed in polling stations and the usual owners of the building are excluded for the day from all of it or that part of it. So there would be no question of serving voters with food. It's also illegal for candidates or their parties to treat voters. So parties providing food would almost certainly infringe that.
A lot of us make a point of refusing to tell tellers who we are or which way we intend to vote. The tellers aren't usually too bad here, but in another town where I lived once, I thought they were seriously intimidating, glaring at you with a sort of 'you vote for our man or else' expression. I didn't.
Posted by maryjones (# 13523) on
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I'm shocked! When I vote, I hand my card over if I've remembered where I put it. In any case, the tellers often know me.
NEVER has a teller or anybody else in the polling station asked me how I voted or tried to influence me. If they did, I'd report it.
As a teacher (now retired), I asked my pupils, every election, who they thought was the person who chose the one to rule the country. Some of their responses were interesting! They were startled when I told them that I do the choosing. W all agreed it's a good thing that I have some help!
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
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Our polling station is in the bowls hut in the park, so I walk the dogs down, vote - then the dogs get a lovely run in the park.
It's a very lovely park, here is a photo.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
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I really can't remember the last time I voted at a polling place. I receive my ballot by mail (something which is being encouraged more and more), fill it in in the comfort of my own home, and either mail it back or drop it off at a designated place before or on Election Day.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
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I started a ritual one year - a glass of wine to celebrate every Labour gain through the night.
That was the year of Tony Blair's labour landslide victory and I was mightly hungover at work the next day.
Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on
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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
I take a slight detour on my way to vote, to go past the grave of our local suffragette. A wee acknowledgement of gratitude.
When the kids were at home, I always insisted on taking them with me (including the suffragette grave stop), and telling them that it was both a privilege and a duty to vote, whilst they did the teenage sighing and rolling eyes thing.
I used to take my boys with me too, I find the act of voting (and remembering those who brought it about) quite emotional; I wouldn't want a postal vote. Now I get the eye rolling when I mention the suffragettes, especially as I recently did my history dissertation on whether ww1 delayed women getting the vote. I plan my essays by talking about the subject...
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
I take a slight detour on my way to vote, to go past the grave of our local suffragette. A wee acknowledgement of gratitude.
When the kids were at home, I always insisted on taking them with me (including the suffragette grave stop), and telling them that it was both a privilege and a duty to vote, whilst they did the teenage sighing and rolling eyes thing.
I used to take my boys with me too, I find the act of voting (and remembering those who brought it about) quite emotional; I wouldn't want a postal vote. Now I get the eye rolling when I mention the suffragettes, especially as I recently did my history dissertation on whether ww1 delayed women getting the vote. I plan my essays by talking about the subject...
I add something to that, as it was only in 1918 that the last property qualifications were abolished, so that all men over 21 could vote. Before then 40% of adult males had no vote, although some had more than one vote!
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I really can't remember the last time I voted at a polling place. I receive my ballot by mail (something which is being encouraged more and more), fill it in in the comfort of my own home, and either mail it back or drop it off at a designated place before or on Election Day.
I totally wouldn't trust that at all. I can just see it arriving late or not arriving at all. It may be old-fashioned to go and mark a cross with a pencil on a piece of paper in a polling booth, but it seems safer to me.
Election rituals? None really except that I plug in the earphones of my tiny pocket radio when I go to bed and get an idea periodically through the night of how things are going. Unless it looks like a clearcut result for a party I don't like, in which case I unplug and ignore it.
Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on
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I knew someone who thought it would be a good idea to drink a shot-glass of beer every time a constituency result was announced.
It turned out not to be ...
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on
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Enoch, shame on you. A leaflet????? A lamington is a piece of cake, but a bit more difficult to make. Lamington drives used be great fundraisers at schools, at Saturday street stalls for a charity,and featured prominently on afternoon tea tables.
Posted by Carex (# 9643) on
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We also vote around the dining table. I get to read through the minutia of the various ballot initiatives (citizen-proposed legislation that goes directly to the voters rather than through the legislature) and explain them to the Other Carex, then we mark our ballots, place them in envelopes, and drop them off the next day in the ballot box at the library. Typically this happens about 10 days before "Election Day".
If I have any concerns whether the ballot was received, I can check the county election website, and have time to receive a spare, or vote in person, if it gets lost.
I hate watching the results trickle in, where the TV stations have to fill too much time with too little news.
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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Enoch said: quote:
A lot of us make a point of refusing to tell tellers who we are or which way we intend to vote. The tellers aren't usually too bad here, but in another town where I lived once, I thought they were seriously intimidating, glaring at you with a sort of 'you vote for our man or else' expression. I didn't.
Are they really tellers? I thought they were representatives of political parties charged with the job of 'getting out the vote'. So if you've promised to vote for a specific party, you tell them who you are and they tick you off their list, and if it's getting towards 10pm (when the polls close) and you haven't voted yet they send someone round to ask if you want 'help' getting to the polling station.
They are not allowed inside the building and have to huddle outside on the doorstep in all weathers; I'd feel sorry for them if I didn't find them so annoying. As I never promise to vote for anyone (it only encourages them) I always refuse to tell them who I am.
The people actually inside the polling station handing out voting forms are officially neutral and are entitled to ask who you are. I've never been asked by one of them who I'm planning to vote for.
Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on
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I usually know the people huddled at our polling station door, it's the sort of area where everyone knows each other. I'm happy to provide my details to them, though I don't say who I am voting for as it would seem quite rude to the opposition (but I do when the lib dems come round). If I haven't voted by 10am the local lib dems call on me!
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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At the last European elections, there was someone hanging around just outside the polling station with a party rosette on who asked me for my name and address as I walked in.
I asked if it was necessary, they replied 'no' so I refused. Yet the electoral commission make it very difficult to complain. On their website they just direct you to the local council, but the local council don't have a complaints mechanism readily set up.
At the last general election, I voted after work, when I'd inadvertently put on a blue tie. Various folks in rosettes were stood by the door I saw the red rosette wearer nod to the blue rosette wearer and heard them say "one of yours". How wrong they were!
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Are they really tellers? I thought they were representatives of political parties charged with the job of 'getting out the vote'.
That's what a teller is. And you are right that they aren't allowed inside except for how long it takes them to cast their own vote if it's their polling station.
The ones inside the polling station are poll clerks. They are strictly and rigorously neutral. I've been a poll clerk and they take that very seriously. They are not allowed to ask you who you intend to vote for. It is none of their business. Nor are they allowed to try to influence you.
They are required to ask who you are, and you are required to answer. If you have your poll card with you, this is usually done by asking them in some way to confirm they are the person whose name is on the card
It is a criminal offence to impersonate someone.
Although you don't have to have your poll card with you to vote, it does make life an awful lot easier for you and the staff if you do. Since most people bring theirs with them, it does leave one wondering why some people don't.
Posted by Garasu (# 17152) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Although you don't have to have your poll card with you to vote, it does make life an awful lot easier for you and the staff if you do. Since most people bring theirs with them, it does leave one wondering why some people don't.
Because it arrives months before it's needed and by the time you're rushing out of the house on a Thursday morning you've lost it?
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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Ever since 1997, I've watched the tv coverage to see if there might be another "Portillo Moment". Till now there hasn't been, but this year I have big hopes for Mick Clegg's constituency.
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Ever since 1997, I've watched the tv coverage to see if there might be another "Portillo Moment". Till now there hasn't been, but this year I have big hopes for Mick Clegg's constituency.
And Danny "Beaker" Alexander.
*meep*
Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on
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I've never been asked by the people outside the polling station who I intend to vote for, but they do sometimes ask for my polling card - I always refuse to give it to them, it's none of their business and I don't see why they want it.
I usually go early, even though I am now retired - always used to go on the way to work. However this time round for the first time ever I have a postal vote as I will be away next week.
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Ever since 1997, I've watched the tv coverage to see if there might be another "Portillo Moment". Till now there hasn't been, but this year I have big hopes for Mick Clegg's constituency.
The most amusing potential one this time around, probably for all sides frankly, is Morley and Outwood. Keep half an eye on that result - if nothing else it could precipitate the fastest kicking upstairs to the Lords of a newly elected Labour MP in a long while in the scramble to get Ed Balls back into Parliament.
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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Incidentally Ed Balls really has been the invisible man in this campaign hasn't he?
Can't think why...
But the vanishing act is certainly impressive.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
I've never been asked by the people outside the polling station who I intend to vote for, but they do sometimes ask for my polling card - I always refuse to give it to them, it's none of their business and I don't see why they want it.
They want it so that they can tick you off their list so as not to ring your doorbell latwer on to persuade you to vote.
Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Ever since 1997, I've watched the tv coverage to see if there might be another "Portillo Moment". Till now there hasn't been, but this year I have big hopes for Mick Clegg's constituency.
A relative of my husband stood in Enfield for a minor party in 1997. My husband has a wonderful photo of Portillo's face when he heard the outcome.
I think you are right about Clegg being the likeliest to do a Portillo this year.
Posted by MrsBeaky (# 17663) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
I usually know the people huddled at our polling station door, it's the sort of area where everyone knows each other. I'm happy to provide my details to them, though I don't say who I am voting for as it would seem quite rude to the opposition (but I do when the lib dems come round). If I haven't voted by 10am the local lib dems call on me!
I stood in the local elections in the 90s (and got in!). Being involved in a campaign and election was a real eye opener. I was a Lib Dem and can confirm that in our patch asking for the voters' details was so that we could go and offer lifts to the polling station to other people who had said they would support us but had not yet voted.
Posted by Spike (# 36) on
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quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
I was a Lib Dem and can confirm that in our patch asking for the voters' details was so that we could go and offer lifts to the polling station to other people who had said they would support us but had not yet voted.
I knew an elderly lady who was a staunch Labour supporter. She would tell Tory and/or LibDem canvassers that she would be voting for them so that they would give her a lift to the polling station as she didn't want to waste the time of the Labour activists ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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The election ritual for me is fast becoming the "will the postal ballot arrive in time?" check the mail box when I get in from work. For the Scottish referendum it arrived at a point where it was theoretically possible for it to arrive in time (ie: I dropped it off at the post office when it opened the day after it arrived, with the usual negotiation with a clerk who doesn't speak English and my almost non-existant Japanese to ensure I've paid the right postage, and if it got to the main office by noon and on a train to Tokyo it could have made the next commercial flight out the next morning, which would get it into Heathrow, assuming that's where it went, about 2pm leaving 8h for it to get to Hamilton). I know it didn't make it, though I felt obliged to try. Still no ballot paper here, and as there's a three day holiday next week the last day I can post it is Saturday.
Does anyone know why the postal ballot papers aren't sent out a bit sooner? If you register for a postal vote months ahead of the election, surely someone can put them in the post early enough that getting them back late is the result of tardiness on the voter.
Posted by Spike (# 36) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
I've never been asked by the people outside the polling station who I intend to vote for, but they do sometimes ask for my polling card - I always refuse to give it to them, it's none of their business and I don't see why they want it
It's to see whether you've voted. If you don't hand your card over, you're more likely to get hassled by party activists urging you to go out and vote.
ETA: the tellers outside the polling station aren't allowed to ask you who you intend to vote for - they're not even allowed to speak to you apart from a "good morning/afternoon". Neither are they allowed to ask who you voted for as you leave.
Sometimes, there are independent pollsters conducting Exit polls outside polling stations, but they are completely independent from any of the parties.
[ 30. April 2015, 07:12: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
I've never been asked by the people outside the polling station who I intend to vote for, but they do sometimes ask for my polling card - I always refuse to give it to them, it's none of their business and I don't see why they want it
It's to see whether you've voted. If you don't hand your card over, you're more likely to get hassled by party activists urging you to go out and vote.
ETA: the tellers outside the polling station aren't allowed to ask you who you intend to vote for - they're not even allowed to speak to you apart from a "good morning/afternoon". Neither are they allowed to ask who you voted for as you leave.
Sometimes, there are independent pollsters conducting Exit polls outside polling stations, but they are completely independent from any of the parties.
Going back many years to my days as a teller, we weren't allowed to show party allegiance, let alone who one had voted for, so ties were popular although our red roses were a stylish giveaway that no one objected to, especially as we had almost no chance!
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Does anyone know why the postal ballot papers aren't sent out a bit sooner? If you register for a postal vote months ahead of the election, surely someone can put them in the post early enough that getting them back late is the result of tardiness on the voter.
I think "because nobody cares about people who live abroad getting to vote". I applied for a postal ballot for at least one election (it may have been two - can't remember), and the form didn't even get to me until the day after the election. I'm in the suburban US fairly close to a major hub airport - I have pretty good postal links.
Most people living in the UK don't care if you or I get to vote, and it's hard for us to kick up a stink remotely. (And if I'm honest, I don't care enough. I'd be voting in a safe seat anyway.)
Posted by Spike (# 36) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
I've never been asked by the people outside the polling station who I intend to vote for, but they do sometimes ask for my polling card - I always refuse to give it to them, it's none of their business and I don't see why they want it
It's to see whether you've voted. If you don't hand your card over, you're more likely to get hassled by party activists urging you to go out and vote.
ETA: the tellers outside the polling station aren't allowed to ask you who you intend to vote for - they're not even allowed to speak to you apart from a "good morning/afternoon". Neither are they allowed to ask who you voted for as you leave.
Sometimes, there are independent pollsters conducting Exit polls outside polling stations, but they are completely independent from any of the parties.
Going back many years to my days as a teller, we weren't allowed to show party allegiance, let alone who one had voted for, so ties were popular although our red roses were a stylish giveaway that no one objected to, especially as we had almost no chance!
In the past only a plain coloured rosette was allowed. Nowadays, the rosette can have a party logo, but you are still not allowed to wear anything bearing the name of a party or candidate.
Posted by Cathscats (# 17827) on
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When I lived overseas, I had a proxy vote, which meant that I nominated someone I could trust to vote for me in the way I instructed. Is this no longer available?
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Cathscats:
When I lived overseas, I had a proxy vote, which meant that I nominated someone I could trust to vote for me in the way I instructed. Is this no longer available?
That's still possible, but that someone either has to live wherever you used to live (as they have to show up at your polling place) or apply for a postal vote as your proxy.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
If I could have been organised enough to apply for a proxy 3 months ago before I left, it could be done. It would probably be someone at church - very few of the people I know at work are registered to vote in the same constituency. But, I wasn't that organised and I'd already registered for a postal vote. The thing is I know there's also a card sitting inside the door at home, part of the small mountain of mail I'll need to shift when I'm back in a months time.
Oh, and in case you're wondering, there wasn't a ballot paper when I got back from work last night. If there's one when I get home tonight I'll be counting on the post office being open Saturday afternoon. Otherwise I'll have to wait until after the holidays, which will mean posting it Thursday morning and I don't expect it to manage the trip in 18h.
Posted by Alyosha (# 18395) on
:
I'm new here so if there are any hidden initiation rituals at Ship of Fools please exclude me from them).
My election rituals are as follows:
1. I get interested in the whole process and attempt (and fail) to enjoy the whole thing (after all it should be fun shouldn't it?).
2. I decide on who I am going to vote for.
3. I watch and read a lot of the election stuff.
4. I start to hope. This is the interesting ritual - I begin to hope that there might be a change which could make things better for the people in this country. It is almost always a false hope and yet I always, always fall for it.
5. I delude myself into thinking that democracy is the expression of individuals.
6. I vote. This is always an anti-climax. If I am really disappointed I blog about it in an attempt to engage. This always fails.
7. The results come in. It is always either Labour or the Conservatives who win. I pretend that this is some kind of choice or freedom.
8. I feel guilty whoever I vote for.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Does anyone know why the postal ballot papers aren't sent out a bit sooner? If you register for a postal vote months ahead of the election, surely someone can put them in the post early enough that getting them back late is the result of tardiness on the voter.
Well, the ballot papers can't be printed until all the applications to be a candidate have been received and published. This time round that was on April 9th. Allowing for a bit of time to print and distribute the papers, that should mean that postal ballots could have been sent by, say, the 16th. Knowing that one could still register for a postal vote until, I think, the 21st, these last few stragglers could have been done on an ad hoc basis.
One lady in our church, going away today, still hadn't received her vote yesterday due to an administrative cock-up. They told her, "But you'll get it by polling day"! She replied that the whole point of a postal vote is that you won't be at home on polling day, nor possibly for some days beforehand if you're away on holiday or business.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Well, the ballot papers can't be printed until all the applications to be a candidate have been received and published. This time round that was on April 9th. Allowing for a bit of time to print and distribute the papers, that should mean that postal ballots could have been sent by, say, the 16th. Knowing that one could still register for a postal vote until, I think, the 21st, these last few stragglers could have been done on an ad hoc basis.
It shouldn't take more than a week for a letter to get to me, even in Japan. Therefore, I conclude that the actual posting of the ballots to people happens sometime later than that.
I'll be finishing off here at work shortly, a bit early tonight. I wonder if there'll be anything in my mail box?
Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on
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I'm not in Alan's constituency but am not all that far away.
I've had my postal ballot paper for, I would think, over a week....
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alyosha:
7. The results come in. It is always either Labour or the Conservatives who win. I pretend that this is some kind of choice or freedom.
It could be slightly different this time. The joker in the pack is Nationalism - both Scottish and English. It's not the driver for political engagement I would like to see, but there you go.
Welcome to The Ship btw. There are no hidden rituals that I know of (apart from that thing with the pangolin, the marmalade and the coat hanger).
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on
:
Think the only time I've managed to stay up any length of time was 2001 (when the result was pretty much a foregone conclusion) and I was at Uni and, having finished my finals, it didn't matter what state I was in the next morning.
I'd like to stay up this time, but I have a school governors' training session at 9:30 the next morning... unless I just sit at the back and drink copious amounts of the free coffee that will be there?
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
My wife is standing as a "paper" candidate for the local Council. This means that she is part of the party "apparatus", so we shall be down at the Town Hall from about 11pm watching the count.
As it happens, that will only be the count for our MP - the Council papers won't be counted till the next day. She might well be down for that, too. Although I've been down for Council elections before, this will be the first time at a General Election.
Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on
:
Two things that occur to me as I read this thread:
Some polling stations are open here for about a week before election day, so we wander up early and vote when it's convenient. We can only vote early in our own electorate, of course. Handy if we'll be somewhere else when the day comes.
Special votes come from voters who are currently overseas; they must vote by election day but results may not be finalised for 28 days after election day, and it has happened that this resulted in a National (Conservative) seat being lost to a Green candidate. Special voters tend to favour change.
GG
Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alyosha:
I'm new here so if there are any hidden initiation rituals at Ship of Fools please exclude me from them).
My election rituals are as follows:
1. I get interested in the whole process and attempt (and fail) to enjoy the whole thing (after all it should be fun shouldn't it?).
2. I decide on who I am going to vote for.
3. I watch and read a lot of the election stuff.
4. I start to hope. This is the interesting ritual - I begin to hope that there might be a change which could make things better for the people in this country. It is almost always a false hope and yet I always, always fall for it.
5. I delude myself into thinking that democracy is the expression of individuals.
6. I vote. This is always an anti-climax. If I am really disappointed I blog about it in an attempt to engage. This always fails.
7. The results come in. It is always either Labour or the Conservatives who win. I pretend that this is some kind of choice or freedom.
8. I feel guilty whoever I vote for.
Hello, welcome aboard, and how did you get inside my head? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posted by Abigail (# 1672) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
Think the only time I've managed to stay up any length of time was 2001 (when the result was pretty much a foregone conclusion) and I was at Uni and, having finished my finals, it didn't matter what state I was in the next morning.
The first General Election I took an interest in was that of June 1970 and although I was in the middle of my 'O' levels with an exam the next morning (chemistry if my memory serves me right) I insisted on staying up until the early hours despite all my mother's attempts to get me to go to bed. (And yes, I passed)
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on
:
1. Complaining at the polling station that the election is illegal. Why?
It's not a secret ballot - in contravention to the various acts.
It's not secret because they give you a numbered slip on which to cast your vote. The number of the slip is recorded next to your name. It's possible then to work out how everyone votes ..... hardly a secret and a heavy handed way to avoid electoral fraud (the reason given for the practice)
2. If I'm there as it opens at 7 am, complaining to the staff if they don't open exactly at 7. Yes, I know I have a problem with time
3. On occasion, reporting over zealous party activists to the Police as they demand my poll card (which is illegal) and don't like it when I refuse.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
As my ballot paper still hasn't arrived, I won't be voting this year.
But, I'm in the perfect place to watch the results come in. The polls close at 6am my time, so by the time I get into work there will be the first results announced. I'll keep a browser window open while I work, keeping an eye open for new results. Most constituencies will have probably announced by lunch time and the result will either be known or everyone will be watching the last counts like a hawk.
Posted by Spike (# 36) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
3. On occasion, reporting over zealous party activists to the Police as they demand my poll card (which is illegal) and don't like it when I refuse.
What's illegal about it?
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
All I've been able to find out is this from the Electoral Commission:
"Polling agents may wish to note on their own copy of the register of electors who has voted, but they cannot take this marked copy of the register out of the polling station until after the close of poll. They must not interfere with the voting process and must not campaign or canvass voters in the polling station. If they do wear a rosette or badge, it should be plain but may display the name of a candidate, party and/or emblem. They have the right to observe the preparation and opening of the polling station and its closure and may add their seal to the ballot box at the close of poll (though not at poll opening). During polling hours, polling agents in attendance should be placed at a separate table that is close enough to observe and hear the proceedings, but not in a position that would compromise the secrecy of the ballot."
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
3. On occasion, reporting over zealous party activists to the Police as they demand my poll card (which is illegal) and don't like it when I refuse.
What's illegal about it?
They can ask to see it but have to accept a refusal without demur. No everyone abides by this - they seem to want to want to see it.
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
All I've been able to find out is this from the Electoral Commission:
"Polling agents may wish to note on their own copy of the register of electors who has voted, but they cannot take this marked copy of the register out of the polling station until after the close of poll. They must not interfere with the voting process and must not campaign or canvass voters in the polling station. If they do wear a rosette or badge, it should be plain but may display the name of a candidate, party and/or emblem. They have the right to observe the preparation and opening of the polling station and its closure and may add their seal to the ballot box at the close of poll (though not at poll opening). During polling hours, polling agents in attendance should be placed at a separate table that is close enough to observe and hear the proceedings, but not in a position that would compromise the secrecy of the ballot."
It's my understanding that they cannot be in the building at all during polling hours unless they are voting themselves.
Even being in the porch is illegal - I proved this once as I had to ask the Police to stop the poll clerk calling out the names to the agents. He recognised the validity of my request and asked them to move outside and for the poll clerk to keep it quieter.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
I don't think that's right: the advice says:
"The law specifically provides for certain persons to be present in polling stations (in addition to polling station staff and voters). These are:
• the Returning Officer and their staff
• candidates, election agents and polling agents
• police officers on duty at the polling station
• representatives of the Electoral Commission
• accredited observers
• persons under the age of 18 who accompany voters
• companions of disabled voters".
Of course, the folk who sit outside the door and ask for your cards may not legally be "polling agents" and, I'm sure, must not harass or intimidate voters.
[ 04. May 2015, 17:30: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
1. Complaining at the polling station that the election is illegal. Why?
It's not a secret ballot - in contravention to the various acts.
It's not secret because they give you a numbered slip on which to cast your vote. The number of the slip is recorded next to your name. It's possible then to work out how everyone votes ..... hardly a secret and a heavy handed way to avoid electoral fraud (the reason given for the practice)
2. If I'm there as it opens at 7 am, complaining to the staff if they don't open exactly at 7. Yes, I know I have a problem with time
3. On occasion, reporting over zealous party activists to the Police as they demand my poll card (which is illegal) and don't like it when I refuse.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I have participated in five federal and provincial elections as a Deputy Returning Officer and Poll Clerk. Our ballots are numbered too, but their numbers are NEVER recorded. They are there as a security measure to make sure how many ballots are issued with and return as DRO.
Scrutineers, as we call them, are allowed in to the poll but must sit at a separate table. They may challenge the qualifications of an elector, in which I will reconsider my decision as DRO, but my considered opinion is final. They may insist that a voter take an Oath/Affirmation as to their identity, which will be duly recorded in the Poll Book.
You don't NEED a poll card in Canada to vote, just your ID. If your name is not on the Electoral Roll, you can be added on the spot.
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I don't think that's right: the advice says:
"The law specifically provides for certain persons to be present in polling stations (in addition to polling station staff and voters). These are:
• the Returning Officer and their staff
• candidates, election agents and polling agents
• police officers on duty at the polling station
• representatives of the Electoral Commission
• accredited observers
• persons under the age of 18 who accompany voters
• companions of disabled voters".
Of course, the folk who sit outside the door and ask for your cards may not legally be "polling agents" and, I'm sure, must not harass or intimidate voters.
In that case there has been a change to the law. It's daft allowing poll agents inside, they could wander all over the place and influence people on the point of voting.
No, I'll continue to complain if they are inside - what I do in there is between me and the poll.
Incidentally, not one has yet taken me up on the non secret ballot issue - what do you think BT?
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
It is something that has crossed my mind and is, theoretically, an issue.
Having seen the ballot boxes being emptied and the count being done allays any fears I think - there simply is no time to check numbers against registers. Theoretically it could happen afterwards as I have no idea what happens to the ballot papers - is there a place in the Town Hall where they are kept? I'm actually more concerned with mistakes in counting than anything else ... my wife was watching one teller the other year who made a whopping mistake by putting ballot slips in the wrong piles, and had to be corrected.
I think I might be more concerned at "traceability" if an electronic voting system came in, as each person logging in would need to be authenticated; one would need some sort of anonymising algorithm to prevent the process being followed in reverse.
I suppose it all comes down to how much we trust the people operating the system. You might be horrified by this suggestion, but if we had ID cards (as in most countries) then you could just show your ID to the folk at the desk and get crossed off. They could then punch a voting slip to show that it was genuine (every one punched in the same way) and then you'd vote. Hence there would be no way of finding out "who voted what". But even there you'd need to trust the staff up to a point.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
In that case there has been a change to the law. It's daft allowing poll agents inside, they could wander all over the place and influence people on the point of voting.
You may be right in one respect. The "Polling Stations (Regulation) Act 2007" states that "It shall be an offence to engage in campaigning activity within a prescribed area around a polling station on the day of a relevant election at any time during the period in which the polling station is open." It specifically prohibits "the promotion or distribution of any literature", "the use of audio equipment ... for the propagation of messages relating to an election", and "oral communication for the purpose of eliciting voting intentions or influencing the casting of a vote" within 250 metres of a polling station.
[ 05. May 2015, 06:45: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posted by Tulfes (# 18000) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
1. Complaining at the polling station that the election is illegal. Why?
It's not a secret ballot - in contravention to the various acts.
It's not secret because they give you a numbered slip on which to cast your vote. The number of the slip is recorded next to your name. It's possible then to work out how everyone votes ..... hardly a secret and a heavy handed way to avoid electoral fraud (the reason given for the practice)
2. If I'm there as it opens at 7 am, complaining to the staff if they don't open exactly at 7. Yes, I know I have a problem with time
3. On occasion, reporting over zealous party activists to the Police as they demand my poll card (which is illegal) and don't like it when I refuse.
Re the secret ballot point, see discussion
here
Posted by David (# 3) on
:
You foreigners have such strange election day practices. Candidates can have "polling agents" in the actual polling place? WTF? If they had them here they would be regularly decked.
I bet you don't even get to buy a sausage on a piece of bread. What sort of election is that?
ETA: we have scrutineers who are allowed in, but they can't talk to you; they can complain to the electoral officer about your eligibility, which is noted, but that's all. Never seen it happen personally, or even heard if it (ref. previously mentioned decking).
[ 07. May 2015, 06:33: Message edited by: David ]
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by David:
You foreigners have such strange election day practices. Candidates can have "polling agents" in the actual polling place? WTF?
They can be inside the polling station providing they don't speak to anyone, hand out leaflets, or otherwise attempt to influence voting (AIUI). They're allowed to stand outside the polling place and do that, but once you're through the doors you're free of political agents and can make your decision free of interference.
quote:
I bet you don't even get to buy a sausage on a piece of bread. What sort of election is that?
Voting is a serious matter. Not some sort of party where you can buy home baking and catch up on the gossip with your pals.
Besides, someone might mistake a sausage on bread as one of the candidates ...
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
Elections being what they are, there's probably a Sausage Party of Great Britain you can vote for, which would preclude having samples distributed outside polling stations.
Look, we like it as a grim, joyless affair marked by overtones of despair and apathy. Don't start trying to liven it up, we don't want levity, mirth and sausages infused into the mix.
(Tomorrow is another day. It'll be Drown Your Sorrows Day when pre-election posters will glumly come down, leaflets will be flung into the bin, and sausages will be welcome as a consolation but that isn't the keynote of today.)
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by David:
I bet you don't even get to buy a sausage on a piece of bread. What sort of election is that?
Touchy subject, since one of the party leaders was seen recently eating a hot dog with a knife and fork *cough*Cameron*cough*.
[I now have to recover from a fit of helpless giggles. I'm sending this from my phone, with auto-correct on, and the next word it offered me after I typed "eating a" was "puppy".]
Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on
:
I guess telling Ipsos MORI that we're in a hurry should count as a new ritual as well. For starters, psephology is the ultimate expression of drivel and bollocks masquerading as science, and with only 170-odd votes in it last time, it shouldn't take many refusals to make people look very silly.
Then we can get on with hating the new government for being a bunch of misspelt Danish kings of England. What fun!
AG
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by David:
I bet you don't even get to buy a sausage on a piece of bread. What sort of election is that?
Touchy subject, since one of the party leaders was seen recently eating a hot dog with a knife and fork *cough*Cameron*cough*.
[I now have to recover from a fit of helpless giggles. I'm sending this from my phone, with auto-correct on, and the next word it offered me after I typed "eating a" was "puppy".]
Your phone Knows Something.
Anyway, I've just got an email to say the T'ai Chi class is postponed on account of the election. You can take this democracy lark too far. I shall never get my Napping Sloth Returns to Sofa down pat now.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
Am I right in thinking that if a school is turned into a polling station, the children get the day off?
Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on
:
Happened about 8 years ago in a school I was working at. The entrance to the gym was blocked (and the voters entered a separate outside door to vote.
Listened all day to the kids moaning about no gym classes. They weren't in a mood to listen to the importance of the right to vote.
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Am I right in thinking that if a school is turned into a polling station, the children get the day off?
Yes; the local infant school (which our youngest attends) was closed as was the junior school which our oldest daughter attends (although it's a separate school, it shares the same site as the infant school).
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
I think for once I am not going to sit up late. I think I've heard/read as much political speculation as the human frame can bear. I may get up betimes though - I am usually awake between five and six in any case. I will be interested to see what happens in this constituency, which won't be called to the small hours. It's an extreme marginal and should in theory go to the SNP on a swing smaller than a mouse's whisker. But the sitting member has campaigned on his personal record as a constituency MP and, interestingly, the chap in the yellow rosette outside the polling station confessed to having voted for him (to my husband, who was the one in the red rosette).
Posted by David (# 3) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Voting is a serious matter. Not some sort of party where you can buy home baking and catch up on the gossip with your pals.
I think the two major differences are, apart from the fact that the UK still has a silly first past the post system that they refused to change against all advice, in Aus we have compulsory voting and all elections are held on a Saturday.
Read it again, it makes sense.
Also, apart from Queensland, no ID is required. Turn up, tell them your name and address, vote. Eat.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
Compulsory voting and some sensible system of counting votes, that makes perfect sense.
Turning the voting process into some form of social gathering at the polling station, not so much. It's bad enough that before getting to vote we need to endure a line of multi-coloured rosette wearing party representatives wanting us to take their leaflets (as though the pile that came through the door wasn't enough) as we enter, and then again asking us how we voted as we leave. But, to add a cake stall and a whole load of additional people for whom "how did you vote?" is an obvious subject for discussion ...
Posted by David (# 3) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Compulsory voting and some sensible system of counting votes, that makes perfect sense.
Turning the voting process into some form of social gathering at the polling station, not so much. It's bad enough that before getting to vote we need to endure a line of multi-coloured rosette wearing party representatives wanting us to take their leaflets (as though the pile that came through the door wasn't enough) as we enter, and then again asking us how we voted as we leave. But, to add a cake stall and a whole load of additional people for whom "how did you vote?" is an obvious subject for discussion ...
Maybe I've overstated the sausage thing, it's not a social gathering, it's usually a fundraising thing for the school you voted in. And the last two elections they'd run out by the time we voted.
Nobody talks about how they've voted. Nobody wears rosettes either (it's t-shirts). We also don't bother with exit polls too much (never been polled), because the polls close at 6PM and the counting takes place at each polling booth. This means that booth results start being reported at around 7PM and the clever software and Antony Greens start making projections based on individual booth swings.
And WTF Scotland?
Posted by Mili (# 3254) on
:
The voting is compulsory, but the sausages and cakes are optional And the people selling the sausages just ask if you want sauce and onions with that.
I only remember one political conversation after voting when I still lived at home. I went with my parents to my old primary school and they knew the school father running the sausage sizzle. He told us he hadn't bothered voting as he was Scottish and not an Australian citizen so as a permanent resident he could vote, but didn't have to. So more time for him to sell sausages, I guess. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I did find myself in heated discussion with the local candidate for the Australian Christian Party at the last State election(or whatever they call themselves). She offered to tell people about her party's policies and the elderly man ahead of me politely/foolishly agreed to hear them. I couldn't keep quiet when she started saying how bad welfare was and complaining that she shouldn't have to pay to support the children of drug addicts etc. As a Christian I hate that the so called Christian party has such unempathetic views. She even said they don't want Australians to all be Christians, just live by 'Christian values' and then spouted bile about people on welfare. So I pointed out her idea of Christian values are not shared by many Christians. Must avoid talking to any politicians in future elections.
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
Re the secret ballot point, see discussion
here
Thanks - just as I thought. The amazing thing is that we trust Parliament and Judges (of all people) to decide what to do with them! Conflict of interest here.
Interestingly enough, asking the same question as usual yesterday produced bewilderment in the clerk.
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
But even there you'd need to trust the staff up to a point.
I'd sooner trust someone I can see than I would the Politicians and Judiciary who currently have oversight. I wouldn't trust most of them with anything - as they've comprehensively proved over the last few years that they'll lie to protect and to further number 1.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
Well, obviously not trusting a politician (which is, after all just a pseudonym for 'professional liar') is a given. But, not trusting the judiciary?
Posted by Spike (# 36) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
It's bad enough that before getting to vote we need to endure a line of multi-coloured rosette wearing party representatives wanting us to take their leaflets (as though the pile that came through the door wasn't enough) as we enter, and then again asking us how we voted as we leave.
They shouldn't be handing out leaflets, neither should they be asking how you voted. If this happens, they should be reported to,the Presiding Officer at the polling station.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
There were none at my polling station.
My polling station has been renamed "Mobile Polling Station". It used to be "Hut, Supermarket Car Park."
Thinking of odd locations, this year's more eccentric polling stations have included a pub, a launderette, a beauty salon, and a public toilet.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Thinking of odd locations, this year's more eccentric polling stations have included a pub, a launderette, a beauty salon, and a public toilet.
As husband spent several hours hanging about outside ours, just as well it wasn't the last. (Being well found for kirks, it was mainly church halls - including a rather handsome one by Robert Lorimer
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
:
When I went to vote this time, one of the clerks commented on how nice my green outfit was, so I grinned and said I might, possibly, be making a political statement. Then I looked at her purple top and added: "I hope you're not!"
She looked completely bewildered.
"UKIP?" I said.
She had no idea! How can someone be involved in the process and still have no idea which colour is used by which party?
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
When I went to vote this time, one of the clerks commented on how nice my green outfit was, so I grinned and said I might, possibly, be making a political statement. Then I looked at her purple top and added: "I hope you're not!"
She looked completely bewildered.
"UKIP?" I said.
She had no idea! How can someone be involved in the process and still have no idea which colour is used by which party?
Nowadays it's difficult not to. I ensure I am wearing red and blue on election day, though I know they clash. I used to wear purple or mauve as a compromise but it'll be a few years before I will be able to do that again.
Posted by Spike (# 36) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
She had no idea! How can someone be involved in the process and still have no idea which colour is used by which party?
Why should they? They're only there to tick your name off the list. It's not a requirement to have any political understanding
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Well, obviously not trusting a politician (which is, after all just a pseudonym for 'professional liar') is a given. But, not trusting the judiciary?
Er - have you forgotten Hillsborough? Most reports have found the Police to be institionally corrupt and since the Judiciary accept the word of the Police without question, they are equally culpable.
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Well, obviously not trusting a politician (which is, after all just a pseudonym for 'professional liar') is a given. But, not trusting the judiciary?
Er - have you forgotten Hillsborough? Most reports have found the Police to be institutionally corrupt, and since the Judiciary accept the word of the Police without question, they are equally culpable.
Most reports have found that the South Yorkshire Police Force was institutionally corrupt. That is one out of over thirty forces and yes one that is known to have had problems. There is still quite a lot of distrust of the police around here from these events. However, I am not going to judge all police by the track record of just one force bad though it is (Orgreave, Hillsborough and the latest around children in care in Rotherham).
Jengie
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
The discussion of systemic corruption in law enforcement and the judiciary probably belongs somewhere other than a thread on whether you always wear your lucky pink cardigan on polling days.
Purgatory is thataway >
Firenze
Heaven Host
Posted by Garasu (# 17152) on
:
Bloody Tablet doesn't allow me to quote:
@JengieJon
The Met hasn't exactly inspired confidence either...
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
But I trust your Bloody Tablet (good title for a crime story btw) has allowed you to see my previous Hostly remarks about taking a discussion of police corruptibity to another thread?
Firenze
Slightly Foot-tapping Heaven Host
Posted by Garasu (# 17152) on
:
At the point that I posted, it hadn't.
But my apologies in any case.
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