Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Huia:
Wow!

The report I saw said there is no residentary clause, so does this mean same sex couples can come from another state and still have their marriage recognised in their home state?

Huia

---

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
The Empire State Building has been lit in rainbow colors to celebrate!

---

--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Yes, I think recognition is always up to the other jurisdiction. My understanding was that before now, New York was one of a couple of states that already did recognise same-sex marriages performed elsewhere, even though NY didn't perform them itself.

---

quote:

---

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwesi:
Isn't it time for Polygamists, Polyandrists, and other Combinationists to have their right recognised?

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
The Oh-So-Holy-Orthodox™ on Facebook are in apoplexy. My other "liberal" Orthodox friends seem to think I'm the only one who can hold the barricades. Guys, just clicking "like" on my posts isn't enough! I need some support!

---

Posted                          

quote:

---

"Many clerics declared their opposition, but the spokesman of the Primate of the Church of Greece said that people who marry "outside the church ... can do what they want".

---

Posted                          

quote:

---

Originally posted by Net Spinster:

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Yes, I think recognition is always up to the other jurisdiction. My understanding was that before now, New York was one of a couple of states that already did recognise same-sex marriages performed elsewhere, even though NY didn't perform them itself.

---

Actually not quite. The general rule based on the Constitution was that states had to recognize each other's actions (full faith and credit, Article IV section 1

quote:

---

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

---

However the "Defense of Marriage Act" passed by Congress allows states not to recognize same sex marriages and required the Federal government not to recognize them. These are being challenged in the courts.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Smart man there. A pity so few prominent clergy understand the difference between religious and civil marriage. And I understand the New York law makes it crystal clear that no church is going to be forced against its will to provide marriage to those nasty infectious homosexuals.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
Yeah it's mostly posts on this one Greek bishop's wall. He's a good egg. Geeze Louise, the blistering spite is just incredible. The delicious (if it weren't so horrid) irony of one of the arch homophobes talking about gay "hatemongers." Puh-leeze.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
I hadn't realised that DOMA was part of the reason that States had the option whether to recognise each other's marriages or not.

It makes for very pretty maps on Wikipedia, doesn't it?

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by TubaMirum:

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Smart man there. A pity so few prominent clergy understand the difference between religious and civil marriage. And I understand the New York law makes it crystal clear that no church is going to be forced against its will to provide marriage to those nasty infectious homosexuals.

---

This whole thing is really ridiculous. Does the state force the Catholic Church to marry divorced people?

Yeah, I didn't think so. Good grief; will people ever grow up about this, I wonder....?

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
The Oh-So-Holy-Orthodox™ on Facebook are in apoplexy. My other "liberal" Orthodox friends seem to think I'm the only one who can hold the barricades. Guys, just clicking "like" on my posts isn't enough! I need some support!

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

This seems to be where the conservatives are trying to shift the argument. In Canada, the Conservative government has basically accepted gay marriage as a done deal, but there was some talk for a while of the government introducing legislation specifically protecting the rights of churches not to perform same-sex marriages if they don't want to. I don't think that bill was ever introduced, since churches already had the right to marry or not marry as they saw fit, but it was something being pushed by the right wing.

link

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

The amendment that was passed stated that barring access to same-sex ceremonies, or failing to provide services for them, would not “result in any state or local government action to penalize, withhold benefits, or discriminate against such religious corporation, benevolent order, a not-for-profit corporation operated, supervised or controlled by a religious corporation.”

The amendment also included protections for “any employee thereof being managed, directed or supervised by or in conjunction with a religious corporation, benevolent order or a not-for-profit corporation.” And it included similar protections for clergy who declined to perform same-sex ceremonies.

Finally, the legislation contained what is known as an inseverability clause. If a court found any part of the act to be invalid, the entire legislation would also be invalid. The clause is an important provision to Republicans because it means that the marriage legislation would be at risk if the religious exemptions were successfully challenged in court.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Wow. An INseverability clause.

That is... I'm sorry, but coming from a system where severability clauses are quite commonly used as a constitutional safeguard, the idea of an inseverability clause just seems like the most perverse form of childish law-making imaginable.

---

quote:

---

The state Division on Civil Rights ruled Sunday a lesbian couple can move forward with a discrimination complaint against Ocean Grove for refusing to let them use an oceanfront pavilion for a civil union.

Since the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association regularly offered the pavilion to the broader public, it was bound by the state Law Against Discrimination from barring civil unions, division director J. Frank Vespa-Papaleo ruled. Because its action was voluntary, he added, use of the discrimination statute does not impair the association's "free exercise of religion."

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by TubaMirum:
The language about discrimination "against such religious corporation, benevolent order, a not-for-profit corporation operated, supervised or controlled by a religious corporation" makes me think they are looking at cases like the Ocean Grove (NJ) Camp Meeting Association lawsuit:

quote:

---

The state Division on Civil Rights ruled Sunday a lesbian couple can move forward with a discrimination complaint against Ocean Grove for refusing to let them use an oceanfront pavilion for a civil union.

Since the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association regularly offered the pavilion to the broader public, it was bound by the state Law Against Discrimination from barring civil unions, division director J. Frank Vespa-Papaleo ruled. Because its action was voluntary, he added, use of the discrimination statute does not impair the association's "free exercise of religion."

---

So this is a direct challenge to any such future action. IOW, they're saying, "don't try this again - or we'll torpedo same-sex marriage."

I wonder if this is unconstitutional! Would be interesting to see....

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by TubaMirum:
The language about discrimination "against such religious corporation, benevolent order, a not-for-profit corporation operated, supervised or controlled by a religious corporation" makes me think they are looking at cases like the Ocean Grove (NJ) Camp Meeting Association lawsuit:

---

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gee D:

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
The Oh-So-Holy-Orthodox™ on Facebook are in apoplexy. My other "liberal" Orthodox friends seem to think I'm the only one who can hold the barricades. Guys, just clicking "like" on my posts isn't enough! I need some support!

---

IIRC, when Queen Frederika was told that a new bishop was a pederast, she replied "I thought they all were". Perhaps not all, but theenqiries which led to the reforms at Mt Athos in the eighties showed that many monks were gay.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gee D:
The OED definitions show the very clear difference between pederasty and paedophilia. Pederasty is buggery; paedophilia is sexual attraction to children of either sex.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gee D:
The OED definitions show the very clear difference between pederasty and paedophilia. Pederasty is buggery; paedophilia is sexual attraction to children of either sex.

---

I would think that, given the similarity of the words and the high possibility/probability of their being confused, it would be wise to avoid the word "pederasty" altogether.

---

Posted                         

quote:

---

Homosexual relations between men and boys

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Think²:
Frankly, I don't care about the technical detail of the act - I care that the lie of a link between homosexuality and child abuse is not perpetuated deliberately or by poor word choice.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Religious leaders slammed the state's new gay marriage law on Saturday, vowing to ban politicians who supported the measure from any Catholic church and parochial school events.

The city's top Catholic clergy released strongly worded statements in the hours after the state Senate voted 33-29 to legalize gay unions.

Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio, of the diocese of Brooklyn, called on all Catholic schools to reject any honor bestowed upon them by Gov. Cuomo, who played a pivotal role in getting the bill passed.

He further asked all pastors and principals to "not invite any state legislator to speak or be present at any parish or school celebration."

"This is a further erosion of the real understanding of marriage," DiMarzio told the Daily News. "The state should not be concerned about regulating affection."

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
The Oh-So-Holy-Orthodox™ on Facebook are in apoplexy. My other "liberal" Orthodox friends seem to think I'm the only one who can hold the barricades. Guys, just clicking "like" on my posts isn't enough! I need some support!

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gee D:
What's the good Bishop's problem?

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt Black:

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
The Oh-So-Holy-Orthodox™ on Facebook are in apoplexy. My other "liberal" Orthodox friends seem to think I'm the only one who can hold the barricades. Guys, just clicking "like" on my posts isn't enough! I need some support!

---

As I'm not friends with the Bishop (and not sure I wish to be!), it's a bit difficult to post a comment.

---

hosting

Can I remind people not to import matters from other boards/websites onto these boards? I didn't post previously because Mousethief remembered and corrected himself. But just in case anyone is in doubt about official policy, please don't import arguments from your facebooktwitblogwhatever here!

cheers,
Louise
Dead Horses Host
hosting off

--------------------
Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.