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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Episcopal Churches in Baltimore?
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Hi! I may or may not be moving to Baltimore (I'll at least be visiting) and I was wondering if people here knew about the liturgical habits of some of the Episcopal churches there and could recommend any that we should visit. Anything from very very very Anglo-Catholic to a reverent middle-of-the-road style of liturgy is ok.
Although I would live to visit churches with a fully-professional choir if they are quite good (and please recommend them), my husband and I would like to sing in a choir if possible, so if you could mention churches that have good choirs that allow non-professional members who are pretty good at singing and learning music, even if we aren't professional-quality, that would be helpful.
(We are a gay married couple and intend to adopt children one day. I think in most Episcopal parishes in the country we would be very welcome, even if the parish doesn't go out of its way to talk all the time about how very very very welcome gay people are. But feel free to comment if there is any parish where you think this would not be the case.)
I know this is the liturgy board (and believe me, what I mainly want to talk about is the Liturgy at these parishes), but any other info about whether or not I could expect to see a large or small congregation, and any number of families with children, or any number of people under 40 if I attended services at these parishes might be helpful. (I am not expecting tons of kids and young adults since these are urban parishes, but it's nice to have some number of similar people rather than my being one of a very choice few in each group.)
I know Baltimore is a big place, so I've suggested some parishes that I saw on a quick online search. Feel free to suggest more:
-Old St. Paul's, Downtown (not sure about their worship style but they say that they have both professional and amateur members of their choir)
-Church of the Advent, Camden Yards Area (they seem to be very traditional Anglo-Catholic, but ok with using 1979 BCP Rite II and with having one of their priests be a woman (no problems with any of that here ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )). I am not sure if their choir is professional, amateur, or mixed, or how good they are. I am also not sure about how welcome a same-sex married couple with children would be (especially if the kids were baptized and going to Sunday School here), or whether the congregation is a healthy size/has families with children/has any young adults)
-Grace and St. Peter's Church, Downtown (this seems to be the most traditional Anglo-Catholic parish I saw, and possibly the most conservative) I get that the choir sings just about everything here with the laypeople being encouraged to pray contemplatively like good-old catholics (I'm not used to that, but I love old-fashioned liturgy). Is they choir all professional? Would a same sex married couple with kids be comfortable in this parish? Does this parish have an issue with female priests, even if they aren't explicit about it?
-St. John's in the Village, Waverly/Charles Village (Sarum Rite/English Use, but otherwise progressive). All-professional choir (I think).
-Emmanuel (Downtown) All-professional choir (I think) and progressive/gay-friendly, but I am not sure what their liturgies are like.
-Cathedral of the Incarnation (next to Johns Hopkins U.'s main campus)
-St. David's, Roland Park (I can't tell what kind of choir that they have other than that they are active)
-Memorial Church, Downtown (all I can tell from their website is that they are progressive)
-Church of the Redemption (South Baltimore - I really don't know much about this parish)
-others?
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Salicional
Shipmate
# 16461
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Posted
We attended St John's in the Village when we were visiting Baltimore about five years ago. Not a huge congregation, or building for that matter, but very friendly. The preaching was excellent, and the liturgy was reverent without being somber. The choir was excellent, but I'm not sure if they were all professional or not. I remember thinking that if I lived in Baltimore, I could feel right at home there.
Posts: 68 | From: near Lake Erie | Registered: Jun 2011
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
I'm not Episcopalian, but I have friends who are so I've got a sense of a few of the churches in the city.
Memorial Episcopal is down the street from my parish and we do a number of things with them (including a joint Ash Wednesday service along with the Presbyterians this evening). I think the parish is traditionally low church, but seems to be pretty middle of the road these days. They currently have an interim rector that everyone seems to like. They are very gay-friendly and the congregation doesn't seem too geriatric I believe their choir is all-volunteer.
I know a number of people who go to the Cathedral and like it very much. I hear they have good youth programs, so it wouldn't be a bad place for a family. Not particularly Anglo Catholic, but my sense is that things are done decently and in order. They too are in an interim Dean situation (I think there was some controversy over the previous Dean's departure, but I don't know any details). They have a good choir that welcomes non-professionals.
If you want something edgier, you might consider St. Luke's They are a small congregation is a big old building in an economically challenged area of Baltimore. The mission priest who serves their congregation is reputed to be an excellent preacher and they are beginning to draw more parishioners. I have a colleague who goes there and likes it very much. I don't know if there is any sort of choir, but I suspect they would be thrilled to have volunteers who wanted to help out with music.
[ 18. February 2015, 13:12: Message edited by: FCB ]
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Thank you for your advice so far. From what you have said, it seems that the information I gleaned from some of the websites I looked at is accurate.
I saw the website for St. Luke's and it said it was dedicated to the "youth" of Baltimore. Thanks for mentioning it as well.
FCB - I suspect I will be peeking into at least a few RC churches while in Baltimore. Do you know which ones have good choirs?
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Knopwood
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# 11596
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Posted
My understanding would be that a married same-sex couple would be welcome at GASP, but they could expect to be ministered to by only male priests. Ditto St John's in the Village. I'm gleaning this largely from Derek Olsen, who is himself a son of the Church of the Advent.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
FCB - I suspect I will be peeking into at least a few RC churches while in Baltimore. Do you know which ones have good choirs?
I suppose a lot depends on what one means by "good choirs." St. Bernadine's has a rocking gospel choir, but that might not be your thing. Though it's been years since I've been at a Mass with their choir, I know St. Ignatius in Mt. Vernon uses students from Peabody Conservatory in their choir. Mt. Calvary, an Anglican Ordinariate church, has a newly restored organ and is reputed to have good music. It would probably be easier to give you a list of places to avoid.
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Knopwood:
My understanding would be that a married same-sex couple would be welcome at GASP, but they could expect to be ministered to by only male priests. Ditto St John's in the Village. I'm gleaning this largely from Derek Olsen, who is himself a son of the Church of the Advent.
Does this mean that they do not allow female priests to celebrate there even as a visitor? Or that it is highly unlikely that they would ever hire a female priest? Or merely that they have never had a female priest on staff yet?
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maleveque
Shipmate
# 132
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Posted
Here's another vote for the Cathedral of the Incarnation. The choir is excellent, and I'm sure you could join. The congregation is very welcoming, and the liturgy is done well.
- Anne L.
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Life isn't all fricasseed frogs and eel pie.
Posts: 1496 | From: Washington, DC or thereabouts | Registered: May 2001
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
FCB - I suspect I will be peeking into at least a few RC churches while in Baltimore. Do you know which ones have good choirs?
I suppose a lot depends on what one means by "good choirs." St. Bernadine's has a rocking gospel choir, but that might not be your thing. Though it's been years since I've been at a Mass with their choir, I know St. Ignatius in Mt. Vernon uses students from Peabody Conservatory in their choir. Mt. Calvary, an Anglican Ordinariate church, has a newly restored organ and is reputed to have good music. It would probably be easier to give you a list of places to avoid.
A gospel choir at an RC church would be lovely to hear. I have also never been to an Ordinariate Mass and although the congregations that joined to Ordinariate largely did so over issues like homosexuality my Liturgical bug would still seriously want to check that out (a Mass with Anglican bits and the Roman Canon (and maybe some English language translations of parts of the Tridentine Rite) that is actually authorized by Canon Law? *Swoon*).
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
If anyone knows more about any of the Episcopal parishes I listed above or wants to suggest others, feel free.
Does anyone know what the worship is like at Grace and St. Peter's and at Advent? Does Grace and St. Peter's use the 1979 BCP like Advent does? Rite One or Two at their principal Sunday service? Are their vestments Gothic or Baroque? In terms of ceremonial (ie, choreography and props ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ), do they seem more 19th Century Roman or Sarum - or neither? Is their music mixed or strictly limited to Renaissance and Baroque Mass settings? Contrary to how I am making myself sound, I am actually quite flexible in terms of my churchmanship, but I like to understand what I am taking part in when I worship, and I really have never been to many "traditional" catholic services, RC or Episcopal or otherwise.
Also, do you know of any other threads on the site talking about churches (of any denomination) in Baltimore, or talking about any other issue in Baltimore (since I might be living there). Are there any Mystery Worshipper entries from Baltimore you would recommend?
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
Are there any Mystery Worshipper entries from Baltimore you would recommend?
It seems there have been only two Baltimore churches MW'd -- both Roman Catholic:
St. Benedict and St. Leo the Great.
You'll have to report on some of the churches you visit when you go there.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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maleveque
Shipmate
# 132
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Posted
My Daddy was rector of Church of the Advent in South Baltimore, but that was 55 years ago, so my information is a bit out of date. (he was fired for *not* being a segregationist)
- Anne L.
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Life isn't all fricasseed frogs and eel pie.
Posts: 1496 | From: Washington, DC or thereabouts | Registered: May 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
FCB, I'm delighted that St. Luke's is getting the attention from the Diocese that it deserves. A decade ago, when I was in Baltimore, the building was falling down around their ears. As I understand, it was the big Anglocatholic parish in town back in the day.
Church of the Advent was my parish, then. Fr. Christopher Keene pulled that parish out of the dustbin and revitalized it and the rectory. He and his partner were warmly welcomed and cherished by the small parish family. I opted to attend there over the bigger, richer, better-musically-supplied parishes, such as GASP or St. John's in the Village. Marge Hoffman, may she rest in peace, was the congregation's rock during that period. I knew her briefly and miss her fiercely. They all were most kind to me.
At least one member of these boards, the Ænglican, had been a member at Church of the Advent.
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
TSA, do you know much about the differences between Advent, Grace and St. Peter's, and St. John's in the Village, other than what has been mentioned above? For example, since St. John's seems to be "Sarum" and Grace and St. Peter's and Advent appear to be more "Roman" given the websites and pictures I have seen, how would you characterize the differences in liturgy and music between Grace and St. Peter's and Advent, other than that one church has more money than the other?
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
stonespring, you should just go and see for yourself.
Under Fr. Keene, Church of the Advent was Anglocatholic, but with a bare minimum of personnel, with a nicely appointed, well cared for, church building & rectory, characteristic of working-class south Baltimore. The people are a congenial mix of autochthonic and well-to-do wash-ashores.
The last time I was at GASP, it was also Anglocatholic, with slightly more personnel (always celebrant, deacon, subdeacon), with a touchingly retrograde Anglican Missal performance at the low masses. GASP is the more 'society' parish, located in the Mt. Vernon area, though decidedly down-at-the-heels, with a sprinkling of school superintendents and lawyers.
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the Ænglican
Shipmate
# 12496
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Posted
I'm no longer at Advent. (And, for the record, neither is Derek Olsen...)
In a nutshell, things went downhill after Fr. Keene left, and it hasn't recovered. There's a whole mess here I'm leaving completely unsaid. Suffice it to say, a point came when my girls refused to attend and I couldn't come up with any good arguments to disagree. We're at St. Bartholomew's in Ten Hills/Catonsville as they have one of the best youth program in the diocese and don't schedule it during Mass. (And a great music program.) The new priest at Advent now is solid and I hope he'll do good things there but can't say from experience.
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The subject of religious ceremonial is one which has a special faculty for stirring strong feeling. --W. H. Frere
Posts: 177 | From: Baltimore-ish | Registered: Apr 2007
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Does anyone know much about Old St. Paul's in the middle of Downtown? Or Emmanuel Episcopal Church? I know neither are particularly Anglo-Catholic but I was wondering what they were like if anyone knows about them.
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
Are you looking for a place to be spiritually fed or just trawling for gossip?
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Stonespring,
Asking for advice on churches you might be living near is one thing, but I'm not sure what purpose this quizzing is serving right now. As mentioned above, your best bet to find out about any or all of these places is probably to visit them!
On these grounds, and following some discussion backstage, Thread Closed.
dj_ordinaire, Eccles host
[ 27. March 2015, 19:53: Message edited by: dj_ordinaire ]
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Flinging wide the gates...
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