Thread: Shape Note Singing Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
MW 2774 makes much of the shape note singing - something of which I had no previous knowledge. My question is how "the shape note singing almost made up for lack of ceremony". Obviously this singing makes a difference to he choir in learning the music, but what other effect does it have please?
 
Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
What is shape note singing? I've never heard of it before.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
It's a way to help singers read music (or to enable them to sing in tune without needing to read music). Each note is placed on the stave in the normal way, but has its own distinctive shape. This gives you more info.

I suspect it is/was more associated with the US and music such as the "Sacred Harp": in Britain we went in for systems such as tonic sol-fa.
 
Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
This is a small sample. It's named after, and synonymous with, its notation, which is an adaptation of standard stave notation and some influence from plainchant, with each degree of the scale having its own shape to help with note recognition.

The music itself, though it is an American tradition, is strongly influenced by British folk music, particularly that of East Anglia. This is probably not a huge surprise because of the origins of the original settlers.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
MW 2774 makes much of the shape note singing - something of which I had no previous knowledge. My question is how "the shape note singing almost made up for lack of ceremony". Obviously this singing makes a difference to he choir in learning the music, but what other effect does it have please?
It is a helpful aid to a congregation of non-professional singers. Most likely the congregation would have been singing instead of a choir.
 
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
My question is how "the shape note singing almost made up for lack of ceremony".
The reporter found the music, and its execution by the congregation, highly inspiring. Whereas she would have preferred more ceremony in her worship service, she took great spiritual delight in the shape note singing.

Here is a good example. Note the raw, unschooled quality but the highly rich harmonic texture.

[ 12. November 2014, 12:26: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
 
Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :
 
I went to a sacred harp gathering.

First thing I noticed - more men that women! I am so used to any volunteer gathering of 4 part singing being mostly women, so this balance difference was startling.

I expressed puzzlement to a friend, why men here but not in community or church choral groups? She pointed out the tenors have the melody.

Bach decreed the two middle voices should move as little as possible, maybe that's why I, as an alto, consider Bach choral music boring. Maybe that's why tenors commonly don't bother to show up and sing in choruses. Give them interesting music, they eagerly come!

Anyway, apparently the sacred harp is not just about shape notes but about participation - not intended to be listened to by a congregation or audience but everyone sings, and it features male voices for more than just harmony.
 
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :
 
I don't think Bach decreed any such thing; the music theorists of the late 18th and early 19th centuries who codified what we now refer to as Common Practice may have, in an effort to keep voice leading smooth and the overall effect of the music pleasing.

Here, by the way, is an example of Bach's voice writing. The altos don't get any more of a break than the sopranos, tenors, or basses do.
 
Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Bach decreed the two middle voices should move as little as possible, maybe that's why I, as an alto, consider Bach choral music boring. Maybe that's why tenors commonly don't bother to show up and sing in choruses. Give them interesting music, they eagerly come!
The boring inner lines may sometimes be a result of following "rules" like no parallel fifths, fourths, or octaves, but I doubt Bach decreed anything about movement of the inner lines. He broke the parallelism rules sometimes, even. [Eek!] They mainly may be "rules" imposed by first-year university music-theory instructors for writing four-voice chorales the way Bach might, generally. Minus his genius, of course.
 
Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
I don't think Bach decreed any such thing; the music theorists of the late 18th and early 19th centuries who codified what we now refer to as Common Practice may have, in an effort to keep voice leading smooth and the overall effect of the music pleasing.

Here, by the way, is an example of Bach's voice writing. The altos don't get any more of a break than the sopranos, tenors, or basses do.
Thanks! My music teacher said it was Bach. Oh well.

The few Bach chorales I've sing Alto on were boring, but perhaps for different reasons.

I'm in a group doing a piece right now that breaks all the rules. Much more fun to sing than moving a step or two at a time! [Smile]

Anyway, sacred harp has more men than women and lots of tenors, something's different to attract that uncommon a mixture!
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
If you track down a Bill Moyers documentary called "Amazing Grace", you can see and hear some great shape-note singing.

The show is really good, tracing the roots of the hymn "Amazing Grace" and how it's affected people.
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
Thank you all for your comments. From my perspective, the most helpful has been Miss Amanda's: Note the raw, unschooled quality but the highly rich harmonic texture. The richness of texture was certainly apparent in the link given, even if the choir seemed to be trained.

As to the "boring" middle lines in Bach: apart from not accepting the comment (Bach wrote no boring notes) remember that the congregation would often join in the chorale sections, and may have found the soprano lines too challenging.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Thank you all for your comments. From my perspective, the most helpful has been Miss Amanda's: Note the raw, unschooled quality but the highly rich harmonic texture. The richness of texture was certainly apparent in the link given, even if the choir seemed to be trained.
Sorry but I think you seem to keep missing a key point. There wasn't a choir. The Churches of Christ don't have choirs. What that person heard was the congregation singing for each song.
 
Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
Sorry but I think you seem to keep missing a key point. There wasn't a choir. The Churches of Christ don't have choirs. What that person heard was the congregation singing for each song.
Yes, a key point of shape note singing culture is there is no audience. Everyone sings. If you walk into a shape note sing gathering as a newcomer, you'll see seats in square configuration, each section facing the center, you are asked which part you sing and seated in that section. There are no other seats, no watchers.

"Everyone sings" is part of the sound - it's not made to be listened to and appreciated for tonal quality, it's made to be participated in. Little kids with squeaky voices, old folks who lost their voice quality, smokers with raspy edges, all sing. Enthusiastically.

Because the sound has a non-professional edge to it, everyone feels welcome to sing, none of the "I'll just mouth the world so I don't ruin the sound" that I hear some say in other contexts.

shape note/sacred harp singing in UK
and in Oklahoma
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Thank you all for your comments. From my perspective, the most helpful has been Miss Amanda's: Note the raw, unschooled quality but the highly rich harmonic texture. The richness of texture was certainly apparent in the link given, even if the choir seemed to be trained.
Sorry but I think you seem to keep missing a key point. There wasn't a choir. The Churches of Christ don't have choirs. What that person heard was the congregation singing for each song.
Ummm.... My post referred to the choir in the link given by Thunderbunk, not in the MW service.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
My post referred to the choir in the link given by Thunderbunk, not in the MW service.
The link Thunderbunk gave is a bad example. They're giving a demonstration of shape-note singing, but it's not at all typical. (Also, you mention that they may be trained -- you don't generally get shape-note training, just practice, though these folks might happen to be trained singers as well.) That link shows a performance, and as has already been noted, shape note singing is not supposed to be performed. It's participatory.

Bass is sung by men and alto by women, and tenor and treble are sung by both, in different registers. So it's four parts but six voices, which adds to the richness. If any of the lines is going to be boring, it will be the alto line, and there are historical reasons for that, as well as musical ones.

Amanda's link is a good one. This gives another good idea of what it's like: "Sherburne" at Holly Springs in 1982, Alan Lomax Archive. Notice that they sing the shapes first -- before they sing the first verse, they go through the whole song singing the name of each note (fa, sol, la or mi). The idea that you can learn the tune that way if you don't already know it, or remember it if you do, and then you're ready to sing it with the words.

Here's another good example, and my current favorite shape-note song: Villulia. This is at a convention -- there are a lot of people here. But there are also lots of smaller gatherings; I've sung more in people's living rooms than anywhere else.

Something not mentioned yet here is the theology in the songs. Quite a few of them are about sin and death in this life and reward in the next. Not all are, but the theology is definitely along the lines of the fallenness of the world, dependence upon Jesus' grace and blood, and the dire result of not having faith.

If you want to learn more: fasola.org.

And if anyone in SoCal wants to go to a singing in the area --
listed here -- but feels shy about showing up alone, let me know and I'll go with you. I've been singing for about a year and I love it. I already have my plane ticket to go to the California state convention in Oakland in January, and I'm hoping to go to Camp Fasola and to the National Convention in Birmingham, Alabama next summer.
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
Thank you Ruth W. I was not (and really am still not) in a position to pass a judgment on any shape note singing - as the OP says, I had not come across it before the MW report. So it's all an education curve for me.
 
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :
 
I've never participated in Sacred Harp/ shape note singing, but have listened to it on youtube and read about it. I read somewhere that there are really only something like four shapes that get repeated to make the full scale. Is that true?

Anyway, I like how in several recordings, you hear everyone run through the tune on do, re, sol, fa, etc. before actually singing the words of the hymn. I'm afraid that run-through wouldn't be enough for me, though!

Such a beautiful tradition.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
Gee

Indeed you did. My apologies. That will teach me not to post at 4 A.M.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
I read somewhere that there are really only something like four shapes that get repeated to make the full scale. Is that true?
The more familiar shape-note system, which is the one used by Sacred Harp, uses four shapes (re and so share a shape, and mi and ti share a shape). But there is also a seven-shape system.
 
Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
I read somewhere that there are really only something like four shapes that get repeated to make the full scale. Is that true?
The more familiar shape-note system, which is the one used by Sacred Harp, uses four shapes (re and so share a shape, and mi and ti share a shape). But there is also a seven-shape system.
This page has a graphic of the typical 4 shapes. The 7 note familiar scale is fa so la fa so la mi. So in C major fa is C and then F. fa so la = C D E, then fa so la = F G A then mi = B and back to fa.

From what I have read, the fa so la system existed without written notes as a way for groups in instrument-less frontier communities to learn to sing. Then the notes were written down in shapes, later the shapes were put on the staff.

I have met music teachers who think teaching beginners do re me with hand signals for each note is the best way.

As to singing the tune without it's words first, fa so la might trip me up but I often revert to la la la when initially learning a tune,so the concept is familiar. Watching shapes during a tune, I expect "triangle is fa" etc would be picked up fast and become automatic response to the note shapes in minutes.
 
Posted by Circuit Rider (# 13088) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I went to a sacred harp gathering.

First thing I noticed - more men that women! I am so used to any volunteer gathering of 4 part singing being mostly women, so this balance difference was startling. ...
I've been to sacred harp singings many times. In fact, a church where I was pastor once hosted a sacred harp singing every year.

There are a lot of men who participate. One reason may be that the melody is sung by tenors, not sopranos. It is easier to reach by the male voice than a soprano-based melody. In my experience as a pastor, if men have difficulty singing the notes they won't sing.

When sections are organized in sacred harp, the largest section is the tenor section or main part of the auditorium. To the left of them are the bass singers, opposite the tenors (usually platform area) are the sopranos, and altos sit opposite the bass singers and to the right of the tenors. All face the center and form a square. One hears the full impact of the parts when leading in the middle of the square.

A song is pitched by ear, usually by a tenor and beginning with the tenor line, followed by bass, soprano, and alto. Everyone sings the line first singing the names of the notes (fa-sol-la-ti) to get the tune fixed, then they sing the lyrics. Sacred harp is almost always sung a cappela. The term sacred harp refers to the human voice, sacred because God gave it to us.

I believe it is the oldest form of singing hymns and I have seen early Methodist hymnals with music similar to sacred harp. It came to America in colonial days with the congregationalists, I believe, and was practiced mostly in New England. For some reason, as it died away, it was preserved in the South.

[ 14. November 2014, 15:27: Message edited by: Circuit Rider ]
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Circuit Rider:
I believe it is the oldest form of singing hymns . . . .
Older than Gregorian chant, German chorals or metrical psalms (just to name a few forms of hymns)?
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Circuit Rider:
When sections are organized in sacred harp, the largest section is the tenor section or main part of the auditorium. To the left of them are the bass singers, opposite the tenors (usually platform area) are the sopranos, and altos sit opposite the bass singers and to the right of the tenors. All face the center and form a square. One hears the full impact of the parts when leading in the middle of the square.
Are we doing it wrong out here in California? Trebles sit to the right of the tenors, and altos opposite the tenors. The leader mostly faces the tenors, so altos are looking at the leader's back. But enough people will beat time along with the leader for us to follow, and some leaders are so expressive you don't need to see them from the front to follow them.

The first time I went to a singing, I was invited -- well, urged! -- to stand up with the leader for one song and just listen. It was an amazing experience, and I've been hooked ever since. A good singing nourishes my faith more than church these days.
 
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Circuit Rider:
I believe it is the oldest form of singing hymns . . . .
Older than Gregorian chant, German chorals or metrical psalms (just to name a few forms of hymns)?
If we accept the traditional image of King David then yes, much older!

[ 15. November 2014, 00:53: Message edited by: dj_ordinaire ]
 
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
I went to a shape note singing. A friend of mine was into it, and I brought along a composer and a southern friend. The music does have a raw power and the songs are often about a life familiar with death and dying.

If I recall correctly, one of the traditions is that singers can sing an octave lower if the tune goes out of their range. It may obscure the melody but ensures people are singing in a powerful part of their range.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Tenors and trebles sing in whatever octave feels most comfortable for them. Men who sing treble sing an octave below the women, and women who sing tenor sing either with the men or an octave higher.

[ 15. November 2014, 02:54: Message edited by: RuthW ]
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
What about basses and altos?
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
The more familiar shape-note system, which is the one used by Sacred Harp, uses four shapes (re and so share a shape, and mi and ti share a shape). But there is also a seven-shape system.
Now there's another difference for us on this Board to get excited about. Which is the right way and which is the one that belongs in outer darkness among the wailing and gnashing of teeth? How soon would it be before it generated a hell call?
 
Posted by Mockingbird (# 5818) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
The music itself, though it is an American tradition, is strongly influenced by British folk music, particularly that of East Anglia. This is probably not a huge surprise because of the origins of the original settlers.
The shape-note tradition derives from the work of the New England singing-masters. Their work, in turn, derives from the work of the early 18th-century country singing-masters of England. Identifying the origins of this music with "folk music" would require an answer to the Dead-Horses-eligible question "what is folk music?" I am also uncertain how "particularly" this music can be associated with East Anglia. Tans'ur seems to have worked in East Anglia, but Chetham's book is associated with the West Riding. William Knapp's 1741 book was
quote:
sold at Sherborne, Taunton, Salisbury, Exeter, Reading, and London
Thomas Moore had his 1750 book published in Manchester. The advertisement stated
quote:
The author...will be ready to teath [psalmody] in any place where he may have proper encouragement...
My source for these statements is Nicholas Temperley's useful and interesting book The Music of the English Parish Church, Cambridge, 1979.

A documentary film, Awake my Soul, discusses the origins of the Southern shape-note tradition, concentrating in particular on the Sacred Harp.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Circuit Rider:
I believe it is the oldest form of singing hymns . . . .
Older than Gregorian chant, German chorals or metrical psalms (just to name a few forms of hymns)?
If we accept the traditional image of King David then yes, much older!
David was a shape-note singer? Perhaps I misunderstood Circuit Rider, but I understood him to be saying that shape-note singing is the oldest form of singing hymns, especially given his reference to early Methodist hymnals.

Certainly, it has roots and parallels in earlier forms, but shape-notation as we know it dates only from the late 18th or early 19th Century, though it has roots in earlier American hymnals and psalters.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
What about basses and altos?
Unlike the treble and tenor lines, the bass and alto lines aren't doubled in a different octave; they're sung by people whose voices fall naturally in the bass and alto ranges. I don't think it would help the sound much to double the bass and alto parts, because of the way they're written as foundational and inner lines, respectively.

So people who are naturally tenors and sopranos can easily, if they wish, move back and forth between the tenor and treble sections. My boyfriend likes to sit on the end of a row in the tenor section so he can easily move over to the trebles. Basses and altos tend to stay put, though I've seen men move over to the bass section for the last session of an all-day singing because they've blown out their voices. There are women with big ranges who can move between tenor, treble and alto, but I plant myself in the middle of the second row of altos and don't budge.
 
Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :
 
Question to those of you who know shape note singing.

This pdf contains a number of songs, most with only 3 staffs. No altos? Or do altos dup the bases an octave up?
 
Posted by Quam Dilecta (# 12541) on :
 
I have never tried to to count which writer contributed the most texts to theSacred Harp songbook, but Isaac Watts and Charles Wesley would rank high on any survey. Perhaps because Anglicans and Presbyterians were long reluctant to allow the use of texts from sources other than the Psalter, shape-note singing flourished in Methodist and Baptist congregations.
 
Posted by Circuit Rider (# 13088) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Circuit Rider:
I believe it is the oldest form of singing hymns . . . .
Older than Gregorian chant, German chorals or metrical psalms (just to name a few forms of hymns)?
If we accept the traditional image of King David then yes, much older!
David was a shape-note singer? Perhaps I misunderstood Circuit Rider, but I understood him to be saying that shape-note singing is the oldest form of singing hymns, especially given his reference to early Methodist hymnals.

Certainly, it has roots and parallels in earlier forms, but shape-notation as we know it dates only from the late 18th or early 19th Century, though it has roots in earlier American hymnals and psalters.
Sorry to have been unclear. I should have left that line off.
 
Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
If we accept the traditional image of King David...
Tangential question - What scale did David probably play? Pentatonic?
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Hymn singing far pre-dates the 18th Century. Just look at the dates for compositions of some of the hymns. Look at the great hymns of Orthodoxy. Then if you maintain that meter is important Luthers hymn "Ein Feste de Berg" predates the metrical psalms of Strasbourg and Geneva. Even if we restrict it to English hymns then George Wither published Hymnes and Songs for the Church in 1623 (source J.R Watson: The English Hymn).

At best it can be said that Shape Note Singing retains elements of an early American tradition of hymn singing.

Jengie
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
Thought of this thread in church this morning, as the last hymn was to the Sacred Harp tune Beach Spring. Newer lyrics, though, and we didn't sing it shape-note style.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
I may be able to answer some of the dilemmas that have been aired on this thread.

The first is that the Shape Note tradition is indigenous to the USA and exclusive to it. It developed after the break with Britain. There is nothing directly corresponding to it on this side of the Atlantic. It has nothing to do with Norfolk.

The second, is that in the comparable period, the English normally preferred if they could get them, to sing accompanied by instruments. Some of the tunes were plain hymn tunes and others rather florid. The latter tradition largely died out in the C19 under the influence of the Oxford Movement which musically the non-conformists churches followed. It has recently been revived.

Third, the Scots have a tradition of singing unaccompanied. Two versions of this survive, one in Gaelic and the other among some of the free churches in Scotland, which are both very different from each other and both unlike the Shape Note style.

Third, many of the tunes are found on both sides of the Atlantic. There are tunes that have migrated in both directions. However in each tradition they are sung according to their own tradition.

Fourth, the history of what words one sung followed a different course. In the CofE until the early C19 one could only sing psalms. These were sung in metre. Chanting prose psalms didn't really come in until the Oxford Movement. Non-conformists sang hymns earlier. Scotland made this change later. Some free churches in Scotland still haven't entirely made it. However, as the metres are the same, the same tunes could be used for both. A lot of the tunes we still use today were originally used for psalms.

Fifth, there was no assumption in the past that individual sets of words and a tune were tied to each other. What mattered was what metre the words were written for. They could then be sung to any suitable tune in that metre. It might well be the singing leader's job to choose a suitable tune for the occasion.

Sixth, adding the alto line seems to have been a gradual thing. It may even depend on how many voices one can draw on. However, some three part versions of tunes are better thought of as polyphony, three interweaving melodies, than as a tune with three harmonies added to it.

Finally, in some old tunebooks, the melody the congregation would have sung was led by the tenor line, with the top line being a sort of descant for singing boys or counter.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Sixth, adding the alto line seems to have been a gradual thing. It may even depend on how many voices one can draw on. However, some three part versions of tunes are better thought of as polyphony, three interweaving melodies, than as a tune with three harmonies added to it.
Many of the oldest songs in the tradition originally only had three parts, and in 19th-century editions of some songbooks, the alto parts were removed from songs that had had four parts, so three-part singing predominated in most of the 19th century. (The White & King book in Belle Ringer's link was originally published in 1844.) But there were always some four-part songs -- William Billings wrote in four parts, and his are some of the earliest songs that found their way into the tradition; he published New England Psalm Singer in 1770. Four-part songs predominate in various Sacred Harp songbooks starting in the early 20th century, when alto lines were restored or written fresh for many songs.

The hollow square formation of course presumes four parts, but sacred harp singing hasn't always been done that way. The earliest depiction of sacred harp singing is in Billings' 1770 book:
Paul Revere's engraving.
 
Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I may be able to answer some of the dilemmas that have been aired on this thread.

The first is that the Shape Note tradition is indigenous to the USA and exclusive to it. It developed after the break with Britain. There is nothing directly corresponding to it on this side of the Atlantic. It has nothing to do with Norfolk.

This is true; however Shape Note singing has crossed back over the Pond in recent years and established a small, but enthusiastic following here in the UK.

About a year ago, ken and I went to a few of the Central London monthly sessions aimed at beginners (info here).

It was an amazing experience. I've done quite a bit of singing over the years, but for ken I think this was the first time in his life that he felt his contribution towards the sound was good enough (he'd always had "issues" with singing due to his severe asthma). So it was a real blessing to be able to do this with him in the last few months before he became really ill.
 
Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
I was not just guessing. I was talking from half remembered experience of singing tunes in the sacred harp tradition immediately with folk songs mostly from Essex. This was about 15 years ago but I don't think I am imagining it.
 
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
If we accept the traditional image of King David...
Tangential question - What scale did David probably play? Pentatonic?
It's most commonly thought that the scales used in that period were similar to the modal systems used in Catholic, Byzantine & Armenian chant.
 


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