Ship of Fools: John the Baptist and the Advent wreath

Thread: John the Baptist and the Advent wreath Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Daffodil (# 13164) on :

The reading for tomorrow is Mark 1:1-8 John the baptist in the desert Biblegateway
Yet the official prayers for the lighting of the Advent Wreath Church of England Advent Prayers focus on the prophets this week and John the Baptist next week!
I will just use the prayer for this week.
Any idea how this mismatch came about and how anyone else facing this dilemma would solve it?

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

The gospel for next week also refers to John the Baptist. My advice (and practice) is to preach on the prophets this week, focussing principally on the reading from the Hebrew scriptures. At most I'd nod in John's direction as an example of a prophet and then actually preach on him next week.

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

That's mainly what I'm doing, too. I normally preach primarily from the Gospel text, but this season I'm primarily preaching from the Isaiah readings. Thus my emphasis on the prophets this week.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

John the Baptist, as well as being the Forerunner and John the Baptist, is also the last of the prophets.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

Or, you could kick to the curb the entire ridiculous ceremonial surrounding lighting the dratted Advent wreath, letting the servers light the thing before the service begins.

In this era when liturgical moderns have stripped our liturgies back to accord with their restorationist sensibilities, how has this foolish thing survived their reforming swath?

Posted by Daffodil (# 13164) on :

The Silent Accolyte

quote:
Or, you could kick to the curb the entire ridiculous ceremonial surrounding lighting the dratted Advent wreath, letting the servers light the thing before the service begins.

In this era when liturgical moderns have stripped our liturgies back to accord with their restorationist sensibilities, how has this foolish thing survived their reforming swath?

I blame Blue Peter's Advent Crown [Snigger]

We are a small informal, but Anglican, modern daughter church - servers? We do not even have any coloured altar fronts etc., choir stalls... We do have mics, drums and a computer screen [Devil]

I forgot to mention that it is Worship for All, so I am sticking with the gospel reading, and mentioning as Enoch pointed out that John is the last of the prophets.

I was just really surprised that they put this reading this week not next, and wondered why...

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Daffodil:
I forgot to mention that it is Worship for All

What other sort of worship is there? [Confused]

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Or, you could kick to the curb the entire ridiculous ceremonial surrounding lighting the dratted Advent wreath, letting the servers light the thing before the service begins.

Why have it at all? If it were up to me, we wouldn't even have one.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

The Advent Wreath prayers are optional C of E suggestions that don't necessarily have to be used in connection with the Eucharist or service with the RCL and are not planned as such.

The first week's wreath theme is the patriarchs, as I remember, and not the Second Coming as in the RCL.

The RCL has John the Baptist for weeks 2 and 3. and there is no point in having him represented by two candles.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

The CofE readings for Advent this year are an absolute dog's breakfast; they've ended up with the Annunciation on the 4th Sunday which, being the 21st, means the shortest pregnancy on record.

Our PP is so offended he said next year we may revert to the old BCP readings and have done with it...

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The CofE readings for Advent this year are an absolute dog's breakfast; they've ended up with the Annunciation on the 4th Sunday which, being the 21st, means the shortest pregnancy on record.

But the reading aren't supposed to represent "real time". If they did, we'd have to wait about 2 years for Epiphany and 30 years for Easter.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The CofE readings for Advent this year are an absolute dog's breakfast; they've ended up with the Annunciation on the 4th Sunday which, being the 21st, means the shortest pregnancy on record. ...

That's because the sequence for the four Sundays goes patriarchs, prophets, John the Baptist, Mary, with the fifth candle in the middle being Jesus Light of the World, lit at midnight on Christmas Eve. So the Annunciation is quite logical, even if you don't agree with it, and think it can only be mentioned on 25th March.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
That's mainly what I'm doing, too. I normally preach primarily from the Gospel text, but this season I'm primarily preaching from the Isaiah readings. Thus my emphasis on the prophets this week.

I think JBap's going to get a little short-changed by me this year. This week I focused on the Isaiah reading, and I think next week I'll focus on the Philippians reading (given that it's what the Sunday is named for, afterall!).

In the Roman Lectionary, the Advent Sundays sort of work backwards chronologically. The First Sunday concentrates on our preparation for Christ's second coming; the second and third on John the Baptist's preparation for his earthly ministry; the fourth on preparation for his birth.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Oops. Just realized that we only get Phil in Year C. Might have to rethink next week...

Posted by Magersfontein Lugg (# 18240) on :

We do the Advent wreath business over coffee time afterwards in the hall, seems much better - and its more informal that way.

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

Multiple mistletoe bouquets could be lowered from the ceiling, at Passing-The-Peace time. Now that would be jolly!

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

We usually employ a willing volunteer to light the relevant Advent Candle just after the greeting at Mass, but on both Sundays so far the bl**dy things have been a real pain to ignite (yer usual High Church technical problems - Low Church have the Powerpoint screen falling down or whatever.....).

I quite like the brief informality of the moment (with the suitable accompanying prayer) - it seems to add an extra highlight to the Advent season.

Ian J.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
On both Sundays so far the bl**dy things have been a real pain to ignite (yer usual High Church technical problems.

Nonconformists have problems too! The first Sunday a late-comer opened the church door just as the candle was being lit, and it blew out. Yesterday the taper refused to stay alight.

And that's after we've been clever and pre-lit the wicks to burn them off!

Our organ's blower doesn't help, very draughty at the front of the church (and around the preacher's feet!)

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