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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Psalms
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
The Psalms are a very important part of my devotional life. However, on reflection, they are a bit odd. I'd like to list a few of the questions I have about them, in the hope that wiser Shipmates can enlighten me, or point me in the direction of a good book on the subject.
1) I've often heard it said that the Psalms were used as part of worship at the Temple; the fact they were collected together certainly suggests they were used corporately. However many of them are intensely, painfully, personal; I can't think of any other public devotional material like them.
2) A lot of the Psalms are complaints that God hasn't answered prayer. Again, odd for devotional material, especially in public.
3) Many Psalms complain that the speaker has been betrayed by trusted friends. Was ancient Israelite society really full of backstabbing bastards?
4) Many Psalms seem to come from the point of view of the poor and powerless. Why would they have been used in public worship by the rich and powerful - especially in the Temple, which must have been the most important place in the country?
All the things I've mentioned are things that I find very helpful about the Psalms when it comes to my own meditations. But why were they collected together in the first place?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Backstabbing bastards--well, I have to admit there's a lot more of them out there today than I ever knew. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
But with King David as author for so many of them, it's probably no surprise. I mean, being surrounded by backstabbing bastards is part of a king's job description.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
It's funny, but the only time in my life when I related to a lot of those "backstabbing bastards" Psalms was as a teenager, when I was convinced that everyone was out to get me, my best friends were betraying me, and generally drama-drama-drama. As an adult I'm more likely to look at situations and say, "Oh, well, we both kind of screwed up there, lessons learned for next time" so the "Oh Lord preserve me from mine enemies!" rhetoric leaves me picturing some of the psalmists as emo teenagers in skinny jeans with heavy black eyeliner.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Jammy Dodger
Half jam, half biscuit
# 17872
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Posted
I'm no expert but IIRC different Psalms were used for different occasions. For example the Songs of Ascents (120-134) were sung as part of the pilgrimage to Jerusalem for the festivals.
Maybe this means some were intended more for private use than public?
Many of David's psalms make more sense if you try to relate them to periods in his life (like when he is repeatedly on the fun from Saul).
Finally in terms of your 4th question Israel and then Judah always saw themselves as "poor and powerless" in the face of far more powerful empires around about. They spent most of their history under threat of one or more dominant empires - so even those "rich" in Jewish society would have seen themselves as powerless in this context and in need of God's protection/aid/salvation.
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Look at my eye twitching - Donkey from Shrek
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jammy Dodger:
Maybe this means some were intended more for private use than public?
I think it was John Eaton who reckoned that the 'personal' psalms were a lament by the king on behalf of the whole people of Israel.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Jammy Dodger
Half jam, half biscuit
# 17872
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Jammy Dodger:
Maybe this means some were intended more for private use than public?
I think it was John Eaton who reckoned that the 'personal' psalms were a lament by the king on behalf of the whole people of Israel.
Yep that makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
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Look at my eye twitching - Donkey from Shrek
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I'd have thought that the corporate experience of the Exile would have been a major factor.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
RE: private devotional use - how many families would've had a copy of the Psalms? ISTM that public, corporate use in worship would have made them accessible for private devotional use, because repetition in liturgy would allow people to learn the Psalms.
In many churches, the Psalms are prayed as part of the liturgy, and while it might feel odd sometimes to pray a psalm that's completely opposite of how you feel at that moment, often the phrases come to mind when I need them because they've become so familiar through use. Ancient Israelite culture was, of course, very different from ours, but perhaps that's a commonality?
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Families having a copy of the psalms for private devotions at least dates back to Calvin's Geneva.
The private devotional use of the Bible was one of the main reasons Reformers were keen on getting people to read. Therefore, the psalms (rather than the gospel) was often the first text in people's homes.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
And we always had the Psalms and their music in Kirk so we sang always at least once every Sunday. It was great to sing them!
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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IconiumBound
Shipmate
# 754
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Posted
Most of the Scriptures are God "talking" to humans. The Psalms are examples of humans talking (and complaining) to God.
Posts: 1318 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
What I particularly like about the Psalms where the psalmist is angry at God is that the psalmist had such a personal relationship with God, s/he is not afraid to "let it all hang out," to really let God know what s/he is feeling.
And God takes it. God also takes it in Job.
Once the anger has been expressed, though, the psalm will turn to a song of praise or thanksgiving.
I think we can learn a couple of things from these psalms. One is our God is big enough to hear us out. God actually wants to hear this anger because it is when we express this anger we begin to find the answers. We release what has us bottled up to begin to see God answering our questions.
We can have the same personal relationship with God as the psalmist. God will continue to be with us in spite of all the anger we can through at God.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Lori
Shipmate
# 9456
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
in the hope that ... Shipmates can .... point me in the direction of a good book on the subject.
These are a bit pricey but, in my opinion, these are brilliant books on the Psalms:
Tehillim / Psalms by Rabbi Avrohom Chaim Feuer
Available from Amazon.com, or (UK/Europe) from Lehmanns.
They are Jewish, so (of course) don't view the 'Messianic' psalms in the same way as Christianity does, but they are a wonderful and inspiring look at how they have been traditionally understood.
Posts: 137 | From: Netherlands | Registered: May 2005
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Jammy Dodger
Half jam, half biscuit
# 17872
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
All the things I've mentioned are things that I find very helpful about the Psalms when it comes to my own meditations. But why were they collected together in the first place?
It seems that in true QI fashion, "nobody knows". I had a look at the introduction to the Psalms in the Jewish Study Bible and that seems to indicate that no-one really knows who wrote which psalms when and who then compiled and edited them. Some psalms may appear older due to later writers deliberately using older forms of Hebrew or there may be very ancient Psalms that have been reworked and updated making them appear more recent.
The Qumran community credited David with writing 3600 psalms! This is about the only thing that people do seem to agree on that the psalms were songs (i.e. set to music which has long since been lost) and that it was David that introduced singing into the worship of YHWH in Israel.
The assumption seems to be that the psalms did form part of liturgy/corporate worship in Ancient Israel (but nobody knows for sure) - so presumably were collected together for this purpose.
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Look at my eye twitching - Donkey from Shrek
Posts: 438 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2013
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lori:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
in the hope that ... Shipmates can .... point me in the direction of a good book on the subject.
These are a bit pricey but, in my opinion, these are brilliant books on the Psalms:
Tehillim / Psalms by Rabbi Avrohom Chaim Feuer
Available from Amazon.com, or (UK/Europe) from Lehmanns.
They are Jewish, so (of course) don't view the 'Messianic' psalms in the same way as Christianity does, but they are a wonderful and inspiring look at how they have been traditionally understood.
Thanks for this idea Lori. I've been looking at Amazon, and this is a series of books on the Psalms, which means I'd probably not get round to reading the whole thing even if I could afford it. But they do look a wonderful series.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
I see the book of Psalms as an anthology of Jewish religious poetry. Various types of poems are represented.
Psalm 126 is a corporate psalm. Psalm 51 is a personal psalm, as is Psalm 139.
Moo
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See you later, alligator.
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