Ship of Fools: Walking on sea or water?

Thread: Walking on sea or water? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

I heard someone remark that while Jesus walked on the sea (Matthew 14:25-9), Peter walked on water.

I can't see what significance this has and no commentary that I can find mentions it.

Any ideas?

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

Seems nonsensical to me.

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Seems nonsensical to me.

Yup!

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

Was it an attempt at humor? Perhaps a jab at the RCs and their claiming of Peter as first pope?

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

In Matthew 14:25-31 which tells of Jesus walking on the water and Peter attempting it, Jesus was close enough to Peter to reach out and take his hand. They were on the same body of water.

The text uses the word 'lake' or 'sea' for what Jesus was walking on, but uses 'water' for what Peter walked on. This appears to be a variation in vocabulary which has no particular significance.

Moo

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Well, I suppose if you follow the interpretation that says Jesus was actually walking on a hidden sandbar (or similar) then it could be that Peter, not seeing the sandbar did step onto water and hence started to sink. Of course this approach does require there to be a sandbar conveniently located for Jesus to walk out to the boat, and for that sandbar to be unknown to the disciples (several of who had spent their lives fishing those waters and therefore would have known, and avoided, every potential hazard).

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

If Jesus were standing on a sandbar when Peter asks to be summoned, wouldn't that be a pretty nasty trick? Peter might miss Jesus's alleged sandbar and risk a soaking (if he could swim) or possible drowning (if he couldn't).

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
...Jesus was actually walking on a hidden sandbar (or similar) ...

I'd never heard this. My first thought is not to like it at all. If you want to deny plain-sense historicity for the account, I'd far rather have someone argue that there isn't a direct historical seed for this at all, and it's a literary construction to convey the totality of the disciples' experience of Jesus as God-with-us in the midst of chaos, than to conclude it was a trick with a sandbank.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I think it's a reference to a joke--the one where the punchline goes, "Do you think we should have told him where the stepping stones were?"

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
...Jesus was actually walking on a hidden sandbar (or similar) ...
I'd never heard this. My first thought is not to like it at all. If you want to deny plain-sense historicity for the account, ...

Every miracle has been given a "natural" non-miraculous explanation, some of which seem to me more miraculous than the Biblical miracle being denied.

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

Viz the story of the preacher who 'explained away' the crossing of the Red Sea, and was confronted by a hearer who marvelled at what must then have been the miraculous drowning of the Egyptian pursuers.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

You should read "A Year at St. Yorick's" by Adrian Plass. It's a collection of "spoof" church magazines, each one includes such an "explanation" of one of Jesus' miracles.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

It isn't a joke. It was with reference to a book called Playing with Dragons: Living with Suffering and God by Andy Angel. Tom Wright wrote the forward.

From the few pages available online it seems that the 'sea' Jesus walked on is a reference to his triumphing over Leviathan and Behemoth.

(The author's father lives near me.)

Posted by pimple (# 10635) on :

Maybe Jesus was just treading water?

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It isn't a joke. It was with reference to a book called Playing with Dragons: Living with Suffering and God by Andy Angel. Tom Wright wrote the forward.

From the few pages available online it seems that the 'sea' Jesus walked on is a reference to his triumphing over Leviathan and Behemoth.

(The author's father lives near me.)

Maybe they should have changed the phrase 'walked on' as well then
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

Trying using the lenses of Gen. 1:26 (image and likeness) and and 2 Pet. 1:3,4 (participation in the divine nature).

Jesus, the God-man, is fully human and fully God. He is God by nature; we are called to be gods by participation in the divine nature.

Does Jesus walk on the water as God? Or, does he walk on the water, as a human, through perfect participation in divine nature.

Peter walks on the water. And, so could we. The text says that he walks on the water and we have to account for it. He doesn't walk very far—his participation in the divine nature is greatly lacking—but he does participate in it, if only very little.

This interpretation helps us make sense of much of the story of St. Mary of Egypt and the other wonderworkers.

Forget the risible retreat to sandbars.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Hooray. At last a comment that engages with the text.

While a sense of humour is a good think, I am surprised that everyone else has treated this topic as a joke.

Posted by Garasu (# 17152) on :

Still don't see why the sea/water distinction should matter?

The Mesopotamian interpretation could sort of do it, but seems to stretch things to holy mushroom proportions....

Posted by pimple (# 10635) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Hooray. At last a comment that engages with the text.

While a sense of humour is a good think, I am surprised that everyone else has treated this topic as a joke.

[Irreverent tangent alert.] Your standard Christian's idea of a joke can be very puzzling. Jewish humour is much more engaging. Sometimes I wonder if Jesus' remark that one of Lazarus's sisters was preparing him [Jesus] for his funeral with all that costly oil might not have been just that - a humorous crack to spare everybody's blushes. After all, that's presumably what she'd done to Lazarus not long before - with cheaper oil but a similarly precocious haste.

[ 22. March 2015, 14:52: Message edited by: pimple ]

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
If Jesus were standing on a sandbar when Peter asks to be summoned, wouldn't that be a pretty nasty trick? Peter might miss Jesus's alleged sandbar and risk a soaking (if he could swim) or possible drowning (if he couldn't).

"Hey Peter, look what I'm doing! Come out and try it!"

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