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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: John the Baptist and the Advent wreath
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Daffodil
Apprentice
# 13164
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Posted
The reading for tomorrow is Mark 1:1-8 John the baptist in the desert Biblegateway
Yet the official prayers for the lighting of the Advent Wreath Church of England Advent Prayers focus on the prophets this week and John the Baptist next week!
I will just use the prayer for this week.
Any idea how this mismatch came about and how anyone else facing this dilemma would solve it?
Posts: 19 | Registered: Nov 2007
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
The gospel for next week also refers to John the Baptist. My advice (and practice) is to preach on the prophets this week, focussing principally on the reading from the Hebrew scriptures. At most I'd nod in John's direction as an example of a prophet and then actually preach on him next week.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
That's mainly what I'm doing, too. I normally preach primarily from the Gospel text, but this season I'm primarily preaching from the Isaiah readings. Thus my emphasis on the prophets this week.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
John the Baptist, as well as being the Forerunner and John the Baptist, is also the last of the prophets.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Or, you could kick to the curb the entire ridiculous ceremonial surrounding lighting the dratted Advent wreath, letting the servers light the thing before the service begins.
In this era when liturgical moderns have stripped our liturgies back to accord with their restorationist sensibilities, how has this foolish thing survived their reforming swath?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Daffodil
Apprentice
# 13164
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Posted
The Silent Accolyte quote:
Or, you could kick to the curb the entire ridiculous ceremonial surrounding lighting the dratted Advent wreath, letting the servers light the thing before the service begins.
In this era when liturgical moderns have stripped our liturgies back to accord with their restorationist sensibilities, how has this foolish thing survived their reforming swath?
I blame Blue Peter's Advent Crown ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
We are a small informal, but Anglican, modern daughter church - servers? We do not even have any coloured altar fronts etc., choir stalls... We do have mics, drums and a computer screen ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
I forgot to mention that it is Worship for All, so I am sticking with the gospel reading, and mentioning as Enoch pointed out that John is the last of the prophets.
I was just really surprised that they put this reading this week not next, and wondered why...
Posts: 19 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Daffodil:
I forgot to mention that it is Worship for All
What other sort of worship is there? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Or, you could kick to the curb the entire ridiculous ceremonial surrounding lighting the dratted Advent wreath, letting the servers light the thing before the service begins.
Why have it at all? If it were up to me, we wouldn't even have one.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The Advent Wreath prayers are optional C of E suggestions that don't necessarily have to be used in connection with the Eucharist or service with the RCL and are not planned as such.
The first week's wreath theme is the patriarchs, as I remember, and not the Second Coming as in the RCL.
The RCL has John the Baptist for weeks 2 and 3. and there is no point in having him represented by two candles.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The CofE readings for Advent this year are an absolute dog's breakfast; they've ended up with the Annunciation on the 4th Sunday which, being the 21st, means the shortest pregnancy on record.
Our PP is so offended he said next year we may revert to the old BCP readings and have done with it...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The CofE readings for Advent this year are an absolute dog's breakfast; they've ended up with the Annunciation on the 4th Sunday which, being the 21st, means the shortest pregnancy on record.
But the reading aren't supposed to represent "real time". If they did, we'd have to wait about 2 years for Epiphany and 30 years for Easter.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The CofE readings for Advent this year are an absolute dog's breakfast; they've ended up with the Annunciation on the 4th Sunday which, being the 21st, means the shortest pregnancy on record. ...
That's because the sequence for the four Sundays goes patriarchs, prophets, John the Baptist, Mary, with the fifth candle in the middle being Jesus Light of the World, lit at midnight on Christmas Eve. So the Annunciation is quite logical, even if you don't agree with it, and think it can only be mentioned on 25th March.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
That's mainly what I'm doing, too. I normally preach primarily from the Gospel text, but this season I'm primarily preaching from the Isaiah readings. Thus my emphasis on the prophets this week.
I think JBap's going to get a little short-changed by me this year. This week I focused on the Isaiah reading, and I think next week I'll focus on the Philippians reading (given that it's what the Sunday is named for, afterall!).
In the Roman Lectionary, the Advent Sundays sort of work backwards chronologically. The First Sunday concentrates on our preparation for Christ's second coming; the second and third on John the Baptist's preparation for his earthly ministry; the fourth on preparation for his birth.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Oops. Just realized that we only get Phil in Year C. Might have to rethink next week...
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Magersfontein Lugg
Shipmate
# 18240
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Posted
We do the Advent wreath business over coffee time afterwards in the hall, seems much better - and its more informal that way.
Posts: 104 | From: Bottle Street | Registered: Oct 2014
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
Multiple mistletoe bouquets could be lowered from the ceiling, at Passing-The-Peace time. Now that would be jolly!
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
Posts: 3622 | From: The Keystone State | Registered: May 2006
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
We usually employ a willing volunteer to light the relevant Advent Candle just after the greeting at Mass, but on both Sundays so far the bl**dy things have been a real pain to ignite (yer usual High Church technical problems - Low Church have the Powerpoint screen falling down or whatever.....).
I quite like the brief informality of the moment (with the suitable accompanying prayer) - it seems to add an extra highlight to the Advent season.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
On both Sundays so far the bl**dy things have been a real pain to ignite (yer usual High Church technical problems.
Nonconformists have problems too! The first Sunday a late-comer opened the church door just as the candle was being lit, and it blew out. Yesterday the taper refused to stay alight.
And that's after we've been clever and pre-lit the wicks to burn them off!
Our organ's blower doesn't help, very draughty at the front of the church (and around the preacher's feet!)
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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